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Decade golf app - my 6 month journey


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5 minutes ago, analyticandrew said:

Definitely mind-blowing for sure. Some of the stats that Lou Stagner puts out there on twitter about managing your expectations have literally changed the way that I approach the game.

This is one that I remember literally every time I have a 120-130 shot: 
"From 123-yards in the fairway, PGA Tour Players are more likely to hit it OUTSIDE 30-feet than they are to hit it inside 10-feet."

So me hitting a gap wedge or flighted PW to 30-40' I should actually feel REALLY GOOD ABOUT. 🙂

YES!  Love these inputs from Lou and Scott.  I spent a lot of time beating myself at being 20 feet away in this situation, probably from too much stock on some of the nonsense coming from Azinger and crew....

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FW:  :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 65g Stiff

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: SIM DHY 3 & 4H, Diamana Limited Hybrid 75g Stiff

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Wedges: :vokey-small:SM8 54 S Grind, 60 M Grind

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1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

YES!  Love these inputs from Lou and Scott.  I spent a lot of time beating myself at being 20 feet away in this situation, probably from too much stock on some of the nonsense coming from Azinger and crew....

Same. They are great follows on Twitter. Azinger and his ilk don't help, as you mentioned, but who we see on a weekly basis probably doesn't help either. We always see the guys who are "on" any given week, so whoever they are, they are playing at the tail of the distribution, in general and knocking more shots closer than average. At least that's my take.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So after reading this thread back in November I bought Lowest Score Wins. The book is great! I enjoy the Hack It Out podcast as well and they talk about Decade a lot. Anyways the two course management systems seem very similar. Really the only difference I see is that LSW uses you dispersion circles and Decade used distance triangles. But they seem to come to the same conclusion. Anyone care to elaborate if there is anything I’m missing? I was considering the foundations course, to get a decision map for my home course, but I don’t know if it would be anything that I haven’t read or heard in LSW. 

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37 minutes ago, Kitsu said:

So after reading this thread back in November I bought Lowest Score Wins. The book is great! I enjoy the Hack It Out podcast as well and they talk about Decade a lot. Anyways the two course management systems seem very similar. Really the only difference I see is that LSW uses you dispersion circles and Decade used distance triangles. But they seem to come to the same conclusion. Anyone care to elaborate if there is anything I’m missing? I was considering the foundations course, to get a decision map for my home course, but I don’t know if it would be anything that I haven’t read or heard in LSW. 

How does LSW determine your target on greens?    That is probably the big difference since DECADE doesn't use dispersion circles,  it uses distance from the hole.  

 

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Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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15 minutes ago, cnosil said:

How does LSW determine your target on greens?    That is probably the big difference since DECADE doesn't use dispersion circles,  it uses distance from the hole.  

 

Pretty much you aim for the center or biggest part of the green, while trying to keep penalties/traps out of your circle as much as possible. 

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Just now, Kitsu said:

Pretty much you aim for the center or biggest part of the green, while trying to keep penalties/traps out of your circle as much as possible. 

There is one difference.      

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Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

There is one difference.      

Care to elaborate? Most of what I know about decade is about your tee shot. I do t know much about the approach shot. 

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1 minute ago, Kitsu said:

Care to elaborate? Most of what I know about decade is about your tee shot. I do t know much about the approach shot. 

since that is a large part of what you pay for with DECADE I will only say that target a factor of how far you are from the hole.  the farther away more you put your shot pattern over the middle of the green.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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8 hours ago, cnosil said:

since that is a large part of what you pay for with DECADE I will only say that target a factor of how far you are from the hole.  the farther away more you put your shot pattern over the middle of the green.  

Still sounds pretty similar. The farther away you are from the green, the larger your dispersion circle will be, which means you’ll be aiming closer to the middle of the green. They could be saying the same thing, just wording it differently. LSW was published in 2014, so maybe Decade is an updated approach. I’m still not good enough for either system. But I’ve went from shooting in the 100s to shooting in the low 90s this year, mainly by using my driver off the tee and not laying up on approach shots. I might still give decade foundations a shot. 

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17 minutes ago, Kitsu said:

Still sounds pretty similar. The farther away you are from the green, the larger your dispersion circle will be, which means you’ll be aiming closer to the middle of the green. They could be saying the same thing, just wording it differently. LSW was published in 2014, so maybe Decade is an updated approach. I’m still not good enough for either system. But I’ve went from shooting in the 100s to shooting in the low 90s this year, mainly by using my driver off the tee and not laying up on approach shots. I might still give decade foundations a shot. 

Not saying the same thing.  DECADE doesn’t directly use dispersion circles on approach shots to the green.  The approach uses them as part of the math that you do to calculate and modify your target.  A PGA professional and a 25 handicap would have the same target from the same distance. 
 

but maybe they are close to the same thing,  might have to get a copy of the book to read.  

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

but maybe they are close to the same thing,  might have to get a copy of the book to read.  

I've read LSW, but not used Decade, and I think you'd get value from LSW.  As you've decided, I don't think its appropriate to "give away" too many details of either system.  LSW uses essentially a visual system of assigning shades of gray to different portions of the course.  Your goal in deciding where to aim is to make your dispersion circle as white as possible, so its a graphical evaluation rather than a mathematical one.

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

A PGA professional and a 25 handicap would have the same target from the same distance. 

This seems counter to information in Every Shot Counts, where higher-handicappers need to aim further from "danger" to optimize their long-term results.

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4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've read LSW, but not used Decade, and I think you'd get value from LSW.  As you've decided, I don't think its appropriate to "give away" too many details of either system.  LSW uses essentially a visual system of assigning shades of gray to different portions of the course.  Your goal in deciding where to aim is to make your dispersion circle as white as possible, so its a graphical evaluation rather than a mathematical one.

This seems counter to information in Every Shot Counts, where higher-handicappers need to aim further from "danger" to optimize their long-term results.

Thank you! I think you summarized this up better than be. Both use strokes gained, just one is a visual approach and the other is a mathematical approach. 

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33 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This seems counter to information in Every Shot Counts, where higher-handicappers need to aim further from "danger" to optimize their long-term results.

Haven’t read every shot counts and can only say that Scott references it a lot as a basis for the decision strategies.  With DECADE, you still need to understand your tendencies and aim away from danger.  This comes in with what Scott calls multipliers that alter where a player should aim based on the trouble and skill level.  From a targeting perspective,  Scott determined through evaluation that the difference in s*** pattern size really isn’t enough to alter the baseline strategy 

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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1 hour ago, Kitsu said:

I’m still not good enough for either system. 

Careful with this assumption.  Scott's not shy about saying that sometimes you just need to get better at golf, true, but you might consider how much of your scores are caused by technical/ball-striking issues, versus bad course management and mental game.  I personally have been struggling with my ball-striking for much of the season, but I'm getting much better scores than I might have pre-DECADE largely because I'm making much better decisions, and I'm doing a better job of not letting the bone-headed stuff stick with me.

The mental game and mindset coaching in DECADE is immensely valuable too, almost to the point that I feel like it's a bit of an oversimplification to say DECADE is simply course management training.  

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FW:  :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 65g Stiff

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: SIM DHY 3 & 4H, Diamana Limited Hybrid 75g Stiff

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 5-GW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

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Tested the Honma TR20 460 driver

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9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Haven’t read every shot counts and can only say that Scott references it a lot as a basis for the decision strategies.  With DECADE, you still need to understand your tendencies and aim away from danger.  This comes in with what Scott calls multipliers that alter where a player should aim based on the trouble and skill level.  From a targeting perspective,  Scott determined through evaluation that the difference in s*** pattern size really isn’t enough to alter the baseline strategy 

Additionally, if a less-accomplished player with a wider dispersion pattern were to take a more conservative target than the DECADE math prescribes, they're actually likely to bring more trouble into play on the other extreme of that dispersion pattern.  

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FW:  :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 65g Stiff

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: SIM DHY 3 & 4H, Diamana Limited Hybrid 75g Stiff

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 5-GW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Wedges: :vokey-small:SM8 54 S Grind, 60 M Grind

Putter: :EVNROLL:ER7B 

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Just adding it to this thread,  but if you want to understand a little more about DECADE, Scott was this weeks guest on No Putts Given.   

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2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Careful with this assumption.  Scott's not shy about saying that sometimes you just need to get better at golf, true, but you might consider how much of your scores are caused by technical/ball-striking issues, versus bad course management and mental game.  I personally have been struggling with my ball-striking for much of the season, but I'm getting much better scores than I might have pre-DECADE largely because I'm making much better decisions, and I'm doing a better job of not letting the bone-headed stuff stick with me.

The mental game and mindset coaching in DECADE is immensely valuable too, almost to the point that I feel like it's a bit of an oversimplification to say DECADE is simply course management training.  

It’s more or so that I don’t have a consistent shot pattern/swing yet. I really need to practice more, but generally I will opt to play 9 vs going to the range. Generally I try to see after the first 2 holes where my shot are going and then adjust my aim from there. But walking up to the first tee box, I can’t tell you which way it’s going to go. I think it’s based on how hard I swing. If I swing hard I’ll go right, and I swing slow I go left. 
 

Since finally getting a real driver, I’m often leaving myself 120yds or less to the green. And from there it’ll take me 4-5 shots to get it in the hole. So I know I need to work on my short game, 2 chips have been killing me lately. 

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6 minutes ago, Kitsu said:

It’s more or so that I don’t have a consistent shot pattern/swing yet. I really need to practice more, but generally I will opt to play 9 vs going to the range. Generally I try to see after the first 2 holes where my shot are going and then adjust my aim from there. But walking up to the first tee box, I can’t tell you which way it’s going to go. I think it’s based on how hard I swing. If I swing hard I’ll go right, and I swing slow I go left. 
 

Since finally getting a real driver, I’m often leaving myself 120yds or less to the green. And from there it’ll take me 4-5 shots to get it in the hole. So I know I need to work on my short game, 2 chips have been killing me lately. 

I own a copy of LSW and have a 6 month Decade membership. The dispersion circle concept is the same in Decade, except it is shown at the end of the cone for tee shots. The major difference is LSW doesn't talk about specific widths of your dispersion circle. The most specific numbers are the penalty buffers which are either 5/10 or 10/20 yard offsets from later hazards/OB. 

If you are not going to put the effort in to spend hours on a launch monitor with all or half the clubs in your bag to calculate your dispersion circles with each club, there will be less value in the specific approach strategy to Decade and the LSW approach will get you 80-90% of the way there in terms of strategy. A big aspect is learning where the center of your dispersion circle is relative to your aim: if your shots finish on average 10 yards right with long irons and 20 yards right with driver, do you know that number and are you taking it into account with your aim on each shot. If you slice driver 30 yards, you might need to aim at the edge of water on the left or within the "penalty buffer" from LSW. 

That said, there is tons of valuable info, videos, and tools in the Decade app and subscription from putting and range drills to mental game scorecards, etc. I would say the 6 month membership (which often gets discounted) provided more value at 3-5x costs of the LSW book. Even seeing the practice stations that Scott uses to maintain his skill level as a +5 handicap is helpful to improving your game. I've read multiple books Scott has suggested as well as subscribed to the Waking Up meditation app on his recommendation. 

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As a  Minnesota golfer who maybes gets to golf through October, is it worth it to start the Decade app stuff now and have the last 3 months of stuff be winter work, off course?  Can you advance ahead in the app faster than a month at a time?

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3 minutes ago, Chillyinminny said:

As a  Minnesota golfer who maybes gets to golf through October, is it worth it to start the Decade app stuff now and have the last 3 months of stuff be winter work, off course?  Can you advance ahead in the app faster than a month at a time?

Do it next year and start it 2 or 3 months before your season starts. More of the tracking and gameplay comes out in the last 3 months. 

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