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Approach to Improving Putting?


Grit Golf

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13 hours ago, cnosil said:


Good points. I would assume that it takes putt distance into consideration but for long term improvement it is beneficial to see actual numbers. For example if you may struggle from. 20-30 feet but if you only have putts shorter or longer and you get a good SG number you wouldn’t know that you need to work on that range of putts.

It definitely takes putt distance into consideration for SG/Putting handicap.  I'd love to see SG/handicap by distance so I could see if I'm objectively worse at some point.

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On 7/9/2020 at 1:20 PM, cnosil said:

Here are my thoughts:

1.  You have just started,  don't beat yourself up.  Work through choices that help you putt better.  

2. When you are saying no pattern to the misses,  that to me means you are compensating for misses and maybe trying to steer the ball through the gates.  I wouldn't expect gross misses;  we are looking at less than a degree between the various gates.    This is why an 8' putt is the 50% mark for those that play for money on TV.  

3. You asked about path,  but I would say focus on face angle.  In putting, the putters face angle is responsible for about 85% of the balls direction; path is responsible for the other.  Based on the percentages that you posted,   you probably have face angle issues and not path.   You may want to build a putting station to ensure your setup is correct.   Use 2 sleeves of balls that are slightly wider apart that the width of your putter.   You can make them as close or as far apart as you want to control margin of error.  Put the ball in the middle and putt the ball down the ruler or through the gates.  If the putter doesn't hit the sleeves,  your path is ok.  Put some marks to show foot and ball position to ensure consistent setup.   

4.  You can do some experimentation on what works best for you.  Try a shoulder driven stroke,  a right arm powered stroke,  left arm powered stroke,   or arms with little shoulders.   Maybe try left hand low, claw, etc.  

5.  SAM is a great tool to understand what is going on but working on putting through the gates will probably be just as effective. 

Keep practicing and your numbers will get better.   Once you become more consistent with the gates,  you green reading should start to improve since you will be more consistent in starting your ball on your intended line.  

 

This is great advice.  When I was in the middle of my 10,000 putts last winter I was having similar issues.  I found that trying to reduce the number of variables (work on one change at a time) was very helpful.  In particular the shortening of the back stroke was instrumental in getting face angle under better control.  As cnosil said..you have just started and not beating yourself up is very important.  If you keep at it you will see improvement..it is slower than you expect, but it will happen.

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For anyone following along, I used arccos to determine my putting sucked. A few sages in the community schooled me on the value of face control and starting the ball on the right line as one skill to work on.

Before starting, my arccos putting handicap was 25.7.

After working on it for about a week (with some pro help along the way) this is what I posted:

96EE11C2-F3D5-4F30-BCFC-8CE29710FB19.jpeg.7711eca7c9a912d12562a71c598b8da0.jpeg
 

That’s pretty encouraging! I got more than my fair share to drop today, and need to keep working on it, but to be perfectly clear, starting the ball on the line is a specific skill and if you’ve never actually focused on that specific skill, you are almost certainly leaving strokes on the table. I DEFINITELY was. This is the best round of my life and this is the easiest way I’ve ever hacked strokes off my game by a very large margin!

Now, where’s that coupon code for ExPutt?!

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On 7/12/2020 at 8:13 AM, wesmith4 said:

Does anyone use one putter strictly for practice / working on these fundamental techniques, and another more premium putter for your game?

I do but simply because I'm lazy! 😄 I leave my gamer putter in my bag, which is usually in my car, and have two others (which are, say, backup gamers and not inferior putters) in the basement where I have the practice mat.

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4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
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At the end of last year I set as a goal to improve my golf game and lower my handicap from an 8 to a 5. 

Even though I was a good putter I started there because it represents about 40% or more of my strokes per round.

I got a copy of Dave Pelz’s Putting Bible, I set up an indoor practice area complete with putting mat, putting mirror and gates, Putt Out trainer and started going through the drills in the book.  It has made a difference.

I got my GHIN briefly to 5.5. Now at 6.6

I’ve also started on Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible.  Making changes to my bag set up, dropping some clubs, adding a wedge.  Will focus on the under 100 yard shots for the next few months.

Also tweaking my driver with a heavier, shorter and slightly stiffer shaft to gain some accuracy and better center contact.

These three areas comprise the bulk of my shots on the course and that is why I’m focusing on them for the quickest gains.

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The 2 ft long 2 in wide ruler has helped me immensely: start line has always been my issue. I forgot who mentioned it 1st in this thread but I went straight to Home Depot after work that day and picked one up, put it on my skilz mat and started practicing. It was much harder than I anticipated, and that was my 1st indication that I wasn’t as solid of a putter as I like to think I am! Great training aid!

 

 

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On 7/17/2020 at 10:57 PM, Hoyoymac said:

At the end of last year I set as a goal to improve my golf game and lower my handicap from an 8 to a 5. 

Even though I was a good putter I started there because it represents about 40% or more of my strokes per round.

I'll never suggest that putting isn't an important part of the game, but this statistic overestimates its importance.  As a 6 handicap, you probably average about 80, and 32 putts (40%) is a pretty realistic number.  But in 18 holes, how many of those putts are 3 feet or less, maybe 12 or so?  If you're a good putter, you make just about all of those, so you can't improve them.  So that leaves 20 putts, or 25% of your total score.  How many of those are between 15 and 25 feet, in the range where you will almost never 3-putt, but almost never will sink it?  Your percentages won't change appreciably there either.  The places you can improve putting substantially are those where 3-putt avoidance can happen (25 or 30 feet and out), and 1-putt performance can improve, usually 3 to 12 feet or so, and that may be only 5 to 10 opportunities per round.  Again, I'm not saying don't work on putting, I'm saying that there's a very finite limit to how many strokes you can save by improving your putting.  And I'm talking about the  "generic you", not about @Hoyoymac specifically.

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I'll never suggest that putting isn't an important part of the game, but this statistic overestimates its importance.  As a 6 handicap, you probably average about 80, and 32 putts (40%) is a pretty realistic number.  But in 18 holes, how many of those putts are 3 feet or less, maybe 12 or so?  If you're a good putter, you make just about all of those, so you can't improve them.  So that leaves 20 putts, or 25% of your total score.  How many of those are between 15 and 25 feet, in the range where you will almost never 3-putt, but almost never will sink it?  Your percentages won't change appreciably there either.  The places you can improve putting substantially are those where 3-putt avoidance can happen (25 or 30 feet and out), and 1-putt performance can improve, usually 3 to 12 feet or so, and that may be only 5 to 10 opportunities per round.  Again, I'm not saying don't work on putting, I'm saying that there's a very finite limit to how many strokes you can save by improving your putting.  And I'm talking about the  "generic you", not about [mention=81740]Hoyoymac[/mention] specifically.

Agreed: it’s amazing how hitting more greens and hitting closer to the flag makes you a better putter.


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Driver - Cobra LtDxLS

3 Wood - Ping g410 LST

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Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV

 

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Biggest help for me.....Unconscious Putting by Dave Stockton.  Really helped my "paralysis by analysis" problem when it comes to putting.

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Speaking of paralysis by analysis, here is one thing that helped me to find a more natural, comfortable stroke.  I got the idea from Fred Shoemaker's "Extraordinary Putting."

 

I have the Puttout mat and Pressure Putt Trainer.  I put the fold down part on the pressure trainer up so it fills the hole in the trainer.  Any putt that hits the trainer rolls back down the mat.  Starting about two feet from the trainer, I would roll putts into the trainer.  When they would roll back, I would putt them before they stopped rolling.  I made it a game to see how many I times I could repeat before missing the hole.  I didn't have time to think at all, just react to the ball coming toward me down the mat.  It didn't take long to find a freer flowing motion and a more comfortable stance.  

 

 

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On 7/4/2020 at 7:13 PM, Grit Golf said:

What’s the best way to evaluate and improve putting?

Lessons? Fitting? Practice aids/greens?


What’s worked for those of you who have turned putting from a weakness to a strength?

2x11 Pro Putt practice mat.  60" ruler, 2" wide.  It's a $15 face angle monitor which provides instant feedback.

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On 7/21/2020 at 1:05 PM, DaveP043 said:

The places you can improve putting substantially are those where 3-putt avoidance can happen (25 or 30 feet and out), and 1-putt performance can improve, usually 3 to 12 feet or so, and that may be only 5 to 10 opportunities per round.

Totally agree! I've been working a lot on the second part - ie. try to increase my % of makes in that 3-12 range; for the long lag putts I'm hoping the ExPutt can help me with that.

(..shameless plug...) Follow the ExPutt testers as they each explore the product's features and try to answer the big question: Will it really help improve my putting?

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/39526-2020-official-member-review-exputt-putting-simulator/page/1/#comments

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Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
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On 7/8/2020 at 1:20 PM, BMart519 said:

Adding 10 mph club head speed will probably net you more strokes gained than any amount of putting practice and technically you would never have to touch a club or go to the course

I was just thinking about this.  I recently decided to keep my SG putting stats because it's the primary place where I can compare myself to tour pros on an apples to apples basis.  Tee to green, the comparison is apples to go carts.

I record my start distance on the green -- length of first putt -- and number of putts it takes me to get down.

After a half dozen rounds, I'm losing 0.15 strokes per round to tour pros on the green.  Virtually the entire difference between me and the tour pro is tee to green.  Distance (i.e. clubhead speed) and chipping/sand play are the main culprits.

So while I work on putting, I am not stressed about it.  Even if I started putting poorly, I can't imagine it costing me more than 2-3 shots a round vs. the pros.  

That said, I've played with some terrible putters who are easily dumping 6-7 shots a round on the green.  These players should definitely invest in putting better (lessons, analysis, practice, equipment upgrade).

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Just now, CougarRed said:

I was just thinking about this.  I recently decided to keep my SG putting stats because it's the primary place where I can compare myself to tour pros on an apples to apples basis.  Tee to green, the comparison is apples to go carts.

I record my start distance on the green -- length of first putt -- and number of putts it takes me to get down.

After a half dozen rounds, I'm losing 0.15 strokes per round to tour pros on the green.  Virtually the entire difference between me and the tour pro is tee to green.  Distance (i.e. clubhead speed) and chipping/sand play are the main culprits.

So while I work on putting, I am not stressed about it.  Even if I started putting poorly, I can't imagine it costing me more than 2-3 shots a round vs. the pros.  

That said, I've played with some terrible putters who are easily dumping 6-7 shots a round on the green.  These players should definitely invest in putting better (lessons, analysis, practice, equipment upgrade).

This makes great sense to me.  I've read that the "typical" difference between handicap levels attributable to putting is about 20% of the total.  If you look at a pro as being a +6, and you're a 7, there is about a 13 stroke difference, so putting would be about 2 or 3 strokes.  As you say, you're close to pro level only losing 0.15 per round, you're well better than the norm for your handicap level, so the place you can improve the most is something other than putting.

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Putting is one area of the game that amateurs can equal a pros performance. We should strive to never miss inside if 3 feet, maximize opportunities between 3 and 15 feet, and never be outside a 6 foot diameter circle for anything outside of that. If you can accomplish those things you WILL gain strokes

I’ve seen this video a couple of times but shows that being short of the hole isn’t bad, even pros don’t really state facts, and they gain and lose stroke putting.

When comparing SG numbers, the farther you are from the hole the “easier” it is to gain strokes. From 1” no one will likely ever gain anything. From 10’ you might gain a small amount. If
You are 450 yards away and can out drive you opponent by 100 yards the SG potential is huge.

Basically, you can’t neglect any area of you game, but you can easily lose strokes on the green with poor putting. I would suggest forgetting about SG for putting and working on speed control and startline to ensure you do no worse than 2 putt on any green.

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19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Basically, you can’t neglect any area of you game, but you can easily lose strokes on the green with poor putting. I would suggest forgetting about SG for putting and working on speed control and startline to ensure you do no worse than 2 putt on any green.

To me, looking at Strokes Gained, in general, is valuable in determining where the weakest parts of your game are.  The difficulty is that keeping enough data to get good SG numbers from tee to green is pretty onerous, without something like Arcos or other shot-tracking system.  SG putting is relatively easy to get, all you need is to pace off the distance to the hole for your first putt, and record the number of putts.  Average SG (Strokes Lost for most of us) putting over a moderate number of rounds, and compare it to (Handicap +6) x 0.2.  If you're losing a lot more than that number, putting is a relative weakness.  If you're under that number, your putting is good for your relative skill level, you should spend most of your time working on something else..

So I wouldn't tell someone to forget SG putting, just that SG putting doesn't tell the entire story.  As you say, to improve putting a player should work on the physical aspects, speed control and startline.  Once that is moderately controlled, a player can refine green reading skills.

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To me, looking at Strokes Gained, in general, is valuable in determining where the weakest parts of your game are.  The difficulty is that keeping enough data to get good SG numbers from tee to green is pretty onerous, without something like Arcos or other shot-tracking system.  SG putting is relatively easy to get, all you need is to pace off the distance to the hole for your first putt, and record the number of putts.  Average SG (Strokes Lost for most of us) putting over a moderate number of rounds, and compare it to (Handicap +6) x 0.2.  If you're losing a lot more than that number, putting is a relative weakness.  If you're under that number, your putting is good for your relative skill level, you should spend most of your time working on something else..

So I wouldn't tell someone to forget SG putting, just that SG putting doesn't tell the entire story.  As you say, to improve putting a player should work on the physical aspects, speed control and startline.  Once that is moderately controlled, a player can refine green reading skills.

You are correct, calculating it for putting Isn’t that difficult and my saying to forget about it was probably too extreme. What it does provide is realism to the data. To many people think they should make all their 10’ putts and claim they are terrible putters.

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On 7/4/2020 at 7:13 PM, Grit Golf said:

What’s the best way to evaluate and improve putting?

Lessons? Fitting? Practice aids/greens?


What’s worked for those of you who have turned putting from a weakness to a strength?

Aids and practice worked for me. The most important thing to practice IMO is distance control. If you're constantly 3-jacking then it's probably because your first putt (from whatever distance it was) simply was not close enough - you either run it by with too much pace or leave it 5' short. For some, that might require a focus on technique and perhaps a change in putter, but pretty much anyone can improve distance control regardless of equipment or current skill set.

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4 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Totally agree! I've been working a lot on the second part - ie. try to increase my % of makes in that 3-12 range; for the long lag putts I'm hoping the ExPutt can help me with that.

(..shameless plug...) Follow the ExPutt testers as they each explore the product's features and try to answer the big question: Will it really help improve my putting?

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/39526-2020-official-member-review-exputt-putting-simulator/page/1/#comments

Admittedly, I do not know all of the features of the ExPutt. But, I don't think indoor practice will help much with lag putting other than face angle control and working on a consistent contact point on the putter face. I putt 25' down the hallway carpet (probably plays around 40'+ due to the speed) to various targets and practice the ladder drill, but the golf ball launches different on carpet versus grass. 

The impact of grain, uphill/downhill, and break on long putts requires practice and calibration on the green. Not to mention visually seeing the putt versus rolling the ball straight towards a monitor a few feet in front of you. A virtual ladder drill should help distance control, but again, limited application to the real world. 

Best use of indoor time at home is start line - both face angle and aim. 

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1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

Admittedly, I do not know all of the features of the ExPutt. But, I don't think indoor practice will help much with lag putting other than face angle control and working on a consistent contact point on the putter face. I putt 25' down the hallway carpet (probably plays around 40'+ due to the speed) to various targets and practice the ladder drill, but the golf ball launches different on carpet versus grass. 

The impact of grain, uphill/downhill, and break on long putts requires practice and calibration on the green. Not to mention visually seeing the putt versus rolling the ball straight towards a monitor a few feet in front of you. A virtual ladder drill should help distance control, but again, limited application to the real world. 

Best use of indoor time at home is start line - both face angle and aim. 

Those are all good points about real practice, but unfortunately I don't have convenient access to a good .. and large .. practice green.

So I'm hoping that the ExPutt's simulation is a good-enough substitute... Plus its main data capture/display includes putter path, impact angle and launch direction.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Admittedly, I do not know all of the features of the ExPutt. But, I don't think indoor practice will help much with lag putting other than face angle control and working on a consistent contact point on the putter face. I putt 25' down the hallway carpet (probably plays around 40'+ due to the speed) to various targets and practice the ladder drill, but the golf ball launches different on carpet versus grass. 

The impact of grain, uphill/downhill, and break on long putts requires practice and calibration on the green. Not to mention visually seeing the putt versus rolling the ball straight towards a monitor a few feet in front of you. A virtual ladder drill should help distance control, but again, limited application to the real world. 

Best use of indoor time at home is start line - both face angle and aim. 

You have some valid points, but that is also why we are testing the system.  Yes,  you have to calibrate yourself to a green prior to playing but that calibration is typically done on flat putts against a known baseline.  

Given the right tools,  I think people underestimate the value of indoor training and claim that practice must be done outdoors.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

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Link didn’t work for me. I posted this somewhere else on here yesterday. even though a pro says I did X; it may not be what he actually did.   

 

 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

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According to my Arccos caddie dashboard, my putting handicap is a +3.6 now and my chipping handicap is a 2.7.

Improving my putting in the last few months was by far the quickest way to gain one stroke per round.  Chipping it closer has probably gained me another one stroke per round.

At the moment my worst handicap is my driving followed by my approach shots.  That is why I’m making some changes to my bag makeup and tweaking my driver.  Having one bad drive that results in a lost ball or an unplayable lie is becoming unacceptable.  It is too costly.

Dave Pelz says if you can drive, chip and putt you can score.

When I retired 7 years ago my handicap was 28.  I was lucky to play 20 rounds a year when I was working, now I’m playing three or more times a week.  Immediately after retiring the thing that helped me the most was just playing more.  I was able to drop my handicap from a 28 to a 14 in the first two years.  My distance has increased and my awareness of where the bottom of my swing is has improved greatly.  

Playing more, taking a few lessons and getting fitted for new clubs helped me to get from a 14 to an 8.  

Going from an 8 to a 5 is harder because there is less room for error.  You can’t make as many mistakes.  Fine tuning your clubs and your bag make up, practicing with a purpose on those areas that are weaker and leveraging the strengths in your game become more important.

Finally, the other thing that has helped me a bunch is playing with better players.

 

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On 7/23/2020 at 11:30 AM, DaveP043 said:

SG putting is relatively easy to get, all you need is to pace off the distance to the hole for your first putt, and record the number of putts.  Average SG (Strokes Lost for most of us) putting over a moderate number of rounds, and compare it to (Handicap +6) x 0.2.  If you're losing a lot more than that number, putting is a relative weakness.  If you're under that number, your putting is good for your relative skill level, you should spend most of your time working on something else...

Here's my Strokes Gained Putting example spreadsheet.  Feel free to make to make a copy for yourself.  To add a round, copy cells A1-D20, past them below, and edit the inputs.  Just need the starting distance in feet, and the number of putts to hole out.  The cumulative stats are generated automatically.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nR2p-BDGMjrWkLxV13mX2HKJ8w7KpxB3qeeM9ZnMIYU/edit?usp=sharing

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm pumped to go out and buy a 4' ruler to work on my putting and see how it goes.  I'm tired of sucking at putting and averaging 30+ putts a round.

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FW Wood:  Titleist  3, 15*, DIamana 70G Stiff ; 5 extended, Golf Pride MCC Align Grip

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Most people I’ve played with consider me to be an above average putter and I have a couple of drills that I do anytime I practice.

1. Is a standard for most pros the “around the world” drill...try to find a fairly flat spot on the practice green and put 4 balls around the hole at 2 feet....make all 4 then put them at 3 feet...make all 4 and move to 4 feet....if you miss any you start over at 2 feet.

I go until I make all 4 at 5 feet then I move to drill #2

2. I some colored heavy string and tied 15 feet between 2 pieces of a thin fiberglass rod (driveway marker from Home Depot cut into 15 inch pieces and sharpened). I hind a flat spot on the green and stick the fiberglass rods into the green with the string pulled tight.

I plans my ball under the string lining up my Sharpie line with the string and then make puts from 5-10-15 feet trying to keep the line on the ball rolling under the string and have the ball barely hit the rod at the far end.

This drill works on distance control and starting the ball online.

3. I find a hole with a significant break and I try to visualize the aiming point for the putt then I build a “gate” with tees about 2 feet in front of the ball and I try and putt the ball through the gate and into the cup. This is my favorite drill because I’m a “spot” putter...on the course I look for a spot on the green to roll the ball over...especially on long putts. I find this helps eliminates 3 putts. As of yesterday I have gone 64 holes since my last 3 putt.

Hope these help


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The biggest putting difference I've ever seen is figuring out how to best see the line, and develop a stance and stroke that allows you to naturally roll the ball on that line.

I putted extremely well when younger putting almost entirely by feel.  Had the ball far up in my stance, off the front foot and used an old, short 8802 toe hang putter with my arms fully extended.  I got away from that for 20 years listening to the "experts" about how ball should be directly under your eyes, straight back-straight thru shoulder rocking stroke, use the line on ball, etc.  Big mistake.  I made lots of 3-5 footers, but made way fewer long putts and often struggled with distance control and more 3 putts than I ever had.

When I got back to that old putter and actually being able to see the line and roll it pure I putted SO much better.  Bottom line is find a way to let the natural inner athlete out and forget about all the technical stuff and mimicking most of the guys on TV.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/6/2020 at 11:54 AM, Grit Golf said:

SO - the ruler "test" is pretty revealing... It now makes complete sense why I miss almost all of my birdie putts.

I have a 2" wide x 48" club fitting ruler, and it's a real challenge to get from one end to the other without spilling off the side. This seems like a very sound place to start.

I'm guessing the ExPutt sim will smack you in the face with the same reality, just delivered in a prettier, more high tech way :). It'll be interesting to follow along w the forum reviewers on that one.

The X-Putt will give you loads of the same information.  I have one that I have been using for a couple of months and find the face angle and path information to be very helpful.  IMHO you start with a two inch ruler, then one inch and if you are really crazy try a 3/4 inch wide surface.  It is fun..but very addictive..and a little frustrating too!  🙂

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