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Decade golf app - my 6 month journey


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3 hours ago, edingc said:

Had this same question and @THEZIPR23 and Scott addressed it a few months back on Twitter:

image.png.97e1c80a7784628361bb16fafd7bee5a.png

Look at that! Not surprised someone else had the same question...now is it a coincidence or not that it's someone who plays the same courses as me? 😂 Thanks for sharing!

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Driver (9°): :cobra-small: Speedzone (HZRDUS Smoke Green 70g X-Stiff shaft)

2 Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

3/Driving Iron (18°): :Hogan: UiHi Iron (KBS Tour V 110g shaft)

Irons (4-PW)  post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS-1's (KBS $-Taper 120g Stiff shafts)

Wedges (50°, 54° & 58°) post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TSW Forged (Dynamic Gold S300)

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour OR TP5X

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I didn't see many posts talking about this app and strategy, and I am JUST getting started (week one!) so I thought I'd start this thread and inform/keep you up to date on my progress. Disclaimer

Your question is VERY timely. My dad played yesterday and had an OB ball and so I built him these views based off of his "natural shot pattern" would be. This is part of hole number 8 at his home

Today's webinar was great; while I know Scott is trying to get people to buy the program, it was still nice for he and Lou Stagner to spend an hour and 15 minutes giving to a webinar on DECADE to peop

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4 hours ago, ncwoz said:

Look at that! Not surprised someone else had the same question...now is it a coincidence or not that it's someone who plays the same courses as me? 😂 Thanks for sharing!

Of course! We have so many courses around here that are so tightly-lined that DECADE-type strategy isn't so obvious all of the time.

I've redone my strategy now to look more at "hazards" reached on a line with distance and less at hazards left and right. Scott not wrong in his reply to me, I'm very likely to hit a shorter club into the trees as well. But there are a few holes where driver is simply too long and would run my into trouble on my intended line. On those holes I'm looking to drop back slightly to avoid the straightaway hazards.

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Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Mavrik (9°), 45.75", Dumina AutoFlex SF505X | Unofficial AutoFlex Review
17° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Super Hybrid, 41.5", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
18.5° Driving Iron: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2016 Model), 39.5", Mitsubishi MMT Utility 105 TX
21° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Epic Flash, 40", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
4-AW:  
Sub70_Logo_WhtBlk.jpg.aee386374adf9afd31a02b989c839f9d.jpg Sub70 699 (4-6)/699 Pro (7-AW) Combo Set, 1° Flat, 37" 7 Iron, Mitsubishi MMT Taper 105 TX | Build Thread
54°, 58°:
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING MIM Black, 1° Flat, 35.5", 35.25", Mitsubishi MMT Wedge 105 TX | #CobraConnect Review
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
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@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

  • If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
  • When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
  • If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

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4 Wood (17*) - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
7 Wood  - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha Warbird S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
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6 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

  • If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
  • When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
  • If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

It kinda depends on which course and which hole specifically, but there's some where trees are really thick and being in them causes a lot more headache. Other spots the trees may just be sparse and it's more a matter of just hoping you're lucky and don't end up right behind a trunk or something. I'm a lot more apt to take on the trees if it's a par 5, because I figure I have another stroke to get me out of the trees if needed, and if I hit it down the middle I'm giving myself a chance at hitting the green in 2. But there's certainly some places where the trees are dead and I try to avoid them with shorter clubs off the tee.

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Driver (9°): :cobra-small: Speedzone (HZRDUS Smoke Green 70g X-Stiff shaft)

2 Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

3/Driving Iron (18°): :Hogan: UiHi Iron (KBS Tour V 110g shaft)

Irons (4-PW)  post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS-1's (KBS $-Taper 120g Stiff shafts)

Wedges (50°, 54° & 58°) post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TSW Forged (Dynamic Gold S300)

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour OR TP5X

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7 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

  • If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
  • When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
  • If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

@ncwoz covered it pretty well but here's a few example holes from my home course. There are only a few tree areas that have underbrush, so unless you're on the outskirts of the course and hit one OB you likely can play a shot out. 

Hole 1 - 305 yard par 4. You're not getting back to the hole from anywhere on the right side, but you don't want to be long or left of the two trees on the left. This is a hole I used to hit driver on but find my Super Hybrid leaves me with ~50 yards and can't reach the big tree on the left. With driver I was way more likely to be right in the trees or left and probably re-teeing.

1.jpg.9f9cd9a592a666e7be5674c3d641da2f.jpg

Hole 3 - 510-ish par 5. Left trees are full of underbrush and ball will be gone. Trees to the right you can punch back out but unlikely to advance. Being a par 5 you'd think driver but the big tree on the left side of the fairway really blocks you out. I've had better luck sitting back short of the tree and then hitting a hybrid up near the green because there is a big bail out area right.

3.jpg.d9ba7c7480c721612d5ddebb477918ee.jpg

Hole 13 - Another short par 4. Here's where the hit driver strategy is better, and in the past I tried using an iron here but found myself in trouble more often than not. The hole is short enough that the driver actually gets you out of trouble and irons leave more trees in play.

13.jpg.dd897a97dfd9ae6ccdc11d41b09cae7b.jpg

Not all courses around here are like this - but as you'll notice at biggest our fairways are 40 yards wide and almost all of them are tree lined. Only a few holes really allow you to go for it without worrying about trees.

course.jpg.8a6ec8c0854976b1bbf43418dd7aed19.jpg

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17° Hybrid:
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54°, 58°:
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Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
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what would DECADE suggest from here?

This is the first hole.

if you want to carry the water - 200;

Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 

(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)

 

image.png.745449f4f293b89cb37e4c11dcc4a4eb.png

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what would DECADE suggest from here?
This is the first hole.
if you want to carry the water - 200;
Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 
(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)
 
image.png.745449f4f293b89cb37e4c11dcc4a4eb.png

You can use his decision chart to see the recommendation. I found it on his Twitter feed. The first hole of the day is irrelevant; you should be prepared to hit the necessary shot on any hole.

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Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

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...interesting. thanks for the flow chart.

big time disagree with the first hole being irrelevant; esp if you aren't able to warm up prior to your round. 

in theory - yeah, but not in practice. plenty of evidence of that; look at Hideki's first hole on Sunday. 

I think you should always hit the club you're confident and comfortable with at the time. If not your odds of success go way down. 

Again - in theory you should be confident and comfortable with all of your clubs, but c'mon, we all know that isn't reality.

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...interesting. thanks for the flow chart.
big time disagree with the first hole being irrelevant; esp if you aren't able to warm up prior to your round. 
in theory - yeah, but not in practice. plenty of evidence of that; look at Hideki's first hole on Sunday. 
I think you should always hit the club you're confident and comfortable with at the time. If not your odds of success go way down. 
Again - in theory you should be confident and comfortable with all of your clubs, but c'mon, we all know that isn't reality.

You can find lots of information on decade by searching the media on Scott’s twittter and YouTube.

I agree many people don’t warm up and aren’t prepared to start a round. Confidence and commitment get into the mental aspects of the game that Scott talks about in DECADE
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                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

what would DECADE suggest from here?

This is the first hole.

if you want to carry the water - 200;

Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 

(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)

 

image.png.745449f4f293b89cb37e4c11dcc4a4eb.png

Curious how you play this hole? And also, how tall are the trees nearest the left side past the water? Can you punch out from under them should it get caught up? 

My first glance thought is to hit whatever club you can carry 220 consistently on a line just to the right of what you'e drawn. 5 wood, 3 wood, hybrid, whatever. My aggressive play would be to take a similar line to what you've drawn with driver.

Personally, knowing my shot shapes and misses, I would feel less comfortable laying back on this hole because I'm quite likely to hook my 5/6 iron into the water playing for that 185 landing spot in the fairway.

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Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Mavrik (9°), 45.75", Dumina AutoFlex SF505X | Unofficial AutoFlex Review
17° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Super Hybrid, 41.5", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
18.5° Driving Iron: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2016 Model), 39.5", Mitsubishi MMT Utility 105 TX
21° Hybrid:
callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Epic Flash, 40", Mitsubishi MMT Hybrid 80 TX
4-AW:  
Sub70_Logo_WhtBlk.jpg.aee386374adf9afd31a02b989c839f9d.jpg Sub70 699 (4-6)/699 Pro (7-AW) Combo Set, 1° Flat, 37" 7 Iron, Mitsubishi MMT Taper 105 TX | Build Thread
54°, 58°:
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING MIM Black, 1° Flat, 35.5", 35.25", Mitsubishi MMT Wedge 105 TX | #CobraConnect Review
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
lamkin.png.5081890e009ae78e16066ee0fd18b7c0.png Lamkin Sonar Tour
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: :Arccos: Arccos | #CobraConnect Review
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
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6 minutes ago, edingc said:

Curious how you play this hole? And also, how tall are the trees nearest the left side past the water? Can you punch out from under them should it get caught up? 

My first glance thought is to hit whatever club you can carry 220 consistently on a line just to the right of what you'e drawn. 5 wood, 3 wood, hybrid, whatever. My aggressive play would be to take a similar line to what you've drawn with driver.

Personally, knowing my shot shapes and misses, I would feel less comfortable laying back on this hole because I'm quite likely to hook my 5/6 iron into the water playing for that 185 landing spot in the fairway.

I've played this hole a lot; I'd say 99% of the time I playing to the right of the pond. in front of the circle but behind the red line. That usually leaves me a 9 or PW into the green but I'm sometimes blocked out by the tree on my right and I either have to cut the shot in or play to the left side of the green and hope they don't put the pin in a bad spot.

I've birdied it a couple times but am happy with a par here.

One guy I played with who'd never played it before grabbed his driver and just ripped it over the pond. Not sure I'd have the guts to do that but I'd really like to try. 

and yes, if you get caught up in the trees past the pond you have to punch a low runner out.

Also there's trouble on the right under the trees as there is a ditch that runs along the side of the fw if you go too far right.

Surely you're right with a consistent 220 carry on a line but those words aren't always in my golfing vocabulary 🤣

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I'm certainly not an expert in DECADE, but I would say depending on how high the trees on the left are and what your driver carry is, the blue line is probably the recommended DECADE line. If that's not possible, the red is probably the DECADE line as it covers the pond and is the widest section of the hole apart from the blue area.

what would DECADE suggest from here?
This is the first hole.
if you want to carry the water - 200;
Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 
(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)
 
image.png.745449f4f293b89cb37e4c11dcc4a4eb.png
tapatalk_1618585328514~3.jpeg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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5 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I'm certainly not an expert in DECADE, but I would say depending on how high the trees on the left are and what your driver carry is, the blue line is probably the recommended DECADE line. If that's not possible, the red is probably the DECADE line as it covers the pond and is the widest section of the hole apart from the blue area.

tapatalk_1618585328514~3.jpeg

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

Interesting - yeah - those trees are big but if you can elevate it like a tour player you might be able to get over.

That red landing area is only 35 yards wide so your margin for error is small and any minor mistake and you're likely punching out and giving up a stroke. 

I would love to take 5 balls from the tee and try it, but it's the first hole and you're right out in front of the clubhouse.

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(D) G410 LST | (3) SpeedZone Big Tour | (5) TM Sim Max | (H) Titleist 818 H2 | (I) Z785 | (W) ZipCore | (P) Cleveland Premier HB 11

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That usually leaves me a 9 or PW into the green but I'm sometimes blocked out by the tree on my right and I either have to cut the shot in or play to the left side of the green and hope they don't put the pin in a bad spot.


Per feedback from Scott; if you are getting yourself into wedge distance that is an acceptable play. Being blocked out sometimes is just part of your dispersion pattern. Play the shot that is available and move on.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Not as entertaining a post as some of these hole discussions, but having started Foundations I've watched the first video a couple times over and he's already recommended a couple of books (in addition to the ones he pushes on Twitter); specifically Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, and Elements of Scoring by Ray Floyd.  I know reading these books is not essential to learning DECADE, but has anyone read these by chance?  Recommend them?

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Driver: :honma:TR20 460, Vizard 60g Stiff

FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: SIM DHY 3 & 4H, Diamana Limited Hybrid 75g Stiff

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Wedges::vokey-small:SM8 54 S Grind, 60 M Grind

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER7B 

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I've not read the Floyd book but I do own a copy of Broadie's. I highly recommend it.

Not as entertaining a post as some of these hole discussions, but having started Foundations I've watched the first video a couple times over and he's already recommended a couple of books (in addition to the ones he pushes on Twitter); specifically Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, and Elements of Scoring by Ray Floyd.  I know reading these books is not essential to learning DECADE, but has anyone read these by chance?  Recommend them?


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Interesting - yeah - those trees are big but if you can elevate it like a tour player you might be able to get over.
That red landing area is only 35 yards wide so your margin for error is small and any minor mistake and you're likely punching out and giving up a stroke. 
I would love to take 5 balls from the tee and try it, but it's the first hole and you're right out in front of the clubhouse.
As cnosil put it, if you're getting a wedge or 9i in, you're probably making an acceptable play on the hole. Unless you can carry those left hand trees on the blue line, the margin for error is small pretty much the whole way up the hole until that big opening left and short of the green. At that point, you're playing for percentages. Laying back a bit might give you a better angle to the green, but you have less fairway to work with and a water hazard to deal with and the trees on the right are likely still in play. And this is one of the sticking points Scott gets into on Twitter a lot, angles don't matter enough for you to be chasing them as a good angle often means aiming into more trouble and giving yourself a much smaller margin for error. Your aimpoint should be to center your dispersion in the least amount of trouble as possible and as far down the hole as possible. If you end up blocked out in the trees, unfortunately that's just shot variance at play and could just as easily happen if you lay back too. Hopefully that makes sense. I'm not an expert on DECADE, but this is just what I've gathered from following Scott and Lou for the last year and a bit, plus the free month of Foundations I got last year.

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1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Not as entertaining a post as some of these hole discussions, but having started Foundations I've watched the first video a couple times over and he's already recommended a couple of books (in addition to the ones he pushes on Twitter); specifically Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, and Elements of Scoring by Ray Floyd.  I know reading these books is not essential to learning DECADE, but has anyone read these by chance?  Recommend them?

Just bought the floyd book on amazon. I like his thinking and his book 60 yards in was pretty good.

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(D) G410 LST | (3) SpeedZone Big Tour | (5) TM Sim Max | (H) Titleist 818 H2 | (I) Z785 | (W) ZipCore | (P) Cleveland Premier HB 11

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1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Not as entertaining a post as some of these hole discussions, but having started Foundations I've watched the first video a couple times over and he's already recommended a couple of books (in addition to the ones he pushes on Twitter); specifically Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie, and Elements of Scoring by Ray Floyd.  I know reading these books is not essential to learning DECADE, but has anyone read these by chance?  Recommend them?

I've read Broadie's book.  As I understand it, Broadie's Strokes Gained evaluations form the basis for much of the current shot planning systems.  It was interesting, but he did spend a lot of the book using Strokes Gained to "prove" what a good tool  Strokes Gained is.  A bit of a circular discussion, to my mind.

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:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

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4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I've read Broadie's book.  As I understand it, Broadie's Strokes Gained evaluations form the basis for much of the current shot planning systems.  It was interesting, but he did spend a lot of the book using Strokes Gained to "prove" what a good tool  Strokes Gained is.  A bit of a circular discussion, to my mind.

Yeah - taking a quick look at it online it seemed really analytical. And, like you said, he was trying to prove his point.

I'm sure there's good stuff in there but there also seems to be some extra noise.

Hoping that the Floyd book is more practical.

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(D) G410 LST | (3) SpeedZone Big Tour | (5) TM Sim Max | (H) Titleist 818 H2 | (I) Z785 | (W) ZipCore | (P) Cleveland Premier HB 11

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