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NPG Episode 44: Top 5 Golf Equipment Myths

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TIMELINE:

1:55 - Top 5 Equipment Myths
2:09 - #1 Newer is Better
10:51 - #2 Longer is Better
18:01 - #3 Cast vs. Milled Putters
19:38 - #4 Indian, not the Arrow
23:50 - #5 Getting fit? Good Luck!
32:19 - BEST DRIVERS OF 2020 (Swing Speed)
33:41 - TourStats (New Feature)
41:46 - Member Testing with ExPutt

📺 Watch NPG:

🔊 Listen to NPG:

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:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero, 9°, Aldila Rogue White 80 X
:taylormade-small: M4 3HL 16.5°, Atmos Red 60
:cobra-small: F6 5-6W, 19.5°, Fujikura Motore 6.3
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX 20°, Project X HZRDUS 85 5.5
Currently testing: :Sub70: 699 Pro, Modus3 105, 5–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:cleveland-small: RTX-3 CB 54° and 60°
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Great podcast! I had a thought about:

5. Getting Fit? Good Luck!

I started playing 5-6 years ago (at 27) and struggled mightily with irons the first 3-4. I had 3 “equipment evals” / fittings in those first 4 years for IRONS and I was fit into:

(1) 2 up 70g graphite GI head (when I had a 4 knuckle showing strong grip to control a slice), then

(2) 2 flat 105g steel (when I changed my grip and plane after a few lessons and ended up 6-8* in to out trying to work on it myself), then finally,

(3) standard lie, 0.5” short 120g steel when I finally figured my path and release out. Irons are now the best part of my game (5 dynamic hcp approach on arccos).

Hindsight being what it is, I think I would’ve been better served starting with whatever the wrist to floor chart prescribed (which is basically what I play now) and spending the money spent on fittings on group clinics and lessons instead?

In this case, I don’t blame the fitter for giving me clubs that fit my busted swing each year, but I think fitting the clubs to my busted swing made the swing faults I was working through stickier than they needed to be. I also think I’m not a typical new golfer, and the fitter saw me as a hack in his late 20s, instead of a brand new player.

It makes me wonder what would’ve happened if I would’ve played standard clubs all throughout? Would I have figured it out faster? Would I have gotten frustrated and quit the game?

An old 1980s dynacraft fitting manual I came across said to always fit new/developing players into equipment they should grow into (flex and lie). I understand the comment about how crazy it is to tell your kid to “learn how to run in an an adult pair of Nikes” - but, I think fitting every new player isn’t the right answer either. Part of the fitting should be considering where a player is in learning the game, what they are working to fix, and where they want to go? 

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“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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On 7/5/2020 at 10:26 AM, Grit Golf said:

Great podcast! I had a thought about:

5. Getting Fit? Good Luck!

I started playing 5-6 years ago (at 27) and struggled mightily with irons the first 3-4. I had 3 “equipment evals” / fittings in those first 4 years for IRONS and I was fit into:

(1) 2 up 70g graphite GI head (when I had a 4 knuckle showing strong grip to control a slice), then

(2) 2 flat 105g steel (when I changed my grip and plane after a few lessons and ended up 6-8* in to out trying to work on it myself), then finally,

(3) standard lie, 0.5” short 120g steel when I finally figured my path and release out. Irons are now the best part of my game (5 dynamic hcp approach on arccos).

Hindsight being what it is, I think I would’ve been better served starting with whatever the wrist to floor chart prescribed (which is basically what I play now) and spending the money spent on fittings on group clinics and lessons instead?

In this case, I don’t blame the fitter for giving me clubs that fit my busted swing each year, but I think fitting the clubs to my busted swing made the swing faults I was working through stickier than they needed to be. I also think I’m not a typical new golfer, and the fitter saw me as a hack in his late 20s, instead of a brand new player.

It makes me wonder what would’ve happened if I would’ve played standard clubs all throughout? Would I have figured it out faster? Would I have gotten frustrated and quit the game?

An old 1980s dynacraft fitting manual I came across said to always fit new/developing players into equipment they should grow into (flex and lie). I understand the comment about how crazy it is to tell your kid to “learn how to run in an an adult pair of Nikes” - but, I think fitting every new player isn’t the right answer either. Part of the fitting should be considering where a player is in learning the game, what they are working to fix, and where they want to go? 

Agreed, it was a great podcast.

I particularly enjoyed the fitting discussion as well, especially the notion of fitters really being equal parts salesman and therefore vested in fitting you into their stuff, even if they know that perhaps another OEM has a better product for them.  Reminds me of a Callaway demo day I went to a few years ago...was hitting the Rogue and after several shaft and head combinations, the fitter put my Epic back in my hands and said "I don't think we can do better for you than what you came with."  I was VERY impressed to say the least; makes you wonder how often a fitter is really willing to do that.

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Currently testing the Honma TR20 460 driver!

Driver: :callaway-small:Great Big Bertha Epic, 10.5, Project X HZRDOUS 55g Stiff

FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrid::tour-edge:CBX 119 3H, 18, Project X Evenflow Blue 85g Stiff

Driving Iron: :mizuno-small: MP-20 HMB 3i, UST Mamiya recoil ES 780 F3

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 4- GW, Project X 6.0

Wedges::vokey-small:SM7 54 S Grind, 58 M Grind

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: California Monterey 1.5, Superstroke Flatso 1.0 grip

:SuperSpeed:

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1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Agreed, it was a great podcast.

I particularly enjoyed the fitting discussion as well, especially the notion of fitters really being equal parts salesman and therefore vested in fitting you into their stuff, even if they know that perhaps another OEM has a better product for them.  Reminds me of a Callaway demo day I went to a few years ago...was hitting the Rogue and after several shaft and head combinations, the fitter put my Epic back in my hands and said "I don't think we can do better for you than what you came with."  I was VERY impressed to say the least; makes you wonder how often a fitter is really willing to do that.

They are definitely salesmen to an extent. Depends a lot on the business model. The OEM reps are going to do their best to sell you on their product and the good/honest ones will do like the one you went to and tell you if something was or wasn’t better. For anyone not looking at a specific brand imo should go to a fitter that has a brand agnostic shop and isn’t on staff with any of the brands.

If looking for a specific brand find the rep for that brand either at a demo day with a schedule of slots to be fit, a shop that specializes in that brand or tell the fitter you want a specific brand and work towards finding the best setup

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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@Getoffmylawn

That's a really great story! Callaway FTW! I think some brand reps are considering the "long game", even if they are commissioned. What I mean is, they know that if they are honest with you and if they look out for what will help you play your best (instead of pushing whatever they have this release cycle) they can earn a customer for life. Having someone come to the demo day every year, even if they only end up taking home 1 thing from each demo day, has gotta be incredibly valuable. I know in our business we do whatever we can to earn and retain customers because lifetime value is the metric that matters to us, I imagine its the same to some degree with golf.


“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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7 minutes ago, Grit Golf said:

@Getoffmylawn

That's a really great story! Callaway FTW! I think some brand reps are considering the "long game", even if they are commissioned. What I mean is, they know that if they are honest with you and if they look out for what will help you play your best (instead of pushing whatever they have this release cycle) they can earn a customer for life. Having someone come to the demo day every year, even if they only end up taking home 1 thing from each demo day, has gotta be incredibly valuable. I know in our business we do whatever we can to earn and retain customers because lifetime value is the metric that matters to us, I imagine its the same to some degree with golf.

Callaway FTW is an interesting reaction, honestly.  I was more impressed with the individual than I was the company.  

Don't get me wrong, I do generally like Callaway, but I'm very soon going to have zero Callaway clubs in my bag when I had 3 about a year ago.  At the end of the day, I'm going to be about a product and does it perform far more than brand loyalty.  

I will admit I'll continual to be partial to their stuff, but right now throughout the bag, they don't offer what works best for me.

  • Like 1

Currently testing the Honma TR20 460 driver!

Driver: :callaway-small:Great Big Bertha Epic, 10.5, Project X HZRDOUS 55g Stiff

FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrid::tour-edge:CBX 119 3H, 18, Project X Evenflow Blue 85g Stiff

Driving Iron: :mizuno-small: MP-20 HMB 3i, UST Mamiya recoil ES 780 F3

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 4- GW, Project X 6.0

Wedges::vokey-small:SM7 54 S Grind, 58 M Grind

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: California Monterey 1.5, Superstroke Flatso 1.0 grip

:SuperSpeed:

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I thought that was a pretty good piece, too.

On getting fit, I think there has been a relatively recent trend about fitting that has ignored what fitting used to be much more about, namely Basic Fitting 101. By this I mean getting a decent ballpark fit and adjustment for length & lie with the player's existing clubs. Nothing else is changed, no equipment is swapped out or purchased (ok, maybe grips, if they are really worn or clearly the wrong size).

This should be a basic service that any golf shop should be able to offer and can go a long ways in getting the equipment to be reasonably suitable for the player to progress with their game. But today, "fitting" is too often associated with buying and selling of shiny new shafts and clubheads. Nothing wrong with that, really, but that sort of fitting is analogous to a new car dealership, when what is really needed are more neighborhood, independent mechanics.

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On 7/7/2020 at 3:33 PM, TeeBrain said:

But today, "fitting" is too often associated with buying and selling of shiny new shafts and clubheads. Nothing wrong with that, really, but that sort of fitting is analogous to a new car dealership, when what is really needed are more neighborhood, independent mechanics.

I love this ^. Really well said.


“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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On 7/7/2020 at 3:33 PM, TeeBrain said:

I thought that was a pretty good piece, too.

On getting fit, I think there has been a relatively recent trend about fitting that has ignored what fitting used to be much more about, namely Basic Fitting 101. By this I mean getting a decent ballpark fit and adjustment for length & lie with the player's existing clubs. Nothing else is changed, no equipment is swapped out or purchased (ok, maybe grips, if they are really worn or clearly the wrong size).

This should be a basic service that any golf shop should be able to offer and can go a long ways in getting the equipment to be reasonably suitable for the player to progress with their game. But today, "fitting" is too often associated with buying and selling of shiny new shafts and clubheads. Nothing wrong with that, really, but that sort of fitting is analogous to a new car dealership, when what is really needed are more neighborhood, independent mechanics.

I could easily walk into the shop at my range and talk with the fitter and pay him to “fit” my current set to get lie angle back to where it needs to be after months of use and then have them bent. I’m pretty sure any fitter will do that for anyone willing to pay for the “fitting”

When it comes to new clubs and buying the fitting is to get the new setup right and optimized. When I had my p790s I could have easily just went with the shaft I was using in my current set and played well. When we got on the launch monitor and looked at the numbers I was sacrificing consistency in distance due to ball spin. We swapped shafts and got spin to a more optimized range and the consistency from strike to strike was much better.  
 

When I did my titleist Thursday for the 917 driver. After a out 10 swings we got the right head and loft. We then spent the next 30 mins or so dialing in the numbers with shaft and hosel adjustments. We had things narrow down to two shafts. Both produced good numbers but one allowed me to swing with my normal tempo while the other there were times where I felt like I had to go at it a bit. After we got it narrowed down to the two shafts and the fitter wanted to know my thoughts I told him how I felt about the two shafts. When I told him how I felt he said I saw the same thing in your swing but didn’t want to say anything til the end to avoid any influence.

Fitting has lots of aspects and it’s not about buying and selling but rather before buying make sure one gets the the right setup. There’s plenty of stories from users here and other forums and groups that after a fitting their current setup was the better option and also stories of fitters telling them that they couldn’t beat the current setup.

Golf clubs are now different than any other consumer product and people don’t always need to buy new but they want to do they do and there zero wrong with wanting new and shiny just like there’s nothing wrong with those who prefer to keep a product and maintain it until it runs it course and needs to be replaced

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 7/3/2020 at 2:28 PM, GolfSpy MPR said:
TIMELINE:

1:55 - Top 5 Equipment Myths
2:09 - #1 Newer is Better
10:51 - #2 Longer is Better
18:01 - #3 Cast vs. Milled Putters
19:38 - #4 Indian, not the Arrow
23:50 - #5 Getting fit? Good Luck!
32:19 - BEST DRIVERS OF 2020 (Swing Speed)
33:41 - TourStats (New Feature)
41:46 - Member Testing with ExPutt

📺 Watch NPG:

🔊 Listen to NPG:

Where is the TourStats article they mention?

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Driver: :honma: TR20 460, :Fuji: Ventus Black 70X

Fwy: :titelist-small: TS3, 15*, Veylix Rome 888 X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :srixon-small: Z585 4/5 iron, Z785 6-PW, :Nippon:Modus 120X

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Platinum M5 HT Mallet, 36"

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12 hours ago, PMookie said:

Where is the TourStats article they mention?

On the main MGS HQ page, below the podcast menu...

https://mygolfspy.com/tour-stats-do-playing-partners-matter/

 

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Currently testing the Honma TR20 460 driver!

Driver: :callaway-small:Great Big Bertha Epic, 10.5, Project X HZRDOUS 55g Stiff

FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrid::tour-edge:CBX 119 3H, 18, Project X Evenflow Blue 85g Stiff

Driving Iron: :mizuno-small: MP-20 HMB 3i, UST Mamiya recoil ES 780 F3

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 4- GW, Project X 6.0

Wedges::vokey-small:SM7 54 S Grind, 58 M Grind

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: California Monterey 1.5, Superstroke Flatso 1.0 grip

:SuperSpeed:

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The fitting issue is real......and who wants to get fit by someone at  PGA SS who is a 30+ HDCP?  If you have a good club pro in your area who can fit you ON GRASS, take advantage of that...but just be aware the cost.

also, what fitter will attempt to fit you into 4 different brands? hardly any

I also feel fitting is ok, but not as great as everyone makes it seem....if you have the slightest swing change or if your swing is inconsistent in any manner, the "fit" does not makes sense.....IMO i think TRUE fitting should be done if you are a 5 or below....other than that, you should play the type of club that helps you the most as in...if you are a 15+, forget blades.....

"fitting" is the most overused term in the industry right now....even with golf balls....how many guys do you see who have been "fit" for Tigers ball??? That ball was designed for HIM, based on HIS swing....not anyone else's......but 1000's of golfers swear HIS ball works the best for them.....its all crazy...

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29 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

 

The fitting issue is real......and who wants to get fit by someone at  PGA SS who is a 30+ HDCP?  If you have a good club pro in your area who can fit you ON GRASS, take advantage of that...but just be aware the cost.

also, what fitter will attempt to fit you into 4 different brands? hardly a

 

If you pay for the tour van fitting experience that person isn’t a 30+ hdcp

if you go to a CC, Truspec, TXG or local non oem affiliated fitter and you are open to any brand they will have you test multiple heads to find the right fit and then find the shaft that fits best with that head or in the case of some CC places they will find the shaft first and then find the best head for that shaft and your swing

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Interesting discussion on the longer is better.  Listen to Chris Nickels and Tony's comments about the break even point between a shorter drive in the fairway and a longer drive in the ruff.  The tour data suggests one needs to be ~60 yards longer to have the same chance at scoring well on the given hole.  Perhaps Bryson team looked into this and decided that if you're going to focus on changes to be the distance king, you better get at least that much gain over the field average.


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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:ping-small: G410 Irons 4-UW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:ping-small: B61 Putter

 

 

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cool, a lot of unique new to me,
I actually do not have much experience, I am a beginner in this difficult matter 🙃🤫

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