Wedges

[twyatt700]

 

So I’ve been really trying to get my clubs paired down, since using arccos I’ve found that I have a weakness from 3w to 5i and with my up and down performance around the green. It started to make me think. Why do I have a 58* wedge when I can easily open up a for flops and turn it down for a numb and run? I’m starting wonder why an amateur needs a 54 and 58 wedge when I can’t devote the time to practice with either. I’m thinking of going with just a 56 and then next up would be my 50 gap. I also play one length and love it. The standard length wedges are so short too that I never feel confident when a full shot. Would going from 50 to 56* too much of a gap? Anyone else have this thought? Or am I just crazy? Also anyone tried out the new cobra MIM wedge?

I’ll hang up and listen.

 

 

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[cnosil]

I don't think there is anything wrong with this approach as long as you can hit your desired distances.  

[Nic]

I really like the MIM Black wedge... I'm giving them serious consideration since you can get them with a high bounce... good looking wedges to me.

[jkpigott]

Two thoughts on your question.

First, what's lacking at the top of the bag?  When you said you played one-lengths, I was surprised to see the Ping Crossovers in the bag.  I would have guessed hybrids. I've tried the Cobra one-length hybrids and was surprised to see how closely they matched the distances in my full length hybrids while being SUPER EASY to hit and control. Outside of one length, have also found the Ping G410 hybrids to be long and forgiving. and since adjustable you can really dial in the lofts to create good gapping.  Suspect the yardage gaps between the two current crossovers are pretty close.

Second on wedges, agree that the 58 might be a nice to have vs a need to have.  The key for me in wedges is to be sure both of those high lofts have different bounce properties.  One with high bounce and one with low.  For me my 56 (bent to 55) is my mid bounce that is my go-to in sand.  My 60 has very little bounce which is great off firm tight lies.  I can also lay it open if I am short sided and really need to flop.  I could easily have less bounce on the 56 and lay it off and more on the 60 then use it in sand.

Hope that helps. Hit 'em straight

[heavygolffeels]

This is really up to the individual. I personally dont make alot of full shots with a SW or LW so I would not care about gaps too much. If you are only using a 56 degree around the greens, the question would be more what is your hole proximity hitting different shots with that wedge. Some people like using just one wedge around the green. You develop a sense of familiarity just using one club in play and practice. However, you are really limiting versatility. Keep in mind that when you close or hood a wedge you are reducing the bounce. A hooded 56 with 8 degrees on bounce plays much differently than a neutral 54 with 8 degrees. Likewise for opening the face. Like others have mentioned, I also prefer to use a mid to high bounce SW and a lower bounce LW. Gives you more options on shot types from different lies. 

[ZenGolfer]

IMO, most people dont need a 58 or 60 and probably shouldnt even be carrying one because it tempts you to hit high risk shots that you simply shouldnt be trying to hit.

[aerospace_ray]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:31 PM, twyatt700 said:

 

So I’ve been really trying to get my clubs paired down, since using arccos I’ve found that I have a weakness from 3w to 5i and with my up and down performance around the green. It started to make me think. Why do I have a 58* wedge when I can easily open up a for flops and turn it down for a numb and run? I’m starting wonder why an amateur needs a 54 and 58 wedge when I can’t devote the time to practice with either. I’m thinking of going with just a 56 and then next up would be my 50 gap. I also play one length and love it. The standard length wedges are so short too that I never feel confident when a full shot. Would going from 50 to 56* too much of a gap? Anyone else have this thought? Or am I just crazy? Also anyone tried out the new cobra MIM wedge?

I’ll hang up and listen.

 

 

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Great you are playing single length and you like them. Question. Are you considering the 56 to be the same length as the 50 deg? 

[twyatt700]

Great you are playing single length and you like them. Question. Are you considering the 56 to be the same length as the 50 deg? 

I was considering going slightly shorter to make it more workable. But I’ve realized I just need to go see a club fitter to make sure. I was trying the budget- do it yourself thing for the last few years and basically have realized I just need to get a professionals eyes on what I got. Luckily I have a really good fitting center right down the road, just need to find the time to get over there.

 

 

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[twyatt700]

Two thoughts on your question.

First, what's lacking at the top of the bag?  When you said you played one-lengths, I was surprised to see the Ping Crossovers in the bag.  I would have guessed hybrids. I've tried the Cobra one-length hybrids and was surprised to see how closely they matched the distances in my full length hybrids while being SUPER EASY to hit and control. Outside of one length, have also found the Ping G410 hybrids to be long and forgiving. and since adjustable you can really dial in the lofts to create good gapping.  Suspect the yardage gaps between the two current crossovers are pretty close.

Second on wedges, agree that the 58 might be a nice to have vs a need to have.  The key for me in wedges is to be sure both of those high lofts have different bounce properties.  One with high bounce and one with low.  For me my 56 (bent to 55) is my mid bounce that is my go-to in sand.  My 60 has very little bounce which is great off firm tight lies.  I can also lay it open if I am short sided and really need to flop.  I could easily have less bounce on the 56 and lay it off and more on the 60 then use it in sand.

Hope that helps. Hit 'em straight

Yeah I’ve been a little impulsey on my purchases. Truthfully, I have never been fit but used to play baseball and was a hitting instructor in college. My job now involves a lot on human body movement and mechanics so I have tried the do it yourself model to save money and the time to get fit. I’m now realizing my folly lol.

But basically I couldn’t hit the hybrid I had, found a good deal online for the crossover, loved it bought another one with a stronger loft, but they basically go the same distance, at least not enough distance change to need both and still have the gap between my OL 5i.

My course was selling the Titelist 818 hybrids for $90 just to clear them out so I picked that up.. so I now I’m just going to got to a fitter to get the 4i figured out. 5i goes 180 ish and the hybrid is 210 so still an issue but better than before. The fitting center close to me said they can adjust my current set up too to help with some of the lost distance on the 5 and 6.

Im thinking I might just have my 58 bent down to 59 ish and lengthened slightly and go with a little shorter length on the MIM and have the fitting bent to 55. I like the idea of even gaps in loft. Either way Tony has finally convinced my to get fitted.

 

 

 

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[twyatt700]

IMO, most people dont need a 58 or 60 and probably shouldnt even be carrying one because it tempts you to hit high risk shots that you simply shouldnt be trying to hit.

That’s basically my thinking... but when it does work its freaking awesome!!

 

 

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[twyatt700]

This is really up to the individual. I personally dont make alot of full shots with a SW or LW so I would not care about gaps too much. If you are only using a 56 degree around the greens, the question would be more what is your hole proximity hitting different shots with that wedge. Some people like using just one wedge around the green. You develop a sense of familiarity just using one club in play and practice. However, you are really limiting versatility. Keep in mind that when you close or hood a wedge you are reducing the bounce. A hooded 56 with 8 degrees on bounce plays much differently than a neutral 54 with 8 degrees. Likewise for opening the face. Like others have mentioned, I also prefer to use a mid to high bounce SW and a lower bounce LW. Gives you more options on shot types from different lies. 

Yeah I played a vokey 56 and 60 for a while and when I wore them down to smooth and switched lofts to close the gap to my gap wedge and arccos tells me the wedge game is slipping. I really do best with a bump and run. I notice that I start to get in trouble when I try to get too cute. When I had a 56 I had no trouble with really opening it up for a flop. Less is more sometimes


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[ZenGolfer]

9 hours ago, twyatt700 said:

That’s basically my thinking... but when it does work its freaking awesome!!

 

 

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Hey, I hear you.  I used to carry a 60 and loved hitting flop shots with it.  I practiced with it all the time and got to where I was halfway decent with it but it went bad more often than not and Ive since pulled the 60 out of the bag in favor of just carrying a 56 and I dont miss the 60.

[TBS]

I have only carried a 56 but was thinking about when I get fit for my next set of irons that I go ahead and get fit for wedges too. Was thinking either 54/58 or 56/60 whatever fit my gaps better. Now I'm questioning whether I need a lob wedge or just keep with the 56. Top of my bag is fine- Dr, 3 wood, 3 Hybrid. Biggest gap is between my 3 hybrid and 3 wood but I rarely face a distance between those clubs on the course.

What do you all typically use out of the sand? 

[GregGarner]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:31 PM, twyatt700 said:

 

Would going from 50 to 56* too much of a gap? Anyone else have this thought?

 

I just recently took my 3i out to make room for a 50, 54, 58 setup, but before that I had gone about 15 years with a 52, 58 setup. 52 was for pitching and chipping and pretty much anything inside 100. 58 was for flops, 50/50 chips, and sand. Basically never hit my 58 with a full swing.

I kept this two-wedge setup when I got new irons two years ago without considering that in my new setup, my PW was a stronger loft, and I started having some issues between 130 and 100 yards (and was having a hard time flighting my PW accordingly). Still working out some kinks with the new setup and finding I'm more comfortable with the 54 than the 50, but it's getting there.

Ultimately, as seems to be pretty popular around here, it's about your game and your gapping. And, of course, thinking about the types of courses you play and what kind of grind/bounce you need for those conditions.

[tchat07]

I'm switching from a 48-52-56-60 to a 50-54-58 setup because I have new irons that arent as strong of lofts.

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[dankil13]

On 7/2/2020 at 9:31 PM, twyatt700 said:

 

So I’ve been really trying to get my clubs paired down, since using arccos I’ve found that I have a weakness from 3w to 5i and with my up and down performance around the green. It started to make me think. Why do I have a 58* wedge when I can easily open up a for flops and turn it down for a numb and run? I’m starting wonder why an amateur needs a 54 and 58 wedge when I can’t devote the time to practice with either. I’m thinking of going with just a 56 and then next up would be my 50 gap. I also play one length and love it. The standard length wedges are so short too that I never feel confident when a full shot. Would going from 50 to 56* too much of a gap? Anyone else have this thought? Or am I just crazy? Also anyone tried out the new cobra MIM wedge?

I’ll hang up and listen.

*********************************************

I have gamed 4 wedges for awhile now (PW 45, GW -50, SW 55, LW 60), as I use those clubs way more than I would use a 5W or 2I/Hybrid.  I might use my 4 iron once a round as our par 4s aren't very long, but 3 of  our par 3s are in the 200 yd range. 

With my 4 wedges, I prefer my 60 for sand shots, and 55 for most other shots around the green.  I'll use my PW or GW if I need to run the ball up a slope.  

 

 

[Hoyoymac]

Arccos is telling me the opposite.  After some recent changes on the top end of my bag my gaps have tightened with one exception.  My 5 iron is a club that is not being used much now and it has a lot of distance overlap with the 6 iron. Also, I seem to have a gap on the low end of my bag.  Seriously considering going from 4 to 5 wedges to tighten things up and dropping the 5 iron. 

[twyatt700]

Arccos is telling me the opposite.  After some recent changes on the top end of my bag my gaps have tightened with one exception.  My 5 iron is a club that is not being used much now and it has a lot of distance overlap with the 6 iron. Also, I seem to have a gap on the low end of my bag.  Seriously considering going from 4 to 5 wedges to tighten things up and dropping the 5 iron. 

I might be in the same boat. I just frustrated in general with my swing. I’ve been doing the super speed program and now I’m just out of sync. I’m looking forward to going to the fitter then getting a few lesson to help me get this figured out. I got to a 5 with the do it yourself method but now have been regressing a lot in the pursuit of speed and trying to correct my over the top move... i don’t know maybe should just live with the swing that works and forget trying to “fix” my swing.


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[twyatt700]

Arccos is telling me the opposite.  After some recent changes on the top end of my bag my gaps have tightened with one exception.  My 5 iron is a club that is not being used much now and it has a lot of distance overlap with the 6 iron. Also, I seem to have a gap on the low end of my bag.  Seriously considering going from 4 to 5 wedges to tighten things up and dropping the 5 iron. 

That might be my problem too. I don’t really hit my 5 much. Maybe the solution is do the Bryson and bomb it and then just hit wedge in every time!


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[twyatt700]

I have only carried a 56 but was thinking about when I get fit for my next set of irons that I go ahead and get fit for wedges too. Was thinking either 54/58 or 56/60 whatever fit my gaps better. Now I'm questioning whether I need a lob wedge or just keep with the 56. Top of my bag is fine- Dr, 3 wood, 3 Hybrid. Biggest gap is between my 3 hybrid and 3 wood but I rarely face a distance between those clubs on the course.
What do you all typically use out of the sand? 

I honesty don’t know, I think firm. I’m in Oregon so it rains a lot and the sand doesn’t seem fluffy. I have only ever played in Hawaii and Iowa so I don’t have much else to compare too.


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[Middler]

On 7/8/2020 at 6:32 PM, scooterhd2 said:

This is really up to the individual. I personally dont make alot of full shots with a SW or LW so I would not care about gaps too much. 

I basically never take a full swing shot with my 56 or 60, too much bounce on the 56 and too risky (thin) with the 60. I never use my PW (45*) for less than a full swing. So my GW (50*) is my only full and partial swing wedge, and most used. My 60 is used least, almost only when greenside over a trap short sided (highly satisfying when I pull it off, prob only about half the time...). Not a recommendation, just my 2 cents. Mine are all Mizuno, 2 matching iron set.

[twyatt700]

I basically never take a full swing shot with my 56 or 60, too much bounce on the 56 and too risky (thin) with the 60. I never use my PW for less than a full swing. So my GW is my only full and partial swing wedge, and most used. My 60 is used least, almost only when greenside over a trap short sided (highly satisfying when I pull it off, prob only about half the time...). Not a recommendation, just my 2 cents. Mine are all Mizuno, 2 matching iron set.

Same here, I never take the full swing on the 54 and 58, that was my thinking, just go with a 56 and learn than one well!


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[Hoyoymac]

After thinking about this some more, I have come to the conclusion that the lofts of my irons are causing my gap issues. I have Titleist AP3 clubs which I love. Was looking at the loft specs and my 9 iron is 39 degrees, Pitching wedge is 43 degrees and gap wedge is 48 degrees. So really my nine iron is more like a traditional 8 iron and the pitching wedge is more like a nine and the Gap wedge more like a pitching wedge.  My Sand wedge is a Vokey SM7 54 and I have a Vokey SM7 60 degree lob wedge.  Sharpened the grooves on the 54 & 60 wedges a couple of months ago, but it is probably time to replace them soon anyways.

 

When I replace them I will most likely get a set with 52, 56 & 60.  At that time I will drop my 5 iron which is really more like a 4 iron anyways.
 

At some point when it is time for the AP3s to be replaced I might look at a more traditional iron set.

[WaffleHouseTour]

Has anyone been able to get their hands on the SL Cobra MIM Black wedges?  I’ve had mine on order from my courses pro-shop since June 16. After an hour on hold my pro was told it’d be 8-10 business days before they shipped (I wanted them one inch short to match my set and a MMC Grip...). Well, that was 18 business days ago... 

 

I had a horrible experience w Cobra last summer trying to get my irons (again, wanted them an inch short of standard - the temerity of me...) and it took months. 
 

has anyone actually put the MIM black wedges in their bag?  And no one from the MGS Cobra challenge counts... if you were given  my set I don’t want to know about it...

[NM01]

2 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

Has anyone been able to get their hands on the SL Cobra MIM Black wedges?  I’ve had mine on order from my courses pro-shop since June 16. After an hour on hold my pro was told it’d be 8-10 business days before they shipped (I wanted them one inch short to match my set and a MMC Grip...). Well, that was 18 business days ago... 

 

I had a horrible experience w Cobra last summer trying to get my irons (again, wanted them an inch short of standard - the temerity of me...) and it took months. 
 

has anyone actually put the MIM black wedges in their bag?  And no one from the MGS Cobra challenge counts... if you were given  my set I don’t want to know about it...

If Cobra can deliver in less than a month I would be shocked. Most companies were still taking orders during lockdown and have to process all them. With supply chain issues and most places not at 100% capacity I expect everything will have significant delays.

i was on another brands website and few products with no customization were scheduled to ship in August or sept depending on the shaft

[revkev]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 6:54 PM, twyatt700 said:

Same here, I never take the full swing on the 54 and 58, that was my thinking, just go with a 56 and learn than one well!


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I'm sorry that I'm so late to the party on a great thread.  I think it's great that you are making decisions on what clubs to bag based upon the data instead of so called "conventional" wisdom.  The reason why someone would game lots of wedges with even gaps (4 or 5 degrees) is because that's what Dave Pelz told us we should do around 20 years ago.  According to Pelz's method we should learn three different wedge swings and that way we will have all of our gaps covered.  It's sounds logically, the guys a rocket scientist, who would question him?

 

My point and yours now too is that what does it matter if I have all of my yardage gaps covered when I rarely have a shot under 80 yards?  I have lots of chip shots, I have lots of shots from 150-175 but I rarely have one of those all dialed in yardage shots that Pelz would have me spend so much time perfecting in an actual round of golf.  My tracking system proves it!  It  also proves that I'm significantly better when I chip with my 52 degree wedge than my 56 and also that my gapping is perfect with a 5 wood, 7 wood, 9 wood instead of the 3 wood, 4 hybrid, 5 hybrid that I used to bag.  Even though I was pretty good with my 60 degree wedge I ultimately dropped the 56 and put a 58 in so that I go 48,52,58 with my wedges.  My chipping has improved because it's eliminated the mental second guessing that was going on (do I use 52 or 56 here) and I do all of my practicing with fewer clubs now.  Even though I've thrown 3 wood in the bag it's just a place holder, I haven't hit it in months.  I'm seriously considering picking up a cheap very high bounce sand wedge as my 14th clubs as my sand play is so so. 

 

At any rate each of us should look at what we need to game for our own game.  Beyond a doubt we will end up with differing set configurations because we have different swings, different skill sets and play in differing conditions.  Conventional wisdom needs to be backed by real world data. 

[twyatt700]

I'm sorry that I'm so late to the party on a great thread.  I think it's great that you are making decisions on what clubs to bag based upon the data instead of so called "conventional" wisdom.  The reason why someone would game lots of wedges with even gaps (4 or 5 degrees) is because that's what Dave Pelz told us we should do around 20 years ago.  According to Pelz's method we should learn three different wedge swings and that way we will have all of our gaps covered.  It's sounds logically, the guys a rocket scientist, who would question him?
 
My point and yours now too is that what does it matter if I have all of my yardage gaps covered when I rarely have a shot under 80 yards?  I have lots of chip shots, I have lots of shots from 150-175 but I rarely have one of those all dialed in yardage shots that Pelz would have me spend so much time perfecting in an actual round of golf.  My tracking system proves it!  It  also proves that I'm significantly better when I chip with my 52 degree wedge than my 56 and also that my gapping is perfect with a 5 wood, 7 wood, 9 wood instead of the 3 wood, 4 hybrid, 5 hybrid that I used to bag.  Even though I was pretty good with my 60 degree wedge I ultimately dropped the 56 and put a 58 in so that I go 48,52,58 with my wedges.  My chipping has improved because it's eliminated the mental second guessing that was going on (do I use 52 or 56 here) and I do all of my practicing with fewer clubs now.  Even though I've thrown 3 wood in the bag it's just a place holder, I haven't hit it in months.  I'm seriously considering picking up a cheap very high bounce sand wedge as my 14th clubs as my sand play is so so. 
 
At any rate each of us should look at what we need to game for our own game.  Beyond a doubt we will end up with differing set configurations because we have different swings, different skill sets and play in differing conditions.  Conventional wisdom needs to be backed by real world data. 

amen. I went to a fitter yesterday and they seemed put off that I wanted to make these changes. The head guy even was giving me crap that I wanted to split my iron shafts with graphite and steel (I play one length) and lengthen the 4,5,6,7 a half inch. Once they actually helped me try that set up the data showed better gapping and ball flight. I’ve always wondered why more people in the golf industry are so stuck in their conventional “wisdom”.
I got to try the 56 MIM too and was able to make every shot with it, even flop it easily. I’m sold on dropping the lob and just go with the 56.


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[twyatt700]

Has anyone been able to get their hands on the SL Cobra MIM Black wedges?  I’ve had mine on order from my courses pro-shop since June 16. After an hour on hold my pro was told it’d be 8-10 business days before they shipped (I wanted them one inch short to match my set and a MMC Grip...). Well, that was 18 business days ago... 
 
I had a horrible experience w Cobra last summer trying to get my irons (again, wanted them an inch short of standard - the temerity of me...) and it took months. 
 
has anyone actually put the MIM black wedges in their bag?  And no one from the MGS Cobra challenge counts... if you were given  my set I don’t want to know about it...

I just ordered two clubs from cobra via my fitting shop so I’ll let you know in 2-3 weeks if I get them.


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[Hoyoymac]

Just picked up a copy of Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible.  About halfway through the book so far.  He makes a pretty convincing case for having more clubs on the short side of the bag to deal with shots under 100 yards.  His Putting Bible has really helped me.

His different swing method for wedges is probably something that I’ve informally been doing for a while. For the rest of the year I’m going to work on this to really tackle the in between yardages.  
 

Having access to club data through tools like Arccos, Shotscope or launch monitors is eye opening for improving one’s game.

[twyatt700]

Just picked up a copy of Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible.  About halfway through the book so far.  He makes a pretty convincing case for having more clubs on the short side of the bag to deal with shots under 100 yards.  His Putting Bible has really helped me.
His different swing method for wedges is probably something that I’ve informally been doing for a while. For the rest of the year I’m going to work on this to really tackle the in between yardages.  
 
Having access to club data through tools like Arccos, Shotscope or launch monitors is eye opening for improving one’s game.

I agree, I thinking I’ll add a 60 degree again later, but for now I want to try to master using just a 56. I still have a PW and gap in the bag. I’ll try this for a while and see if my approach improves any. Cause right now it’s really bad!


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