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I'm a high 25ish handicap who has been working with the same instructor for the past 4 or 5 years recently hes disappeared and I've been out on my own during this quarantine spending a lot of time working on my swing plane and using a planemate. I was originally going to get new irons early summer but this plans got put on hold with the virus. Do you guys think I should go out and get fitted for new clubs, currently playing stock rocketballz or should I try to find a new instructor and take a few lessons from him first. 

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What are your goals for your golf game? Are you going to get fitted or just buy off the shelf? Do you just want new irons or do you think they will help your game?

In my opinion if you are evaluating lessons vs new clubs the lesson path wins for me.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, Patriots68 said:

I'm a high 25ish handicap who has been working with the same instructor for the past 4 or 5 years recently hes disappeared and I've been out on my own during this quarantine spending a lot of time working on my swing plane and using a planemate. I was originally going to get new irons early summer but this plans got put on hold with the virus. Do you guys think I should go out and get fitted for new clubs, currently playing stock rocketballz or should I try to find a new instructor and take a few lessons from him first. 

A couple things to consider here. First, have you seen meaningful improvements in the last 4 or 5 years? If you are putting in the time working on your game, then I would have expected to see some very noticeable improvement in your scores over that time frame. If the answer is yes to putting in the time and no on the improvement front then I think it is a no brainer to find a new instructor. Different instructors have different methods and different ways of addressing the same issues so whatever approach he is taking may not work for you. 

Ideally, you could find a new instructor who is also able to fit you for clubs. Having a fitter who knows what you are working on would be helpful in getting the right clubs for where you are now and where he thinks he can get you to in the near future. If that isn't an option, I would get lessons first then do the fitting. 

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You have to ask yourself what you are looking to get out of your time/money spent. Generally I say lessons will produce much more value over time if you’re wanting to get better. I would be pretty unhappy if I spent years working with an instructor and was a 25 handicap, but that’s really based on how much time you practice and play. Some people play every few weeks and have a few lessons a year and enjoy the game while others play weekly and really try to get better. Either way, if your goal is improvement, lessons are the way to go. New clubs are nice and exciting but they won’t make you play better.


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RBZ are from what I have read, good clubs. Being 25ish what is your bad shot, slice, hook pull etc. New clubs will not fix a problem in a swing, so I would recommend that you find a new instructor. Was you previous instructor trying to fix a problem or building your swing. I have always found good instructors start form at beginning and work through all aspects of a swing, not just fix a problem. For example my wife hit the ball really well,  how, I was not sure as she had 2-3 things she did that were not right. Her biggest issue was consistency because she had to do  all 3 things exactly the same or she mishit. Sam the pro we we went to started at her grip and take away in lesson 1 and finished with her downswing in lesson 4. All of this was recorded using V1so now she can refer back to each lesson should she revert back to her old swing which she does.

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Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Currently Costco Kirkland Performance 3 Piece but Seed 001 is preferred.

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6 hours ago, cnosil said:

What are your goals for your golf game? Are you going to get fitted or just buy off the shelf? Do you just want new irons or do you think they will help your game?

In my opinion if you are evaluating lessons vs new clubs the lesson path wins for me.

I'm planning on getting fitted and hoping it helps my game. I'm also planning on continuing lessons but need to find a new instructor before I continue with them the guy I've been using has become difficult to get a lesson slot with.

I've seen 3 different instructors over my 10 years of playing, the first guy who I was with for a year asked me if I was even practicing, I was doing it every day. The 2nd guy left the area for a resort course, and the 3rd guy who's become increasingly difficult to get in touch with who I've been with for the last 4 or 5 years I've probably dropped 20 strokes with and has told me numerous times that I should be in the mid 80s from what he's seen. I'm really desperate to find something to get me to stop struggling to get around.

I know I'm a terrible athlete and highly uncoordinated so I don't expect miracles from anyone just trying to make whatever improvements I can. 

Sounds like I should wait on the club thing and just continue with the lessons. The guy I was taking lessons from thought I should replace my clubs but he did work at the local golf shop.

 

Edited by Patriots68
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7 minutes ago, Patriots68 said:

I'm planning on getting fitted and hoping it helps my game. I'm also planning on continuing lessons but need to find a new instructor before I continue with them the guy I've been using has become difficult to get a lesson slot with.

I'd find a new instructor and see what he thinks about your clubs and what you should potentially do. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Go find a new instructor. It will be the best way to improve your game. Once you have a good swing grooved then you can have your current irons evaluated with your swing and fit requirements. A good instructor will know if your current clubs are ok for now.

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Driver, Ping G400 11* SR Flex

3 Wood, TaylorMade SLDR 17*  R Flex

5 Wood, TaylorMade SLDR 19* R Flex

Hybrid, Cobra Amp 24* R Flex

Irons, Sub 70 699 Pro's S Flex (5 - AW)

Wedges, Cleveland CBX 56* & 60*

Putter, Odyssey Marksman Fang 35"

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It sounds like you definitely should find a new instructor.  Unless you're talking 1 or 2 lessons a year, most people probably would have improved beyond a 25 after 5 years. The fact that this guy is now hard to get a hold of is just the icing on the cake. Improvement in the beginning is usually pretty rapid and then obviously the better you get, the harder it is to improve. 

Edit: also, if you want to get new irons for the sake of getting new irons then that is perfectly OK. I bet half the sales in golf every year are just because people want something new rather than need it. Get a few lessons under your belt with the new guy and when you are feeling good about where you are then go get fit for new clubs, just don't expect them to make any substantial difference in your  game. 

Edited by ChitownM2
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Whenever someone asks a question like this, i think he/she is hoping that someone will answer "buy new clubs". Nothing wrong with wanting new clubs and buying new clubs regardless of your skill level. But if you do buy them, don't expect a miracle. However, there may be some mental benefit to buying new clubs, you may feel more confident that you have newer equipment, you may be more inspired, etc. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 10/6/2020
Driver:taylormade-small:SIM Max 10.5 - Fujikura Ventus Red 5S Velocore (the real one)
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:callaway-small:Mavrik Max 5 - AW - Nippon Neo 950GH S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge flex
Putter:  LAB Golf Directed Force 2.1

Current Putter Collection: LAB Golf DIrected Force 1, :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier #11, :cameron-small: La Costa 1st 500, :scotty-small: Squareback 1 (2008)
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have to agree with most replies.  Clubs are not going to make a difference.  If you want them, buy them because you want something new, not to improve your game.  I have reached my handicap using a set of $150 knockoffs I bought from a place in Florida, and then a set of used Burner 2.0's I bought 5 years ago.  Just went and purchased new Mavriks because I retired and "wanted" them,   AND MY WIFE SAID IT WAS OK!!.

I am no instructor, and I have never had a golf lesson in my life.  BUT  The first unsettling thing I hear is working on swing plane.   I found a swing that works for me and I stick with it.  If you don't slice a 9 iron or pitching wedge from 125 yards, then your swing is fine.  Just repeat that 9 iron swing with every club, and don't think about it too much.  Let me repeat that!  DON'T THINK TOO MUCH.  Played with a lot of guys, who every (bad result swing) want to blame mechanics/ equipment because that should be an easy fix, ( and I'm not saying this is you, don't know you) it was, " didn't follow through,  hips got in the way,  turned my hands over too much, lagging back, hips to fast, too quick a transition from the top, etc. etc, etc.)

My advice is this.  Hard to find, and its a really  old one. " Tom Watson's Strategic Golf" should be your guide. 500 yard par 5 no problem.   5 iron, 5 iron, 5 iron, and you'll be on or just off around the green.  Chip on and hopefully 2- putts for 5-6.  Don't hit driver(or any other club) if its going to end up in trouble, or you can't get it off the ground yet. That was Tom Watson's point for higher handicappers to improve their scores. His point was if you are shooting mid 90's the key is to keep the ball in play, and avoid bad shots, don't worry about hitting great ones.You likely get the ball off the ground most of the time.  If you are seeking improvement in your score, then just like me and everyone else regardless of handicap, remember that 40-60 percent of the strokes you take in a round are likely coming from within 130 yards and likely 50 yards or so of the green.. PUTTS & CHIPS!!

If you want to improve your scores from where they are then you need to avoid toppers and muffed hits, coming from using clubs from the tee box and fairway you are less likely to hit cleanly and get off the ground, use ones you can.  Go to a practice area and practice chipping and putting.  3 putting once a round instead of 4 times is 3 strokes saved.    The putting comes from being able to chip the ball to a guaranteed 2 putt range, not skull it across the green, or muff it two feet in front of you, and even to tap in one putt range as you improve.  Keep track of  toppers, muffed chips and three putts, and how many times you get in trouble because your driver goes well off the fairway into the woods/trouble.  Eliminate these things and your scores will improve quickly.  Very few of the things I listed will really be improved with lessons, or new equipment.  Clean contact and distance control,  chipping the ball 35 feet can be practiced in your back yard or just about anywhere.

I'm sure this is a much longer response than you wanted.  I bought the Tom Watson book when I bought my first compete set of clubs for 150 dollars 30 years ago.  Teed off with a 3 iron that came with that set for 3-4 years until I started to try and hit driver, which sliced terribly(hence 3-iron it didn't slice as much and stayed nearer the fairway). Kept the ball in play.(AGAIN NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU, BUT DON'T LET EGO PREVENT YOU FROM HITTING 5 IRON OFF A SHORT PAR 4, WHEN ALL OF YOUR BUDDIES ARE HITTING DRIVER AND TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE GREEN AS THEY CAN & SWING EASY WITH A 7 IRON ON A PAR 3 WHEN YOUR BUDDIES ARE MUSCLING THEIR 8'S AND 9'S, KEEP IT IN PLAY  My overall point is this.  Like many comments above I don't know your circumstances, but if you can afford without difficulty lessons, and $1,500.00 for a top of the line new set of clubs, then more power to you.  I would venture to say however that absent practice/ playing rounds of golf your scores won't substantially improve. 

Hope this information and perhaps different perspective on lessons and equipment helps.

Don D.

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Driver: :nike-small:VR Pro

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 7:56 PM, Patriots68 said:

I'm planning on getting fitted and hoping it helps my game. I'm also planning on continuing lessons but need to find a new instructor before I continue with them the guy I've been using has become difficult to get a lesson slot with.

I've seen 3 different instructors over my 10 years of playing, the first guy who I was with for a year asked me if I was even practicing, I was doing it every day. The 2nd guy left the area for a resort course, and the 3rd guy who's become increasingly difficult to get in touch with who I've been with for the last 4 or 5 years I've probably dropped 20 strokes with and has told me numerous times that I should be in the mid 80s from what he's seen. I'm really desperate to find something to get me to stop struggling to get around.

I know I'm a terrible athlete and highly uncoordinated so I don't expect miracles from anyone just trying to make whatever improvements I can. 

Sounds like I should wait on the club thing and just continue with the lessons. The guy I was taking lessons from thought I should replace my clubs but he did work at the local golf shop.

 

A few things have jumped out at me from this answer. 

 

First, I disagree with those who are thinking that clubs won't make a difference.  They may not but what if they are a total misfit?  Upright when they should be flat, tour stiff when they should be R, you see the issue?  Having written that I think it's time to find a good teacher, take a lesson, have him look at all of your clubs and get his advice.  I'd get the lesson first because right now you may not be able to tell if the clubs are a misfit.  If you told us what your miss pattern is it still wouldn't matter because we'd be guessing as to whether it were the misfit or a swing flaw or both.  That could compound the issues.

Second,  if what your instructor was telling you is true, that with your swing and ball striking ability you should break 90, you might consider two specific lessons to address those items which are probably holding you back.  A short game lesson and a playing lessons.  Get the teacher, get fit for the irons (and whatever else you might need), get the proper ball for your swing profile, work on the short game, course management and continue to practice.  You may well be shooting in the 80's next year. 

 

Good luck!  

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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Alright have to agree with   this post.  Yes firstly everyone needs to ensure that their clubs are the right length for them not too short or long. Loft/Lie I'm not sure is really important to get from 95 down to 88 regularly? Yes I found out purchasing a beginner set when they held that stick thing against me  that I needed +1 clubs 6"3" with not so long arms(I'm not like a t-rex or anything).  That is a must.  Played with  one guy in particular who was 6'6" but who had really long arms, and he actually needed needed shorter clubs.  I agree with making sure your present clubs are not a total misfit!!

Driver: :nike-small:VR Pro

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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Obviously, what you want to do is up to you, and I'm not good enough to offer any life changing advice, but I'll just share a bit about my experience and that might help you make a better decision. 

I've been playing for 20+ years and have largely been self-taught. I'm playing with 13 year old used irons and gently used driver/woods. My game had plateaued and I could effectively get around the course shooting between 88 and 98 depending on how much effort I'd been putting in recently before the round. Since the pandemic, I've been playing more and I found that I'm not comfortable with the inconsistency, so I started thinking about making equipment changes.

Before I did, I decided to get a lesson from a pro that also does fittings. He reviewed my swing and called out the good and the bad in it. What I've learned is that equipment changes could help, but there's enough going on in my swing that new clubs may give me a short term fix and present a small improvement in my game, but I'll never get the consistency I want without working on the swing. 

So I've decided to stick with lessons and practice and if I can get to shooting in the 80s with my existing clubs for a season, I'll upgrade then and get fit with my pro, who after a full season, should know my swing and idiosyncrasies. Ultimately, I've decided that I should set some goals (like consistent play, regular scoring, etc.) so that when I get fit for new clubs, I'm making one investment to enhance a game that I'm pretty happy with rather than an investment to try to fix something I'm unhappy with. 

In sum, to answer your question, I think it's worth scoping out a new pro- someone that has the ability to record and review your swing (video was a major breakthrough for me) and ideally, someone that could in the future do a fitting for you if you wanted to go that route. Once there I suggest setting some goals with the pro outright- what do you hope to accomplish and how is he going to get you there- maybe that means playing lessons instead of lessons at the range, and yes, tell him you're interested in new clubs in the future, but not until you have enough swing consistency to benefit from it. 

--
Driver: :callaway-small: GBB Epic Sub Zero 10.5* X-Stiff -- Currently borrowing an Epic Flash, as the GBB was damaged during practice, and loving it
3 Wood: :callaway-small: Epic Flash 3W X-Stiff
Irons: Nickent 3DX Pro 3-PW Stiff
Wedges: :titelist-small: Vokey Spin Milled 52.08* , 56.10* :cleveland-small: CG16 60.12*
Putter: :odyssey-small: WhiteHot RX-7
Ball: Testing Snell MTB-Black & MTB-X
RH

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My last word.  Keep track of your stats.  There are many free or pay sights out there where you can input, putts, drives in fairway, up and downs, sand saves out there I use Free Golf Tracker.  I'm not trying to bash pro's and lessons, and video  recorded swings.  Since 2008, with a couple years in there where I didn't enter any stats I have 120 rounds entered 14-20 rounds a year, this is not all of them sometimes I was too lazy to enter them.In 2008 my average score of 22 rounds entered was 92.  Since 2008 my birdie percentage has remained consistent at less than 5% @2.5-3%,  The number of Bogies that I have recorded has changed very little since 2008 41% down to 38%.  Triple bogies from 5.2% down to 2.6%, and others worse than triple a constant 2 or so %.  Here is what changed.  About 4 years ago when still shooting 88-92 I literally read an article in Golf magazine about chipping, and short game.  NO full swing, don't break your wrists-use a putting stroke, feet close together slightly  open of the target line so you can follow the clubhead toward the target without your hips getting in the way and preventing your follow through.  Oh and pitching and chipping a general rule of thumb is fly the ball about half way to the hole.  with some practice the flubbed and toed chips and pitches began to disappear. My proximity to the hole on chips began to improve.  Par percentage went from 23 to 39, and  double bogeys went from 27 to 13 percent.  More than likely your full shots are not the problem.  Its around the green.

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Driver: :nike-small:VR Pro

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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On 8/19/2020 at 9:59 AM, revkev said:

A few things have jumped out at me from this answer. 

 

First, I disagree with those who are thinking that clubs won't make a difference.  They may not but what if they are a total misfit?  Upright when they should be flat, tour stiff when they should be R, you see the issue?  Having written that I think it's time to find a good teacher, take a lesson, have him look at all of your clubs and get his advice.  I'd get the lesson first because right now you may not be able to tell if the clubs are a misfit.  If you told us what your miss pattern is it still wouldn't matter because we'd be guessing as to whether it were the misfit or a swing flaw or both.  That could compound the issues.

Second,  if what your instructor was telling you is true, that with your swing and ball striking ability you should break 90, you might consider two specific lessons to address those items which are probably holding you back.  A short game lesson and a playing lessons.  Get the teacher, get fit for the irons (and whatever else you might need), get the proper ball for your swing profile, work on the short game, course management and continue to practice.  You may well be shooting in the 80's next year. 

 

Good luck!  

 

On 8/19/2020 at 10:20 AM, stuka44 said:

Alright have to agree with   this post.  Yes firstly everyone needs to ensure that their clubs are the right length for them not too short or long. Loft/Lie I'm not sure is really important to get from 95 down to 88 regularly? Yes I found out purchasing a beginner set when they held that stick thing against me  that I needed +1 clubs 6"3" with not so long arms(I'm not like a t-rex or anything).  That is a must.  Played with  one guy in particular who was 6'6" but who had really long arms, and he actually needed needed shorter clubs.  I agree with making sure your present clubs are not a total misfit!!

 

OP did say he is playing "standard" irons and unless he bought them on here or WRX, they are almost guaranteed to be regular or stiff flex shafts. Assuming he is "average" in height and arm length, it's extremely unlikely that he is "totally misfit". He's also been taking lessons for 5 years so if his clubs were completely wrong, I would have expected even the most incompetent instructor to have at least mentioned that at one point or another.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

Buy new clubs at a place where you can try them first. 

Nothing will make you want to play more than spending money on yourself

Golf is simple - people are complicated.

5w Taylormade SLDR S 19* - 220yd, Ping G2 5-U - 190-105, Maltby M+ 54* & MG 60* - 95-75, Evnroll ER8, Titleist 816 H1 4h 21*, Maltby 4 Hybrid Iron 24* - 210-200, Callaway XR16 8* - 235 carry

886809507_image1(5).jpeg.56bc697c3b02b1fb00feb8d4b66389bc~2.jpeg

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