2020 Official Member Review: Sub 70 699 Pro irons

[ncwoz]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I've noted elsewhere on the forum that my GIRs are suppressed a bit by the tiny greens on our course (they average just over 3,000 sq ft, so about 18x18 in yards). This reality also likely inflates my putting stats a bit, as it's very rare to be faced with a 50' putt on our course.

That kinda touches on something I've had kicking around in my head the last few months, what's the effect of playing one specific course on someones stats? Especially when that course might have certain traits that sway from the "average", ie. smaller greens, smaller fairways, short, severely undulating greens, etc. I've been manually keeping some stats lately and I'm not totally sure if the comparisons I've been using are totally fair relative to the courses I've been playing. I also wonder if Arccos, Shot Scope, or others take course layout like that into account? Anyway, I digress...

Either way, it's nice to see the distance dispersion tightening up! At least from the appearance of the graph there, it looks like there were a few "bigger" misses left with the G700's than the 699's, do you think there's anything to that you've picked up? Or maybe it's just me trying to find more in the graph than there actually is haha.

[GolfSpy MPR]

3 minutes ago, ncwoz said:

That kinda touches on something I've had kicking around in my head the last few months, what's the effect of playing one specific course on someones stats? Especially when that course might have certain traits that sway from the "average", ie. smaller greens, smaller fairways, short, severely undulating greens, etc. I've been manually keeping some stats lately and I'm not totally sure if the comparisons I've been using are totally fair relative to the courses I've been playing. I also wonder if Arccos, Shot Scope, or others take course layout like that into account? Anyway, I digress...

Either way, it's nice to see the distance dispersion tightening up! At least from the appearance of the graph there, it looks like there were a few "bigger" misses left with the G700's than the 699's, do you think there's anything to that you've picked up? Or maybe it's just me trying to find more in the graph than there actually is haha.

As someone who plays about 99% of my rounds on a single, quirky course, I'm convinced it matters a lot. So not only do we have tiny greens (that's going to skew my putting and approach numbers), but we have a bunch of dogleg holes, several of which are full 90° holes. Consider the 2nd hole, a short par 4:

At under 270 yards, this is a tiny hole. But it is heavily forested on every side; cutting the corner isn't a real option (it's sometimes done for fun in scrambles, but you're lofting an iron over tall trees completely blind). So you end up hitting a wedge into the corner (didn't quite catch my PW properly on this swing).

I have to assume that every single time I play this hole, Arccos marks me down has having lost strokes driving, because I'm (at best) looking for a 130 yard "drive" here.

[MaxEntropy]

48 minutes ago, ncwoz said:

Especially when that course might have certain traits

My iron distance data (particularly 6, 7, in both ShotScope and Arccos have been skewed by our league course. Depending on wind, tee, and pin, all 5 of the par 3's can play the same distance, even though they are different on the card. Since switching to Arccos, I feel like have enough rounds on different courses that I'm comfortable that it is correct.

[Hook DeLoft]

On 9/2/2020 at 4:49 PM, GolfSpy MPR said:

Haven't checked in here in a bit; the last couple of weeks have involved a chunk of traveling and a little less playing. But I got out for a nine hole round this afternoon, and also decided to take a quick look at where things stand with my on-course performance with the 699 Pros.

I'm using the old Arccos system numbers here, because it's easier to use the web dashboard rather than the app when compared date ranges. I'm finding that in the new system, my overall handicap is slightly higher and my approach handicap is somewhat lower. But the numbers here should just be compared relatively.

Here's my overall handicap for this season before getting the 699 Pros, when I had the PING G700s in my bag:

And here's the rounds since I got the 699 Pros:

As I said in an earlier post, all else being equal, I'd rather have the 699s in my bag than the G700s. They're a pleasure to hit and they look great. That topline number suggests that perhaps all else is about equal.

But let's dig a level deeper and check the shot dispersion patterns before and after. Here's the before (limited to yardages that I'm likely to use my 5-PW):

And here's the rounds with the 699 Pros:

So there's an incremental gain in GIRs. Still nothing good there, but an increase is better than the alternative. What I'm more impressed by is the 8% drop in approaches short of the green, with those misses either hitting the green (2% more) or missing left and right, but still the correct distance (6% more).

I'm not quite sure why that wouldn't translate into a better overall approach handicap in Arccos, but that seems like a small but genuine improvement. At this point in my testing, the 699 Pros have won the subjective contest in a landslide, and they're beginning to pull ahead in the objective, statistical categories as well.

EDIT: I'll add here one picture from the new app. It shows my Strokes Gained: Approach trend line for my past 25 rounds. I think there is noticable improvement here as well.

Interesting.  You look to be a little bit more accurate with the 699s but your right side misses have increased (perhaps due to less offset?)  Good data.

[fixyurdivot]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:38 AM, GolfSpy MPR said:

 

Yep, @golfingbrock's reply is something I was going to say in reply to @THEZIPR23. My "no long" miss pattern is very common among the high-to-mid handicap crowd, because we all (hand raised) have a tendency to pick clubs based on "if I hit this properly."

I'm not even here talking about the guy who chooses his clubs based on "that one time when I was downwind of a cyclone on a fairway as baked out as Willie Nelson" distance. But it's very clear that I don't center my dispersion pattern over my target, which would lead to better scores.

It is my observation that a healthy 90% of approach shots I hit and those I play with, over decades of play, are short vs. long.  Oddly enough, on many courses, being long takes out most of the score stealing false fronts and bunkers.  One of my playing partners in Yuma has been pushing me to visit the backside of greens more often.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

It is my observation that a healthy 90% of approach shots I hit and those I play with, over decades of play, are short vs. long.  Oddly enough, on many courses, being long takes out most of the score stealing false fronts and bunkers.  One of my playing partners in Yuma has been pushing me to visit the backside of greens more often.

It depend on the courses architect.  My home course  is a Robert Trent Jones. You can't be long on 14 of the 18 holes. A lot of the greens are also sloped from back to front. If you are long the down hill putts will kill you. We have fast greens. True, if you come up short a lot you will find bunkers if you are not dead straight. You do have run ups if you are centered.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I went to the range Saturday to work on my Hybrids. My gap is between 180 ish to 195. I have 5 different hybrids that I have tried over time. I just hit them all like crap. Totally disgusted I gave up and went to play 18. Quite a mistake. I'm glad I didn't keep score because I would have been around 100.  It was so bad I just played the first 4 holes over and over. I didn't want to get to far from the car just incase I wanted to pack it in. Was just a terrible day. The hybrids got in my head. How can you hit every club in the bag well except for the hybrid?

I was talking to my wife over dinner about my dilemma with the missing club in my game. Then I brought up the 7 wood post. She then said she had one in her golf bag. Heck, what do I have to lose?

Went to play 18 this morning armed with my Sub 70 irons and my wife's 7 wood as well as the rest of my clubs. Ok  the shaft was whippy and the grip was small, but it was the missing ingredient. Hit it a few times on the range. Got to hit it twice in the round. Good results. Now looking for a mens 7 wood.

The 699 Pro's  are still doing well (Forget about Saturday, it was all  me). I had another decent round today. One bogey one birdie on the front and  3 bogeys and two birdies on the back . 36 / 36.    72

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Played 18 today on a course I haven't played in a few years with three friends. The irons performed well again. Even one of my playing partners commented on my iron flight being much better with these irons. Nothing spectacular, but a solid round. 36 on the front and 37 on the back for a one over 73.  One bogey due to a drive which ended up on the right side of the faiway but the green was blocked by a large tree. The rest of the holes were even par. Missed three birdie putts. But still very happy with these irons. 14 greens in regulation today.

[Smellis745]

Glad to hear things are still working out great for you Tom!  

[GolfSpy MPR]

I haven't played a ton of tracked rounds in the past couple of weeks. Golf league is over here, and so Thursday nights have switched to scrambles. In general, I leave Arccos off for events like that.

But my play with the 699 Pros continues to be what I hoped. They have not revolutionized my game; I'm not making any outlandish claims for them. In Arccos's revised stats system, I'm treading water handicap-wise, sitting right in the 10–11 range. But my approach game continues to be consistent and predictable, and it has improved with the 699 Pros over the PING G700s, which is something I wouldn't necessarily have predicted at the outset of this test.

Earlier, I posted my approach game shot distribution with both sets of irons. For a refresher, here were my shots with the PINGs from this season, before switching irons:

And here are my current numbers with the 699 Pros, with a few more rounds since my last post:

There are some fairly significant differences here from the last time I posted my numbers with the 699s. Last time, I was pleased to see my short misses diminishing enormously (they were down to 37.3%) and my GIRs slightly climbing (to 27.5%). I had more left/right misses with the 699s.

Now, my left/right misses are both lower than they were with the G700s, but the short misses have soared. Some of this might be attributable to the change in seasons; it's already starting to get colder here (most days have highs in the 50s or 60s), and I haven't adjusted my club choices accordingly. That said, both the old and new Arccos systems say that my approach handicap has trending in the correct direction by a little more than a stroke since switching to the 699s.

I'm still wanting to settle in to the garage this week to do some SkyTrak head-to-head numbers between the G700s and the 699 Pros. But as far as the on-course numbers go, I don't feel as though I've lost anything over my G700s.

For those following this review who are in the mid-handicap range with me, who can't relate well to the numbers that @Smellis745 and @Tom the Golf Nut are posting in this thread: I'll go ahead and say that if approach play isn't some radical (negative) outlier in your game, these are absolutely clubs you should consider. Subjectively, I think they check all the boxes for looks and feel. But I don't think that a reasonable mid-capper has any reason to feel intimidated by these irons.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

GolfSpy MPR have you been tracking your short misses to where you hit the ball on the club face?  I know if I miss slightly toward the toe I would come up short. It might be as simple as moving closer to the ball in your set up to remove a good portion of the short shots. That is of course if you are hitting toward the toe.  

[GolfSpy MPR]

2 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

GolfSpy MPR have you been tracking your short misses to where you hit the ball on the club face?  I know if I miss slightly toward the toe I would come up short. It might be as simple as moving closer to the ball in your set up to remove a good portion of the short shots. That is of course if you are hitting toward the toe.  

I haven't tracked strike location on a shot-by-shot basis, though it's an intriguing idea. I have absolutely experienced what you've described here: toe strikes with the 699 Pros have held their line very well, but also come up short of their target.

My short shots end up being a combination of things:

• I still know that I base my club selection on "if I hit this properly." Going a club up on every single approach shot, even if it's a blow to the ego, would almost certainly lift my GIRs.
• I have no skill in determining whether a shot from the rough will be penalized in distance or fly further than expected because of spin reduction.
• Occasionally, the issue is that I underestimate the influence of the wind on shots into the wind.

[Smellis745]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

For those following this review who are in the mid-handicap range with me, who can't relate well to the numbers that @Smellis745 and @Tom the Golf Nut are posting in this thread: I'll go ahead and say that if approach play isn't some radical (negative) outlier in your game, these are absolutely clubs you should consider. Subjectively, I think they check all the boxes for looks and feel. But I don't think that a reasonable mid-capper has any reason to feel intimidated by these irons.

This is one of the most important things I have learned throughout this review process.  I've been busy lately and we've had special tournaments going on the past few weekends so I've been relegated to mostly range work.  I've let several people hit these on the range lately and the consensus is they're just as good as any other iron in this category.  One guy, who plays TM 790s actually said he liked the way these felt over his gamers.  I think this iron is big enough to inspire confidence in someone who may not be the best ball striker, yet are not overly large to where someone who prefers a smaller club head will feel like they're swinging a shovel.  They really are a nice balance that can fit a lot of people.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

19 minutes ago, Smellis745 said:

This is one of the most important things I have learned throughout this review process.  I've been busy lately and we've had special tournaments going on the past few weekends so I've been relegated to mostly range work.  I've let several people hit these on the range lately and the consensus is they're just as good as any other iron in this category.  One guy, who plays TM 790s actually said he liked the way these felt over his gamers.  I think this iron is big enough to inspire confidence in someone who may not be the best ball striker, yet are not overly large to where someone who prefers a smaller club head will feel like they're swinging a shovel.  They really are a nice balance that can fit a lot of people.

Man, you guys are making me second guess myself with my latest PXG purchase. Hope i didn't go wrong by a few hundred bucks

[Tom the Golf Nut]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

• I have no skill in determining whether a shot from the rough will be penalized in distance or fly further than expected because of spin reduction.
• Occasionally, the issue is that I underestimate the influence of the wind on shots into the wind.

If I come up short I look at the club face before I clean it and put it back in the bag. This lets me know if I hit it good or not. If I did then I know it was either club selection, wind, or rough.

I havent experienced any fliers out of the rough but once in a while I'll see additional roll out.

For the wind thats an easy fix. Move away from the lake! 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I don't know what happened today. The weather dropped down to the low 50's overnight. Had to wear long pants and a pullover to play this morning. I can't  swing with a jacket or pullover. Just feels so restricting. I think I hit 5 greens in regulation.  Was straight on everything but short. Lucky I have a good short game. Still managed to pull off a 72. It wasnt pretty but a 72 is a 72.  Probably should have waited to play later in the day when it warmed back up. I always have the first tee time Sunday morning. They call me the 8am trail blazer. I finished 18 holes before anyone else even showed up to the course. 

[fixyurdivot]

On 8/31/2020 at 10:14 AM, Smellis745 said:

I was hitting off a mat on grass but these numbers don't seem to match up with what I've seen on the course with the 699 Pros.  On the course, they have been about a 1/2 to 3/4 club longer, launch higher, and spin less.  It's an interesting comparison in a static environment though, but shows the importance of hitting clubs on real turf and getting fitted there if possible.

That's a HUGE shift and a very important point; particularly if you are a ball/turf/compress striker.  I tend to be a bit more of a sweeper/butch cutter and mat vs. turf effect probably would not be that dramatic? In any case, I'd prefer to have my upcoming full bag fitting done on grass, but don't think that is likely.

[Smellis745]

Final review is up!!!

 

[Buffly]

16 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I don't know what happened today. The weather dropped down to the low 50's overnight. Had to wear long pants and a pullover to play this morning. I can't  swing with a jacket or pullover. Just feels so restricting. I think I hit 5 greens in regulation.  Was straight on everything but short. Lucky I have a good short game. Still managed to pull off a 72. It wasnt pretty but a 72 is a 72.  Probably should have waited to play later in the day when it warmed back up. I always have the first tee time Sunday morning. They call me the 8am trail blazer. I finished 18 holes before anyone else even showed up to the course. 

Great round. I am picky about my weather so, kudos to you for pushing through

[ejgaudette]

On 9/20/2020 at 8:02 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I don't know what happened today. The weather dropped down to the low 50's overnight. Had to wear long pants and a pullover to play this morning. I can't  swing with a jacket or pullover. Just feels so restricting. I think I hit 5 greens in regulation.  Was straight on everything but short. Lucky I have a good short game. Still managed to pull off a 72. It wasnt pretty but a 72 is a 72.  Probably should have waited to play later in the day when it warmed back up. I always have the first tee time Sunday morning. They call me the 8am trail blazer. I finished 18 holes before anyone else even showed up to the course. 

Just played last weekend too, front nine with a sweater on was 41 and felt like I held on. Took the layer off for the back 39, much better. I can do a think pull over at most.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

7 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

Just played last weekend too, front nine with a sweater on was 41 and felt like I held on. Took the layer off for the back 39, much better. I can do a think pull over at most.

Crap, your from NH you should be used to playing with additional layers on. We are still in shorts here!

[ejgaudette]

7 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Crap, your from NH you should be used to playing with additional layers on. We are still in shorts here!

I know right just can't get over it. Still in shorts here for now but pants and day now. If it get really cold I have too go with like the under armour layer under the shirt.

[GolfSpy MPR]

All three member reviews are up! Head to the first page to read our summaries of our time with the 699 Pro irons: 

 

[revkev]

I really enjoyed reading these reviews. Great job guys!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[newballcoach]

Guys, great reviews. I was SUPER interested in how this would go and I am glad to hear so many people had great experiences with sub70. They've been on my radar for a while and I'm looking forward to checking them out further. Thanks very much.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

51 minutes ago, newballcoach said:

Guys, great reviews. I was SUPER interested in how this would go and I am glad to hear so many people had great experiences with sub70. They've been on my radar for a while and I'm looking forward to checking them out further. Thanks very much.

Thanks for the feedback. If you have any questions feel free to reach out. I truly had a blast testing these and am enjoying them greatly. I have received many comments from people I regularly play with on how much my ball flight has improved and how much more consistant I am.

[MattF]

Nicely done guys.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

It was cold and windy this morning. I'm not sure if the fill material in the heads gets harder on colder days. But I did notice that I felt every shot more than in warmer weather and also noticed a slight loss of distance.  I checked impact position and that wasn't the issue. Thought the impact might have been more toward the toe but it wasn't. I know colder air is thicker but I don't think it was cold enough to impact that much.  I was still in shorts and it was 52 degrees. I did rotate balls from my pocket to use a warmer one at each tee.

[Hook DeLoft]

On 10/1/2020 at 9:00 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Thanks for the feedback. If you have any questions feel free to reach out. I truly had a blast testing these and am enjoying them greatly. I have received many comments from people I regularly play with on how much my ball flight has improved and how much more consistant I am.

 

On 11/1/2020 at 11:51 AM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

It was cold and windy this morning. I'm not sure if the fill material in the heads gets harder on colder days. But I did notice that I felt every shot more than in warmer weather and also noticed a slight loss of distance.  I checked impact position and that wasn't the issue. Thought the impact might have been more toward the toe but it wasn't. I know colder air is thicker but I don't think it was cold enough to impact that much.  I was still in shorts and it was 52 degrees. I did rotate balls from my pocket to use a warmer one at each tee.

At 52 degrees, I would be hitting an extra club.  I saw a rule of thumb for distance loss for every 10 degrees colder.  Can't find it now, but I do remember it was more than I expected.  I also saw in one of the golf magazines that the ball's temperature has very little effect.  It's all air temp.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

3 hours ago, Hook DeLoft said:

 

At 52 degrees, I would be hitting an extra club.  I saw a rule of thumb for distance loss for every 10 degrees colder.  Can't find it now, but I do remember it was more than I expected.  I also saw in one of the golf magazines that the ball's temperature has very little effect.  It's all air temp.

I found a few articles and they stated that you will lose 1 yard for every 10 degree temperature change. So if my normal distance is recorded on 80 degree days and its 50 i would only loose 3 yards. That's not even a club change in distance. Got to be more to it!