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25 minutes ago, revkev said:

But I think the point of the thread is how to improve his substandard wedge play - it’s a cool exercise because we all have strengths and weaknesses.

Changing equipment is only one possibility - tweaking is another - I’m suggesting targeted practice to avoid the very issues you are mentioning.

If I were playing like he is right now I’d be reluctant to make any equipment changes.
 

 

While that is the point of the thread,  I don't think he has a substandard wedge game.  He is gaining strokes on the field with his wedge play.   What we are seeing is that the camera is following him and showing all of his shots.  What we are seeing is a real golf game not a highlight reel.  

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While that is the point of the thread,  I don't think he has a substandard wedge game.  He is gaining strokes on the field with his wedge play.   What we are seeing is that the camera is following him and showing all of his shots.  What we are seeing is a real golf game not a highlight reel.  



I agree with your assessment that seeing entire rounds without the normal interruptions allows us to see blemishes that have always been there.

However, Bryson’s proximity rankings inside of 125 are not good - part of that may be that he’s hitting the ball from the rough more frequently - so his numbers aren’t great from 75 yards compared to the field - he’s there more frequently and I’m sure that a mediocre performance from 75 compared to other touring pros puts him closer to the hole than a very good performance from 125.


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8 hours ago, revkev said:

 

 


I agree with your assessment that seeing entire rounds without the normal interruptions allows us to see blemishes that have always been there.

However, Bryson’s proximity rankings inside of 125 are not good - part of that may be that he’s hitting the ball from the rough more frequently - so his numbers aren’t great from 75 yards compared to the field - he’s there more frequently and I’m sure that a mediocre performance from 75 compared to other touring pros puts him closer to the hole than a very good performance from 125.


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Despite that he’s second in scoring average.


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Despite that he’s second in scoring average.

If you reviewed my other posts in this thread I'm trying very hard to stick to the OPs line of - how would we suggest improving his wedge play. 

Obviously or at least obviously to me his strategy works for him and since it works for him there will be copy cats.  I'm simply trying to address the matter at hand. 

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11 hours ago, revkev said:

 

 


I agree with your assessment that seeing entire rounds without the normal interruptions allows us to see blemishes that have always been there.

However, Bryson’s proximity rankings inside of 125 are not good - part of that may be that he’s hitting the ball from the rough more frequently - so his numbers aren’t great from 75 yards compared to the field - he’s there more frequently and I’m sure that a mediocre performance from 75 compared to other touring pros puts him closer to the hole than a very good performance from 125.


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His fairway hit percentage is only down to 61.05% this year (he was at 65% last year)

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14 minutes ago, revkev said:

If you reviewed my other posts in this thread I'm trying very hard to stick to the OPs line of - how would we suggest improving his wedge play. 

Obviously or at least obviously to me his strategy works for him and since it works for him there will be copy cats.  I'm simply trying to address the matter at hand. 

But does he have to improve it? If one looks at his rounds since the restart it’s usually been one round where putter has gone cold or maybe some short game and that’s pretty much how most pros go. They have a low round and the next round doesn’t go as well. 
 

As for the op’s suggestion of a specialty wedge that’s not something many pros have in the bag. Phil is one of the few who plays a 64* wedge. DJs wedge game isn’t that great and he has large gaps between each wedge, could he improve his wedge game by reducing the gaps? Maybe buy like every pro they have a reason for every club in their bag and prior to last week he only carried 13 clubs. 

The commentators have to pick out where players are struggling and as op pointed out that he wasn’t happy with faldo’s comment about steel vs graphite and what Faldo states in his reply on Twitter was that he was talking about feel and how pros use feel and that may be something he could get by going back to steel. 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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How about you tap out on this one?

The point isn't that his short game is so bad that he won in spite of it. I started this thread after I made a post on my Twitter postulating how improving his around the green play could make him unstoppable. That was the point of the thread that clearly I haven't gotten across to you.

He's second in total Strokes Gained on the year so obviously what he's got is working for him. All I was suggesting is that there is room for improvement with his ranking of 96th in SG: Around the Green, which is a categorical fact. None of anything you've said in this thread has disproved that in any way, shape, or form. In fact, you haven't even addressed that.

Yes, my argument with Faldo started the thought process which I added for context but you're getting far too into that part of it. I don't think graphite's the issue. Nor does Ian Fraser. Nor does Tony or Chris from MGS. Nor do many others. Hell, TXG just released a video this morning on the subject. I haven't watched it yet but based on the comments, they proved Faldo wrong.

I've provided my theory on how he could improve his SG: Around the Green. If you want to provide your own suggestion, I'd be happy to hear it, but otherwise this thread probably isn't for you.

But does he have to improve it? If one looks at his rounds since the restart it’s usually been one round where putter has gone cold or maybe some short game and that’s pretty much how most pros go. They have a low round and the next round doesn’t go as well. 
 
As for the op’s suggestion of a specialty wedge that’s not something many pros have in the bag. Phil is one of the few who plays a 64* wedge. DJs wedge game isn’t that great and he has large gaps between each wedge, could he improve his wedge game by reducing the gaps? Maybe buy like every pro they have a reason for every club in their bag and prior to last week he only carried 13 clubs. 
The commentators have to pick out where players are struggling and as op pointed out that he wasn’t happy with faldo’s comment about steel vs graphite and what Faldo states in his reply on Twitter was that he was talking about feel and how pros use feel and that may be something he could get by going back to steel. 


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1 hour ago, FrogginBullfish said:

How about you tap out on this one?

The point isn't that his short game is so bad that he won in spite of it. I started this thread after I made a post on my Twitter postulating how improving his around the green play could make him unstoppable. That was the point of the thread that clearly I haven't gotten across to you.

He's second in total Strokes Gained on the year so obviously what he's got is working for him. All I was suggesting is that there is room for improvement with his ranking of 96th in SG: Around the Green, which is a categorical fact. None of anything you've said in this thread has disproved that in any way, shape, or form. In fact, you haven't even addressed that.

Yes, my argument with Faldo started the thought process which I added for context but you're getting far too into that part of it. I don't think graphite's the issue. Nor does Ian Fraser. Nor does Tony or Chris from MGS. Nor do many others. Hell, TXG just released a video this morning on the subject. I haven't watched it yet but based on the comments, they proved Faldo wrong.

I've provided my theory on how he could improve his SG: Around the Green. If you want to provide your own suggestion, I'd be happy to hear it, but otherwise this thread probably isn't for you.

 


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This is an open forum and like you I’m expressing my opinion in a topic. If you don’t like my opinion that’s fine and discussions on forums have those differences. 

Everyone knows that the top players if they have every aspect of their game going will dominate. It’s what made Tiger so great. Most weeks he was dominate in all aspects of the game and even on some occasions he won when one part of his game was lacking. Rory was the same way. The span of time where he had his wedges going and was above avg with the putter he ran off a bunch of victories and majors and it was hard to beat him. DJ when he decided that he needed to work on his wage game ran off majors and multiple win seasons and now that his wedge game and putter have gone cold he can still win.

Bryson was short off the tee and saw how the guys like rory, tiger, Brooks were winning due to their length. He out a plan in place to improve  his distance and he got that results he wanted. 
 

If you look at his stats over the last few years he’s actually improved this year over those years in strokes gained. 
 

 You think him removing a long club for a specialty wedge should be something he should consider to improving his wedge game. I asked earlier and either you skipped it or ignored it. What specialty wedge do you think he should add? And I’ll expand the question to why and in what situations would it be used?


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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I think he needs to plan out his shots better and go with what he knows is comfortable. He practices with what he plays so he knows what he is using just likely needs course management or just better play.  The equipment at this point is not a problem at his level. Maybe his wedges are his short fall which makes the likes of Webb Simpson still viable regardless of the length of his drives. 

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3 minutes ago, Bustaferrari said:

I think he needs to plan out his shots better and go with what he knows is comfortable. He practices with what he plays so he knows what he is using just likely needs course management or just better play.  The equipment at this point is not a problem at his level. Maybe his wedges are his short fall which makes the likes of Webb Simpson still viable regardless of the length of his drives. 

He does have his shots planned out. The plan is to hit the ball as far as he can off the tee. He hits FW or Hybrid when he can’t hit driver as seen in the previous weeks when holes that fairway run out where the driver or FW would. Other guys were hitting irons instead of hybrids to find their right distance. 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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I didn't skip anything. You did. I have suggested from the beginning what wedge I think he could add. It's right there in the first post in this thread.

 

I'm completely aware this is an open forum and you are completely at rights to share your opinions. That being said, you haven't provided anything of value to this thread. All you are doing is being overly argumentative, which is an ongoing thing with you, about issues on the peripheral of what this discussion was meant to be about.

 

 

This is an open forum and like you I’m expressing my opinion in a topic. If you don’t like my opinion that’s fine and discussions on forums have those differences. 

Everyone knows that the top players if they have every aspect of their game going will dominate. It’s what made Tiger so great. Most weeks he was dominate in all aspects of the game and even on some occasions he won when one part of his game was lacking. Rory was the same way. The span of time where he had his wedges going and was above avg with the putter he ran off a bunch of victories and majors and it was hard to beat him. DJ when he decided that he needed to work on his wage game ran off majors and multiple win seasons and now that his wedge game and putter have gone cold he can still win.

Bryson was short off the tee and saw how the guys like rory, tiger, Brooks were winning due to their length. He out a plan in place to improve  his distance and he got that results he wanted. 

 

If you look at his stats over the last few years he’s actually improved this year over those years in strokes gained. 

 

 You think him removing a long club for a specialty wedge should be something he should consider to improving his wedge game. I asked earlier and either you skipped it or ignored it. What specialty wedge do you think he should add? And I’ll expand the question to why and in what situations would it be used?

 

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1 minute ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I didn't skip anything. You did. I have suggested from the beginning what wedge I think he could add. It's right there in the first post in this thread.

 


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His 58* is a 60* that’s bent so he obviously has considered his wedge setup to match what he’s trying to do and his other two wedges are also bent from their stamped lofts. He bent his 50* to 47* and his 55* to 52*.

 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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Again, I'm well aware. His wedges have been bent strong as with his additional speed his spin rates were much too high. His current wedges are also all 37.5" in length.

 

I'll reiterate, my suggestion was a standard length 60° wedge with moderate bounce and a versatile sole grind, however he can alter those from week to week to suit the course needs, specifically to use for difficult short game shots around the green.

His 58* is a 60* that’s bent so he obviously has considered his wedge setup to match what he’s trying to do and his other two wedges are also bent from their stamped lofts. He bent his 50* to 47* and his 55* to 52*.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Again, I'm well aware. His wedges have been bent strong as with his additional speed his spin rates were much too high. His current wedges are also all 37.5" in length.

 

I'll reiterate, my suggestion was a standard length 60° wedge with moderate bounce and a versatile sole grind, however he can alter those from week to week to suit the course needs, specifically to use for difficult short game shots around the green.

 

 

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If he has a bag setup of one length irons because that fits his swing going to something of a different length. That changes feel and swing for him and his game. That would be like someone adding a club to their bag that’s of a different spec than everything else in hopes that is would improve score.

I’ll reiterate pros have their bags setup with a purpose and their scoring clubs are setup to be used for various types of shots. As Faldo pointed out in his reply feel is something important to pros and they rely on it. Changing specs changes feel and in brysons case would probably be worse for his game than better for it.

The fact that he has his wedges bent to certain lofts have account for not only his gapping but the bounce as well. 
 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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His fairway woods and driver are not single length. He sure manages to do well with those clubs. I think he can handle one club at the other end of the bag just fine as well, especially given that my suggestion wouldn't have him using it on shots beyond 30 yards.

Also, Bryson uses the shafts he does to take the "feel" Faldo is talking about out of his game. He doesn't want to feel the shaft deflect throughout his swing. Faldo's suggestion to switch back to steel alters his "feel" and swing far worse than mine ever could, especially given that my suggestion would still allow him a playable club at the stiffness frequency and swingweight he's looking for with the rest of his irons and wedges. Faldo's doesn't.

If he has a bag setup of one length irons because that fits his swing going to something of a different length. That changes feel and swing for him and his game. That would be like someone adding a club to their bag that’s of a different spec than everything else in hopes that is would improve score.
I’ll reiterate pros have their bags setup with a purpose and their scoring clubs are setup to be used for various types of shots. As Faldo pointed out in his reply feel is something important to pros and they rely on it. Changing specs changes feel and in brysons case would probably be worse for his game than better for it.
The fact that he has his wedges bent to certain lofts have account for not only his gapping but the bounce as well. 
 


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24 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

His fairway woods and driver are not single length. He sure manages to do well with those clubs. I think he can handle one club at the other end of the bag just fine as well, especially given that my suggestion wouldn't have him using it on shots beyond 30 yards.

Also, Bryson uses the shafts he does to take the "feel" Faldo is talking about out of his game. He doesn't want to feel the shaft deflect throughout his swing. Faldo's suggestion to switch back to steel alters his "feel" and swing far worse than mine ever could, especially given that my suggestion would still allow him a playable club at the stiffness frequency and swingweight he's looking for with the rest of his irons and wedges. Faldo's doesn't.

 


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No duh his wolds aren’t single length but all his irons and wedges are so putting different length wedge in is a change.

Feel means different things to different people. The key thing Faldo was talking about is also about consistency. Changing from one length to another in a wedge changes that. 

The “need for him to improve his wedge/shirt game” is based on a perception of it being bad because commentators talked about some shots across 4 rounds and because some stats that are not accurate based on how they are calculated yet with them being in the positive indicate it isn’t as big of a problem as some think.

Bryson is he hottest player on tour right now and his stats overall indicate he will be ok without having to add a specialty club which 99.99999999% of pros don’t put in the bag  to solve a bad shot or two a round or in 4 days


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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His short game is ranked 96th in Strokes Gained. There's room to improve there. That's not based on one week. That's based on every week he's played this year.

Faldo's talk of consistency has no basis in reality. TXG's video today is about that.

Obviously my suggestion would be a change. That's literally the point of suggesting something different he could be doing to improve the area of his game where he stands to improve the most, which is factually his around the green play. That cannot be denied. Just cause he's in the positive doesn't mean he can't stand to improve. He's only gaining 0.05 of a shot per round with his around the green play. That could just as easily be -0.05 and it would mean the same thing. His short game is fine but its not among the best on tour. Not by any stretch.

You continue to ramble on without providing anything of value to this thread. If you don't think there's any changes to suggest, then say that and be done with it. All you're doing right now is derailing a thread with a bunch of peripheral arguments that don't provide value to the question at hand.

No duh his wolds aren’t single length but all his irons and wedges are so putting different length wedge in is a change.
Feel means different things to different people. The key thing Faldo was talking about is also about consistency. Changing from one length to another in a wedge changes that. 
The “need for him to improve his wedge/shirt game” is based on a perception of it being bad because commentators talked about some shots across 4 rounds and because some stats that are not accurate based on how they are calculated yet with them being in the positive indicate it isn’t as big of a problem as some think.
Bryson is he hottest player on tour right now and his stats overall indicate he will be ok without having to add a specialty club which 99.99999999% of pros don’t put in the bag  to solve a bad shot or two a round or in 4 days


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18 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

His short game is ranked 96th in Strokes Gained. There's room to improve there. That's not based on one week. That's based on every week he's played this year.

Faldo's talk of consistency has no basis in reality. TXG's video today is about that.

Obviously my suggestion would be a change. That's literally the point of suggesting something different he could be doing to improve the area of his game where he stands to improve the most, which is factually his around the green play. That cannot be denied. Just cause he's in the positive doesn't mean he can't stand to improve. He's only gaining 0.05 of a shot per round with his around the green play. That could just as easily be -0.05 and it would mean the same thing. His short game is fine but its not among the best on tour. Not by any stretch.

You continue to ramble on without providing anything of value to this thread. If you don't think there's any changes to suggest, then say that and be done with it. All you're doing right now is derailing a thread with a bunch of peripheral arguments that don't provide value to the question at hand.

 


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You think he needs to improve based on some numbers where as he thinks he needed to improve his driving distance and that subsequently improved his other numbers. I disagree and have talked about it from how pros think and that their bags are setup for a reason and that each club is in the bag for a reason.

His top 10 finishes and his win suggest his approach is working. 

You don’t like to have your opinion questioned which is ok and I’ve pointed out why his bag doesn’t need to change and that what you are suggesting doesn’t make sense for a tour pro. He has a coach for his training, nutrition as well as his golf game. If his nutrition or training needed to change then his coach would adjust that and it’s no different than with his golf game and his coach working with him to make changes where needed. There’s nothing Bryson does that doesn’t have a reason for it and a method to achieving it. I’ve had the opportunity to talk with people in the golf business that worked with Bryson when he first came on tour and was trying to get his clubs setup. Bryson is very detailed and involved in the process and provides detailed feedback on what he feels, thinks and wants to see. 
 

He played very little golf during the lockdown, was focused on swing faster and harder along with training to be able to do that. He basically went back on tour with minimal prep and finished in the top 10 of every event and now a win, what’s to say that his numbers won’t improve as his feel and comfortability hitting shots comes back that his short game doesn’t get better. Let’s also not forget that the commentators in his first couple events back noted that despite his increased distance and size his touch was still good. 
 

 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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I welcome challenges to my opinion actually. But none of what you've said here is a challenge towards my opinion. All you're doing is making peripheral arguments trying to inflate your ego about your knowledge of what professional golfers do with their bags, which btw pretty much everyone here already is aware of. Not one thing you've said in this thread about how pros setup their bags is new information to me and frankly it's not relevant to the discussion which was simply meant to be a way of having a fun discussion about how he could potentially improve the weakest part of his game.

You can challenge me all you want, but without any real facts to back it up, I'm not going to give your opinions much thought. My opinions are built around the facts as presented which I've stated many times in response to you. Everyone on the planet is aware he's made changes to his physique to hit the ball further. He's accomplished that goal. Regardless of whether he continues to pursue distance or tries to maintain the gains he's made, his around the green play is going to be a critical part of his game moving forward. I fail to see how identifying that area as a weakness when he's ranked 96th on tour in that area is a bad thing. He's probably already identifying that as an area to improve on himself.

All I wanted to do was to have a discussion about what he could do to improve that area of his game but you seem keen on not allowing that to happen so I'm going to request that a mod lock this thread up. There's no point in continuing.

You think he needs to improve based on some numbers where as he thinks he needed to improve his driving distance and that subsequently improved his other numbers. I disagree and have talked about it from how pros think and that their bags are setup for a reason and that each club is in the bag for a reason.
His top 10 finishes and his win suggest his approach is working. 
You don’t like to have your opinion questioned which is ok and I’ve pointed out why his bag doesn’t need to change and that what you are suggesting doesn’t make sense for a tour pro. He has a coach for his training, nutrition as well as his golf game. If his nutrition or training needed to change then his coach would adjust that and it’s no different than with his golf game and his coach working with him to make changes where needed. There’s nothing Bryson does that doesn’t have a reason for it and a method to achieving it. I’ve had the opportunity to talk with people in the golf business that worked with Bryson when he first came on tour and was trying to get his clubs setup. Bryson is very detailed and involved in the process and provides detailed feedback on what he feels, thinks and wants to see. 
 
He played very little golf during the lockdown, was focused on swing faster and harder along with training to be able to do that. He basically went back on tour with minimal prep and finished in the top 10 of every event and now a win, what’s to say that his numbers won’t improve as his feel and comfortability hitting shots comes back that his short game doesn’t get better. Let’s also not forget that the commentators in his first couple events back noted that despite his increased distance and size his touch was still good. 
 
 


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I have in the past played graphite in my wedges with zero issue. These guys tend to agree with that result.





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In the Bag for 2020

PXG 0811XF Gen 2 10.5* (set at 9*) AD VR 6x

PXG 0341X Gen 2 15* AD TP 7x

PXG 0317X Gen 2 19* KBS Proto 95x

PXG 0311T Gen 3 4-6 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 ST 7 - PW KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 50/10 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 54/10 & 58/07 TTDG TI S400

:rife-putters-1: Two Bar Blade Long 47"

 

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