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I would purchase something like this if its quality and reasonably accurate given the price point............ Have often thought while practicing on range and/or par 3 course I like that I would love to have something like what shows on tv regarding shot tracing, carry distance and then other specs I am interested in (AOA, smash factor, etc). Tall order I know but hey technology and I dream big. 😃

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10 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

I'm thinking of it more like mainframes vs. x86 computing.  Most of the players in the market who tried to continue to specialize in mainframes are long gone, but IBM*, Unisys and Fujitsu have survived by diversifying beyond them.  

 

 

*Full disclosure, I work Red Hat, so I guess I'm technically an IBM'er.

 

When I listened to the discussion on the podcast I thought of it this way:  back when I started getting PC's,  they cost about $2000.   As time passed and new models came out the new models cost about $2000 and the older lower powered were less.  Fast forward to today,  a decent powered PC is about $2000.   Yes,  I can get one for $500 but it is lowered powered and generally limited to things like surfing the net and word processes.   With the $2000 model I can do most everything I would ever want.   However if I am a serious gamer,  I probably want to upgrade and get more power.....meaning more cost.    

The launch monitor market is basically the same:   Trackman/Foresight are $10K plus.  As they grew in capability,  we started got Skytrack for about $2K.   As time progressed those technologies still advanced and we now have basic $500 models.  As technology continues to advance,  the things that make the $10K models cost $10K will become cheaper and smaller and be replaced by better more expensive things.   So the $10K models will continue to get better,  the cheaper components will filter down to the $2K model and they $2K tech will move to the $500 models.    I believe that in 5 years we will have the capability/quality  of Skytrak in sub $500 models.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :taylormade-small:TM-180

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I think it will all depend on how expensive the cameras or Doppler tech are/become. Not sure if TM/Foresight are manufacturing their parts or buying them but I'm willing to bet that's the majority of the cost. Then, on top of that they're overcharging for their software licenses.

Over the stay at home orders in April, I know a few people who got in a group buy for quads with a net and mat for $10k. Not sure what software it included and if that was for the 4-camera version (the one that includes club tracking) but that's a pretty decent price if it wasn't a watered down version.

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3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue 75S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: JPX 919 Forged Nippon Modus 3 Tour 105 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Modus 3 115 Wedge

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1, 34.5", BGT Stability Tour, 71* lie angle, Press II 3* Grip

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The average golfer is still hitting s***** range balls, so the quality of launch monitor really doesn’t matter 

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:ping-small: G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
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I think it will all depend on how expensive the cameras or Doppler tech are/become. Not sure if TM/Foresight are manufacturing their parts or buying them but I'm willing to bet that's the majority of the cost. Then, on top of that they're overcharging for their software licenses.
Over the stay at home orders in April, I know a few people who got in a group buy for quads with a net and mat for $10k. Not sure what software it included and if that was for the 4-camera version (the one that includes club tracking) but that's a pretty decent price if it wasn't a watered down version.
I'd love to find a bunch of friends willing to split the price of a GC Quad (fantasy). It's hard to justify if you're not going to make money from it. I love knowing all the numbers.

But the podcast discussed that the launch monitor guys are at the mercy of the Doppler people who might not have too much incentive to make the tech smaller.

The price for renting a bay with a Trackman here in Raleigh is $44/hr. Not bad for seeing your yardage gaps if you're efficient cycling through your bag. A fitting would require more time and knowledge of available equipment, so I might shell out the $100 to work with my fitter and know that I'm getting the right thing. So, getting a hold of a quality launch monitor is relatively easy. Unfortunately, that might not be the case elsewhere.

I'm not much for buying something cheaper that is only close to accurate, thereby classifying it as relatively inaccurate. If I'm buying it, I want the number not something close.

To reiterate the OP, I think the Flightscopes and Trackmans do have an incentive to bring a product to market at a reasonable price ($500) that only relays basic information about ball flight (yardage, peak height, yards off-line) so as not to be a direct competitor to their own enterprise models. The key being that the basic information is as accurate as their enterprise models.

Giving yardage and peak height helps the golfer know more about their yardage gaps and gives them a way to track wayward tee shots on the course. A golfer could also use peak height to extrapolate if they are hitting it high enough to hold a green (the preferred number would be decent angle) or even their driver launch angle/spin numbers based on peak height and if the ball looked like it spun up to that height and the resultant carry distance. If they want or need to know the real number (2.9k vs. 2.4k ball spin off a driver), well then that's when they go to a fitter who will have a GC Quad or Trackman.

I agree with Adam and Harry that the launch monitor in player bags at your local course will be trending in the future. But I'm proposing a solution to get the Enterprise companies involved without cannibalizing their exceptional products.

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AppGator

Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff)

Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular)

Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular)

Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW     35.50" 45 degrees

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees

Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade

Right-handed

Raleigh, NC

15 hcp

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The average golfer is still hitting s***** range balls, so the quality of launch monitor really doesn’t matter 
Can you imagine your average golfer using a personal launch monitor to fit themselves into the right ball using a net? They could then use that ball to get their numbers right from the comfort of their own home.

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AppGator

Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff)

Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular)

Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular)

Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW     35.50" 45 degrees

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees

Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade

Right-handed

Raleigh, NC

15 hcp

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27 minutes ago, AppGator said:

Can you imagine your average golfer using a personal launch monitor to fit themselves into the right ball using a net? They could then use that ball to get their numbers right from the comfort of their own home.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

I think the key word in all of this is "average."  The average golfer will never buy a launch monitor.  They want to buy some golf equipment to impress their buddies,  play some golf, and drink a few beers.   The diehard golf junkie is the person that will buy a monitor to work on their game. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :taylormade-small:TM-180

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330

 

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29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think the key word in all of this is "average."  The average golfer will never buy a launch monitor.  They want to buy some golf equipment to impress their buddies,  play some golf, and drink a few beers.   The diehard golf junkie is the person that will buy a monitor to work on their game. 

Exactly. Everyone forgets the average golfer doesn’t really practice, they buy off the rack and rarely get fit. I play with lots of average golfers in my normal group and play a lot as a single and come across many avg golfers. Most have no idea what their shafts are or If they have a low/low, high/high or anything in between

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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11 hours ago, cnosil said:

When I listened to the discussion on the podcast I thought of it this way:  back when I started getting PC's,  they cost about $2000.   As time passed and new models came out the new models cost about $2000 and the older lower powered were less.  Fast forward to today,  a decent powered PC is about $2000.   Yes,  I can get one for $500 but it is lowered powered and generally limited to things like surfing the net and word processes.   With the $2000 model I can do most everything I would ever want.   However if I am a serious gamer,  I probably want to upgrade and get more power.....meaning more cost.    

The launch monitor market is basically the same:   Trackman/Foresight are $10K plus.  As they grew in capability,  we started got Skytrack for about $2K.   As time progressed those technologies still advanced and we now have basic $500 models.  As technology continues to advance,  the things that make the $10K models cost $10K will become cheaper and smaller and be replaced by better more expensive things.   So the $10K models will continue to get better,  the cheaper components will filter down to the $2K model and they $2K tech will move to the $500 models.    I believe that in 5 years we will have the capability/quality  of Skytrak in sub $500 models.  

@cnosil - You and I will always buy that higher-end PC and find new things to do with it.  But my parents, who've been running a home-based travel agency for the last 20 years or so and really only need web access and word processing have been continually buying cheaper and cheaper PCs.  They needed to buy the $2000 PC when they started their business, because that's all there was.  Now they have a choice, and they can buy something that does everything they need, and they can pay less for it.

There's always going to be a high-end market, because some people will always find ways to take advantage of the new functionality.  But as the low-end gets better, more and more consumers will trade down and get everything they need without paying for what they don't.  As long as the low end of that market is big enough, someone's going to try to serve it.  And this market isn't just golf.  It's baseball, softball, and soccer as well.  

You're absolutely right about us having Skytrak-quality LMs (or better) for under $500 in five years or less.  And that's going to be good enough for lots of people.  Our First Tee locations have three Trackman systems.  We don't need anything that good (I'm pretty sure we got some kind of ridiculous deal).  Skytrak would be fine.  A sub $500 device would be even better.

 

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What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
4 Wood (17*) - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
7 Wood  - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha Warbird S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
5i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
GW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :taylormade-small: TP5X Pix
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
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3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
4i - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )

 

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On 7/18/2020 at 3:45 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Exactly. Everyone forgets the average golfer doesn’t really practice, they buy off the rack and rarely get fit. I play with lots of average golfers in my normal group and play a lot as a single and come across many avg golfers. Most have no idea what their shafts are or If they have a low/low, high/high or anything in between

Yes sir.  Average golfers....my golf league

Guys in my golf league have no idea what the difference is between a stock shaft and an aftermarket shaft, one guy accused me of having an illegal driver because I had a Paderson shaft paired in a TM M2.   

All of their equipment comes right from DSG or Golf Galaxy. They pick a club up out of the rack, waggled it, then walk right up to the cashier.   

One day I informally surveyed 6-8 of them and not one of them knew what "bounce' was.  The other 12 wouldn't have known it either.  

None of them realize that there is no industry standard for shaft flex.  Forget about CPMs., bend points, stiff tips, soft-steppiing, etc.   

None of them know what size grip they need, or how to determine what size they need.  Nor do they know what can result from playing with a grip that is too small or too large. Most of them have grips from the Bush administration.  (Both Bushes)  

They have no idea why a 6 iron goes farther than a 7 iron,  or why a modern day 7 iron is what a 6 iron used to be.   Golf ball compression, different covers, why is bad if the core of a golf ball isn't centered?  (Just had this conversation last week, tried using the example of what putting with a egg would be like, didn't work out very well.)

No lessons, no Youtube videos, not even Paige Spiranac, no reading, for sure no MGS.

All of these guys have been playing golf at least 40 years some longer.  They go on buddy trips 3-4 times a year.   A couple of them play pretty well,  but most of them play the same way or worse, year after year after year.   Sometimes It is just stunning. 

Launch angle?  SIde spin?  D-plane? (wouldn't even try),  clubhead speed, (this is a popular one)   Ball speed? who cares about that? (another conversation I had actually),  One guy, a college educated professional, hits the driver with about 80 degrees of launch, about 6000 RPMs,  a "high fade", and he has been hitting this same shot since 1992.    Doesn't take lessons, change equipment, ask for advice, read a book, watch a Paige video, nothing.  For 28 years.

Then again, my yard does look like crap.  I have no time for that, I have to work on my short game.

Edited by SlowNLow
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I personally have no need for a personal launch monitor that doesn’t give me Club angles and spin characteristics.

I know how far I hit my shots (most of the time anyway), I don’t know what anybody needs to know ball speed unless they are going to try and catch it...lol

Give me face angle, shot shape and spin rates and I’m a happy camper


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Does the "average" golfer really NEED a launch monitor? Or just wants one?

 DRIVER: default_cobra-small.jpg.125f3712aad21ad9f7ca2c672e34a299.jpg  Cobra F-8 set at 10.5,  Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 60 (R) 44 1/2 "

3 & 5 WOOD: default_callaway-small.jpg.a58e7c6760b71a9eb95d385ecc5d2200.jpg Callaway XR-16, Fujikura Speeder Evolution 565 Red (R) 

IRONS 5-SW: default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-700, 2 upright, std loft  Alta CB (R) + 1/2"

HYBRID 3-4:  default_ping-small.jpg.b7606a25498d65282474c96f18d2debd.jpg PING G-410, 1 upright,  Alta CB 70 Red (R) + 1/2"

PUTTER: Byron Experimental GSS

 

 

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Does the "average" golfer really NEED a launch monitor? Or just wants one?
I think golf could use a product that makes the practice more interactive and fun. I mean who wouldn't want to see a tracer of their range shots? But there is an opportunity for adding a training piece (maybe YouTube videos) that explains how decent angle helps you hold more greens or how an optimal peak height on a drive can lead to more distance (or how low to keep a tee shot in the wind).

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AppGator

Driver: Callaway FT-9 Aldila NV 65 (9 degrees, Stiff)

Woods: Titleist 910Fd Fairway (17.5 degrees, Regular)

Hybrids: Ping G Hybrid Alta Shaft (22 degrees, Regular)

Irons: Ping I E1 Regular AWT 2.0 Black Dot, 5 Iron 38.00" 26 degrees, 6 Iron 37.50" 29 degrees, 7 Iron 37.00" 32 degrees, 8 Iron 36.50" 36 degrees, 9 Iron 36.00" 41 degrees, PW     35.50" 45 degrees

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degrees, F, Titleist Vokey SM7 54 degrees, S, Titleist Vokey SM7 58 degrees, D, Cleveland RTX 2.0 54.12 degrees, Cobra Tour Trusty 58.10 degrees

Putter: Odyssey 2-Ball Blade

Right-handed

Raleigh, NC

15 hcp

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9 hours ago, MadMex said:

 

Does the "average" golfer really NEED a launch monitor? Or just wants one?

Need vs want...  that’s true of everything in life... need a 60 inch flat screen?  Need leather/heated seats in your car?  The list goes on. 
 

The reason I “want” a launch monitor is because I “want” to hit into a net in my backyard, but the impact into the net eight feet out doesn’t really tell me anything - so if I’m going to make sure I don’t ingrain some nasty habits I’m going to “need” a launch monitor...

😉

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Driver: Callaway Mavrik SubZero 9* Neutral w stock Evenflow Riptide R flex shaft
3W  Titelist TS2 15* Draw w Tensei Blue R flex
3H, 4H Cobra One Length F9 Speedback hybrids (1”short) w Fujikura Atmos R flex shaft
5I-GW Cobra Forged TEC Black One Length (1”short, 2* flat) KBS 90 R flex shafts
56, 60 Cobra King MIM One Length Black (1” short) KBS HiRev2.0 125 S flex shafts
ER7  or Scotty Futura X - 35”

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2 hours ago, AppGator said:

I think golf could use a product that makes the practice more interactive and fun. I mean who wouldn't want to see a tracer of their range shots? But there is an opportunity for adding a training piece (maybe YouTube videos) that explains how decent angle helps you hold more greens or how an optimal peak height on a drive can lead to more distance (or how low to keep a tee shot in the wind).

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

The average golfer doesn’t practice and they sure aren’t worried about any type of launch characteristics. The range I practice at is filled with average golfers. Many hit most of the bucket with their driver trying to hit it as far as they can. I’ve seen many have their hole bag with them and hit a few wedges the. Hit 90 balls almost one right after another with driver and leave. 
 

TXG, crossfields, Shiels to an extent and a few others talk about the launch characteristics and affects on ball flight, distance, etc, another channel talking about that is not doing anything new. The golfers who would be watching that video and would possible consider buying a launch monitor are on this forum and others as well as Facebook groups that are similar to forums. That’s the target audience and as you can see in this thread the number of those interested is going to be very small. 
 

edit: I’m as much into launch numbers and seeing them as most but once I have my setup unless im doing mgs testing it want to compare head vs head or shaft vs shaft I don’t care about launch numbers. I also prefer to determine my distance gaps they playing on the course with balls I use in conditions I play in rather than on the range where there’s no danger of penalty strokes. My ranhe time is to work on my swing and keep it intact.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I am one of your average hack golfers that would be interested in a $500 launch monitor.

The closest range to me is 20+ min, and charges $12 for a small bucket of balls. I have two kids that want to hit balls too, so I am $36 into a single range session. Their grass is horrible, and turf isn't realistic to our courses around here. I have a mid 20s handicap, and want to get better, so what are my options? 

I own multiple mats (tight fairway, first cut, and rough) thanks to a neighbor that works for Synlawn, and I own a net that's large enough to catch my worst shanks.

With a monitor that tells more than distance, I could determine my misses, etc. Until then, I am stuck assuming a flushed iron shot went straight, and all others were just "off"

 

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