Invader Zim 315 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) So a bit of quick background- I am basically a self-taught golfer and I am still relatively new to the game. I have managed to get myself down to as low as an 8, shooting low 80s with the occasional high 70 score. My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80. (usually less than 40% per round I would argue). I have begun to think that this has a lot to do with a lack of control with my approach shots. I basically aim for the middle of the green and swing, watch it either draw or fade, and pray it catches a piece of the dancefloor. I would love to just find a shot and hit it reliably. So I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with a two way miss and how they made an effort to part ways with it. Moving the feet? Grip change perhaps? I don't care which way it moves, I would just like to finally have that "go-to shot" that seemingly all good players talk about. Cheers Edited July 29, 2020 by Zimbo Slice 12 aerospace_ray 1 Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Ill get this out of the way first...take a lesson, very few people on this forum are instructors. Do you know/understand the ball flight laws? No matter how little or how much you can move the ball can you curve the ball?Once you understand and feel like one particular shot shape works you can focus on that. Do you understand/know your shot dispersion for each club? Some balls go left and some balls go right. Aim the center of that circle at the spot that will minimize problems if you reach the outer edges of that pattern. This may cause you to aim at places you wouldn’t expect. Try to find the episode of Chris Como swing expedition with Scott fawcett this will give you an idea of what I am talking about. HardcoreLooper, THEZIPR23, Invader Zim 315 and 3 others 6 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanoito Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 For a self-taught golfer who is relatively new to the game, playing off 8 is an amazing feat! Congratz! With that beind said, I'm in no position to give you any advice But since you asked, my swing thought is: instead of aiming to the middle of the fairway or green and hoping for a straight shot, I set myself up for my natural shape, which is a fade. So now I always pick the left side of the tee box, neutral grip and swing away. 99% of the time it will be a fade that peels back into the fw or green. If I'm having a bad day and don't turn properly, I'll be pulling across the ball with an open face, and slicing. With luck, the ball will still be in play. I no longer try to hit a draw, since that causes about 70% of my penalties Mandatory disclaimer: not an instructor, just a hacker sharing thoughts on this forum. Invader Zim 315 and THEZIPR23 2 Quote SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0 Pro / H2NO Lite Cart Bag / 3.0 / NX7 Pro LRF My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim 315 Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, cnosil said: Ill get this out of the way first...take a lesson, very few people on this forum are instructors. Do you know/understand the ball flight laws? No matter how little or how much you can move the ball can you curve the ball? Once you understand and feel like one particular shot shape works you can focus on that. Do you understand/know your shot dispersion for each club? Some balls go left and some balls go right. Aim the center of that circle at the spot that will minimize problems if you reach the outer edges of that pattern. This may cause you to aim at places you wouldn’t expect. Try to find the episode of Chris Como swing expedition with Scott fawcett this will give you an idea of what I am talking about. Yah the lesson has been a long time coming and I could definitely use my first one. I have been stubborn and a little nervy about it though, for some reason it makes me think I will screw up the swing completely. I do understand the laws, just feel like my swing is so neutral in grip and stance that I open myself up to hitting it either way based on human error. I will definitely look into those videos, as well Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim 315 Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, Kanoito said: For a self-taught golfer who is relatively new to the game, playing off 8 is an amazing feat! Congratz! With that beind said, I'm in no position to give you any advice But since you asked, my swing thought is: instead of aiming to the middle of the fairway or green and hoping for a straight shot, I set myself up for my natural shape, which is a fade. So now I always pick the left side of the tee box, neutral grip and swing away. 99% of the time it will be a fade that peels back into the fw or green. If I'm having a bad day and don't turn properly, I'll be pulling across the ball with an open face, and slicing. With luck, the ball will still be in play. I no longer try to hit a draw, since that causes about 70% of my penalties Mandatory disclaimer: not an instructor, just a hacker sharing thoughts on this forum. Love that idea, I just need to figure out my natural shot shape first! haha but will definitely implement this once I do Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joen Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said: So a bit of quick background- I am basically a self-taught golfer and I am still relatively new to the game. I have managed to get myself down to as low as an 8, shooting low 80s with the occasional high 70 score. My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80. (usually less than 40% per round I would argue). I have begun to think that this has a lot to do with a lack of control with my approach shots. I basically aim for the middle of the green and swing, watch it either draw or fade, and pray it catches a piece of the dancefloor. I would love to just find a shot and hit it reliably. So I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with a two way miss and how they made an effort to part ways with it. Moving the feet? Grip change perhaps? I don't care which way it moves, I would just like to finally have that "go-to shot" that seemingly all good players talk about. Cheers Best thing you will ever do for your golf game and your sanity is to take lessons. It is a process. Expect it to take 12-18 months. But...if the instructor is good....at the end you will own your swing (as much as anyone can own something that varies from day to day)....and more importantly you will understand your misses and why....and what you need to do to right the ship so to speak. JNauss and Invader Zim 315 2 Quote G 400 driver with Aldila DVS 55-SR shaft (FAIRWAY FINDING MONSTER) Aero Burner 16 degree mini driver regular flex Rogue Heavenwood regular flex Icon/PTX Pro Combo Set. VKTR hybrid. Equalizer Wedges 50, 54, 58 degrees Odyssey Two Ball Triple Track Putter, 32 inches LAB Golf Directed Force 2.1 putter, 32 inches, 70 degree lie angle Right Handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newballcoach Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option. I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck! Invader Zim 315 1 Quote WITB Driver- PING G400 LST w/ Project X Evenflow Black Fwy- TM Aeroburner 16.5HL Irons- Callaway Steelhead XR (3-PW) Wedges- Callaway MD3 (50,54,58) Putter- Cleveland TFI Satin Cero Ball- Snell MTB-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 22 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said: Love that idea, I just need to figure out my natural shot shape first! haha but will definitely implement this once I do Chances are, you have technical flaws in your swing that you overcome with various compensations. That's common, most of us do that to some extent. The timing of those compensations can vary by really small amounts, but that small variation can be the difference between a hood and a fade. Instruction can help identify flaws, help you to learn to swing with fewer compensations, and develop a more consistent shot shape. 10 hours ago, newballcoach said: One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option. I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck! On another website I submitted videos of my swing and got some very good instruction, so I know that video-based instruction can help. It can be less expensive than in-person lessons, although seeing a good instructor in person would still be my recommended course of action. I'm not big on simply following generic online instruction, for one primary reason. You don't know what you're doing wrong, and you don't have the knowledge to diagnose your own swing on video. What you will see in your own videos is most likely to be a symptom of something, and there can be multiple possible causes for any one symptom. That ability to diagnose is one of the real gifts of the best instructors. Generic online instruction, by its very nature, doesn't address YOUR problems, it addresses generic problems. The "cure" that you try might actually be the worst thing possible given your own specific faults. Invader Zim 315, Micah T and aerospace_ray 3 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim 315 Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 13 hours ago, newballcoach said: One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option. I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck! That has definitely been an issue as well. There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches. I like the online idea too Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joen Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said: That has definitely been an issue as well. There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches. I like the online idea too If you are in the Syracuse area, then Jack Conger is a good choice for in person lessons. He follows the Mike Bender teaching methodology. He has been my coach for over 20 years. I highly recommend him. Invader Zim 315 and JNauss 2 Quote G 400 driver with Aldila DVS 55-SR shaft (FAIRWAY FINDING MONSTER) Aero Burner 16 degree mini driver regular flex Rogue Heavenwood regular flex Icon/PTX Pro Combo Set. VKTR hybrid. Equalizer Wedges 50, 54, 58 degrees Odyssey Two Ball Triple Track Putter, 32 inches LAB Golf Directed Force 2.1 putter, 32 inches, 70 degree lie angle Right Handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerospace_ray Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 7:45 AM, Zimbo Slice 12 said: My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80. (usually less than 40% per round I would argue). So absolutely agree with others regarding lessons, teaching instruction. Awesome you have enough length off tee to have short irons into greens. One question I thought of kinda is course management in nature. Are you hitting to the flag or picking spot/areas on the green when you miss? Reason I am asking is I use to play with a friend that was a former JUCO baseball player. Great athlete, hand/eye coordination and obviously swing speed. His weak link was hitting into greens. Not so much swing flaws but he went for the stick and air mailed half his approach shots. He finally as he got older learned to take like one less club and swing hard since that was his swing style (aggressive transition down). I for example am opposite and have slower swing speed and very smooth transition so I take many times one more club than needed to ensure I don't come up short. Just my two cents but thought I would share. Good luck. JNauss and Invader Zim 315 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newballcoach Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 7/30/2020 at 11:49 AM, Zimbo Slice 12 said: That has definitely been an issue as well. There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches. I like the online idea too Yeah the guy I went with sent me up over zoom and we had an hour together hitting balls in the backyard. Super chill, lots of fun and very helpful. Some guys will just analyze a video you take, I preferred this method. He also wanted me to film my swing and send them ahead of time, so he was prepared with some thoughts ahead of time. Scott Cowx is his name and he was the PGA Canada teacher of the year last year. Would recommend. Invader Zim 315 1 Quote WITB Driver- PING G400 LST w/ Project X Evenflow Black Fwy- TM Aeroburner 16.5HL Irons- Callaway Steelhead XR (3-PW) Wedges- Callaway MD3 (50,54,58) Putter- Cleveland TFI Satin Cero Ball- Snell MTB-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLooper Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I'd also recommend having a talk with your instructor beforehand to help the teacher understand what you hope to achieve, and what are you willing and able to put into it? You may not have the time to invest in a complete swing overhaul, so your teacher should know that in advance. Or maybe you're in a position that you can practice for a few hours every day. Only you know the answer to that, but it can make for an awkward relationship with your teacher if you're not on the same page. Invader Zim 315 1 Quote What's in the bag: Driver - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Wood (13.5*) - 980F 4 Wood (18*) - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Hybrid (19*) - RBZ 4i - PW - D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S ) 52* - CBX 58* - CBX Full Face 2 Putter - Craz-e Bag - 2.5 (Blue) Ball - AVX Instagram - @hardcorelooper Twitter - @meovino Facebook - mike.eovino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah T Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 You sound like someone who’s willing to put in the work to improve, so you should definitely start interviewing instructors. Knowing what you do right and what you do wrong, and having an instructor who explains things in a way that click for you will help you more than any YouTube video! And that’s not a knock against generic instruction: generic revolution golf videos and the like took me to a 15 from a 36 in under 2 years. But I’d still be there if I hadn’t found an in person instructor to fix my grip, shorten my swing and explain the “why” to me. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Invader Zim 315 1 Quote Driver - Cobra LtDxLS 3 Wood - Ping g410 LST 2iron - Titleist U505 Irons - Ping i59 Wedges - Vokey Sm9 Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim 315 Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/30/2020 at 9:26 PM, aerospace_ray said: So absolutely agree with others regarding lessons, teaching instruction. Awesome you have enough length off tee to have short irons into greens. One question I thought of kinda is course management in nature. Are you hitting to the flag or picking spot/areas on the green when you miss? Reason I am asking is I use to play with a friend that was a former JUCO baseball player. Great athlete, hand/eye coordination and obviously swing speed. His weak link was hitting into greens. Not so much swing flaws but he went for the stick and air mailed half his approach shots. He finally as he got older learned to take like one less club and swing hard since that was his swing style (aggressive transition down). I for example am opposite and have slower swing speed and very smooth transition so I take many times one more club than needed to ensure I don't come up short. Just my two cents but thought I would share. Good luck. Definitely something I have worked on this year and its helped a lot. Obviously depends on pin location but I have a good gauge for distance with each club and I have been trying to make it soo that my miss is in a good position to get up and down. Like I said, it has helped, but there are certainly times that I aim to the left side with the hope it fades, but then it draws.. Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader Zim 315 Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 Thank you all for the awesome responses... went out and shot a 79 and an 81 this weekend and was happy with the results (basically aimed my feet and body left and tried to play a fade on every shot). Basically, the plan (as almost everyone on here has said) is to finally go to an instructor and to grind out any swing changes. Soon enough I hope to consistently get into those 70s! I hope to update the thread as I A) search to find an instructor either in person or online and B) as I begin to make those changes. Cheers all JNauss, cnosil, HardcoreLooper and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: 2023 Callaway Paradym - Tensei AV White 65X 3w: Mizuno GT 180 14 degree 5w: Cobra Rad Speed 19 degree Irons: Mizuno Pro 225 4-PW Wedges: Vokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M Putter: TaylorMade GTX black Ball: Titleist Pro V1x #7 2023 Callaway Paradym Driver Tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNH Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 If the ball is starting on line at the middle of the green like you describe and you just don't know whether it's going to draw or fade from there then find a feel the gets the ball curving consistently in one direction and adjust your aim point to the opposite edge of the green. Invader Zim 315 1 Quote Mavrik 9* Driver / Mavrik 15* 3W / Callaway Razr Fit 18* 5W (stiff graphite, standard) Callaway X2hot pro 2 hybrid, Taylormade GAPR High 4 (stiff graphite, standard) Sub 70 699/Pro combo 5 - PW (stiff graphite, standard length, 1 deg upright lie) Cleveland CBX2 50* & 54* / Ping Glide 2.0 60* Odysee Triple Track 10 Putter / Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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