Golf Physics

[pozzit]

Alright this is a bit of an odd quest to understand the physics behind the game of golf. As an engineer I wanted started talking through some of the details with a friend and there were so many details that i could explain in a very general standpoint. This made me think of why this would matter and how would this information be useful and that sent me down a rabbit hole of club fitting and club design. 

I remember hearing things from Adam Young and others about how everything boils down to the conditions at impact (Club Speed, Strike Location, Angle of Attack etc.) So this is kind of where I'm starting and then trying to slowly build onto this information to develop the flight dynamics. Once that end I plan to start driving into the club shapes and technology. I have found a few interesting articles (linked below) but if anyone has more information or ideas to articles or books let me know. 

This may be completely a fools errand trying to simplify a incredible complex sport into actual mathematical formulas but I hope it helps me get a better understanding of the main variables and an ability to understand how club designs actually function. 

https://www.golf-simulators.com/physics.htm

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Randolph_Bailey/Web Project/index.htm

https://www.adamyounggolf.com/the-biggest-cause-of-an-offline-golf-shot/

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Having been an Engineer for some time I can appreciate the quest ahead of you. Once you get to the basics and you think you got it all there is just so much more involved.

The material of the club

Club design. 

Trampoline effect of the club face based on the club face material and thickness.

Lift on the ball due to different dimple patterns, compression, ball materials. 

It just goes on. Are you sure you want to go down this road? This could take a very long time.

[revkev]

This is great because I logged on to ask a question that one of you physician can guys can answer.

All things being equal if I swing a heavier club the same speed as a lighter one would the ball go farther?

Again assuming the same strike, AoA, etc.

Just curious.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[pozzit]

Having been an Engineer for some time I can appreciate the quest ahead of you. Once you get to the basics and you think you got it all there is just so much more involved.
The material of the club
Club design. 
Trampoline effect of the club face based on the club face material and thickness.
Lift on the ball due to different dimple patterns, compression, ball materials. 
It just goes on. Are you sure you want to go down this road? This could take a very long time.

Haha yes this is a nightmare of variables and minor adjustments. I'm going to try and step in piece by piece and if I get anywhere close to understanding the variations of dimple patterns I will have gotten much further I could imagine.

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[pozzit]

This is great because I logged on to ask a question that one of you physician can guys can answer.

All things being equal if I swing a heavier club the same speed as a lighter one would the ball go farther?

Again assuming the same strike, AoA, etc.

Just curious.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I could be mistaken but assuming all other factors equal more mass could in theory transfer more energy into the ball.

The key is getting the same speed out of the heavier weight. Thats why clubs tend to be going lighter to help keep speed up.

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[Tom the Golf Nut]

14 minutes ago, revkev said:

This is great because I logged on to ask a question that one of you physician can guys can answer.

All things being equal if I swing a heavier club the same speed as a lighter one would the ball go farther?

Again assuming the same strike, AoA, etc.

Just curious.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

With all things being equal in the swing, the club with the larger mass will transfer more energy to the ball. The more energy transfered the further the ball will travel. E = mc 2

In short the heavier club will hit the ball further.

[FrogginBullfish]

This is great because I logged on to ask a question that one of you physician can guys can answer.

 

All things being equal if I swing a heavier club the same speed as a lighter one would the ball go farther?

 

Again assuming the same strike, AoA, etc.

 

Just curious.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

It's an impulse momentum problem.

 

F∆t = ∆p

 

F is the force applied

∆t is the time that the force is applied for

∆p is the change in momentum

 

At the same club head speed, a heavier clubhead will transmit a larger force to the golf ball which will create a larger change in momentum so you will see more ball speed all things being equal from a heavier club head to a lighter club head.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

 

 

 

[revkev]

I’m so proud of myself that I figured out that the heavier weight means more energy! (My son was a Navy Nuke so I hear about this energy stuff all the time) I’ve actually learned something from listening to him.

Who’d have thunk it.

Thanks guys


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[FrogginBullfish]

Here is another great resource for your dive into the complex world of golf physics.

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/

Alright this is a bit of an odd quest to understand the physics behind the game of golf. As an engineer I wanted started talking through some of the details with a friend and there were so many details that i could explain in a very general standpoint. This made me think of why this would matter and how would this information be useful and that sent me down a rabbit hole of club fitting and club design. 
I remember hearing things from Adam Young and others about how everything boils down to the conditions at impact (Club Speed, Strike Location, Angle of Attack etc.) So this is kind of where I'm starting and then trying to slowly build onto this information to develop the flight dynamics. Once that end I plan to start driving into the club shapes and technology. I have found a few interesting articles (linked below) but if anyone has more information or ideas to articles or books let me know. 
This may be completely a fools errand trying to simplify a incredible complex sport into actual mathematical formulas but I hope it helps me get a better understanding of the main variables and an ability to understand how club designs actually function. 
https://www.golf-simulators.com/physics.htm
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Randolph_Bailey/Web Project/index.htm
https://www.adamyounggolf.com/the-biggest-cause-of-an-offline-golf-shot/

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[FrogginBullfish]

I should also add that any gains there are going to be relatively marginal. It'll really depend on how much weight is added, but in most situations we're talking about 5-10g which is going to produce maybe about a 1-2 mph gain in ball speed at the most.

I haven't done any of the math though, but I am relatively confident in saying it'll be a fairly small gain. Whether that's something someone wants to give up if they're just as efficient in swinging the heavier club, well that's up to them.

We have sort of seen some of this on tour with higher balance point shafts, which allow club builders to add weight to the club head while maintaining the swing weight of a lower balance point shaft with less weight. But it's been very marginal gains if any in ball speed. And how comparable the swing dynamics are between those two setups are, I don't know so it may not be a fair comparison.

I’m so proud of myself that I figured out that the heavier weight means more energy! (My son was a Navy Nuke so I hear about this energy stuff all the time) I’ve actually learned something from listening to him.

Who’d have thunk it.

Thanks guys


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[pozzit]

8 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Here is another great resource for your dive into the complex world of golf physics.

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

 

I found this site late last night and this is a goldmine of information i was up way too late reading this instead of actual sleep.

[pozzit]

13 hours ago, revkev said:

This is great because I logged on to ask a question that one of you physician can guys can answer.

All things being equal if I swing a heavier club the same speed as a lighter one would the ball go farther?

Again assuming the same strike, AoA, etc.

Just curious.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

So I found some basic equations on http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Randolph_Bailey/Web Project/Tiger.htm

This agrees with everyone who has posted that more mass would in theory generated more ball speed. I noticed with a 5% (10g) increase of a driver weight(200g) at a club head speed of 100mph got about 0.5mph increase. Since Mass is a factor or (Club mass)/(Club mass +Ball Mass)

This lead me to look at the impact of speed on this equation. If i use the same 200g driver head and increase the speed by 2%(2mph)  this gained 1.8mph.

If we decide to decrease weight by the same 5% and increase the speed by 2% this would generate a 0.62mph.

I'm not sure what actual speed sure what speed gains could be had form 5% weight reduction but this supports a lot of the club development to go slightly lighter to give people more speed. which is more impactful then weight alone.

 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

5 hours ago, pozzit said:

So I found some basic equations on http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Randolph_Bailey/Web Project/Tiger.htm

This agrees with everyone who has posted that more mass would in theory generated more ball speed. I noticed with a 5% (10g) increase of a driver weight(200g) at a club head speed of 100mph got about 0.5mph increase. Since Mass is a factor or (Club mass)/(Club mass +Ball Mass)

This lead me to look at the impact of speed on this equation. If i use the same 200g driver head and increase the speed by 2%(2mph)  this gained 1.8mph.

If we decide to decrease weight by the same 5% and increase the speed by 2% this would generate a 0.62mph.

I'm not sure what actual speed sure what speed gains could be had form 5% weight reduction but this supports a lot of the club development to go slightly lighter to give people more speed. which is more impactful then weight alone.

 

That's why all the manufacturers went to titanium faces and carbon fiber crowns and such. You can swing them faster. Now add some of those Ping turbulators to direct air flow and you have a race car LOL.