Decade golf app - my 6 month journey

[THEZIPR23]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm not so sure this is right, the old idea of laying up to a comfortable yardage certainly isn't supported in any system informed by Strokes Gained concepts.

When you decide that the percentage shot is hitting less than a full driver, the best strategy is to make a full swing with a 3-wood or long iron

My motto is: Pick a conservative target, then make an aggressive swing to it.

 

Nicklaus Quotes above.

Scott based DECADE on a lot of what Tiger did. You could say that I misspoke and it is only the great players who played this way. 

 

 

[DriverBreaker]

23 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

BTW, if you follow him on social media you'll know Scott (and Lou Stagner to a lesser degree) got into a pretty intense back and forth on Twitter with Colt Knost and Graham DeLeat, the outcome of that being a wager between Scott and Colt to play in June at Dallas National.  

The argument was basically Colt saying you had to have a good angle from the right side of the fairway on a certain hole at Harbor Town, and Scott and Lou arguing not to play for angles because often the risk in chasing the angle isn't worth it.  As usual on social media, a lot of people talking past each other, but interesting to follow nevertheless.

Very interesting back and forth.  They did seem to come to a place where Scott is going to be a guest on Colt's podcast.  Should be interesting.  Gets to the challenges of the written back and forth and trouble interpreting tone, intention, etc. 

[myherobobhope]

Anyone catch this? or know where it can be heard? I'm interested.

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:58 PM, Getoffmylawn said:

Alright, going to post a hole here and get everyone's thoughts.  I have a feeling Scott Fawcett gets inundated with "what about hole X at my home course" from everybody and their brother, and I really don't want to do that...he gave me a crazy good discount on a year of Foundations, so I'm not about to get greedy and ask for one-on-one treatment.  Fortunately for me, I have MGS!

This is #13 at Willow Lakes Golf Course, a Robert Trent Jones Sr design (the only RTJ military course in fact).  It's Offutt AFB's course, but outside of the base fence line open to public play.

Anyway, it's a par 5, 549 yards.  Forgive me for the crude lines on this image, but I wanted to pick your brains as soon as I could since I'm back out here this Thursday...I'll get my Google Earth Pro skills down later.  The blue line, essentially the widest point of the fairway between the water hazard right and cart path left, is 54 yards.  The red line, the end of the water, is 34 yards.  It's anywhere from a 280-300 yard drive to get past the water depending on where they set up the tees.

So here's my problem:  I typically play a cut off the tee, and you all know how Scott preaches one shot shape.  3 wood doesn't eliminate the hazard, so that's out.  In fact that water is still in play with 3 hybrid, so to truly eliminate the hazard I'm taking 4 iron off the tee on a par 5...no thanks, that's giving up a ton of distance and starts to bring bogey on a par 5 into play, another DECADE no-no.  To add to the fun, the wind is very often a left to right wind.

As you might expect, this whole is feast or famine.  I basically take driver and aim at the trees and cart path area left and trust it to cut, and when it works par is not hard, birdie a possibility.  However, overcut it just a bit and there's just not a lot of room for error...if it doesn't cut I'm chipping out sideways.

Any thoughts?

Replying to my own post for the sake of referencing back to this conversation, here are some pics of the hole.

First, looking down the fairway when walking up the hole...

 

And now here are some pics of how that area left behind that larger tree would look.  The first pick would be a shorter and "less left" tee shot, the second longer and more left.  I'd say about 240-250 and 270-280 respectively.

 

After considering input from @cnosil and others, this left miss isn't as terrible as maybe I've considered it in the past.  There's still room to come out at about a 45 degree angle to get it back in play and advance it, perhaps more if I get aggressive and put some hook on a longer club.

That said, I played this hole decidedly un-DECADEy yesterday.  Rule number one is commit to the shot right?  Instead, I stood on the tee determined not to hit it in the right water, and probably cheated my grip a bit too.  The result was a smother hook into the left hazard, because I was setup for a cut with a line on this tree.  To make matters worse I flubbed a chip and ended up taking a double, on a par 5.  I was very very frustrated with myself for the mental error off the tee.

On the bright side, I didn't sulk and birdied the next hole.  All in all the round could have been better; quite a few times I took bad lines off the tee and paid for it.  Overall, a 79...not thrilled but trending in the right direction from the form I started the year with. 

[ejgaudette]

16 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Replying to my own post for the sake of referencing back to this conversation, here are some pics of the hole.

First, looking down the fairway when walking up the hole...

 

And now here are some pics of how that area left behind that larger tree would look.  The first pick would be a shorter and "less left" tee shot, the second longer and more left.  I'd say about 240-250 and 270-280 respectively.

 

After considering input from @cnosil and others, this left miss isn't as terrible as maybe I've considered it in the past.  There's still room to come out at about a 45 degree angle to get it back in play and advance it, perhaps more if I get aggressive and put some hook on a longer club.

That said, I played this hole decidedly un-DECADEy yesterday.  Rule number one is commit to the shot right?  Instead, I stood on the tee determined not to hit it in the right water, and probably cheated my grip a bit too.  The result was a smother hook into the left hazard, because I was setup for a cut with a line on this tree.  To make matters worse I flubbed a chip and ended up taking a double, on a par 5.  I was very very frustrated with myself for the mental error off the tee.

On the bright side, I didn't sulk and birdied the next hole.  All in all the round could have been better; quite a few times I took bad lines off the tee and paid for it.  Overall, a 79...not thrilled but trending in the right direction from the form I started the year with. 

Great recovery with the birdie always feels good to get one back after a bad hole. 

[cnosil]

On 4/28/2021 at 5:35 PM, myherobobhope said:

Anyone catch this? or know where it can be heard? I'm interested.

It was is going to be in Sirius/XM radio.  I am not a subscriber so I don’t know if you can listen to past shows.  

[analyticandrew]

Well, I'm back on the wagon with Scott and DECADE! Sold some clubs, ended up getting the year subscription. I re-watched a few of the foundations videos and have started through the others. I also printed up my first yardage book, and I'm super pumped for this season.

I'll be playing in multiple tournaments this year, and I know that this will make things better for me. Even so far this season, I've been shooting right around 79-82 depending on the course that I play, and last Friday, using a few of the DECADE thoughts back in my brain, I ended up with a 77. So already paying off again!  

[ejgaudette]

9 minutes ago, analyticandrew said:

Well, I'm back on the wagon with Scott and DECADE! Sold some clubs, ended up getting the year subscription. I re-watched a few of the foundations videos and have started through the others. I also printed up my first yardage book, and I'm super pumped for this season.

I'll be playing in multiple tournaments this year, and I know that this will make things better for me. Even so far this season, I've been shooting right around 79-82 depending on the course that I play, and last Friday, using a few of the DECADE thoughts back in my brain, I ended up with a 77. So already paying off again!  

Sounds great and be sure to let us know how those tournaments go for you.

[myherobobhope]

I need to just pay for the subscription... just haven't pulled the trigger! I'm really interested in the more indepth stuff and think it will help me better commit to shots.

[analyticandrew]

I have a great dialogue going with a dear friend and colleague of mine. He is 100% a "feel" player. From him, he says that his "swing is... piecemeal. what what i've found is i can't 'hit a number' even with my wedges per se. if someone said 'hit this 52 yards' i can't get my body to do that - but if i see that something is '52 yards away' by looking at it, then i'll just swing and feel that i hope i hit it 52 yards"

I'm not trying to convert him to DECADE, it's just a great conversation because we're both 5-6 handicappers, we both have SUCH different approaches to the game, and we both love playing together, we love the same kinds of golf course architects, etc... 

Going back to my round last Friday, just to give you all information that none of you asked for... As I've looked at the DECADE yardage book I downloaded after the fact (because I'll play this course 10 times this year probably), what I also like (that i’ve never REALLY payed much attention to) is that i also can see how deep and wide the greens are and I can put those into how I approach things. Generally, I just shoot with my rangefinder the distance to the pin, which is FINE but… I was replaying my round from Friday in my head and there are a number of holes that had I paid attention to where the pin was, and then saw how much room there was short or long or left or right, relative to any trouble… then I would have thought about it differently.

Hole number 18 is a GREAT example of this. This is a double dogleg, 545 yard par 5 that was into the teeth of a 25 MPH that was coming from about 9:30-10 o'clock off the tee. Was playing at least 600 with all of the wind. In the screenshot below, the blue dots are my shots on the hole, and the green dot is where the pin was placed. I also added some arrows to show where the green slopes. 

I was in the trees off the tee thanks to a pull that the wind grabbed, sending it further left and knocked it down, so I had to take my medicine to get out of the trees. Then, because the wind was so fierce, I needed to lay up with my third shot. In hindsight, I still should have gone for it out to the right ESPECIALLY had I known where the pin was. But alas I couldn't see the pin relative to the green from where I was standing on my second shot.

So after taking my medicine, then laying up, for my fourth shot, even though I was only ~82 yards out, I wasn’t paying attention to how much room i had behind the pin and also exactly how close the pin was to the edge of the green. What I should have done, based on DECADE, was aim at the red line at the CLOSEST. Which is about what I did. HOWEVER I also pulled the shot, again the wind grabbed it, and I short sided myself in a major way, leading to a double bogey to end the round.

But, if I had looked at how much room I had behind the hole (which was at least 8-10 yards), I would have saved myself at least a stroke. Also, with the wind more from around 11 o'clock at this angle, I should have been able to recognize that somewhere between the red line and the blue line should have been my target. 

And who knows, maybe a miracle happens and i make a winding 30 footer for par - instead, I walk away with a double.

 

 

[BMart519]

19 hours ago, analyticandrew said:

So after taking my medicine, then laying up, for my fourth shot, even though I was only ~82 yards out, I wasn’t paying attention to how much room i had behind the pin and also exactly how close the pin was to the edge of the green. What I should have done, based on DECADE, was aim at the red line at the CLOSEST. Which is about what I did. HOWEVER I also pulled the shot, again the wind grabbed it, and I short sided myself in a major way, leading to a double bogey to end the round.

 

Did the red line include a modifier for the wind or was that the base Decade target? I'm only on month 2 and haven't seen all the course map details, what are all the small red squares for around the green? 

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Did the red line include a modifier for the wind or was that the base Decade target? I'm only on month 2 and haven't seen all the course map details, what are all the small red squares for around the green? 

Judging by his description/yardage I think the red is the baseline.  I don’t have one of his yardage books handy to explain the red square but I they are probably areas that should be assessed as a modifier.    
 

in my opinion; Based on the modifiers, the blue line is the target, but it should be at the same depth as the red line.  No real reason to play farther back. 

[analyticandrew]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Judging by his description/yardage I think the red is the baseline.  I don’t have one of his yardage books handy to explain the red square but I they are probably areas that should be assessed as a modifier.    
 

in my opinion; Based on the modifiers, the blue line is the target, but it should be at the same depth as the red line.  No real reason to play farther back. 

Red line = DECADE baseline. Blue line is modified both left to right and back to front to account for the wind that was in my face/from the left. What I would have done in this instance is use the blue line for my target, but w/ the wind, I would have played it closer to 87 yards than the 82. That was my rationale in the difference in the blue vs red line. 

[analyticandrew]

15 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Did the red line include a modifier for the wind or was that the base Decade target? I'm only on month 2 and haven't seen all the course map details, what are all the small red squares for around the green? 

See above for first part reply, but for the red boxes, this is where you can put in what you estimate it would take to get down from that spot. Just like the 2.44 is in the bunker on the left. In most cases from the other boxes, I would put 0 b/c there's no "penalty" for be being there. Maybe I would put a .5 in that top right box given that I know the rough back there is deep, and the green slopes away and it would be very difficult to get anything close. 

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, analyticandrew said:

Red line = DECADE baseline. Blue line is modified both left to right and back to front to account for the wind that was in my face/from the left. What I would have done in this instance is use the blue line for my target, but w/ the wind, I would have played it closer to 87 yards than the 82. That was my rationale in the difference in the blue vs red line. 

We have to make our own decisions,  but I still don’t think your adjustment would have moved you back that far as you target was still the right distance from the front of the green.  

[myherobobhope]

6.8 Handicap... just paid the $99 for 6 months of access... I'm excited to better track stats and have some better course management...

I was hesitant to sign up as my game isn't "fully online" from a back injury last year... but now is the time for now. 

I'm excited to see how it goes.

[GolfSpy AFG]

1 hour ago, myherobobhope said:

6.8 Handicap... just paid the $99 for 6 months of access... I'm excited to better track stats and have some better course management...

I was hesitant to sign up as my game isn't "fully online" from a back injury last year... but now is the time for now. 

I'm excited to see how it goes.

I think this is the best investment you could have made then, especially if you're limited in your ability to make mechanical improvements.  If you're like me you're not content to simply play and not get better...better course management and a better mental perspective should absolutely help you do that.  I'm already seeing dividends after a month of membership.

[BMart519]

The putting speed drill is so hard, first try last night as the putting green was empty after playing a late 9... Probably not a good sign that I was better around 20-30' than up to 10' in the smaller window. 

I guess Exputt is definitely helping with speed control, once I get 5-15" cleaned up I should be in business as I have already dropped 1 putt/round compared to last year.

Just got the Decade month 3 videos unlocked a couple days ago. Huge amount of info on the targeting process, the 6 month foundations membership is a great value for the amount of knowledge it exposes you to compared to the cost of 1 lesson. Especially if you put in the effort to use the Combine tools, which I haven't had the chance to use.

[THEZIPR23]

2 hours ago, myherobobhope said:

6.8 Handicap... just paid the $99 for 6 months of access... I'm excited to better track stats and have some better course management...

I was hesitant to sign up as my game isn't "fully online" from a back injury last year... but now is the time for now. 

I'm excited to see how it goes.

You will get a lot out of it. And don't worry about the back, DECADE will help you shoot better scores without doing anything physically different. 

[myherobobhope]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

You will get a lot out of it. And don't worry about the back, DECADE will help you shoot better scores without doing anything physically different. 

Back is healed, and I'm back to doing full swings... just have 6 months of rust (and tight muscles) to shake off... honestly, I had a really good range session today, and I'm excited for my game this season... DECADE seems like it might be a missing piece of the puzzle... We shall see!

 

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

The putting speed drill is so hard, first try last night as the putting green was empty after playing a late 9... Probably not a good sign that I was better around 20-30' than up to 10' in the smaller window. 

I guess Exputt is definitely helping with speed control, once I get 5-15" cleaned up I should be in business as I have already dropped 1 putt/round compared to last year.

Just got the Decade month 3 videos unlocked a couple days ago. Huge amount of info on the targeting process, the 6 month foundations membership is a great value for the amount of knowledge it exposes you to compared to the cost of 1 lesson. Especially if you put in the effort to use the Combine tools, which I haven't had the chance to use.

Oh man... I've started doing more of these types of drills... I've done Scott's ladder stuff before (though ironically did it in a way he SPECIFICALLY said not to do it... for a long time and without enough focus) so it will be good to add it back in in a more productive manner... I also really like the moonwalking drill, as I think it will help me build a more confident stroke on longer putts.

 

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I think this is the best investment you could have made then, especially if you're limited in your ability to make mechanical improvements.  If you're like me you're not content to simply play and not get better...better course management and a better mental perspective should absolutely help you do that.  I'm already seeing dividends after a month of membership.

I'm pretty excited about it... though I've been listening to him talk for so long, I'm ready for more content!! I have access to the 2nd month as I was on the first month free, and have already burned through the videos... It's all good, and I think it's probably best for me to really invest in the system.

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, myherobobhope said:

I'm pretty excited about it... though I've been listening to him talk for so long, I'm ready for more content!! I have access to the 2nd month as I was on the first month free, and have already burned through the videos... It's all good, and I think it's probably best for me to really invest in the system.

I watched the videos multiple times until the next set was made available.   Was good to hear the info multiple times to make sure it sunk in.

[myherobobhope]

So turns out when you make a triple bogey on a par five with a three putt and 2 chips after being 100 yards out after 2 swings you get to check ALL the boxes on the Tiger 5 list when tracking your round... So that was fun...

I'm really liking the putting stuff... it's something I've always wanted to improve at but never knew how to practice. I've harassed both Lou and Scott with questions and they've been helpful but it's also funny to see the differences in their personalities... I asked about measuring distance for the putting combine, and said "is it OK to just step it off?"... Scott said "sure, that works" and Lou said "I measure it off to 1/16th of an inch"... 

[BMart519]

1 hour ago, myherobobhope said:

So turns out when you make a triple bogey on a par five with a three putt and 2 chips after being 100 yards out after 2 swings you get to check ALL the boxes on the Tiger 5 list when tracking your round... So that was fun...

I'm really liking the putting stuff... it's something I've always wanted to improve at but never knew how to practice. I've harassed both Lou and Scott with questions and they've been helpful but it's also funny to see the differences in their personalities... I asked about measuring distance for the putting combine, and said "is it OK to just step it off?"... Scott said "sure, that works" and Lou said "I measure it off to 1/16th of an inch"... 

Did he clarify whether that 1/16" is to the closest edge of the ball or center?

[myherobobhope]

3 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Did he clarify whether that 1/16" is to the closest edge of the ball or center?

This is a good question!

[shome]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:45 PM, myherobobhope said:

This is a good question!

I heard Lou say on a podcast that he shoots his laser measuring device to the stick.  It makes a good vertical target. 

[myherobobhope]

4 hours ago, shome said:

I heard Lou say on a podcast that he shoots his laser measuring device to the stick.  It makes a good vertical target. 

I briefly contemplated picking one up, but it's $300 and I'd rather buy a new 3 wood with that money... 

I've just started into Month 3 of DECADE, and I'm pretty excited about it...

Interesting, my driver was drawing today and I was hitting the ball better than I ever have... I couldn't force a fade even when trying (my default shot shape)... so I guess I'm playing a draw for the time being!

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:53 PM, myherobobhope said:

I've just started into Month 3 of DECADE, and I'm pretty excited about it...

I just got access to Month 3 as well and it seems like the flood gates opened; VERY excited to have access to this and to start to understand targeting better.  To be honest, I'm realizing that some of my targets have been too conservative...when I first started DECADE and heard Scott talking about playing without seeing the pin, I started playing too far away from trouble.

Biggest challenge holding me back (I think) is not being certain on my distances.  (That and the occasional double-cross with driver.)  The last few rounds have been very windy so I'm not going to overreact, but with all my speed training I've picked up about 5 yards across the board.  Again, I think.  Monday I had an 87 yard shot out of the rough coming uphill, and I blew it 10 yards last the pin with what I thought was a conservative swing.  Might have had a jumper out of the rough, but still.  Need to hit the range and dial it in, problem there being how much can you really dial it in with a bucket of Pinnacle range balls.

[myherobobhope]

6 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I just got access to Month 3 as well and it seems like the flood gates opened; VERY excited to have access to this and to start to understand targeting better.  To be honest, I'm realizing that some of my targets have been too conservative...when I first started DECADE and heard Scott talking about playing without seeing the pin, I started playing too far away from trouble.

Biggest challenge holding me back (I think) is not being certain on my distances.  (That and the occasional double-cross with driver.)  The last few rounds have been very windy so I'm not going to overreact, but with all my speed training I've picked up about 5 yards across the board.  Again, I think.  Monday I had an 87 yard shot out of the rough coming uphill, and I blew it 10 yards last the pin with what I thought was a conservative swing.  Might have had a jumper out of the rough, but still.  Need to hit the range and dial it in, problem there being how much can you really dial it in with a bucket of Pinnacle range balls.

Yeah, I'm coming off a back injury and have no real idea my distances... fortunately, I have access to a simulator, so I'm hoping to go spend some time hitting my balls in it and lock down my "stock" distances... Definitely agree on moving to too conservative when I first started... His stuff makes a lot of intuitive sense, and I'm very curious to try it some more... still getting my game back online, though!

[GolfSpy AFG]

So, with month 4 content now available to me, I have to say...I was picking some bad targets and the system is definitely helping with that, but the mental game and expectations management aspect of DECADE is what I think is paying the biggest dividends for me.

I was SHOCKED listening today to hear these stats:

PGA Tour average to hole out from the rough from over 160 yards?  3.63!  PGA Tour average to hole out from the rough from over 100 yards?  3.03!

Maybe these aren't as mind-blowing to you as they are to me, but it's very helpful to me to know that if I'm in the rough for my approach, and I get it on the putting surface, it's a good shot, and if I'm chipping it's really not as awful as I've been acting.

Granted, these guys are playing a rough height that I'm not, I get it, but it's still eye-opening to me.  

Thinking about buying Mark Broadie's book but I hear it's not the easiest read.

[analyticandrew]

1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

So, with month 4 content now available to me, I have to say...I was picking some bad targets and the system is definitely helping with that, but the mental game and expectations management aspect of DECADE is what I think is paying the biggest dividends for me.

I was SHOCKED listening today to hear these stats:

PGA Tour average to hole out from the rough from over 160 yards?  3.63!  PGA Tour average to hole out from the rough from over 100 yards?  3.03!

Maybe these aren't as mind-blowing to you as they are to me, but it's very helpful to me to know that if I'm in the rough for my approach, and I get it on the putting surface, it's a good shot, and if I'm chipping it's really not as awful as I've been acting.

Granted, these guys are playing a rough height that I'm not, I get it, but it's still eye-opening to me.  

Thinking about buying Mark Broadie's book but I hear it's not the easiest read.

Definitely mind-blowing for sure. Some of the stats that Lou Stagner puts out there on twitter about managing your expectations have literally changed the way that I approach the game.

This is one that I remember literally every time I have a 120-130 shot: 
"From 123-yards in the fairway, PGA Tour Players are more likely to hit it OUTSIDE 30-feet than they are to hit it inside 10-feet."

So me hitting a gap wedge or flighted PW to 30-40' I should actually feel REALLY GOOD ABOUT.