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Zimbo Slice 12

The Quest to Correct My Two Way Miss - Help Appreciated!

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Posted (edited)

So a bit of quick background- I am basically a self-taught golfer and I am still relatively new to the game.  I have managed to get myself down to as low as an 8, shooting low 80s with the occasional high 70 score.  My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80.  (usually less than 40% per round I would argue).

I have begun to think that this has a lot to do with a lack of control with my approach shots.  I basically aim for the middle of the green and swing, watch it either draw or fade, and pray it catches a piece of the dancefloor.  I would love to just find a shot and hit it reliably.

So I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with a two way miss and how they made an effort to part ways with it.  Moving the feet? Grip change perhaps?  I don't care which way it moves, I would just like to finally have that "go-to shot" that seemingly all good players talk about.

 

Cheers

Edited by Zimbo Slice 12
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Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
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Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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Ill get this out of the way first...take a lesson, very few people on this forum are instructors.

Do you know/understand the ball flight laws? No matter how little or how much you can move the ball can you curve the ball?

Once you understand and feel like one particular shot shape works you can focus on that.

Do you understand/know your shot dispersion for each club? Some balls go left and some balls go right. Aim the center of that circle at the spot that will minimize problems if you reach the outer edges of that pattern. This may cause you to aim at places you wouldn’t expect. Try to find the episode of Chris Como swing expedition with Scott fawcett this will give you an idea of what I am talking about.

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For a self-taught golfer who is relatively new to the game, playing off 8 is an amazing feat! Congratz! 

With that beind said, I'm in no position to give you any advice 😄

But since you asked, my swing thought is: instead of aiming to the middle of the fairway or green and hoping for a straight shot, I set myself up for my natural shape, which is a fade. So now I always pick the left side of the tee box, neutral grip and swing away. 99% of the time it will be a fade that peels back into the fw or green.

If I'm having a bad day and don't turn properly, I'll be pulling across the ball with an open face, and slicing. With luck, the ball will still be in play.

I no longer try to hit a draw, since that causes about 70% of my penalties 🙂

Mandatory disclaimer: not an instructor, just a hacker sharing thoughts on this forum.

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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Ill get this out of the way first...take a lesson, very few people on this forum are instructors.

Do you know/understand the ball flight laws? No matter how little or how much you can move the ball can you curve the ball?

Once you understand and feel like one particular shot shape works you can focus on that.

Do you understand/know your shot dispersion for each club? Some balls go left and some balls go right. Aim the center of that circle at the spot that will minimize problems if you reach the outer edges of that pattern. This may cause you to aim at places you wouldn’t expect. Try to find the episode of Chris Como swing expedition with Scott fawcett this will give you an idea of what I am talking about.

Yah the lesson has been a long time coming and I could definitely use my first one. I have been stubborn and a little nervy about it though, for some reason it makes me think I will screw up the swing completely.

I do understand the laws, just feel like my swing is so neutral in grip and stance that I open myself up to hitting it either way based on human error.  I will definitely look into those videos, as well


Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
Wedges: default_titelist-small.jpg.920d52649433e5fee234ad27e55c0091.jpgVokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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9 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

For a self-taught golfer who is relatively new to the game, playing off 8 is an amazing feat! Congratz! 

With that beind said, I'm in no position to give you any advice 😄

But since you asked, my swing thought is: instead of aiming to the middle of the fairway or green and hoping for a straight shot, I set myself up for my natural shape, which is a fade. So now I always pick the left side of the tee box, neutral grip and swing away. 99% of the time it will be a fade that peels back into the fw or green.

If I'm having a bad day and don't turn properly, I'll be pulling across the ball with an open face, and slicing. With luck, the ball will still be in play.

I no longer try to hit a draw, since that causes about 70% of my penalties 🙂

Mandatory disclaimer: not an instructor, just a hacker sharing thoughts on this forum.

Love that idea, I just need to figure out my natural shot shape first! haha but will definitely implement this once I do


Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
Wedges: default_titelist-small.jpg.920d52649433e5fee234ad27e55c0091.jpgVokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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6 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said:

So a bit of quick background- I am basically a self-taught golfer and I am still relatively new to the game.  I have managed to get myself down to as low as an 8, shooting low 80s with the occasional high 70 score.  My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80.  (usually less than 40% per round I would argue).

I have begun to think that this has a lot to do with a lack of control with my approach shots.  I basically aim for the middle of the green and swing, watch it either draw or fade, and pray it catches a piece of the dancefloor.  I would love to just find a shot and hit it reliably.

So I was wondering if anyone else has dealt with a two way miss and how they made an effort to part ways with it.  Moving the feet? Grip change perhaps?  I don't care which way it moves, I would just like to finally have that "go-to shot" that seemingly all good players talk about.

 

Cheers

Best thing you will ever do for your golf game and your sanity is to take lessons. It is a process. Expect it to take 12-18 months. But...if the instructor is good....at the end you will own your swing (as much as anyone can own something that varies from day to day)....and more importantly you will understand your misses and why....and what you need to do to right the ship so to speak. 

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One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option.

I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck!

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22 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said:

Love that idea, I just need to figure out my natural shot shape first! haha but will definitely implement this once I do

Chances are, you have technical flaws in your swing that you overcome with various compensations.  That's common, most of us do that to some extent.  The timing of those compensations can vary by really small amounts, but that small variation can be the difference between a hood and a fade.  Instruction can help identify flaws, help you to learn to swing with fewer compensations, and develop a more consistent shot shape.  

10 hours ago, newballcoach said:

One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option.

I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck!

On another website I submitted videos of my swing and got some very good instruction, so I know that video-based instruction can help.  It can be less expensive than in-person lessons, although seeing a good instructor in person would still be my recommended course of action.  I'm not big on simply following generic online instruction, for one primary reason.  You don't know what you're doing wrong, and you don't have the knowledge to diagnose your own swing on video.  What you will see in your own videos is most likely to be a symptom of something, and there can be multiple possible causes for any one symptom.  That ability to diagnose is one of the real gifts of the best instructors.  Generic online instruction, by its very nature, doesn't address YOUR problems, it addresses generic problems.  The "cure" that you try might actually be the worst thing possible given your own specific faults.  

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13 hours ago, newballcoach said:

One thing I would recommend that a lot of instructors are doing right now (I've had success with this) is an online lesson. If you're not sure about any good teachers close to you, or have trouble getting the time to do in-person lessons, you can do a lesson from the privacy of your own house/yard. It worked well for me, so you could try that as an easier option.

I would also recommend following instructors like Mike Bender and Travis Fulton on instagram. Travis has helped me and has great video courses to check out. Good luck!

That has definitely been an issue as well.  There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches.  I like the online idea too


Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
Wedges: default_titelist-small.jpg.920d52649433e5fee234ad27e55c0091.jpgVokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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2 hours ago, Zimbo Slice 12 said:

That has definitely been an issue as well.  There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches.  I like the online idea too

If you are in the Syracuse area, then Jack Conger is a good choice for in person lessons. He follows the Mike Bender teaching methodology. He has been my coach for over 20 years. I highly recommend him. 

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:ping-small: G 400 driver with Aldila DVS 55-SR shaft (FAIRWAY FINDING MONSTER)

:taylormade-small: Aero Burner 16 degree mini driver regular flex

:callaway-logo-1: Rogue Heavenwood regular flex shaft

:cleveland-small: Launcher HB irons 4-6 regular flex

:mizuno-small: JPX 850 7 iron thru Gap Wedge with KBS C taper lite shaft

:mizuno-small: S 5 wedges. 56/16 and 60/06.

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On 7/29/2020 at 7:45 AM, Zimbo Slice 12 said:

My strength has most definitely been my length off the tee to this point and I leave myself a lot of short irons in. But, I don't hit nearly as many greens as I would like, and I am confident that if I hit more of them I can consistently break 80.  (usually less than 40% per round I would argue).

So absolutely agree with others regarding lessons, teaching instruction. Awesome you have enough length off tee to have short irons into greens.

One question I thought of kinda is  course management in nature. Are you hitting to the flag or picking spot/areas on the green when you miss?

Reason I am asking is I use to play with a friend that was a former JUCO baseball player. Great athlete, hand/eye coordination and obviously swing speed. His weak link was hitting into greens. Not so much swing flaws but he went for the stick and air mailed half his approach shots. He finally as he got older learned to take like one less club and swing hard since that was his swing style (aggressive transition down).

I for example am opposite and have slower swing speed and very smooth transition so I take many times one more club than needed to ensure I don't come up short. Just my two cents but thought I would share. Good luck. 

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On 7/30/2020 at 11:49 AM, Zimbo Slice 12 said:

That has definitely been an issue as well.  There are some lessons available in the area but not really any coaches.  I like the online idea too

Yeah the guy I went with sent me up over zoom and we had an hour together hitting balls in the backyard. Super chill, lots of fun and very helpful. Some guys will just analyze a video you take, I preferred this method. He also wanted me to film my swing and send them ahead of time, so he was prepared with some thoughts ahead of time.

Scott Cowx is his name and he was the PGA Canada teacher of the year last year. Would recommend.

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I'd also recommend having a talk with your instructor beforehand to help the teacher understand what you hope to achieve, and what are you willing and able to put into it?  You may not have the time to invest in a complete swing overhaul, so your teacher should know that in advance.  Or maybe you're in a position that you can practice for a few hours every day.  Only you know the answer to that, but it can make for an awkward relationship with your teacher if you're not on the same page.

 

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You sound like someone who’s willing to put in the work to improve, so you should definitely start interviewing instructors. Knowing what you do right and what you do wrong, and having an instructor who explains things in a way that click for you will help you more than any YouTube video! And that’s not a knock against generic instruction: generic revolution golf videos and the like took me to a 15 from a 36 in under 2 years. But I’d still be there if I hadn’t found an in person instructor to fix my grip, shorten my swing and explain the “why” to me.

 

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:26 PM, aerospace_ray said:

So absolutely agree with others regarding lessons, teaching instruction. Awesome you have enough length off tee to have short irons into greens.

One question I thought of kinda is  course management in nature. Are you hitting to the flag or picking spot/areas on the green when you miss?

Reason I am asking is I use to play with a friend that was a former JUCO baseball player. Great athlete, hand/eye coordination and obviously swing speed. His weak link was hitting into greens. Not so much swing flaws but he went for the stick and air mailed half his approach shots. He finally as he got older learned to take like one less club and swing hard since that was his swing style (aggressive transition down).

I for example am opposite and have slower swing speed and very smooth transition so I take many times one more club than needed to ensure I don't come up short. Just my two cents but thought I would share. Good luck. 

Definitely something I have worked on this year and its helped a lot. Obviously depends on pin location but I have a good gauge for distance with each club and I have been trying to make it soo that my miss is in a good position to get up and down.  Like I said, it has helped, but there are certainly times that I aim to the left side with the hope it fades, but then it draws..


Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
Wedges: default_titelist-small.jpg.920d52649433e5fee234ad27e55c0091.jpgVokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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Thank you all for the awesome responses... went out and shot a 79 and an 81 this weekend and was happy with the results (basically aimed my feet and body left and tried to play a fade on every shot).  

Basically, the plan (as almost everyone on here has said) is to finally go to an instructor and to grind out any swing changes.  Soon enough I hope to consistently get into those 70s!

I hope to update the thread as I A) search to find an instructor either in person or online and B) as I begin to make those changes.

 

Cheers all

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Driver:default_taylormade-small.jpg.7261af28af5ff1c291b0cc05a9d9285e.jpg 2017 Taylormade M1 w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3w:default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpg Mizuno GT 180 15 degree w/ Tensei CK Blue 60 S Shaft
3H: default_ping-small.jpg.55bc8955cd3f9db9084a49fa2d8186d6.jpgPing g400 19 degree w/ Alta CB 70 Stiff
4-PW: default_mizuno-small.jpg.53d0e81fbaf5c93bffca28dc6fe15a88.jpgMizuno MP-63 w/ True Temper S300
Wedges: default_titelist-small.jpg.920d52649433e5fee234ad27e55c0091.jpgVokey SM7 52F, 56M, 60M
Putter: default_cleveland-small.jpg.2a5a328012300c4d34355e56e5490ae4.jpgCleveland Huntington Beach SOFT 1
Ball:default_srixon-small.jpg.9b0fc8a90c9d2064823de4fef895a1bf.jpg Srixon Z-Star

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If the ball is starting on line at the middle of the green like you describe and you just don't know whether it's going to draw or fade from there then find a feel the gets the ball curving consistently in one direction and adjust your aim point to the opposite edge of the green.

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