AppGator Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Hey Spies, Just finished the No Putts Given episode on personal launch monitors and I think that the Trackmans and the Flightscope companies should make a personal launch monitor that gives data similar to Shot Tracer. Akin to catering to the people who don't care how the sausage is made, this monitor won't spit out Ball speed, Spin Rates, AoA, etc. but maybe focus on the information about the ball flight: Yardage Yards Offline Left or Right from the "Target Line" (in relation to the position of the monitor which is assumed to be some 10 feet behind the ball) Peak Height? Maybe also have a camera so that it makes a shot tracer video? The selling point would be to give golfers an idea to where their ball ended up (helping pace of play), shot tracer video they can share, and just enough data for those using it as a DIY fitting tool. Obviously getting professionally fitted with a GC Quad or Trackman would give you more data, but that's when you buy the flagship product (therefore, even if these companies were to develop this product it wouldn't undercut their top of the line product). What do you all think? Is this something worth developing? Would you buy it? Does it fit in the market and satisfy the requirement of not threatening sales of the fully spec'd launch monitors? Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2puttbogey Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Could be a good took for the range. I don't know too many people that are really in the market for a personal launch monitor, but I think if ranges rented them out it would get some traction. Knowing your distances and checking them periodically makes sense, but does the average golfer need own a launch monitor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Could be a good took for the range. I don't know too many people that are really in the market for a personal launch monitor, but I think if ranges rented them out it would get some traction. Knowing your distances and checking them periodically makes sense, but does the average golfer need own a launch monitor?If they can get the right balance of portable size and price point, it would be good for gapping your clubs, dialing your distances on the range, or seeing if those swing changes are making a difference. On the course, it would be helpful in knowing where your wayward tee shot ended up. Basically, it's a suggestion to what they proposed on the podcast for a cheaper stepped down version of a launch monitor that could be developed by a Trackman or a Foresight to market to the average golfer.But I agree that the average golfer would not be interested in a GC Quad (present company excluded) ;)Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cnosil Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, 2puttbogey said: t does the average golfer need own a launch monitor? Define average golfer? In my opinion if you are on MGS (or any golf forum) you are not and average golfer. And yes, I would love to have a launch montor. I love the information that is presented on the GC Quad and would be happy to own a Skytrak. ncwoz, HeathS16, sirchunksalot and 10 others 13 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Define average golfer? In my opinion if you are on MGS (or any golf forum) you are not and average golfer. And yes, I would love to have a launch montor. I love the information that is presented on the GC Quad and would be happy to own a Skytrak. Mark me down for GC Quad but I'd actually pay for an affordable launch monitor that provides accurate ball flight info over a watered down GC Quad or Trackman-like productSent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk MyWifesSwingCoach, TBT, cnosil and 2 others 5 Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowNLow Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) All I know is soon it will be cold in 4 mos and the local golf dome may not be an option, so I am looking at a net and a mat in the garage, determining the quality of strike in 8-12 ft. of travel will be difficult. The more info the better, but for sure something with side spin, ball speed, launch angle, angle of attack, clubface angle at impact, is good stuff. GC Quad works for me, maybe a very mad divorcee will dump one in a garage sale. Edited July 16, 2020 by SlowNLow JohnSmalls, cnosil and MyWifesSwingCoach 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLooper Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 If they bundled it with good software for a range and simulator play, I might be interested. Then again, I'm the not-so-proud owner of an Optishot, so what do I know? Have any of you played around with apps like B-FIT or ShotVision? I'm wondering when we'll have launch monitor apps that are at least SkyTrak quality. I agree with Tony, the big guys in this business have no interest in cannibalizing the $20K per unit business that they're in right now with a $500 unit that does 98% of what the more expensive unit does. However, someone not currently in the high-end LM business is going to crack this nut at some point and develop that $500 model. If the big guys are smart, they're working on this as well and will have something they can launch beforehand. Because that $500 unit that has 98% of the functionality will likely kill the market for the $20K LM. JohnSmalls, cnosil, AppGator and 4 others 7 Quote What's in the bag: Driver - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Wood (13.5*) - 980F 4 Wood (18*) - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Hybrid (19*) - RBZ 4i - PW - D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S ) 52* - CBX 58* - CBX Full Face 2 Putter - Craz-e Bag - 2.5 (Blue) Ball - AVX Instagram - @hardcorelooper Twitter - @meovino Facebook - mike.eovino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 For me, it's irrelevant if I'm just going to be hitting range balls with it. I'm hoping that Foresight comes out with some kind of affordable home version soon so I can setup a simulator at home when I have somewhere that has the space for it! THEZIPR23, cnosil, edingc and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edingc Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, yungkory said: For me, it's irrelevant if I'm just going to be hitting range balls with it. I'm hoping that Foresight comes out with some kind of affordable home version soon so I can setup a simulator at home when I have somewhere that has the space for it! I had this same discussion with my brother-in-law a few weeks ago. With SkyTrak hardware being like five years old at this point, there certainly seems like a market for a $1k or less photometric device for those of us with limited space. I'd be all over that. I don't think I would go to a range anymore if I didn't have my Mevo. Sure, range balls are not 100 percent comparable to real balls, but you can extrapolate a bit and find a reasonable average. Also, love the video clipping feature. JohnSmalls, tony@CIC, fozcycle and 3 others 6 Quote Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024) Driver: Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post 3 Wood: Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X 20° Hybrid: PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X 4 Utility: Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff 5-PW: Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting 50°, 54°, 58°: Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread Putter: L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review Grips: Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up Ball: Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow Tracked By: Shot Scope H4 Bag: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync Riding On: Bag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls | 2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 If they bundled it with good software for a range and simulator play, I might be interested. Then again, I'm the not-so-proud owner of an Optishot, so what do I know? Have any of you played around with apps like B-FIT or ShotVision? I'm wondering when we'll have launch monitor apps that are at least SkyTrak quality. I agree with Tony, the big guys in this business have no interest in cannibalizing the $20K per unit business that they're in right now with a $500 unit that does 98% of what the more expensive unit does. However, someone not currently in the high-end LM business is going to crack this nut at some point and develop that $500 model. If the big guys are smart, they're working on this as well and will have something they can launch beforehand. Because that $500 unit that has 98% of the functionality will likely kill the market for the $20K LM.By the time they advance to there being multiple ultra portable launch monitors, the big OEMs will develop some advantage in the presentation (augmented reality or live virtual fitting) or even better accuracy. Drawing comparisons back to the podcast and the computer analogy. It's not like all the big companies folded as new competitors came into the market, they either flourished more (Apple), just became more specialized (HP - 3D printing?) or occupy a space that fits their model (Microsoft). These guys are still trying to get better and they have the advantage of already having brought a product to market, aside from having an already developed brand. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk tony@CIC 1 Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, edingc said: I had this same discussion with my brother-in-law a few weeks ago. With SkyTrak hardware being like five years old at this point, there certainly seems like a market for a $1k or less photometric device for those of us with limited space. I'd be all over that. I don't think I would go to a range anymore if I didn't have my Mevo. Sure, range balls are not 100 percent comparable to real balls, but you can extrapolate a bit and find a reasonable average. Also, love the video clipping feature. If it gave me club path data, then it would be useful for me for sure. My main issue is swinging too far from the inside, so when I implement changes, I like to see the results in hard data. Not knocking you if you're finding positive feedback for you, just wouldn't justify using it for me personally and my goals. HardcoreLooper, THEZIPR23, cnosil and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 I had this same discussion with my brother-in-law a few weeks ago. With SkyTrak hardware being like five years old at this point, there certainly seems like a market for a $1k or less photometric device for those of us with limited space. I'd be all over that. I don't think I would go to a range anymore if I didn't have my Mevo. Sure, range balls are not 100 percent comparable to real balls, but you can extrapolate a bit and find a reasonable average. Also, love the video clipping feature.It goes back to how much you would pay for something that's just close in accuracy. It's like having yard sticks of different lengths that still claim they're a yard - you'd want the most accurate for measuring if you want the actual numbers of the club head and ball. I think, referring to the OP, giving a read out of what the ball did (yardage, yardage offline, peak height) would be non-threatening enough for a Trackman or Foresight to want to develop since they are arguably the leaders. The information would also have usefulness on the range and course so as not to be a novelty.Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk edingc and tony@CIC 2 Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edingc Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Just now, yungkory said: If it gave me club path data, then it would be useful for me for sure. My main issue is swinging too far from the inside, so when I implement changes, I like to see the results in hard data. Not knocking you if you're finding positive feedback for you, just wouldn't justify using it for me personally and my goals. Yeah, that's the big bummer about anything outside of Trackman and GCQuad with the club tracking. Really doesn't help with that kind of stuff. Someday there will have to be a cheaper device that's capable of doing it. One of the biggest draws to my instructor is that he has Trackman and seeing the numbers change helps reinforce what I'm trying to do in my swing. I 100 percent understand where you are coming from. Mevo/Swing Caddie/etc. are just as much for fun as anything else. yungkory, fozcycle and tony@CIC 3 Quote Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024) Driver: Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post 3 Wood: Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X 20° Hybrid: PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X 4 Utility: Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff 5-PW: Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting 50°, 54°, 58°: Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread Putter: L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review Grips: Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up Ball: Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow Tracked By: Shot Scope H4 Bag: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync Riding On: Bag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls | 2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2puttbogey Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 15 hours ago, AppGator said: On the course, it would be helpful in knowing where your wayward tee shot ended up. Just no. On the course is not the place to be breaking out a launch monitor. Pace of play is already an issue. 15 hours ago, cnosil said: Define average golfer? In my opinion if you are on MGS (or any golf forum) you are not and average golfer. A person that plays once a week and practices once or twice a week. This is probably more than an average golfer (this is about where I fall), but most likely the starting point for someone that may be the target audience. 14 hours ago, SlowNLow said: All I know is soon it will be cold in 4 mos and the local golf dome may not be an option, so I am looking at a net and a mat in the garage, determining the quality of strike in 8-12 ft. of travel will be difficult. It completely makes sense for this reason, and I didn't even think about that. Sorry I am spoiled. I live where I can play year round. I only thought of it from the going to the range perspective not about using it on the off season. I can see the appeal better from this perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Just no. On the course is not the place to be breaking out a launch monitor. Pace of play is already an issue.Yes, pulling out a Trackman would slow things down. But assuming a smaller, compact launch monitor (Mevo size) that you can set up at the tee box and relays each person's tee shot regarding how far off line and how long it went down the fairway prior to curving away would make it easier to find the ball.Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, 2puttbogey said: A person that plays once a week and practices once or twice a week. This is probably more than an average golfer (this is about where I fall), but most likely the starting point for someone that may be the target audience. I guess I am an average golfer. I prefer more information that the basic launch monitor provides. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2puttbogey Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, AppGator said: 6 hours ago, AppGator said: Yes, pulling out a Trackman would slow things down. But assuming a smaller, compact launch monitor (Mevo size) that you can set up at the tee box and relays each person's tee shot regarding how far off line and how long it went down the fairway prior to curving away would make it easier to find the ball. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk I could see it done sometimes, but it has the potential to spiral out of control if everyone needs to start seeing their shots from the fairway too. ( Sorry about the format my tablet was not cooperating) Edited July 16, 2020 by 2puttbogey Format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2puttbogey Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 I could see it done sometimes, but it has the potential to spiral out of control if everyone needs to start seeing their shots from the fairway too. ( Sorry my tablet was not playing nice so I did a repost so it's easier to read) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMUSC08 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 someone just needs to come up with the software for a iphone or ipad and your'e golden. tony@CIC, CKYGolfer, MyWifesSwingCoach and 1 other 4 Quote Charleston, SC HDCP 13.0 Driver: M6 9* with 65g Stiff Mitsubishi Tensei Red shaft 3 wood: G425 stiff shaft 5 wood: Stealth 2 stiff shaft 4-gw irons: JPX 921 Hot Metal w/ X-stiff KBS 130gr shafts (soft stepped) Wedges: MG3 52, 56, 60 Putter: 34" Scotty Cameron 12.5 Ball: ProV-1x Tracked By: MGS Tester '20 - G710 Iron Review MGS Tester '19 - Precision Pro NX9 HD Pro laser rangefinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLooper Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 7:28 AM, AppGator said: By the time they advance to there being multiple ultra portable launch monitors, the big OEMs will develop some advantage in the presentation (augmented reality or live virtual fitting) or even better accuracy. Drawing comparisons back to the podcast and the computer analogy. It's not like all the big companies folded as new competitors came into the market, they either flourished more (Apple), just became more specialized (HP - 3D printing?) or occupy a space that fits their model (Microsoft). These guys are still trying to get better and they have the advantage of already having brought a product to market, aside from having an already developed brand. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk I'm thinking of it more like mainframes vs. x86 computing. Most of the players in the market who tried to continue to specialize in mainframes are long gone, but IBM*, Unisys and Fujitsu have survived by diversifying beyond them. *Full disclosure, I work for Red Hat, so I guess I'm technically an IBM'er. yungkory and AppGator 2 Quote What's in the bag: Driver - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Wood (13.5*) - 980F 4 Wood (18*) - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Hybrid (19*) - RBZ 4i - PW - D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S ) 52* - CBX 58* - CBX Full Face 2 Putter - Craz-e Bag - 2.5 (Blue) Ball - AVX Instagram - @hardcorelooper Twitter - @meovino Facebook - mike.eovino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerospace_ray Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I would purchase something like this if its quality and reasonably accurate given the price point............ Have often thought while practicing on range and/or par 3 course I like that I would love to have something like what shows on tv regarding shot tracing, carry distance and then other specs I am interested in (AOA, smash factor, etc). Tall order I know but hey technology and I dream big. MDGolfHacker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 10 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said: I'm thinking of it more like mainframes vs. x86 computing. Most of the players in the market who tried to continue to specialize in mainframes are long gone, but IBM*, Unisys and Fujitsu have survived by diversifying beyond them. *Full disclosure, I work Red Hat, so I guess I'm technically an IBM'er. When I listened to the discussion on the podcast I thought of it this way: back when I started getting PC's, they cost about $2000. As time passed and new models came out the new models cost about $2000 and the older lower powered were less. Fast forward to today, a decent powered PC is about $2000. Yes, I can get one for $500 but it is lowered powered and generally limited to things like surfing the net and word processes. With the $2000 model I can do most everything I would ever want. However if I am a serious gamer, I probably want to upgrade and get more power.....meaning more cost. The launch monitor market is basically the same: Trackman/Foresight are $10K plus. As they grew in capability, we started got Skytrack for about $2K. As time progressed those technologies still advanced and we now have basic $500 models. As technology continues to advance, the things that make the $10K models cost $10K will become cheaper and smaller and be replaced by better more expensive things. So the $10K models will continue to get better, the cheaper components will filter down to the $2K model and they $2K tech will move to the $500 models. I believe that in 5 years we will have the capability/quality of Skytrak in sub $500 models. aerospace_ray, AppGator, HardcoreLooper and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I think it will all depend on how expensive the cameras or Doppler tech are/become. Not sure if TM/Foresight are manufacturing their parts or buying them but I'm willing to bet that's the majority of the cost. Then, on top of that they're overcharging for their software licenses. Over the stay at home orders in April, I know a few people who got in a group buy for quads with a net and mat for $10k. Not sure what software it included and if that was for the 4-camera version (the one that includes club tracking) but that's a pretty decent price if it wasn't a watered down version. HardcoreLooper and MDGolfHacker 2 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 The average golfer is still hitting s***** range balls, so the quality of launch monitor really doesn’t matter RickyBobby_PR and yungkory 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 I think it will all depend on how expensive the cameras or Doppler tech are/become. Not sure if TM/Foresight are manufacturing their parts or buying them but I'm willing to bet that's the majority of the cost. Then, on top of that they're overcharging for their software licenses. Over the stay at home orders in April, I know a few people who got in a group buy for quads with a net and mat for $10k. Not sure what software it included and if that was for the 4-camera version (the one that includes club tracking) but that's a pretty decent price if it wasn't a watered down version.I'd love to find a bunch of friends willing to split the price of a GC Quad (fantasy). It's hard to justify if you're not going to make money from it. I love knowing all the numbers.But the podcast discussed that the launch monitor guys are at the mercy of the Doppler people who might not have too much incentive to make the tech smaller. The price for renting a bay with a Trackman here in Raleigh is $44/hr. Not bad for seeing your yardage gaps if you're efficient cycling through your bag. A fitting would require more time and knowledge of available equipment, so I might shell out the $100 to work with my fitter and know that I'm getting the right thing. So, getting a hold of a quality launch monitor is relatively easy. Unfortunately, that might not be the case elsewhere. I'm not much for buying something cheaper that is only close to accurate, thereby classifying it as relatively inaccurate. If I'm buying it, I want the number not something close. To reiterate the OP, I think the Flightscopes and Trackmans do have an incentive to bring a product to market at a reasonable price ($500) that only relays basic information about ball flight (yardage, peak height, yards off-line) so as not to be a direct competitor to their own enterprise models. The key being that the basic information is as accurate as their enterprise models.Giving yardage and peak height helps the golfer know more about their yardage gaps and gives them a way to track wayward tee shots on the course. A golfer could also use peak height to extrapolate if they are hitting it high enough to hold a green (the preferred number would be decent angle) or even their driver launch angle/spin numbers based on peak height and if the ball looked like it spun up to that height and the resultant carry distance. If they want or need to know the real number (2.9k vs. 2.4k ball spin off a driver), well then that's when they go to a fitter who will have a GC Quad or Trackman. I agree with Adam and Harry that the launch monitor in player bags at your local course will be trending in the future. But I'm proposing a solution to get the Enterprise companies involved without cannibalizing their exceptional products.Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk aerospace_ray 1 Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppGator Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 The average golfer is still hitting s***** range balls, so the quality of launch monitor really doesn’t matter Can you imagine your average golfer using a personal launch monitor to fit themselves into the right ball using a net? They could then use that ball to get their numbers right from the comfort of their own home.Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk KurtActual 1 Quote AppGator Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff) Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular) Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular) Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW 35.50" 45 degrees Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade Right-handed Raleigh, NC 15 hcp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, AppGator said: Can you imagine your average golfer using a personal launch monitor to fit themselves into the right ball using a net? They could then use that ball to get their numbers right from the comfort of their own home. Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk I think the key word in all of this is "average." The average golfer will never buy a launch monitor. They want to buy some golf equipment to impress their buddies, play some golf, and drink a few beers. The diehard golf junkie is the person that will buy a monitor to work on their game. MDGolfHacker and RickyBobby_PR 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, cnosil said: I think the key word in all of this is "average." The average golfer will never buy a launch monitor. They want to buy some golf equipment to impress their buddies, play some golf, and drink a few beers. The diehard golf junkie is the person that will buy a monitor to work on their game. Exactly. Everyone forgets the average golfer doesn’t really practice, they buy off the rack and rarely get fit. I play with lots of average golfers in my normal group and play a lot as a single and come across many avg golfers. Most have no idea what their shafts are or If they have a low/low, high/high or anything in between cnosil, aerospace_ray and SlowNLow 3 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLooper Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 11 hours ago, cnosil said: When I listened to the discussion on the podcast I thought of it this way: back when I started getting PC's, they cost about $2000. As time passed and new models came out the new models cost about $2000 and the older lower powered were less. Fast forward to today, a decent powered PC is about $2000. Yes, I can get one for $500 but it is lowered powered and generally limited to things like surfing the net and word processes. With the $2000 model I can do most everything I would ever want. However if I am a serious gamer, I probably want to upgrade and get more power.....meaning more cost. The launch monitor market is basically the same: Trackman/Foresight are $10K plus. As they grew in capability, we started got Skytrack for about $2K. As time progressed those technologies still advanced and we now have basic $500 models. As technology continues to advance, the things that make the $10K models cost $10K will become cheaper and smaller and be replaced by better more expensive things. So the $10K models will continue to get better, the cheaper components will filter down to the $2K model and they $2K tech will move to the $500 models. I believe that in 5 years we will have the capability/quality of Skytrak in sub $500 models. @cnosil - You and I will always buy that higher-end PC and find new things to do with it. But my parents, who've been running a home-based travel agency for the last 20 years or so and really only need web access and word processing have been continually buying cheaper and cheaper PCs. They needed to buy the $2000 PC when they started their business, because that's all there was. Now they have a choice, and they can buy something that does everything they need, and they can pay less for it. There's always going to be a high-end market, because some people will always find ways to take advantage of the new functionality. But as the low-end gets better, more and more consumers will trade down and get everything they need without paying for what they don't. As long as the low end of that market is big enough, someone's going to try to serve it. And this market isn't just golf. It's baseball, softball, and soccer as well. You're absolutely right about us having Skytrak-quality LMs (or better) for under $500 in five years or less. And that's going to be good enough for lots of people. Our First Tee locations have three Trackman systems. We don't need anything that good (I'm pretty sure we got some kind of ridiculous deal). Skytrak would be fine. A sub $500 device would be even better. MDGolfHacker and cnosil 2 Quote What's in the bag: Driver - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Wood (13.5*) - 980F 4 Wood (18*) - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Hybrid (19*) - RBZ 4i - PW - D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S ) 52* - CBX 58* - CBX Full Face 2 Putter - Craz-e Bag - 2.5 (Blue) Ball - AVX Instagram - @hardcorelooper Twitter - @meovino Facebook - mike.eovino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowNLow Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) On 7/18/2020 at 3:45 PM, RickyBobby_PR said: Exactly. Everyone forgets the average golfer doesn’t really practice, they buy off the rack and rarely get fit. I play with lots of average golfers in my normal group and play a lot as a single and come across many avg golfers. Most have no idea what their shafts are or If they have a low/low, high/high or anything in between Yes sir. Average golfers....my golf league Guys in my golf league have no idea what the difference is between a stock shaft and an aftermarket shaft, one guy accused me of having an illegal driver because I had a Paderson shaft paired in a TM M2. All of their equipment comes right from DSG or Golf Galaxy. They pick a club up out of the rack, waggled it, then walk right up to the cashier. One day I informally surveyed 6-8 of them and not one of them knew what "bounce' was. The other 12 wouldn't have known it either. None of them realize that there is no industry standard for shaft flex. Forget about CPMs., bend points, stiff tips, soft-steppiing, etc. None of them know what size grip they need, or how to determine what size they need. Nor do they know what can result from playing with a grip that is too small or too large. Most of them have grips from the Bush administration. (Both Bushes) They have no idea why a 6 iron goes farther than a 7 iron, or why a modern day 7 iron is what a 6 iron used to be. Golf ball compression, different covers, why is bad if the core of a golf ball isn't centered? (Just had this conversation last week, tried using the example of what putting with a egg would be like, didn't work out very well.) No lessons, no Youtube videos, not even Paige Spiranac, no reading, for sure no MGS. All of these guys have been playing golf at least 40 years some longer. They go on buddy trips 3-4 times a year. A couple of them play pretty well, but most of them play the same way or worse, year after year after year. Sometimes It is just stunning. Launch angle? SIde spin? D-plane? (wouldn't even try), clubhead speed, (this is a popular one) Ball speed? who cares about that? (another conversation I had actually), One guy, a college educated professional, hits the driver with about 80 degrees of launch, about 6000 RPMs, a "high fade", and he has been hitting this same shot since 1992. Doesn't take lessons, change equipment, ask for advice, read a book, watch a Paige video, nothing. For 28 years. Then again, my yard does look like crap. I have no time for that, I have to work on my short game. Edited July 26, 2020 by SlowNLow Typos RickyBobby_PR, HardcoreLooper, tony@CIC and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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