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A little background on my situation.

 

Back in July 2008 I started to play with the TaylorMade R7 Limited TP 9.5 with a Diamana Blueboard 73x and played great with it. If anything the ball began to balloon on me after a winter of non play in and around Jan 2010.

 

May-ish of 2010 I was asked to do a review on the UST Mamiya ATTAS 6x (http://forum.mygolfspy.com/index.php?showtopic=1567&view=getnewpost) and could not find the same R7 Limited TP so I stepped up to the R9 TP and found the shaft better than my R7 Limited TP with the Diamana. It was far more penetrating with a fantastic balance of carry and a ton of roll by comparison.

 

 

After spending a winter playing tournaments, I head up north for the summer season and I caved in both heads within a week and was out a driver. I was appreciative of TM swapping out the R9 with their updated R11but now it began a whole new set of issues.

 

 

I'm not a fan of the R11's looks or sound, but i can look past all of that if it is to perform. But the swap out of the UST Mamiya ATTAS 6x into the R11 has been terrible to be kind. I've missed over 90% of the fairways with it and am at the point of hitting 3w/3 irons off the tee. I am having my Diamana pulled and fitted into an R11 sleeve and am hoping that this will solve my issues.

My questions now become:

What change do you all think i can expect from the Diamana Blueboard when fitted with the R11 tip?

Has anyone else had shifts in shaft performance when moving the same shaft from the R9 to the R11?

I do know that the R9 (and R7 for that matter) had 3 ports vs the 2 on the R11 - given that I am matching the overall headweight as best as i can. I never would have thought that this big of a difference would've occurred.

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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If the ATTAS was that good in the R9 It should not be THAT bad in the R-11. I am not a TM player or but based on the visuals it would appear that the R-11 is more sleek/lower profile and may yield a different club length if simply pulled and placed in the new club head. I would check that first.

 

If you have specs of the club prior to the change have them compared, something may standout.

 

Secondly, I would expect the blue board to balloon again.

Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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If the ATTAS was that good in the R9 It should not be THAT bad in the R-11. I am not a TM player or but based on the visuals it would appear that the R-11 is more sleek/lower profile and may yield a different club length if simply pulled and placed in the new club head. I would check that first.

 

If you have specs of the club prior to the change have them compared, something may standout.

 

Secondly, I would expect the blue board to balloon again.

 

Appreciate the reply. The r9 was sent back but the playing length is the same. Nothing stands out and that is what is so very frustrating and confusing all at the same time.

 

Just received the blue board tonight will hit it tomorrow and report.

 

In the meanwhile, I played very nicely today with my pals accra xcmv m4 stiff shaft at 47" with a r7 superquad tp head with only 4 - 1g weights in it and hit some seriously long ballooning drives 339, 358, just stupid launches with waaaay too much spin. It just carried forever with the softer tip.

 

It's silly how extremely different shafts are in my game. I admittedly am a club fitting nightmare.

 

I fully believe that traditional clubfitting has to be thrown out of the window when it comes to fitting me. Who else hits drivers 47"+ better, straighter n longer than a 44-45"? It goes against traditional logic.

 

I'll keep.u all posted

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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Spin rates and launch angles are probably out of whack between the heads. A shaft that works in one head won't necessarily work it others. Sucks yes I know, but it happens.

 

The BB shouldn't play anything different in a tip than in a std glued head, if installed/tipped properly.

I have a revolving WITB policy.

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So was able to hit the range on my way to work in a slightly rushed super hot weather session - i tinkered with all both the mamiya, the diamana bb in the r11 and put them up against the accra axiv in the superquad.

 

after a bit of trial and error - the diamana with the r11 tip set with a 14g weight in the heel, a 1-g in the toe, added 1degree of loft and kept the face either neutral or closed i was able to hit some draws. the flight was lowish with little spin and a penetrating traj that never climbed. the issue was that i had to rip it to make it go straight. swinging all out with maximum force i was getting 60-70% out of the shaft.

 

then i would hit the accra and with considerably much less effort hit it higher farther and straighter than the diamana.

 

went back and forth and played with the mamiya and the same head config - now ive come to the conclusion why the mamiya doesnt play the same. this new r11 head needs more loft for me. for whatever reason, COG / Loft / face size the r9 head at 9.5* played effectively and considerably much higher than the r11 tp head thats 9*.

 

i think this case is closed, but i'll continue to test and update the situation as it goes. im thinking i need to find me either a higher lofted r11, an r9 tp, or an accra shaft

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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Take it to a launch monitor and have it adjusted by a certified fitting professional with all of the weights available. It's a really good head once you dial everything in.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Take it to a launch monitor and have it adjusted by a certified fitting professional with all of the weights available. It's a really good head once you dial everything in.

 

Rookieblue,

 

I'm not questioning if its a really good head, I'm just not sure its a good head for me. Also, I am a certified fitting professional, not that I believe that means anything as when you get to these type of numbers its kinda like playing in the wind in Scotland where you throw the yardage book out the window. Because of my build and action my specs don't make sense to anyone I've ever talked to in the industry. I'm pretty much on the extreme on the bell shaped curve.

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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But, fitting yourself is kind of tough(trust me, I made a ton of errors when I first started out on my own stuff, not that you're a newbie to it). What I'm trying to say is you can look at the numbers but it's kind of hard to see what te club is doing during the swing.. One idea to try though, if you haven't is swapping the weights out to different weights. I just changed mine to different weights and it got even better. The TLC weights from any model fit it too, if you already have some. There are so many things you can do, I find it difficult you can't get it dialed in. But, you might be one of the few that truly need one of the DOT heads. They're lower spin and the launch characteristics are a little different. That's always another option.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Have you compared numbers from the different heads/shafts on a launch monitor? To see such an extreme difference in results between heads you would almost have to see some significant differences in numbers, which should at least give you some good ideas on how to proceed.

Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g S
Adams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki S
Adams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie S
Mizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 S
SCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius S
STX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip

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But, fitting yourself is kind of tough(trust me, I made a ton of errors when I first started out on my own stuff, not that you're a newbie to it). What I'm trying to say is you can look at the numbers but it's kind of hard to see what te club is doing during the swing.. One idea to try though, if you haven't is swapping the weights out to different weights. I just changed mine to different weights and it got even better. The TLC weights from any model fit it too, if you already have some. There are so many things you can do, I find it difficult you can't get it dialed in. But, you might be one of the few that truly need one of the DOT heads. They're lower spin and the launch characteristics are a little different. That's always another option.

 

What is a DOT head?

 

 

Have you compared numbers from the different heads/shafts on a launch monitor? To see such an extreme difference in results between heads you would almost have to see some significant differences in numbers, which should at least give you some good ideas on how to proceed.

 

When one driver goes 310 and another 275 and another 359 and straight its pretty clear that those are the only numbers that matter. IMO Launch monitors have a use and that is as a TOOL and only as a tool for optimization. What i dont think i have clearly expressed here is the massive gaps i'm dealing with here between clubs. Point being i'm not even in the ball park to use a launch monitor yet -

 

using the r11 head with the 46" diamana BB and the 46" ATTAS, along with all the different combination of head weights (+/- 32g's worth), shaft rotations, loft angles, and sole plate mods, dont even compare to the 47" R7 Superquad w/the accra axiv shaft are not even on the same playing field.

 

I'm actively trying to coordinate some time with 2 separate friends who have launch monitors i can play with and pull down the data on these three for you all.

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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The DOT head is the tour issue R11 head that's lower launch and spin than retail.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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So an extremely interesting day today on the flightscope aunch monitors. I know you all are waiting with baited breath over this.

 

First good thing to note - the R7 Superquad #'s on the launch monitor were: 125mph clubhead (8 mph faster than ever) ball speed 175-179. Carry 305-310yards. Bad news the ball was spinning in the 4400 range. (I cant exactly remember the launch but it was like 10* ish)

 

Then i put in the R11 and alternated the diamana and the attas shafts - 110-115 mph clubhead speed, carry was a miserable 240-270 yards. inconsistency was all over the place. ball spin touched 6600 once but it was in the the 5000-6000 range the entire time, and i could not hit a single one on the map.

 

Then we did some experimenting. I took the diamana shaft and put it in a R9 SuperTri head. one which i particularly do not like. All of a sudden the ball speed was up, the carry was getting in the 295-305 range. albeit the launch angles were 8-9* (ver low) I thought it was very interesting.

 

Then i put the Attas in the R9 SuperTri. Just as good as the Diamana with very comparable stats, but slightly down a step.

 

THe big news was both shafts were fantastic, and alive just by switching the heads. Point of the story, just because you get a brand spanking new head, doesnt mean youve got a good one. I have concluded that the head TM sent me in the R11 TP is a dud. Its spinny, the center of gravity is way off, and its terrible. Very disappointing and disheartening.

 

Another lesson learned that you cannot discount the importance of clubfitting - the difference between clubs is 40-70 yards with me. Plus mind you the 240-260 yard shots were 50-60 yards off the center line!!! THe 305-330 yard shots were smack down the middle.

 

So moving forward the plan in the time being is to get extension's put on the diamana BB and the attas shafts to make them 47". Find a new head, prob an R9. And sell or swap out the r11 i have with the rep or whatever.

 

I had gotten some recommendations to get my tee shots out to the 380 yard range with an optimized shaft and it seems like we're gonna go with an M5 accra in the 75g range at 47". I cant wait to see what turns up.

 

Now btw - who here wouldve guessed it was the head instead of the shafts?cool.gifcool.gif

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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carry was a miserable 240-270 yards

 

:( that's my carry

so now I have an excuse to go buy a new head :D

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It makes sense to me given what you were saying that there was something different or defective about that head. It was one of very few variables it could have been. One just wouldn't expect such a huge difference one one specific head of several on a variety of shafts.

 

I seem to remember someone saying the launch monitor might give the info you needed to find the problem. :P

 

Glad you figured it out, I'm sure that would mess with me too. Makes one wonder how many times that happens to a golfer that goes and demos a head/shaft then buys a new driver and can't hit it for crap. Most probably would never figure that out and just accept that they couldn't hit their brand new $400 driver. You hear that all the time though, "I hit this thing GREAT before I bought it. . ."

Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g S
Adams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki S
Adams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie S
Mizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 S
SCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius S
STX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip

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It makes sense to me given what you were saying that there was something different or defective about that head. It was one of very few variables it could have been. One just wouldn't expect such a huge difference one one specific head of several on a variety of shafts.

 

I seem to remember someone saying the launch monitor might give the info you needed to find the problem. :P

 

Glad you figured it out, I'm sure that would mess with me too. Makes one wonder how many times that happens to a golfer that goes and demos a head/shaft then buys a new driver and can't hit it for crap. Most probably would never figure that out and just accept that they couldn't hit their brand new $400 driver. You hear that all the time though, "I hit this thing GREAT before I bought it. . ."

 

your absolutly right, its very upsetting. thank goodness i didnt pay anything for this head as what does a new R11 TP sell for? $500+? insane. now i got to figure out what to do with the head. Id hate to give it to anyone else. time to call the rep up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:cobra-small: Staffer

:Arccos: Staffer

 

www.gdxslab.com

www.MANAVIANGolf.com

 

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Understood - is DOT an acronym for something?

 

 

No, not sure why it's capitalized in every description I've ever seen. It's identified by a dot next to the loft, which I think is where DOT comes from.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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your absolutly right, its very upsetting. thank goodness i didnt pay anything for this head as what does a new R11 TP sell for? $500+? insane. now i got to figure out what to do with the head. Id hate to give it to anyone else. time to call the rep up.

 

 

Definitely swap it out and try it again before deciding anything drastic, like cutting ties. I'd have never thought you'd get a new dead head. But hey, learn something new every day. I've had the R9 460, SuperTri, and SuperDeep (SuperTri is with TMag right now for a crack in the head). And since you know a rep, see if he could finagle you a dot head. I still think it's be better for you than the OTR TP model. The lower spin looks like it'd be a huge benefit to you.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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