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2020 Official Member Review: Sub 70 699 Pro irons


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Sub 70 believes that it can offer high-quality golf clubs that are directly comparable to the major OEMs, while saving consumers money by selling direct. There's no doubt that the cost savings are there: on a stock setup of 5-PW, the 699 Pro irons are about half the price of TaylorMade's P790 irons, which are likely the best known product in the hollow/filled iron category.

But do they perform? Three forum members will be putting that claim to the test, and you can follow their updates here in this thread. Their overall summaries will be posted here:

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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6 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Let me kick things off here. First, I'm really excited about this test for reasons over and above the cool feeling of getting new clubs. Jason Hiland, the founder of @GolfSub70, has been part of my golfing life nearly since I really got sucked into the game 8 or so years ago.

I've always been in the "not rich guy playing a rich guys' sport" end of things, and so I was delighted to find one of Jason's earlier companies, Diamond Tour Golf. They make a variety of clone clubs, and I've built multiple sets from them for a fraction of the cost of the big OEMs. Diamond Tour not only sucked me deeper into playing golf, but into the joys of tinkering and club work. And they still provide what might be the best bargain in junior golf: I basically build Kirke a custom set of their junior clubs each year.

So for me, testing Sub 70 is like coming back to an old friend, even though Sub 70 is a relatively new company. For me, they start with a leg up: I know firsthand that Jason is capable of putting out quality components that don't have the same costs as the big OEMs.

_______________________

Some about me stuff: I've written a lot of this in other threads here, so I'll keep this short. I'm a perfectly mediocre golfer. Driver swing speed in the mid-to-upper 90s. Handicap (as of this morning) around 11. I make lots of bogeys, a few pars, and that summarizes most of my rounds.

As of now, my short game and putting have continued to get better and better; that is now the strength of my game. The biggest weakness is driving. In between is my approach play. I tend to hit my irons well, but on my home course, that's not enough: the greens are exceedingly tiny, and so increasing my GIRs has been a struggle for me.

_______________________

Why I'm interested in this test: my PING G700s and I have had a nice run. But a few months ago, I listened to a podcast with one of PING's engineers, and he was talking about the effects of blade length on player consistency. Check out an excerpt from that here:

Fascinating, no?

Considering that those are my irons he's holding as examples of the biggest irons, I really wanted to see if I might see some improvements in my game going back to a smaller iron.

But...who wants to give up the distance gains of an iron like the G700s? Enter the players-distance category iron! In this category, we have irons like some of the PXG flagships, the PING i500s, and the TaylorMade P790. Generally compact heads, most often hollow and then filled with some substance to make them sound less offensive. These seemed right in the sweet spot of what I would desire most. Except the price: yikes! Not even counting PXG doing PXG things, the price of this kind of manufacturing is almost certainly higher than a standard iron.

So the idea of Sub 70, a company that I already have a soft spot for, putting out an iron in the class of irons that I'm interested in: yep, count me in.

So what do I want to see with this test?

  • How much distance drop-off is there going from an SGI iron like the G700 to the 699 Pro?
  • Is there a compensating increase in control, both laterally and in consistent distance?
  • I'm at the higher end of the recommended handicap for these irons: are they too much for me?
  • And bottom line: are these going to help me with my long-running quest to break into a single-figure handicap?

Going to be keeping a close eye on this test as the Player's Distance Category has grown over the last 3-4 years.

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Let me kick things off here. First, I'm really excited about this test for reasons over and above the cool feeling of getting new clubs. Jason Hiland, the founder of @GolfSub70, has been part of my golfing life nearly since I really got sucked into the game 8 or so years ago.

I've always been in the "not rich guy playing a rich guys' sport" end of things, and so I was delighted to find one of Jason's earlier companies, Diamond Tour Golf. They make a variety of clone clubs, and I've built multiple sets from them for a fraction of the cost of the big OEMs. Diamond Tour not only sucked me deeper into playing golf, but into the joys of tinkering and club work. And they still provide what might be the best bargain in junior golf: I basically build Kirke a custom set of their junior clubs each year.

So for me, testing Sub 70 is like coming back to an old friend, even though Sub 70 is a relatively new company. For me, they start with a leg up: I know firsthand that Jason is capable of putting out quality components that don't have the same costs as the big OEMs.

_______________________

Some about me stuff: I've written a lot of this in other threads here, so I'll keep this short. I'm a perfectly mediocre golfer. Driver swing speed in the mid-to-upper 90s. Handicap (as of this morning) around 11. I make lots of bogeys, a few pars, and that summarizes most of my rounds.

As of now, my short game and putting have continued to get better and better; that is now the strength of my game. The biggest weakness is driving. In between is my approach play. I tend to hit my irons well, but on my home course, that's not enough: the greens are exceedingly tiny, and so increasing my GIRs has been a struggle for me.

_______________________

Why I'm interested in this test: my PING G700s and I have had a nice run. But a few months ago, I listened to a podcast with one of PING's engineers, and he was talking about the effects of blade length on player consistency. Check out an excerpt from that here:

Fascinating, no?

Considering that those are my irons he's holding as examples of the biggest irons, I really wanted to see if I might see some improvements in my game going back to a smaller iron.

But...who wants to give up the distance gains of an iron like the G700s? Enter the players-distance category iron! In this category, we have irons like some of the PXG flagships, the PING i500s, and the TaylorMade P790. Generally compact heads, most often hollow and then filled with some substance to make them sound less offensive. These seemed right in the sweet spot of what I would desire most. Except the price: yikes! Not even counting PXG doing PXG things, the price of this kind of manufacturing is almost certainly higher than a standard iron.

So the idea of Sub 70, a company that I already have a soft spot for, putting out an iron in the class of irons that I'm interested in: yep, count me in.

So what do I want to see with this test?

  • How much distance drop-off is there going from an SGI iron like the G700 to the 699 Pro?
  • Is there a compensating increase in control, both laterally and in consistent distance?
  • I'm at the higher end of the recommended handicap for these irons: are they too much for me?
  • And bottom line: are these going to help me with my long-running quest to break into a single-figure handicap?

I've had my Sub 70 639CB's alittle over a month and I'm thrilled w/ the quality, plus the customer service is top notch from Jason and the team.  The Players distance irons aren't for everyone, but they are an important niche in helping a large group play better and enjoy golf more. From others I know that have these irons, I think you're in for a treat!

:honma: 💣Driver: Honma TR20 440 8.5° w/ Vizard FP-7X SHAFT - REVIEW POSTED 💣

:adams-small:3 Wood:  Adams TightLies Titanium 3+  - Shaft Bassara E55 x5ct

:taylormade-small:Hybrid: Taylormade RBZ 2.  16.5°-  Stock Shaft- Stiff

image.png.5094bf65d200d3ff7ef5ed059993dfb4.png Irons: SUB70 639 CB 4-PW w/ Nippon Modus 120 X-STIFF

:mizuno-small::cleveland-small:Wedges: GW: SUB70 Raw 48° Mizuno Mp series 52 SW: Cleveland RTX 2.0  56° LW: Mizuno JPX 900 60°

:odyssey-small:Putter: Odyssey White Ice Sabertooth- Superstroke Slim 3.0 grip

:taylormade-small:Bag: Taylormade FlexTech Lifestyle Carry bag- Houndstooth

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Let me kick things off here. First, I'm really excited about this test for reasons over and above the cool feeling of getting new clubs. Jason Hiland, the founder of [mention=76062]GolfSub70[/mention], has been part of my golfing life nearly since I really got sucked into the game 8 or so years ago.
I've always been in the "not rich guy playing a rich guys' sport" end of things, and so I was delighted to find one of Jason's earlier companies, Diamond Tour Golf. They make a variety of clone clubs, and I've built multiple sets from them for a fraction of the cost of the big OEMs. Diamond Tour not only sucked me deeper into playing golf, but into the joys of tinkering and club work. And they still provide what might be the best bargain in junior golf: I basically build Kirke a custom set of their junior clubs each year.
So for me, testing Sub 70 is like coming back to an old friend, even though Sub 70 is a relatively new company. For me, they start with a leg up: I know firsthand that Jason is capable of putting out quality components that don't have the same costs as the big OEMs.
_______________________
Some about me stuff: I've written a lot of this in other threads here, so I'll keep this short. I'm a perfectly mediocre golfer. Driver swing speed in the mid-to-upper 90s. Handicap (as of this morning) around 11. I make lots of bogeys, a few pars, and that summarizes most of my rounds.
As of now, my short game and putting have continued to get better and better; that is now the strength of my game. The biggest weakness is driving. In between is my approach play. I tend to hit my irons well, but on my home course, that's not enough: the greens are exceedingly tiny, and so increasing my GIRs has been a struggle for me.
_______________________
Why I'm interested in this test: my PING G700s and I have had a nice run. But a few months ago, I listened to a podcast with one of PING's engineers, and he was talking about the effects of blade length on player consistency. Check out an excerpt from that here:
[/url] Fascinating, no?
Considering that those are my irons he's holding as examples of the biggest irons, I really wanted to see if I might see some improvements in my game going back to a smaller iron.
But...who wants to give up the distance gains of an iron like the G700s? Enter the players-distance category iron! In this category, we have irons like some of the PXG flagships, the PING i500s, and the TaylorMade P790. Generally compact heads, most often hollow and then filled with some substance to make them sound less offensive. These seemed right in the sweet spot of what I would desire most. Except the price: yikes! Not even counting PXG doing PXG things, the price of this kind of manufacturing is almost certainly higher than a standard iron.
So the idea of Sub 70, a company that I already have a soft spot for, putting out an iron in the class of irons that I'm interested in: yep, count me in.
So what do I want to see with this test?
  • How much distance drop-off is there going from an SGI iron like the G700 to the 699 Pro?
  • Is there a compensating increase in control, both laterally and in consistent distance?
  • I'm at the higher end of the recommended handicap for these irons: are they too much for me?
  • And bottom line: are these going to help me with my long-running quest to break into a single-figure handicap?


Great start! You actually hit on several things that I am interested in.

The blade length has been something I have read about and thought about. Several years ago I played a set of Bridgestone J40 DPC’s, a much small blade than my current Cobra F7’s.

When I was striking the ball well there was no better feeling and the results were amazing! But, mishits were punishing.

So I’ll be interested to see how you and the others do with the smaller profile iron.

How much distance do you give up, if any?
How is the dispersion?
How much do you lose on mishits?
Is there a big difference between a toe miss and a heel miss?
What about thin shots?

SGI irons cover up a lot of misses....how does the 699 Pros handle those.

These are on my short list for new irons so I’ll be following along closely.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

 

:callaway-small: XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

:odyssey-small: Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip

:Snell: MTB

 

 



Twitter: @timldotson
Instagram: timldotson
Facebook: TimDotson

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Congrats to all the testers and excellent starting posts!! Looking forward to following you all on your journey.

 

In my :titleist-small: cart Bag:

Driver:    :cobra-small: King F9 9° - LH - Atmos Blue TS 6 Stiff
Woods:   :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue 7 Reg
               :srixon-small: Z U85 2 Iron
Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron AMT White S300
  :titelist-small: T100S - LH - 3-48* - AMT White S300
Wedges:               Indi FLX- LH - 52° 56° 60° - True Temper Spinner Wedge shafts
Putter:    :rife-putters-1: 2 Bar Hybrid
Ball:        :titelist-small: Pro V1x

Testing: Haywood CB/MB Combo Iron Set, 4-7 Cavity backs, 8-PW Muscle Backs, True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 Stiff, 2 Degrees stronger lofts.

Tracked By: :Arccos:

Follow me on Twitter @ham12_hampton and on Instagram @Nunfa0 

 

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Great starts from all of you!

I see both of you ended up with KBS shafts and that’s their standard offering, where you allowed to chose any shaft in the catalog or did they try to keep you in the KBS?

I will be really interested to see how Tom fares with players iron.

I was very interested in this testing but I think the Pros might be a little too much Club for me right now. But I’m definitely interested in some of their other offerings so I will be following this closely.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

 

:callaway-small: XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft

:cobra-small: King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft

PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts

:cleveland-small: RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts

:odyssey-small: Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip

:Snell: MTB

 

 



Twitter: @timldotson
Instagram: timldotson
Facebook: TimDotson

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How good do they look!!

 

In my :titleist-small: cart Bag:

Driver:    :cobra-small: King F9 9° - LH - Atmos Blue TS 6 Stiff
Woods:   :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue 7 Reg
               :srixon-small: Z U85 2 Iron
Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron AMT White S300
  :titelist-small: T100S - LH - 3-48* - AMT White S300
Wedges:               Indi FLX- LH - 52° 56° 60° - True Temper Spinner Wedge shafts
Putter:    :rife-putters-1: 2 Bar Hybrid
Ball:        :titelist-small: Pro V1x

Testing: Haywood CB/MB Combo Iron Set, 4-7 Cavity backs, 8-PW Muscle Backs, True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 Stiff, 2 Degrees stronger lofts.

Tracked By: :Arccos:

Follow me on Twitter @ham12_hampton and on Instagram @Nunfa0 

 

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Congrats testers, and I’m excited to see some low indexers in the mix. I’m a little familiar with the Sub70’s and Jason, and these clubs hold the most interest for me, so pretty excited to hear all about them. 
good luck and “let’s get it on”!!

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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Congrats to all testers, looking forward to all your reviews! I have had my Sub70 699 irons now for about 2 months and I love them. I  went with 699 vs 699 pro after I demoed them, just for the minor increase in forgiveness in the 699 and the fact that I rarely try to work the ball. I went with the KBS tour 90 stiff shaft and my ball flight and trajectory is more penetrating with improved height. Jason and his team are phenomenal and I called him about 4-5 times to make sure everything was correct before I ordered. Welcome to the #SubClub! Excited to see how they perform for you.

In my bag:

Driver:  :Hogan: Ben Hogan GS53 10.5* Stiff Mitsubishi tensei blue Stiff

3 Wood: :Sub70: 939 x 15 deg. UST Proforce Black V2 7F4 stiff

Hybrid:  :Sub70: 939x Hybrid UST 680 recoil shaft stiff

Irons: :Sub70: 699 irons 4-PW  KBS tour 90 v Stiff 

50 Deg:Sub70: TAIII Satin

54 deg: :Sub70: TAIII Satin

58 Deg: :Sub70: TAIII Satin

Putter:Sub70: 004 Single Bend Masters Edition

Rangefinder: :CaddyTek: Caddytek V2

 

Check out my MyGolfSpy 2020 Forum Official Tester: Ben Hogan GS53 Driver

 

 

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What am I looking for from the Sub 70 699 Pro irons? Part 1: Shot tracking

I'm going to set up my testing procedures for the Sub 70 irons in two categories: on-course performance and launch monitor numbers. Here, I want to set up a baseline for the performance of my current irons, the PING G700s.

This year, I switched from Game Golf to Arccos for my stat collection. The two systems send mixed messages about the quality of my approach game (though both give me roughly the same overall handicap). Game Golf tells me my approach play is roughly at the level of a high single-digit player; Arccos says it's more at the level of a 15 handicap. That's a pretty broad disparity, obviously—especially relatively: Game Golf says my approach play is a strength relative to my overall handicap, whereas Arccos tells me that it's holding my handicap back.

I suspect the difference is that Arccos gives greater weight to hitting greens, whereas Game Golf is more concerned with proximity to the hole. I've written about this elsewhere on this site: the greens at my home course are very, very small (on average, about 2,400 sq ft). Practically, then, while GG might be more encouraging, Arccos is going to end up better reflecting the actual scoring potential that I have on my course. I might have hit an OK shot that finished 35 feet from the pin (from 100-125 yards, J. B. Holmes is last on the Tour with an average proximity of almost 30'), but because the greens are 50x50, I'm still chipping. My average greens in regulation hovers around 25%; it's really hard to score well with that percentage.

Here's my Arccos GIR and proximity numbers for my last 10 rounds:

image.png

And here are the current Arccos distance ranges that I hit each club:

image.png

For this test, I'm obviously looking for any distance increase from the 699 Pros over the G700s. The 699s are slightly weaker in lofts (about 1° on each club). I am hoping for tighter dispersion numbers and (correspondingly) higher GIR numbers.

In my next post, I'll lay down some baseline SkyTrak numbers with my current irons and suggest some targets that I'm hoping to see the 699s hit.

 

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

What am I looking for from the Sub 70 699 Pro irons? Part 1: Shot tracking

I'm going to set up my testing procedures for the Sub 70 irons in two categories: on-course performance and launch monitor numbers. Here, I want to set up a baseline for the performance of my current irons, the PING G700s.

This year, I switched from Game Golf to Arccos for my stat collection. The two systems send mixed messages about the quality of my approach game (though both give me roughly the same overall handicap). Game Golf tells me my approach play is roughly at the level of a high single-digit player; Arccos says it's more at the level of a 15 handicap. That's a pretty broad disparity, obviously—especially relatively: Game Golf says my approach play is a strength relative to my overall handicap, whereas Arccos tells me that it's holding my handicap back.

I suspect the difference is that Arccos gives greater weight to hitting greens, whereas Game Golf is more concerned with proximity to the hole. I've written about this elsewhere on this site: the greens at my home course are very, very small (on average, about 2,400 sq ft). Practically, then, while GG might be more encouraging, Arccos is going to end up better reflecting the actual scoring potential that I have on my course. I might have hit an OK shot that finished 35 feet from the pin (from 100-125 yards, J. B. Holmes is last on the Tour with an average proximity of almost 30'), but because the greens are 50x50, I'm still chipping. My average greens in regulation hovers around 25%; it's really hard to score well with that percentage.

Here's my Arccos GIR and proximity numbers for my last 10 rounds:

image.png

And here are the current Arccos distance ranges that I hit each club:

image.png

For this test, I'm obviously looking for any distance increase from the 699 Pros over the G700s. The 699s are slightly weaker in lofts (about 1° on each club). I am hoping for tighter dispersion numbers and (correspondingly) higher GIR numbers.

In my next post, I'll lay down some baseline SkyTrak numbers with my current irons and suggest some targets that I'm hoping to see the 699s hit.

 

Good data here. Arccos is very eye opening I think.

Check out my reviews:

:ping-small:  G710 Irons Official Review I :Fuji: MC Shaft & :EVNROLL: V Series Putter Official Review

:cobra-small: 2022 Forged Tec's Official Review I Logo.png.7f297574516267afc6959b36be364cf9.pngNitron Push Cart Official Review

WITB:

Weapons of grass destruction (link to WITB)

:ping-small: Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by :Arccos:

:cobra-small: RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X :taylormade-small: SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green

:titleist-small: U505 Driving Iron 17* - Project X HZRDUS Black :cobra-small: SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black

:cobra-small: 2022 King Forged Tec's 4-PW - KBS $ Tape 130 :titelist-small: 48 (SM8), 52 & 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S 

:EVNROLL: ER2VI :titelist-small: PROV1X #19 

Are you a veteran? Check out the Veterans Golf Association (VGA) Thread!

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

What am I looking for from the Sub 70 699 Pro irons? Part 1: Shot tracking

I'm going to set up my testing procedures for the Sub 70 irons in two categories: on-course performance and launch monitor numbers. Here, I want to set up a baseline for the performance of my current irons, the PING G700s.

This year, I switched from Game Golf to Arccos for my stat collection. The two systems send mixed messages about the quality of my approach game (though both give me roughly the same overall handicap). Game Golf tells me my approach play is roughly at the level of a high single-digit player; Arccos says it's more at the level of a 15 handicap. That's a pretty broad disparity, obviously—especially relatively: Game Golf says my approach play is a strength relative to my overall handicap, whereas Arccos tells me that it's holding my handicap back.

I suspect the difference is that Arccos gives greater weight to hitting greens, whereas Game Golf is more concerned with proximity to the hole. I've written about this elsewhere on this site: the greens at my home course are very, very small (on average, about 2,400 sq ft). Practically, then, while GG might be more encouraging, Arccos is going to end up better reflecting the actual scoring potential that I have on my course. I might have hit an OK shot that finished 35 feet from the pin (from 100-125 yards, J. B. Holmes is last on the Tour with an average proximity of almost 30'), but because the greens are 50x50, I'm still chipping. My average greens in regulation hovers around 25%; it's really hard to score well with that percentage.

Here's my Arccos GIR and proximity numbers for my last 10 rounds:

image.png

And here are the current Arccos distance ranges that I hit each club:

image.png

For this test, I'm obviously looking for any distance increase from the 699 Pros over the G700s. The 699s are slightly weaker in lofts (about 1° on each club). I am hoping for tighter dispersion numbers and (correspondingly) higher GIR numbers.

In my next post, I'll lay down some baseline SkyTrak numbers with my current irons and suggest some targets that I'm hoping to see the 699s hit.

 

I don't want to get off topic but I have a question regarding the data collection.

I have not used either system but I am wondering about the distance variation. Yes we can all hit a few poor shots, but I am questioning the logic in the programs. I play on a hilly course or should I say a very hilly course. As an example, if I have 125 yards into a green I would hit a pitching wedge. In this example I have a severe upslope and I am on the slope hitting into the green. In order to get the ball 125 yards I now need to hit a 9 iron which is 140 yards for me. Wouldn't the distance tracking always be showing you short or long on uphill and down hill lies?  Like I said I have not used either system but do they compensate for elevations or always assume a level shot.

:titleist-small: Driver, TSi 1 S Flex

:cobra-small: 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex

:cobra-small: 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex

:cobra-small: Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap)

:cobra-small: Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60*

:cobra-small: Agera 35"

image.png Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag

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Arccos incorporates elevation and weather data if you're using the Caddie system. That's the part active during the round, that suggests clubs, etc. (It isn't something I've used.)

As for the data itself, both GG and Arccos have algorithms designed to remove outlier shots. So for me, I often (too often) use my 5 iron to punch out from under trees. If everything is working properly, Arccos recognizes that an 80-yard 5 iron isn't a proper shot, and that isn't included in its summary of how I hit my 5 iron.

What I don't know (though I'm skeptical) is whether Arccos adjusts actual shots based on elevation in its stats. So for instance, when you hit your 9-iron 125 because of the elevation, Arccos likely still believes that that was a 125-yard 9 iron; it's not normalizing it out to 140.

My hunch on the data is that, with a large enough sample size, the numbers work themselves out. You have enough level, uphill, and downhill 9-irons that the overall numbers are accurate enough.

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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Ok, thanks for the information. 

:titleist-small: Driver, TSi 1 S Flex

:cobra-small: 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex

:cobra-small: 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex

:cobra-small: Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap)

:cobra-small: Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60*

:cobra-small: Agera 35"

image.png Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 4:24 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Well, I still can't wipe the smile off my face from being selected as a tester. What an awesome opportunity. I live up to my user name but luckily for me my wife doesn't mind. I think there is more pressure doing this testing than going in the store and buying off the rack. I have always been a standard fit so it was no big deal. (or so I thought ) more to follow shortly.

Some insight  I started playing golf when I was 30. Got hooked!  took a group lesson early on, watched video's, built greens, pieced together a simulator, hitting nets, swing jacket, Zepp swing sensor, orange whip and almost anything you can think of to improve my game.  So 30 years later I am at a 2.5 handicap mostly achieved on my own. Back about 13 years ago my wife landed a job at a Country Club as the book keeper which fortunately for me comes with membership. So I play a lot of golf. Six years ago I also moved into a Sales Manager position. Yes more golf with customers. Being a better player in the company I also get to play in many customer golf tournaments and charity golf events. (have one next Friday) Did I mention I play a lot of golf!

This testing will be very interesting to me. I always played game improvement irons. Why mess with a good thing right?

Will going to a players iron negatively effect my handicap?

Was I always hitting the sweet spot or did the game improvement features hide my imperfections?

Will the ball move more than I'm used to due to hitting an iron that can work the ball? Something I'm not used to.

Wondering about the feedback feel compared to the game improvement covering this up for the most part.

Will I kick myself in the butt for not going to a players iron sooner?

So here we are on Day 1  Just got off the phone with Jason at Sub 70 for my phone fitting. Before the call I took the on line fitting quiz. It asks for your height, wrist to floor measurement with golf shoes on, average driver distance, and distance you hit a 7 iron. So it came back with + 1/4 in iron length, + 2* lie. So I thought I was prepared for the phone call. No wait, let me run down to the basement and check my swing on a lie board. I see that my typical impact was more toward the toe. Why I didn't do this years ago is unknown. So I get on the phone with Jason and I told him I went through the fitting quiz. Then he started asking me questions.  "Do you draw or fade the irons?" I hit the straight  Then we are not changing the lie angle. I told Jason my lie board results showed my impact to be more toward the toe. So he recommended we go with the + 1/4 " on length. Then he asked if I wanted satin or black? I asked if the black would hold up well. Then we got into soil conditions on the golf courses I play. He asked are they sandy type soil, regular dirt type, clay. He suggested I get the satin for the typical clay in my area. We decided on the type of shaft based on my request to gain more trajectory. I typically hit a lower ball. So I was fit to the KBS Tour 90 in regular flex. Then got into the golf grip. I'm a midsize. Finally the set makeup 4 to pitch or 5 to gap. I went with the 5 to gap as I switch over to a hybrid for the 4.

Jason was great and understanding on the fitting process and congratulated me on being chosen and was looking forward to my honest reviews. I should have these in about a week. I can't wait. 

Congratulations, Tom.  I see you all over the feeds on here with lots of input and great thoughts.  Excited to see what you think of them, enjoy the set!

Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X
3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree
5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree
Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW
Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: TaylorMade GTX black
Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7

2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester

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3 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I don't want to get off topic but I have a question regarding the data collection.

I have not used either system but I am wondering about the distance variation. Yes we can all hit a few poor shots, but I am questioning the logic in the programs. I play on a hilly course or should I say a very hilly course. As an example, if I have 125 yards into a green I would hit a pitching wedge. In this example I have a severe upslope and I am on the slope hitting into the green. In order to get the ball 125 yards I now need to hit a 9 iron which is 140 yards for me. Wouldn't the distance tracking always be showing you short or long on uphill and down hill lies?  Like I said I have not used either system but do they compensate for elevations or always assume a level shot.

@Tom the Golf Nut Not sure if shotscope takes into account elevation or wind but as @GolfSpy MPR mentioned, SS also removed outliers from data collection. There is an average shot distance for each club which takes into account every shot and then P. Avg which stands for performance average which takes the outliers out.

Driver : :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff

Woods : :benhogan-small: GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular

Hybrids: sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black 

Irons : sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts 

Wedges : File:Kirkland Signature logo.svg - Wikimedia Commons 52, 56, 60 

Putter : :taylormade-small:Spider Red

Bag : datrek-brand_1456761019__86876.original.jpg.7c24f9ae71c7730ce29a828226731487.jpg lightweight cart bag | motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgDry Series Bag

Ball :  :taylormade-small: TP5 PIX (2019) | Screen-Shot-2017-07-20-at-7_24.05-AM-300x118.png.9f1c4cb1d62511ee40a05bd6d5795f97.png ProV1x (2021)

Rangefinder : 836d5c8b9e44880db86abcd3b735255d.w2480_h836.jpg.bcd4050c642957abbdca7453a6cb0469.jpg ULT-X

Pushcart : motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgM5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart

SoCal, USA

Right handed HDCP 16.4

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Will definitely be keeping up on this test as I have looked into getting a 3W from Sub70 and am interested in the comparison between big brand OEM clubs and the Sub70 clubs.

Driver : :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff

Woods : :benhogan-small: GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular

Hybrids: sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black 

Irons : sub70logo.png.3c207e4e90c1eeca7b9a917b5fa4b848.png 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts 

Wedges : File:Kirkland Signature logo.svg - Wikimedia Commons 52, 56, 60 

Putter : :taylormade-small:Spider Red

Bag : datrek-brand_1456761019__86876.original.jpg.7c24f9ae71c7730ce29a828226731487.jpg lightweight cart bag | motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgDry Series Bag

Ball :  :taylormade-small: TP5 PIX (2019) | Screen-Shot-2017-07-20-at-7_24.05-AM-300x118.png.9f1c4cb1d62511ee40a05bd6d5795f97.png ProV1x (2021)

Rangefinder : 836d5c8b9e44880db86abcd3b735255d.w2480_h836.jpg.bcd4050c642957abbdca7453a6cb0469.jpg ULT-X

Pushcart : motocaddy.jpg.258c0b46e60c2804fc6b1f64bca0aef3.jpgM5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart

SoCal, USA

Right handed HDCP 16.4

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5 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

What am I looking for from the Sub 70 699 Pro irons? Part 1: Shot tracking

I'm going to set up my testing procedures for the Sub 70 irons in two categories: on-course performance and launch monitor numbers. Here, I want to set up a baseline for the performance of my current irons, the PING G700s.

This year, I switched from Game Golf to Arccos for my stat collection. The two systems send mixed messages about the quality of my approach game (though both give me roughly the same overall handicap). Game Golf tells me my approach play is roughly at the level of a high single-digit player; Arccos says it's more at the level of a 15 handicap. That's a pretty broad disparity, obviously—especially relatively: Game Golf says my approach play is a strength relative to my overall handicap, whereas Arccos tells me that it's holding my handicap back.

I suspect the difference is that Arccos gives greater weight to hitting greens, whereas Game Golf is more concerned with proximity to the hole. I've written about this elsewhere on this site: the greens at my home course are very, very small (on average, about 2,400 sq ft). Practically, then, while GG might be more encouraging, Arccos is going to end up better reflecting the actual scoring potential that I have on my course. I might have hit an OK shot that finished 35 feet from the pin (from 100-125 yards, J. B. Holmes is last on the Tour with an average proximity of almost 30'), but because the greens are 50x50, I'm still chipping. My average greens in regulation hovers around 25%; it's really hard to score well with that percentage.

Here's my Arccos GIR and proximity numbers for my last 10 rounds:

image.png

And here are the current Arccos distance ranges that I hit each club:

image.png

For this test, I'm obviously looking for any distance increase from the 699 Pros over the G700s. The 699s are slightly weaker in lofts (about 1° on each club). I am hoping for tighter dispersion numbers and (correspondingly) higher GIR numbers.

In my next post, I'll lay down some baseline SkyTrak numbers with my current irons and suggest some targets that I'm hoping to see the 699s hit.

 

I dunno if its just me, but those seem like some pretty broad length ranges. ? Cant Arccos tighten those numbers up a bit? Its like 10+ yard overlaps, and over 25 yd variances with the same club? That would just confuse me... Or does it have a narrowed number (the number that a normal solid shot goes) somewhere in the mix?

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sluggo42 said:

I dunno if its just me, but those seem like some pretty broad length ranges. ? Cant Arccos tighten those numbers up a bit? Its like 10+ yard overlaps, and over 25 yd variances with the same club? That would just confuse me... Or does it have a narrowed number (the number that a normal solid shot goes) somewhere in the mix?

The overlaps will happen, bad lie, good lie etc. Mine are 7-8 yards. But you are correct in the total range. That is a big spread. Hopefully these bring that to a more manageable range fro him.  

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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16 hours ago, golfish! said:

@Tom the Golf Nut Not sure if shotscope takes into account elevation or wind but as @GolfSpy MPR mentioned, SS also removed outliers from data collection. There is an average shot distance for each club which takes into account every shot and then P. Avg which stands for performance average which takes the outliers out.

Also with shot scope you can go back after the round and mark the punch outs etc as such so they don't skew the data for the clubs.

 

In my :titleist-small: cart Bag:

Driver:    :cobra-small: King F9 9° - LH - Atmos Blue TS 6 Stiff
Woods:   :cobra-small: King F9 - LH - 3/4 Wood - Atmos Blue 7 Reg
               :srixon-small: Z U85 2 Iron
Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron AMT White S300
  :titelist-small: T100S - LH - 3-48* - AMT White S300
Wedges:               Indi FLX- LH - 52° 56° 60° - True Temper Spinner Wedge shafts
Putter:    :rife-putters-1: 2 Bar Hybrid
Ball:        :titelist-small: Pro V1x

Testing: Haywood CB/MB Combo Iron Set, 4-7 Cavity backs, 8-PW Muscle Backs, True Temper Dynamic Gold 105 Stiff, 2 Degrees stronger lofts.

Tracked By: :Arccos:

Follow me on Twitter @ham12_hampton and on Instagram @Nunfa0 

 

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Woke up one day closer to receiving the goods 🙂

  • PXG 0811X Gen 4 7.5* - Graphite Design Tour AD-HD 7 TX
  • TaylorMade M6 15* - PX HZRDUS Green 80 TX
  • Titleist 913 Fd 18* - MCA KuroKage XMS 90 X /// OR /// Callaway XForged UT 20* - Aldila Rogue Black 105 TX
  • Srixon Z745 4-P - PX LZ 7.0
  • Vokey SM7 49F / 53F / 58K - DG TI S400
  • Odyssey Black #3 34”
  • Titleist AVX
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3 hours ago, Smellis745 said:

Woke up one day closer to receiving the goods 🙂

Make sure to snap those pics once you do!

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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