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ncwoz

So I did an iron fitting today...

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18 hours ago, ncwoz said:

I appreciate your thoughts! To be completely honest, I was going into the fitting with 90% certainty I would either be finding a DTC similar set composition to whatever they fit me to, or pulling the set together by parts. When I saw the price they quoted, 90% went up to 100% certainty really fast haha.

Your insight (especially because you do fittings yourself) on the fit is giving me some more reason for hesitation in trusting the fit though. The fitter was pretty young (nothing inherently wrong with that), but didn't seem to be abundantly knowledgeable. His explanations and answers to some of my questions were really basic, but it's hard to tell if that was an indication of his potential lack of knowledge or if he is used to fitting golfers who don't have much of an idea of golfing/club fitting concepts. I asked him what he was looking for in the shaft that he thought would fit my swing, and his answer kinda felt something along the lines of "let's just put a bunch of shafts in there until you hit one well". I guess not inherently the worst strategy, but doesn't feel like there's a lot of knowledge and science behind the decision. He was also predominately concerned with smash factor when selecting both the head and the shaft, and didn't mention almost anything about angle of descent, potential gapping, dispersion, spin, etc. I was a little bummed as well that I never got access to the Trackman data from the fitting.

The thing I found most curious about the fit was that he fit me to 1° upright, even though I was consistently hitting a my few yard draw throughout the fitting, and almost every single "miss" swing I hooked far left (also what I do on the course). I asked him specifically why he thought 1° upright would be better for me, and he just told me to take a swing and said something along the lines of "See I was right".

I didn't know the Nippon Pro 1150 was more suited for an aggressive transition, but don't feel like I am particularly aggressive. Here's a video I took for the Tour Edge hybrid review, I'd be curious if you do think I might be more aggressive than I thought:

We are fortunate enough to have a few options for fitting near us, and I know @edingc has had good experiences at Maple Hill. @Manimal26 As a fitter yourself, do you think it would be worth trying another fitter to see if they fit me into something similar to Club Champion, or if they go a different direction entirely? Again, thanks for your insight.

@ncwoz So I have spent some time analyzing this and I will replay and tag you in a follow up with some recommendations. Here are some questions though... Do you know your 6i/7i club head speed? How tall are you and how much do you weight? Looking at the video what sport are you coming from and what position did you play? do you know your driver club head speed? How far do you carry that hybrid?

Also a proper fitting is so important to maximizing your game. here are two shops in MI I looked up that from a 10,000 ft seem much better.

https://www.legolfshop.com/service/club-fitting/ (my shop has all the same banners and awards and its usually a sign someone there knows what they are talking about)

https://www.milesofgolf.com/club-fitting/club-fitting-ann-arbor/ (if this one is closer it would be the one I choose... I'd probably take the trip since they have a Quintec which very few shops have for putting. To get a Quintec you have to know what you are talking about across the whole spectrum of fitting)

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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50 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@ncwoz So I have spent some time analyzing this and I will replay and tag you in a follow up with some recommendations. Here are some questions though... Do you know your 6i/7i club head speed? How tall are you and how much do you weight? Looking at the video what sport are you coming from and what position did you play? do you know your driver club head speed? How far do you carry that hybrid?

Also a proper fitting is so important to maximizing your game. here are two shops in MI I looked up that from a 10,000 ft seem much better.

https://www.legolfshop.com/service/club-fitting/ (my shop has all the same banners and awards and its usually a sign someone there knows what they are talking about)

https://www.milesofgolf.com/club-fitting/club-fitting-ann-arbor/ (if this one is closer it would be the one I choose... I'd probably take the trip since they have a Quintec which very few shops have for putting. To get a Quintec you have to know what you are talking about across the whole spectrum of fitting)

@Manimal26 Thanks, I appreciate your time and thoughts!

Unfortunately I don't have 6i/7i club head speed or driver club head speed any more than an educated guess. I am 6'1", weigh about 200 pounds, coming from playing basketball and running track. I was a shooting guard/small forward, and a mid-sprinter (200 & 400 primarily). I do know from the hybrid fitting that my club head speed with that club was about 108mph, and I carry it 230-240ish yards (it's an 18° head if that's helpful). Also, I hit my gamer 6i (Ping Eye 2+, ~32° loft) about 180, and I was hitting the P790 6i in the fitting about 200-210yrds.

Unfortunately both those shops are ~2 hours away from me, but that's definitely not out of the question. Maple Hill (https://maplehillgolf.com/launch-kitchen) is the shop up the street I've heard some good things about their fittings, and have done a putter fitting with them previously as well.

  • Like 2

Right Handed

Driver (9.5°): :taylormade-small: R9 SupterTri (Fujikura MotoreF1 65 Stiff shaft)

FW (15°): :callaway-logo-1: X2 Hot (Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff shaft)

Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

Irons (PW-3) :ping-small: Eye 2's

Wedges (52° & 60°): :callaway-logo-1: Mack Daddy 2's

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour

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13 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

I just went to our local Club Champion to be fit for shafts for the Wilson D7 test.  I'll do a more thorough write-up of the fitting as a part of the testing thread but some quick observations:

1.  I made it clear that I wasn't buying anything from them but the fitting.  
2.  I let them know that I was only looking at the no-upcharge shafts, and I came in with a list.
3.  I let them know that we'd only be hitting the D7's, because this is what I'll be testing.
4.  The fitter (Mason Wolf) was great, but I knew him by reputation, so I wasn't worried about the fitting I'd get.
5.  Yes, we only hit the 6 iron.  I don't think that's great, but I wasn't so worried as I knew that I'm getting the D7's.  I seem to recall that's all I hit when I had my Cobra F8 "fitting" two years ago at Golf Galaxy. 
6.  He spent the full 90 minutes on just one head and a smaller universe of shafts.
7.  They're going to do a spec check on the build that I get from Wilson and adjust lofts and lies to the specs they came up with for me.

My build for the D7 Forged, 4-PW, with Recoil 110s would be about $1,600.  It's definitely spendy.  But I couldn't have been more impressed with the job they did with the fitting, operating under the constraints I put on them.  Full disclosure, I was going to go to a local place for the fitting, but they couldn't get me in soon enough.  

 

I don't think you were even close to unreasonable.....or constraining.

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:cobra-small: F8 Driver...10.5 degree..Reg

:taylormade-small:  M1 5 Wood....19 (lofted down  to 17 degree) ....Reg

:Sub70:  939 4h...Reg

:mizuno-small: JPX EZ Forged  4i-AW ...Reg

:cleveland-small: 58 deg RX-3

Kirkland KS1 putter

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@ncwoz Here is what I noticed from the sample size of swings with the hybrid..... 

.642719549_takeaway2.jpg.638e5acf90a779220c65f39977974fa8.jpgtakeaway.jpg.f72e099be1302d9840e6df95310337ed.jpg

Here is your swing in the takeaway. If you notice you shaft plane is steep for how inside your arms and  hip turn have generated... This causes you a few issues at the top which lead to some other issues in the down swing and could be helped with a proper fitting....

1704860957_topofbs.jpg.e93b844710d237442664c0a2465f68c3.jpg99368803_topofbs2.jpg.1d9490e5891cdfc25825e4e06d6a7df5.jpg

Here you are at the top. You have great flexibility and understand the turn is how you generate power. You are focused on getting to a 90 degree angle at the top which causes you to cup your wrist and throws the club face wide open. You had mentioned that you do get the 2 way miss some times and just from a guess and with not watching more swings I would guess this is the cause. Also the club breaks and comes back around your head. People focus on the club head when its really the depth of your hands that is important. Below is a photo of justin rose where he had a similar top and then the changes he has made to get more hand depth

2109416334_compariosntopofBS.jpg.aa136309cbeebe5d68f3f22b50ab7bd8.jpg

No cupping greater hand depth actually allows the club to travel a greater distance and gain more speed. Rose hits the ball much farther today than he did in 2000.

1130558239_shaftload.jpg.66d1f719c25302bc82f7f66794f6aaf6.jpg

Here is you loading the shaft. I try to fit people into hybrids that come with multiple options such as Ping Titleist and Mizuno. The Even Flow black hybrid weighs around 85g uncut depending on if you have the hand crated version or not. It has a super thick butt .625 vs .600 standard this creates a really stiff but section they soften the middle and has a stiff tip... Low launch and low spin profile. You have no issue loading it but this is where the shaft comes into play. Depending on your iron swing this is where I have some ideas on shafts that might work well for you and help achieve your goals.

impact.jpg.169455c5b1397a1db1b853832cc96270.jpg

Here is your swing at impact... Because of the things created in the back swing you have to extend early a bit. You look to be a solid athlete so you are able to compensate still generate club head speed but this is where the big miss can come in. 

1582138229_postimpact.jpg.f9b8b49ce00178991fb9e8fac990ebf1.jpg632550279_postimpact2.jpg.64a47758ab1738699d0e7d048bad0a54.jpg1339305595_impactBrandondraw.jpg.c21b082679dd019cebdb0a74ad7791ed.jpg

At post impact because of the early extension you have to release the club extremely quickly because your turn is so fast and you have to race to catch up. This is a recepie for a pull/hook/over draw... Combined with your shut club to your target line due to either to strong of grip or that combined with your release you get your miss. Again you look to be a great athlete so you can do things most people can not because of your athletic ability. You have naturally aimed far to the right to help compensate for the draw and the miss (look at impact photo).  The other thing I see is that your shoulders have already closed to your target at impact. This is me playing a slight draw to that pitching pin. My face is closing to my target but my shoulders and arms almost form a line as everything releases. I did a wedge shot just to get the right positions I still need a lot of work to get to where I want but if I had any shot I was least likely to mess up its this one.

1625133724_tigerhittingadraw.jpg.4d8cf3cd1f4aa4a3f72d4963f702ca63.jpg

Here is the goat hitting a draw with a metal wood. He is the best at positions of all time. If you look at halfway his shaft is perfectly in line with the ball... He gets so much depth in his swing and his club looks 90 face on but down the line you can see he has created a good 120+ angle from the target where yours is smaller. His wrist is also perfectly flat. His impact is so pure. He has squatted down shoulders open to the his target face squaring up into a perfect release with the ball taking off to the right and will draw slightly back in. If you look at the post impact from release the lines are almost identical.

This is what I do in the second phase of a fit. I use V1 software so I can do side by side before and afters and such. Sometimes honestly I tell people to change their fitting to a fitting lesson combo so that the equipment the might get actually gives a greater impact.

 

As I am writing this I see you have posted a few things back so I will end here and give some recommendations 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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30 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@ncwoz Here is what I noticed from the sample size of swings with the hybrid..... 

.642719549_takeaway2.jpg.638e5acf90a779220c65f39977974fa8.jpgtakeaway.jpg.f72e099be1302d9840e6df95310337ed.jpg

Here is your swing in the takeaway. If you notice you shaft plane is steep for how inside your arms and  hip turn have generated... This causes you a few issues at the top which lead to some other issues in the down swing and could be helped with a proper fitting....

1704860957_topofbs.jpg.e93b844710d237442664c0a2465f68c3.jpg99368803_topofbs2.jpg.1d9490e5891cdfc25825e4e06d6a7df5.jpg

Here you are at the top. You have great flexibility and understand the turn is how you generate power. You are focused on getting to a 90 degree angle at the top which causes you to cup your wrist and throws the club face wide open. You had mentioned that you do get the 2 way miss some times and just from a guess and with not watching more swings I would guess this is the cause. Also the club breaks and comes back around your head. People focus on the club head when its really the depth of your hands that is important. Below is a photo of justin rose where he had a similar top and then the changes he has made to get more hand depth

2109416334_compariosntopofBS.jpg.aa136309cbeebe5d68f3f22b50ab7bd8.jpg

No cupping greater hand depth actually allows the club to travel a greater distance and gain more speed. Rose hits the ball much farther today than he did in 2000.

1130558239_shaftload.jpg.66d1f719c25302bc82f7f66794f6aaf6.jpg

Here is you loading the shaft. I try to fit people into hybrids that come with multiple options such as Ping Titleist and Mizuno. The Even Flow black hybrid weighs around 85g uncut depending on if you have the hand crated version or not. It has a super thick butt .625 vs .600 standard this creates a really stiff but section they soften the middle and has a stiff tip... Low launch and low spin profile. You have no issue loading it but this is where the shaft comes into play. Depending on your iron swing this is where I have some ideas on shafts that might work well for you and help achieve your goals.

impact.jpg.169455c5b1397a1db1b853832cc96270.jpg

Here is your swing at impact... Because of the things created in the back swing you have to extend early a bit. You look to be a solid athlete so you are able to compensate still generate club head speed but this is where the big miss can come in. 

1582138229_postimpact.jpg.f9b8b49ce00178991fb9e8fac990ebf1.jpg632550279_postimpact2.jpg.64a47758ab1738699d0e7d048bad0a54.jpg1339305595_impactBrandondraw.jpg.c21b082679dd019cebdb0a74ad7791ed.jpg

At post impact because of the early extension you have to release the club extremely quickly because your turn is so fast and you have to race to catch up. This is a recepie for a pull/hook/over draw... Combined with your shut club to your target line due to either to strong of grip or that combined with your release you get your miss. Again you look to be a great athlete so you can do things most people can not because of your athletic ability. You have naturally aimed far to the right to help compensate for the draw and the miss (look at impact photo).  The other thing I see is that your shoulders have already closed to your target at impact. This is me playing a slight draw to that pitching pin. My face is closing to my target but my shoulders and arms almost form a line as everything releases. I did a wedge shot just to get the right positions I still need a lot of work to get to where I want but if I had any shot I was least likely to mess up its this one.

1625133724_tigerhittingadraw.jpg.4d8cf3cd1f4aa4a3f72d4963f702ca63.jpg

Here is the goat hitting a draw with a metal wood. He is the best at positions of all time. If you look at halfway his shaft is perfectly in line with the ball... He gets so much depth in his swing and his club looks 90 face on but down the line you can see he has created a good 120+ angle from the target where yours is smaller. His wrist is also perfectly flat. His impact is so pure. He has squatted down shoulders open to the his target face squaring up into a perfect release with the ball taking off to the right and will draw slightly back in. If you look at the post impact from release the lines are almost identical.

This is what I do in the second phase of a fit. I use V1 software so I can do side by side before and afters and such. Sometimes honestly I tell people to change their fitting to a fitting lesson combo so that the equipment the might get actually gives a greater impact.

 

As I am writing this I see you have posted a few things back so I will end here and give some recommendations 

You are truly a manimal. Unbelievable that you took the time analyze his swing. Poster of the year type stuff right there!

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Hey really nice read guys - I don't know how I missed this thread - well actually I do - it's called things get crazy at times in my line of work due to COVID and that was right in the middle of our spike - just great stuff.

 In the end I'm very thankful for my local fitter and so pleased that he survived the lockdown - He's very knowledgeable - has all those banners that Manable mentioned, worked for several years in the TMag tour van - and understands that most people care about a buck. 

  • Like 1

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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3 minutes ago, ncwoz said:

@Manimal26 Thanks, I appreciate your time and thoughts!

Unfortunately I don't have 6i/7i club head speed or driver club head speed any more than an educated guess. I am 6'1", weigh about 200 pounds, coming from playing basketball and running track. I was a shooting guard/small forward, and a mid-sprinter (200 & 400 primarily). I do know from the hybrid fitting that my club head speed with that club was about 108mph, and I carry it 230-240ish yards (it's an 18° head if that's helpful). Also, I hit my gamer 6i (Ping Eye 2+, ~32° loft) about 180, and I was hitting the P790 6i in the fitting about 200-210yrds.

Unfortunately both those shops are ~2 hours away from me, but that's definitely not out of the question. Maple Hill (https://maplehillgolf.com/launch-kitchen) is the shop up the street I've heard some good things about their fittings, and have done a putter fitting with them previously as well.

@ncwoz Thanks this helps with the recommendations and final thoughts. That maple hill place looks solid. They also sell pre-owned gear on the website so they care about your pocket book. With your athletic background it makes sense that your hips turn fast since you have to pivot as a guard very quickly.

I do think some equipment changes would help you achieve your goals.

Please take this with a grain of salt since I have not seen any launch monitor data or ball flights. That being said 108mph in your hybrid you are not getting enough or what you could/should at 18 deg. of loft.

196495871_Balldata.jpg.a495f18535001a5b9e036fffeeae97f7.jpg

We use Foresight which I prefer but this is some data to look at for your next fitting. This is a TM M6 22 deg. with Tensei Pro white 90TX 4H at 40" it was just too hot and with lack of launch and spin no chance of holding a green. by going up in weight of the shaft (100TX) and changing the head we were able to increase spin by 1000 RPM and increase the launch and ball speed which took carry to 240ish and would hold greens.

108MPH you could be getting a lot more as I mentioned. I will scale this down into the irons but 108 MPH with a hybrid is extremely fast...

First adding +1/4" to a shaft makes the club play about 1/2 deg. more upright to begin with. I am 6'1" as well and I play standard lengths (37" 7i) but I do play +1/4" in my wedges. Your arms might be longer than mine which is where playing length and starting loft and lie will take place and work from there. My playing partner is the same height as me with much longer arms and plays +1/4" and 2 up (64 lie 7i) were I am standard and -2 flat (61 lie 7i)... Every club manufacturer uses different standard lies but Taylormade / Titlesit / callaway use around 63 / 63.5 as their standard to help sell more clubs off the shelf. a good fitter can help you dial this in and if they say cast clubs can not be bent they are wrong.

The bigger thing for you will be offset in the club head. Players distance irons tend to have more offset than players irons. you can reduce offset by weakening the lofts but its better to start with something with less at the standard loft. Offset is designed to allow the club square up since most people struggle releasing the club. you release early so this is contributing to the hooks. I would look at the ping i500 Mizuno JPX 919 forged (921 about to come out) and throw some players irons to test like the T-100's JPX tours. 

I would guess your ball flight lacks launch and maybe some spin since the p-790 only went 200 yards of carry. You have some serious speed and should be able to get 210+ out of that 6i and stopping power.

I would not describe your swing as aggressive actually I would say its pretty smooth and moderate.  

The iron shaft you should try is the nippon modus 120x 120tx and 130x. These are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as profiles go but the 120 X/TX can help as you learn to release the club better. It has a very soft butt section which will help you feel the club head better. The tip is the stiffest around which will help stabilize deflection at impact. the 130x is the opposite sort of but I think the extra weight might help you time better and get to a better plane. It also has a much softer tip which can help promote a little higher launch. I game the 120X  and many tour players do like tony finau who crushes the ball... You should also try the KBS tour X and Tour v X and TX and they fall sort of in between the 2 nippons. Also give the DG 120 X100 a try too. The DG 120 X100 will be very close to the 1150 nippon. Whatever you decide get some DG TI S400 wedge shafts for GW/SW/LW if you look on tour I would say 90-95% of pros have this in their wedges. its the gold standard of wedge shafts.

In your hybrid I would go with a Graphite Design tour AD-DI or Tour AD-IZ in the 95x Mitsubishi Tensei Pro Blue 90TX  Mitsubishi Tensei Pro white 90-100 X/TX the X were made especially for Titlesit but they are so close. You can probably nab a titlest for $30 somewhere. In all of these shafts the softer butt section will help you feel load and release better.

This should help get you on your way... weight is your friend with your speed and offset can be your enemy... The last thing is the grip I am not sure how large your hands are but if you wear a L glove use a midsize grip. I have large hands L/XL and I use the Lamkin TS1 midsize. It has reduced taper like the sonar to help reduce wrist roll (reduce hook) its much firmer though and will help get your grip pressure better at your speed... Soft grips at your speed might cause some issues... On tour everyone uses the GP BCT because of how firm it is and similar speeds to yourself... we just cant get in a midsize and the zcord along with the Lamkin full cord  is another option they just dont have the reduced taper lower hand and would have to be built up.

Fitting is so important and makes huge differences in your game. Let me know if you what some metal wood ideas based on my guesses, and if you do provide me as much info and which shaft you like better between your driver and 3w....

let me know any other questions you might have, but I would say do another iron fitting and tell them about the Club Champion experience and where you are in your game and where you want to be... The things I asked you are all things I ask when I do a fit. Also make sure they have some type of guarantee.  If you buy new or used clubs with a fit and they do not work we do a free 30 min eval/lesson and offer 60 day exchange and refit... Also if you buy the clubs the day of the fit we discount the fitting.... we do everything we can to help the customer...

 

  • Like 4

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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46 minutes ago, mchiller said:

You are truly a manimal. Unbelievable that you took the time analyze his swing. Poster of the year type stuff right there!

Thanks @mchiller that is an amazing complement... I get a lot of people who get referred to me that have had some bad experiences at Club Champion or did not get what they paid for. We have 3 near me and they all do a really poor job so in a way I am thankful for them lol... They just have a lot of power and marketing and with everyone saying get fit get fit and you google that Club Champion and Golf Tec come up first which are 2 places I tell people to avoid in most cases. But what you do not know can hurt you that's why places like this are important that do not take adds for the most part. 

It makes me angry when I see people who get taken advantage of and stories spread about how fitting makes no difference, when it could not be anymore the opposite. 

  • Like 5

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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On 7/14/2020 at 9:29 PM, ncwoz said:

Yeah, only hit 6 irons. That'd be a concern of mine as well, but I do have some room to add in a wedge if needed. It was nice to hit the 6i far, but for me I'm mostly trying to get more consistency out of my next set, and that's where I was most importantly impressed with the P790s

First, it sounds like the $100 for the fitting was money well spent.  That you were able to identify a shaft that really showed itself amongst the rest is great - except that it sounds like an outlier that is not offered as an option or without significant upcharge.  Still, I think that's a pretty important finding and, with the idea of a fitting to define the best set-up for your game, it would be hard not to go with it.  

How many other brand/model club heads did you try?  Club Champion has lots of options that are less money; Wilson, Tour Edge, Cobra for example that might help get the price down to something you can stomach.  I suppose this is a risk we all face going into a fitting... the Miura irons with an upcharge shaft laps the contenders 😬.

  • Like 2

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver | Official 2019 MGS Tester

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:ping-small: G410 Irons 4-UW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:ping-small: B61 Putter

 

 

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5 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

First, it sounds like the $100 for the fitting was money well spent.  That you were able to identify a shaft that really showed itself amongst the rest is great - except that it sounds like an outlier that is not offered as an option or without significant upcharge.  Still, I think that's a pretty important finding and, with the idea of a fitting to define the best set-up for your game, it would be hard not to go with it.  

How many other brand/model club heads did you try?  Club Champion has lots of options that are less money; Wilson, Tour Edge, Cobra for example that might help get the price down to something you can stomach.  I suppose this is a risk we all face going into a fitting... the Miura irons with an upcharge shaft laps the contenders 😬.

The goal of the fit is two fold... First is finding the right combos for your game at the time of the fit that will optimize you. That being said every OEM sends you a cart with their shaft offerings that are no up-charge.These should be exhausted before going to anything that would be an up charge. However depending on what place you choose and how much business they do with that OEM they will send you a full set of irons in the standard off the self setup or heads that can be converted to demo heads. You also have companies that will give you head only accounts such as Mizuno which allows you to sell the head + any shaft and come out to an off the shelf price or usually less. Were I am at we use the club conex system and pay 8am golf the ridiculous cost to be able to fit any iron hybrid or wood to any shaft. Our build team if not provided by them OEM's then makes us a set of irons that will fit into our demo matrix. Only fitting a mid iron does no good since outside of MB's majority of sets are progressive and have different characteristics in the long and short irons. Also eliminates the possibility of getting a true combo set. Club Champion does not want to pay 8am (true Spec's parent company) for their system and have created their own Chinese rip off system which throws off swings weights and makes it hard to build the exact same club. 

The second goal of a fit is to help you get to where you want to be and with in reasonable expectations. If you plan on working on your game and have swing goals you want something that optimizes you today, but as you improve will transition with you well. Significant swing changes that result in changes to impact delivery may mean that your equipment is no longer optimized to you. This is why good fitters will offer gaping session and 14 club evals. Simple changes to length loft and lie may be all that is needed. Rarely have I ever seen a change in an iron shaft after someone who has been fit make huge changes. Example is at any tour level. They may change club heads but the iron shaft remains the same. They make loft and lie changes and grinds to the soles but not very often do they change the steel, and def not in season. Graphite is a different conversation all together for any club.

Also not all Club Champions are created equal. Some of them have fantastic fitters that do an amazing job. Club Champion fitters are under a tremendous amount of sales pressure though since they were bought out by a private equity firm. This is taken directly from a job application;

● Great compensation for the golf industry. Master Fitters earn a competitive base salary, commission on all sales (uncapped), and a store performance bonus.
● Excellent insurance plans including medical, dental, and vision as well as an optional 401(k) plan
● 3 weeks Paid Time Off(PTO), paid national holidays, and closed on Sundays
● 4 weeks paid training (Club Champion University) for all newly hired Master Fitters, on-going training and learning opportunities for all employees
● Fun perks including incentives (sales contests with prizes like trips and gift cards) and Personal Use Discount on equipment and apparel
● Unlimited growth potential - we value top performers and promote from within (career path to Store Manager and Regional Sales Director)

 Club Champion fitters are called "Golf Equipment Sales/Master Club Fitter" sales first and fitter second. Like any true sales job there is pressure to close business along with it.  Our shop does not pay commission on fittings. We are actually paid by the hour so we can earn over time. I get in at 7:30 AM most days we are open from 9a-6p and leave at 7:30 PM. I also work 6 days a week every other week based on releases training and other things. This allows us to remain brand agnostic, and we can not tell a customer if we are on staff with any OEM's, what we game during a fit, and any other information that might sway a customer. We try to remain as unbiased as possible.

OEM's both club and shaft offer things I know that club champion passes on which sways thoughts. We do not take these and never know who they come from and they are put into a shared pot that we all split evenly. Some OEM's make you take these as part of their agreement. 

Hopefully this shares some insight into their culture, but that being said they have some amazing fitters who know what they are doing, but when you apply sales pressure it removes some objectivity and makes it more like buying a car than investing in clubs. Heck they even pitch financing too which they get a kick back on....

Just my $0.02 sure I would love to make more money, but golf is a game of values morals but more importantly integrity which to me is more important than money.

 

 

 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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2 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

Thanks @mchiller that is an amazing complement... I get a lot of people who get referred to me that have had some bad experiences at Club Champion or did not get what they paid for. We have 3 near me and they all do a really poor job so in a way I am thankful for them lol... They just have a lot of power and marketing and with everyone saying get fit get fit and you google that Club Champion and Golf Tec come up first which are 2 places I tell people to avoid in most cases. But what you do not know can hurt you that's why places like this are important that do not take adds for the most part. 

It makes me angry when I see people who get taken advantage of and stories spread about how fitting makes no difference, when it could not be anymore the opposite. 

Sounds like you have a solid setup at your place. It has definitely opened up my eyes to the smaller, lesser known fitters and I'll definitely search more for my next fitting. 

I had an iron fitting at Club Champion this spring and it was a really good experience. That being said, I am headed back this week or next as the shafts have not been working out. I don't blame the fitter though. These shafts were the clear winner when I went in for my fitting. The problem may have been that it was early spring so I hadn't been playing as much. I'm interested to see what options I have with CC and their 90 day guarantee. 

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44 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

The goal of the fit is two fold... First is finding the right combos for your game at the time of the fit that will optimize you. That being said every OEM sends you a cart with their shaft offerings that are no up-charge.These should be exhausted before going to anything that would be an up charge. However depending on what place you choose and how much business they do with that OEM they will send you a full set of irons in the standard off the self setup or heads that can be converted to demo heads. You also have companies that will give you head only accounts such as Mizuno which allows you to sell the head + any shaft and come out to an off the shelf price or usually less. Were I am at we use the club conex system and pay 8am golf the ridiculous cost to be able to fit any iron hybrid or wood to any shaft. Our build team if not provided by them OEM's then makes us a set of irons that will fit into our demo matrix. Only fitting a mid iron does no good since outside of MB's majority of sets are progressive and have different characteristics in the long and short irons. Also eliminates the possibility of getting a true combo set. Club Champion does not want to pay 8am (true Spec's parent company) for their system and have created their own Chinese rip off system which throws off swings weights and makes it hard to build the exact same club. 

The second goal of a fit is to help you get to where you want to be and with in reasonable expectations. If you plan on working on your game and have swing goals you want something that optimizes you today, but as you improve will transition with you well. Significant swing changes that result in changes to impact delivery may mean that your equipment is no longer optimized to you. This is why good fitters will offer gaping session and 14 club evals. Simple changes to length loft and lie may be all that is needed. Rarely have I ever seen a change in an iron shaft after someone who has been fit make huge changes. Example is at any tour level. They may change club heads but the iron shaft remains the same. They make loft and lie changes and grinds to the soles but not very often do they change the steel, and def not in season. Graphite is a different conversation all together for any club.

Also not all Club Champions are created equal. Some of them have fantastic fitters that do an amazing job. Club Champion fitters are under a tremendous amount of sales pressure though since they were bought out by a private equity firm. This is taken directly from a job application;

● Great compensation for the golf industry. Master Fitters earn a competitive base salary, commission on all sales (uncapped), and a store performance bonus.
● Excellent insurance plans including medical, dental, and vision as well as an optional 401(k) plan
● 3 weeks Paid Time Off(PTO), paid national holidays, and closed on Sundays
● 4 weeks paid training (Club Champion University) for all newly hired Master Fitters, on-going training and learning opportunities for all employees
● Fun perks including incentives (sales contests with prizes like trips and gift cards) and Personal Use Discount on equipment and apparel
● Unlimited growth potential - we value top performers and promote from within (career path to Store Manager and Regional Sales Director)

 Club Champion fitters are called "Golf Equipment Sales/Master Club Fitter" sales first and fitter second. Like any true sales job there is pressure to close business along with it.  Our shop does not pay commission on fittings. We are actually paid by the hour so we can earn over time. I get in at 7:30 AM most days we are open from 9a-6p and leave at 7:30 PM. I also work 6 days a week every other week based on releases training and other things. This allows us to remain brand agnostic, and we can not tell a customer if we are on staff with any OEM's, what we game during a fit, and any other information that might sway a customer. We try to remain as unbiased as possible.

OEM's both club and shaft offer things I know that club champion passes on which sways thoughts. We do not take these and never know who they come from and they are put into a shared pot that we all split evenly. Some OEM's make you take these as part of their agreement. 

Hopefully this shares some insight into their culture, but that being said they have some amazing fitters who know what they are doing, but when you apply sales pressure it removes some objectivity and makes it more like buying a car than investing in clubs. Heck they even pitch financing too which they get a kick back on....

Just my $0.02 sure I would love to make more money, but golf is a game of values morals but more importantly integrity which to me is more important than money.

 

 

 

Interesting insights, thanks for sharing.  I've not heard of 8am before http://www.8amgolf.com/.  I plan to do a complete bag fitting at the TruSpec in Scottsdale this winter but your comments about Club Champion gives me some pause.  


:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver | Official 2019 MGS Tester

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:ping-small: G410 Irons 4-UW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:ping-small: B61 Putter

 

 

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11 minutes ago, mchiller said:

Sounds like you have a solid setup at your place. It has definitely opened up my eyes to the smaller, lesser known fitters and I'll definitely search more for my next fitting. 

I had an iron fitting at Club Champion this spring and it was a really good experience. That being said, I am headed back this week or next as the shafts have not been working out. I don't blame the fitter though. These shafts were the clear winner when I went in for my fitting. The problem may have been that it was early spring so I hadn't been playing as much. I'm interested to see what options I have with CC and their 90 day guarantee. 

@mchiller Let me know how the 90 day guarantee goes.... I am really curious about this and what they do... Please let me know after!!!


Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Interesting insights, thanks for sharing.  I've not heard of 8am before http://www.8amgolf.com/.  I plan to do a complete bag fitting at the TruSpec in Scottsdale this winter but your comments about Club Champion gives me some pause.  

8am owns True Spec and Club Conex... Do not let that stop you from going there though. True Spec is a fantastic place to get a fitting at... They do not hire just anyone... Since you are in Scottsdale I would also check out Cool Clubs... Their HQ is there and I have done a fitting my self with them and it is truly world class. MGS actually uses their data on shafts and is partnered with them. Here is some info from their site;

All Tour Fittings will begin at Cool Clubs Headquarters with an initial club assessment, followed by an outdoor fitting session at Grayhawk Golf Club... They also use the club conex system... They also build in Scottsdale as well.

Have no doubts about true spec they are first class... I personally would choose cool Clubs for a few reasons but the biggest is that golf.com did there top 50 club fitters (https://golf.com/gear/best-50-clubfitters-north-america-directory/) and put true spec #1 which i find an issue since 8am owns both. Cool Clubs actually called them out on this and came in 3rd.. Golf.com went back and edited to add true spec was a sister compnay. My shop made the list but we do pay 8am a lot of money for the club conex (its like a software subscription)... They also had some odd factors but hey it adds street cred... We are also in the golf digest top whatever but that has to do with paper work lol... 

Cool clubs is on the forefront when it comes to fitting and they fit tour players and people fly in from around the globe to do fittings with them... 

I did not tell my fitter anything about my knowledge only told him what I was trying to achieve... I actually went with his driver shaft choice over mine and bought it from him since it was such a solid experience... he nailed my irons/wedges spot on as well... I did not do a putter fitting though... 

 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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36 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@mchiller Let me know how the 90 day guarantee goes.... I am really curious about this and what they do... Please let me know after!!!

I'll do my best to remember!

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2020 at 1:12 PM, doctorgriffo said:

Did you only hit 6 irons? I had a similar experience with p790s, but it gave me issues with gapping at both ends of my bag. I got so excited by the distance I was hitting a 7 iron, the only one I hit in the fitting at a Golfmart, but the reality on the course with a full set of clubs and a range of distances to dial in didn’t work so I took them back. Will you get a chance to hit all the irons? The stock shaft in the p790 Is limited to one option, so I ended up testing Mizuno v Srixon, which have a ton of shaft and grip options at no upcharge.

I went to 4 OEM Performance centres when I was look for new irons, Callaway, Ping, Mizuno and Cobra and all said and did the same thing. Firstly was they identified shaft options, then head options, then I spent the next 1.5 hours hitting shots starting with 6 iron, then 8, then 4, then PW etc. The difference is some cases was chalk and cheese. Hit a certain combination with 6 iron and it felt amazing, hit the 4 or the PW and it was not great.

Edited by Firebird
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Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 48 and 54 Degree Wedges Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Currently Costco Kirkland Performance 3 Piece but Seed 001 is preferred.

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2 hours ago, Firebird said:

I went to 4 OEM Performance centres when I was look for new irons, Callaway, Ping, Mizuno and Cobra and all said and did the same thing. Firstly was they identified shaft options, then head options, then I spent the next 1.5 hours hitting shots starting with 6 iron, then 8, then 4, then PW etc. The difference is some cases was chalk and cheese. Hit a certain combination with 6 iron and it felt amazing, hit the 4 or the PW and it was not great. Eventually we found the combination that provided the best feeling through 4-PW. I had to have graphite shafts due to an illness so it made it a little harder but Mizuno went the extra distance in that they recommended a combination set, Forged 4-7 and Tour 8-PW - fitted with Recoil shafts however 4-6 had 85G, 8-PW were 65G. Came real close to buying this set but in the end it came down to price and the Mizuno set was $320 more that the Callaway Steelhead Pro's and they came with a free Hybrid.

I'm lost....all the "extra distance" someone went.....best feeling 4-PW.....Callaway cheaper so I went that way.  

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:cobra-small: F8 Driver...10.5 degree..Reg

:taylormade-small:  M1 5 Wood....19 (lofted down  to 17 degree) ....Reg

:Sub70:  939 4h...Reg

:mizuno-small: JPX EZ Forged  4i-AW ...Reg

:cleveland-small: 58 deg RX-3

Kirkland KS1 putter

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7 minutes ago, EEZurg said:

I'm lost....all the "extra distance" someone went.....best feeling 4-PW.....Callaway cheaper so I went that way.  

@EEZurg Don’t forget the free hybrid!!! I mean I budget my purchases for sure but price is only a factor when all other things are equal... 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 4H, Mitsubishi Tensei Pro White 90X

UDI:titelist-small: U500 2i, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X

Wedges: :ping-small: Glide Forged, DG TI S400, 52/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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9 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@ncwoz Here is what I noticed from the sample size of swings with the hybrid..... 

.642719549_takeaway2.jpg.638e5acf90a779220c65f39977974fa8.jpgtakeaway.jpg.f72e099be1302d9840e6df95310337ed.jpg

Here is your swing in the takeaway. If you notice you shaft plane is steep for how inside your arms and  hip turn have generated... This causes you a few issues at the top which lead to some other issues in the down swing and could be helped with a proper fitting....

1704860957_topofbs.jpg.e93b844710d237442664c0a2465f68c3.jpg99368803_topofbs2.jpg.1d9490e5891cdfc25825e4e06d6a7df5.jpg

Here you are at the top. You have great flexibility and understand the turn is how you generate power. You are focused on getting to a 90 degree angle at the top which causes you to cup your wrist and throws the club face wide open. You had mentioned that you do get the 2 way miss some times and just from a guess and with not watching more swings I would guess this is the cause. Also the club breaks and comes back around your head. People focus on the club head when its really the depth of your hands that is important. Below is a photo of justin rose where he had a similar top and then the changes he has made to get more hand depth

2109416334_compariosntopofBS.jpg.aa136309cbeebe5d68f3f22b50ab7bd8.jpg

No cupping greater hand depth actually allows the club to travel a greater distance and gain more speed. Rose hits the ball much farther today than he did in 2000.

1130558239_shaftload.jpg.66d1f719c25302bc82f7f66794f6aaf6.jpg

Here is you loading the shaft. I try to fit people into hybrids that come with multiple options such as Ping Titleist and Mizuno. The Even Flow black hybrid weighs around 85g uncut depending on if you have the hand crated version or not. It has a super thick butt .625 vs .600 standard this creates a really stiff but section they soften the middle and has a stiff tip... Low launch and low spin profile. You have no issue loading it but this is where the shaft comes into play. Depending on your iron swing this is where I have some ideas on shafts that might work well for you and help achieve your goals.

impact.jpg.169455c5b1397a1db1b853832cc96270.jpg

Here is your swing at impact... Because of the things created in the back swing you have to extend early a bit. You look to be a solid athlete so you are able to compensate still generate club head speed but this is where the big miss can come in. 

1582138229_postimpact.jpg.f9b8b49ce00178991fb9e8fac990ebf1.jpg632550279_postimpact2.jpg.64a47758ab1738699d0e7d048bad0a54.jpg1339305595_impactBrandondraw.jpg.c21b082679dd019cebdb0a74ad7791ed.jpg

At post impact because of the early extension you have to release the club extremely quickly because your turn is so fast and you have to race to catch up. This is a recepie for a pull/hook/over draw... Combined with your shut club to your target line due to either to strong of grip or that combined with your release you get your miss. Again you look to be a great athlete so you can do things most people can not because of your athletic ability. You have naturally aimed far to the right to help compensate for the draw and the miss (look at impact photo).  The other thing I see is that your shoulders have already closed to your target at impact. This is me playing a slight draw to that pitching pin. My face is closing to my target but my shoulders and arms almost form a line as everything releases. I did a wedge shot just to get the right positions I still need a lot of work to get to where I want but if I had any shot I was least likely to mess up its this one.

1625133724_tigerhittingadraw.jpg.4d8cf3cd1f4aa4a3f72d4963f702ca63.jpg

Here is the goat hitting a draw with a metal wood. He is the best at positions of all time. If you look at halfway his shaft is perfectly in line with the ball... He gets so much depth in his swing and his club looks 90 face on but down the line you can see he has created a good 120+ angle from the target where yours is smaller. His wrist is also perfectly flat. His impact is so pure. He has squatted down shoulders open to the his target face squaring up into a perfect release with the ball taking off to the right and will draw slightly back in. If you look at the post impact from release the lines are almost identical.

This is what I do in the second phase of a fit. I use V1 software so I can do side by side before and afters and such. Sometimes honestly I tell people to change their fitting to a fitting lesson combo so that the equipment the might get actually gives a greater impact.

 

As I am writing this I see you have posted a few things back so I will end here and give some recommendations 

 

8 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@ncwoz Thanks this helps with the recommendations and final thoughts. That maple hill place looks solid. They also sell pre-owned gear on the website so they care about your pocket book. With your athletic background it makes sense that your hips turn fast since you have to pivot as a guard very quickly.

I do think some equipment changes would help you achieve your goals.

Please take this with a grain of salt since I have not seen any launch monitor data or ball flights. That being said 108mph in your hybrid you are not getting enough or what you could/should at 18 deg. of loft.

196495871_Balldata.jpg.a495f18535001a5b9e036fffeeae97f7.jpg

We use Foresight which I prefer but this is some data to look at for your next fitting. This is a TM M6 22 deg. with Tensei Pro white 90TX 4H at 40" it was just too hot and with lack of launch and spin no chance of holding a green. by going up in weight of the shaft (100TX) and changing the head we were able to increase spin by 1000 RPM and increase the launch and ball speed which took carry to 240ish and would hold greens.

108MPH you could be getting a lot more as I mentioned. I will scale this down into the irons but 108 MPH with a hybrid is extremely fast...

First adding +1/4" to a shaft makes the club play about 1/2 deg. more upright to begin with. I am 6'1" as well and I play standard lengths (37" 7i) but I do play +1/4" in my wedges. Your arms might be longer than mine which is where playing length and starting loft and lie will take place and work from there. My playing partner is the same height as me with much longer arms and plays +1/4" and 2 up (64 lie 7i) were I am standard and -2 flat (61 lie 7i)... Every club manufacturer uses different standard lies but Taylormade / Titlesit / callaway use around 63 / 63.5 as their standard to help sell more clubs off the shelf. a good fitter can help you dial this in and if they say cast clubs can not be bent they are wrong.

The bigger thing for you will be offset in the club head. Players distance irons tend to have more offset than players irons. you can reduce offset by weakening the lofts but its better to start with something with less at the standard loft. Offset is designed to allow the club square up since most people struggle releasing the club. you release early so this is contributing to the hooks. I would look at the ping i500 Mizuno JPX 919 forged (921 about to come out) and throw some players irons to test like the T-100's JPX tours. 

I would guess your ball flight lacks launch and maybe some spin since the p-790 only went 200 yards of carry. You have some serious speed and should be able to get 210+ out of that 6i and stopping power.

I would not describe your swing as aggressive actually I would say its pretty smooth and moderate.  

The iron shaft you should try is the nippon modus 120x 120tx and 130x. These are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as profiles go but the 120 X/TX can help as you learn to release the club better. It has a very soft butt section which will help you feel the club head better. The tip is the stiffest around which will help stabilize deflection at impact. the 130x is the opposite sort of but I think the extra weight might help you time better and get to a better plane. It also has a much softer tip which can help promote a little higher launch. I game the 120X  and many tour players do like tony finau who crushes the ball... You should also try the KBS tour X and Tour v X and TX and they fall sort of in between the 2 nippons. Also give the DG 120 X100 a try too. The DG 120 X100 will be very close to the 1150 nippon. Whatever you decide get some DG TI S400 wedge shafts for GW/SW/LW if you look on tour I would say 90-95% of pros have this in their wedges. its the gold standard of wedge shafts.

In your hybrid I would go with a Graphite Design tour AD-DI or Tour AD-IZ in the 95x Mitsubishi Tensei Pro Blue 90TX  Mitsubishi Tensei Pro white 90-100 X/TX the X were made especially for Titlesit but they are so close. You can probably nab a titlest for $30 somewhere. In all of these shafts the softer butt section will help you feel load and release better.

This should help get you on your way... weight is your friend with your speed and offset can be your enemy... The last thing is the grip I am not sure how large your hands are but if you wear a L glove use a midsize grip. I have large hands L/XL and I use the Lamkin TS1 midsize. It has reduced taper like the sonar to help reduce wrist roll (reduce hook) its much firmer though and will help get your grip pressure better at your speed... Soft grips at your speed might cause some issues... On tour everyone uses the GP BCT because of how firm it is and similar speeds to yourself... we just cant get in a midsize and the zcord along with the Lamkin full cord  is another option they just dont have the reduced taper lower hand and would have to be built up.

Fitting is so important and makes huge differences in your game. Let me know if you what some metal wood ideas based on my guesses, and if you do provide me as much info and which shaft you like better between your driver and 3w....

let me know any other questions you might have, but I would say do another iron fitting and tell them about the Club Champion experience and where you are in your game and where you want to be... The things I asked you are all things I ask when I do a fit. Also make sure they have some type of guarantee.  If you buy new or used clubs with a fit and they do not work we do a free 30 min eval/lesson and offer 60 day exchange and refit... Also if you buy the clubs the day of the fit we discount the fitting.... we do everything we can to help the customer...

 

First of all, WOW. Thank you so much for all the time and thought you put into these posts, I am extremely grateful and humbled that you were willing to offer your knowledge and thorough information, especially to a stranger literally across the country!

That all makes really good sense to me, again, seriously thank you for going into the depth both on my swing and on the potential variables and directions to try out for clubs. I think the only thing I lost you on was the getting to 90° at the top, and that Tiger is getting 120°. What angle are you referring to there?

I almost feel bad asking for your thoughts on my driver and 3w, but you obviously know your stuff extremely well and I think I'd be silly not to take you up on at least your hunches of good directions to seek out. I have the Fujikura MotoreF1 65 Stiff shaft in my driver (R9 SuperTri 9.5°) and the Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff in my 3W (15° X2 Hot). I bought both of them before I knew of MGS, and at that point I'm not even sure I knew that extra stiff shafts existed, let alone that I might need one. I'm sure the stiffness incompatibility doesn't help either of them, but I'm not sure if I could really well discern which shaft I like better. The Aldila feels like the head gets a little loose on me if that makes sense, but the Fujikura feels like it's pretty light. I'll be honest with you though, I've not swung a ton of different shafts so I don't have much to compare to and am mostly just trying to give you as much info as I can.

Again, thank you @Manimal26 for your time and willingness to impart your expertise! I think if I lived anywhere near Fort Worth I'd be headed your way for a fitting in person!

  • Like 2

Right Handed

Driver (9.5°): :taylormade-small: R9 SupterTri (Fujikura MotoreF1 65 Stiff shaft)

FW (15°): :callaway-logo-1: X2 Hot (Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff shaft)

Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

Irons (PW-3) :ping-small: Eye 2's

Wedges (52° & 60°): :callaway-logo-1: Mack Daddy 2's

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour

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7 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

First, it sounds like the $100 for the fitting was money well spent.  That you were able to identify a shaft that really showed itself amongst the rest is great - except that it sounds like an outlier that is not offered as an option or without significant upcharge.  Still, I think that's a pretty important finding and, with the idea of a fitting to define the best set-up for your game, it would be hard not to go with it.  

How many other brand/model club heads did you try?  Club Champion has lots of options that are less money; Wilson, Tour Edge, Cobra for example that might help get the price down to something you can stomach.  I suppose this is a risk we all face going into a fitting... the Miura irons with an upcharge shaft laps the contenders 😬.

Oh man, now you've got me digging into the memory banks a bit;) That was actually another thing I wasn't super impressed by the fitter with, he didn't really even say which heads we were going to try. Not sure why I didn't just ask or look myself, I guess I just got caught up in the moment.

I know for sure I also hit the Apex (forged I think), i500s, MP20 HMBs, and I think also the T200s. There were probably another two or three heads I'm forgetting/didn't register the day of as well.

  • Like 1

Right Handed

Driver (9.5°): :taylormade-small: R9 SupterTri (Fujikura MotoreF1 65 Stiff shaft)

FW (15°): :callaway-logo-1: X2 Hot (Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff shaft)

Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

Irons (PW-3) :ping-small: Eye 2's

Wedges (52° & 60°): :callaway-logo-1: Mack Daddy 2's

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour

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