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How Do You Feel About What You Worked on After A Lesson With A Pro


How Do You Feel About What You Worked on After A Lesson With A Pro  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of These Best Describes How You Feel After A Lesson With Your Teaching Pro

    • I Feel Great-I am almost always able to grasp the concept he's showing me
      19
    • I have mixed feeling-I don't feel like I was able to grasp the concept he was showing me, but know I need more work on it
      7
    • I'm beginning to Wonder About My Pro-He isn't able to convey a drill or method for me to grasp what he's showing me
      2
    • I'm gonna give up, my pro is great, I'm just not capable of getting what he's saying
      2


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I had a bunch of lessons, 6-8 with one guy, another 6-8 with golftech, a while back.  I felt like I honestly was worse off for having done the lessons.  Then more recently I've had two lessons so far with a new guy, and I've made a lot of progress really fast.  I think a lot of people would just assume my new instructor is exceptional, and that may very well be the case.  However, I believe the difference has been my conceptual understanding of the golf swing.  When I tried lessons the first two times, I knew nothing about plane, face to path, bowing/cupping the lead wrist, face control, weight shift, etc.  I appreciate that instructors can teach you these things, but I think they often just assume you have a basic understanding, especially if you're an ok golfer.  I've spent covid practicing a lot, but also watching just about every video on youtube.  The first two times I took lessons I'd never heard about shallowing the club.  If the instructor had referenced it, it would have been over my head.  

From all the practice, I had three personal best scores in the last four times I've been out golfing.  Despite the improvement, I decided to get a lesson because there were things I couldn't figure out, and looking at my golf swing when I video'd myself, I could tell there were issues like losing height in the backswing, and sucking the club inside, that I just couldn't figure out on my own.  After my most recent lesson, I just focused on the position at the top that my instructor had showed me.  When I got home and worked on it, I struggled at first.  Then I realized that while focusing on plane, I was letting my forearms roll a little.  Once I got that sorted, I started pureing it.

So long story short, I think beginners really could use more golf theory during lessons.  In those first lessons I remember the instructor just trying to beat a more outside takeaway into me in order to get me to come from the inside, but I really didn't understand what I was doing wrong or how a path change could help.

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On 9/9/2020 at 11:39 PM, Chip Strokes said:

having coached various different sports professionally and semi-professionally, the biggest piece of advice i can offer is that your lesson should feel like a long conversation broken up by occasional golf swings.

This is so spot on, and i just experienced it. 
 

After getting frustrated with the past 6 lessons i had taken at GT, i reached out to a local instructor at a private CC that i had met previously and subsequently heard two  players at our course have great results with. 
I reached out and had a lesson this week with him.   
It was exactly as you described. He would show me something he wanted me to change, he’d explain it, tell me why and demonstrate what it should look like.  Then had me take a few slow motion moves with it, a few practice swings and then hit a shot or two followed by a review of it on tape.   Then repeat. 
During this entire time, he would casually change the conversation to give my mind and probably body a break. 
He’d ask about my irons, what led me to those. 
He’d ask about fittings i had. 

We focused on two things that lesson. My swing plane, which i was able to change right away he said.   
The more involved was a proper release, i had an extremely early release.  So we worked on getting that to a mote proper release. 
I had some success  certainly not as immediate and consistent as my path.  But the times I was able to release properly, I went from hitting a very high Fade 100 yard PW to a 120 Yard drawing PW with a slightly lower trajectory.  Boy, what a different feeling.

One of the most productive hours i have spent in golf in a long time.

 

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21 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

This is so spot on, and i just experienced it. 
 

After getting frustrated with the past 6 lessons i had taken at GT, i reached out to a local instructor at a private CC that i had met previously and subsequently heard two  players at our course have great results with. 
I reached out and had a lesson this week with him.   
It was exactly as you described. He would show me something he wanted me to change, he’d explain it, tell me why and demonstrate what it should look like.  Then had me take a few slow motion moves with it, a few practice swings and then hit a shot or two followed by a review of it on tape.   Then repeat. 
During this entire time, he would casually change the conversation to give my mind and probably body a break. 
He’d ask about my irons, what led me to those. 
He’d ask about fittings i had. 

We focused on two things that lesson. My swing plane, which i was able to change right away he said.   
The more involved was a proper release, i had an extremely early release.  So we worked on getting that to a mote proper release. 
I had some success  certainly not as immediate and consistent as my path.  But the times I was able to release properly, I went from hitting a very high Fade 100 yard PW to a 120 Yard drawing PW with a slightly lower trajectory.  Boy, what a different feeling.

One of the most productive hours i have spent in golf in a long time.

 

that’s  awesome @Golfspy_CG2!! it’s amazing what a difference it makes when you vibe well with a coach. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

bringing this thread back to life after 2 months because it’s really amazing how good a lesson can make you feel

one of the issues i deal with in my irons is delivering too much loft when i swing at speed. i tend to kind of flip through the ball, and that sends my ball height into orbit. 

today, i was working with my coach on getting that dynamic loft down. he went through a few cues, and things were moving in the right direction, then he turned off the projector screen and the computer monitor.

he pointed to a spot on the now white screen and said “ok, now hit the ball below this spot....ok now below this spot...now this spot.”

wash, rinse, repeat for about 10 shots, and then he turned the screens back on

the result? the dynamic loft on my 7i came WAYYYY down. 

before that drill, i was bringing the club in at about 45* and losing 20-30 yards of carry 

those 10 shots went 34*, 31*, 29*, and then 6 in a row between 26-27*  

carry came back up to 196-198 and everything was struck flush  

he recognized early in us working together that too many cues on what to do with my body just gets me crossed up, so now we work from shot result backwards.  

 

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On 10/17/2020 at 11:00 PM, bonvivantva said:

However, I believe the difference has been my conceptual understanding of the golf swing.  When I tried lessons the first two times, I knew nothing ... (etc.)

Nailed it! The student has to be ready to take a lesson.

I took a bunch of lessons early on when I started golfing - and glad I did - but no question a lot of what the instructors were attempting to convey to me got lost.......

Then I went through a longish period of no in-person lessons, trying to work out things on my own. Not so glad I did that - very little, very mediocre progression all that time.

Now I'm committed to a series of lessons (at a GolfTec center; for me it seems to be working out so far) where we're effectively rebuilding my entire swing - piece by piece - and now I'm a reasonably knowledgeable (and very willing, of course!) participant so I can better comprehend each instruction.

That said... I do seem to be a bit of a slow golf learner, so I'm lucky to have a very patient instructor who will repeat verbally and on-screen everything he's trying to get me to do. 

Which I guess guess back to CG2's original question.. for me, I have to work work work and think about visualize cogitate on consider and drill drill drill practice practice practice each and every particular piece of the puzzle until it starts to slowly seep into my thick (thickening more with age 🤪) head.

But we are getting somewhere.

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Have always gotten something valuable from golf lessons and try to do a few every year.    Answered 1 from top in survey as typically think the lesson is mixed but then realize it is me that was missing the point.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know a lot of golfers. A lot. But I only know one person who's ever gone from what I would call a poor player to a very good one because of lessons.

I'm a firm believer that unless you get very good instruction from when you began playing, you aren't going to get much better than you are after playing a few years. You might be able to tweak a few things, but once the muscle memory kicks in, your swing is your swing.

Old habits are hard to break, especially in golf.

Edited by Grand Stranded

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/29/2020 at 11:00 AM, Gambyt said:

 

This is a really interesting thread, and I think that Chisag hits the nail on the head about an "onion" and layers.

I am very new to golf - I only started with my wife at the tail end of June, but we have been out between 4-5 times per week (for 9 holes).  I would be what I assume people would call a high handicapper.  

My wife and I purchased a package of lessons from the local pro, but I found it incredibly frustrating.  Full disclosure - I actually found this thread while I was surfing the internet trying to find  recommendations for a good online coaching site (top speed golf and rotary swing keep coming up...).

The difficulty I had with the instruction was, "keep the left arm straight, imagine you have a towel under your right armpit to keep that arm in, shift your weight, but don't move your hips or your head, transfer you weight using your hips and bring the club through with your wrists, and imagine there is something under your left toe to keep the weight forward, and follow through with your body to face the target."

In the next breath, it was, "don't think about it and let the club do the work".  

So I'm trying to think about everything - and nothing - all at the same time.  Which means that I am skulling some shots, chunking others, slicing many of them, outright missing the GD ball on some occasions and then, once in a glorious while, connecting and hitting the ball like I should be playing in the pros (please note that I have not one shred of evidence to support this claim).

So, ultimately, my response to the survey would be somewhere between 2 and 3.  I'm not ready to give up, although the though has crossed my mind...  And I have admittedly walked a couple of holes while my wife golfed without touching a club to regain some composure (and self confidence) before resuming.

All that said, any suggestions on online training would be appreciated!

 

I have to preface this by saying I am NOT an instructor and in 25 years of golf I could count on my hands the number of lessons I've taken. Quick background, I'm a lefty and came from baseball, I swing hard and until 5 or so years ago my swing was very long (back and shoulders). My first lesson ever was about a year after I started playing and I had the same experience you describe. I was trying to figure out putting the clubface on the ball and the pro was talking about "feels" that were WAY beyond my knowledge. I had a 3 lesson package with him given to me as a gift, I never went back for the last two...

Fast forward 20 years and I play sporadically, some years 50 rounds, some years 5 (kids, job, blah blah blah...) but I can hold my own against my buddies on our annual trip. Typically in the low 80s. I'd been a solid 10 index since 2002, no matter how much I played or practiced, it just was my game. I was beating balls on the range in late 2019 preparing for the annual trip and the pro at my home course, who is a family friend, wanders over and starts chatting. In 5 minutes of looking and one video taken he changed my thought process and my game. I'm now a 5.9 and trending down at 46 years old with the same job and same kids and wife 🙂

All of this is a long way of saying that finding a pro who speaks your language is the most critical part of the process. If you are 6 months into the game and lack the understanding of proper grip, setup/alignment and rotation, every single item you listed is worthless to you. Find a better pro who will teach you the fundamentals, find out if any local courses host "range time with the pro" group lessons or something similar. "Golf with Aimee" is, in my view, a great YouTube channel where she explains concepts in language anyone can understand. Don't give up on the game, the frustration only increases the reward when you pure one!

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On 11/23/2020 at 9:21 PM, Grand Stranded said:

I know a lot of golfers. A lot. But I only know one person who's ever gone from what I would call a poor player to a very good one because of lessons.

I'm a firm believer that unless you get very good instruction from when you began playing, you aren't going to get much better than you are after playing a few years. You might be able to tweak a few things, but once the muscle memory kicks in, your swing is your swing.

Old habits are hard to break, especially in golf.

I get what you are saying, but I think its possible. I am an interesting case to see if i can make it over the hump and eventually become a decent player. I have only been playing regularly for a little bit over a year, but initially learned how to swing when I was a kid. But because I only played like 15 rounds in my life before last year, I don't really count that. 

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On 11/24/2020 at 12:21 AM, Grand Stranded said:

I'm a firm believer that unless you get very good instruction from when you began playing, you aren't going to get much better than you are after playing a few years. You might be able to tweak a few things, but once the muscle memory kicks in, your swing is your swing.

Disagree. Just like it took time for the current swing mechanics a person has to take hold the same applies for making a change. It may take some longer than others to make the change complete but over the course of 1-2 years give or take a person can change their swing. The problem is too many including myself at one point wanted the changes to be done in a short period of time and once they get comfortable with the results the practice of the changes goes away and little by little the old mechanics creep in.

Gankas talks about this in his course and how one can still play while making changes. I think it was mentioned in this thread earlier that one has to turn the brain off on the course which is what Gankas talks about and let the swing work take place in the practice range and the more reps a person puts in the more the new moves will become natural. In the beginning of the program he talks about the amount of time it will take to make the change and that those looking for the quick fix can do that but the program will be beneficial to the ones who commit to the long term change.

While not the best example Tiger changed his swing or aspects of his swing and we all got to see the process play out and that it was 18-24 months before his new swing was at a point of being his swing.

Brandon Todd changed his mechanics and went from 2000 in the world to two tour wins the last couple years and way up in the rankings

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On 11/23/2020 at 11:21 PM, Grand Stranded said:

I know a lot of golfers. A lot. But I only know one person who's ever gone from what I would call a poor player to a very good one because of lessons.

I'm a firm believer that unless you get very good instruction from when you began playing, you aren't going to get much better than you are after playing a few years. You might be able to tweak a few things, but once the muscle memory kicks in, your swing is your swing.

Old habits are hard to break, especially in golf.

 

... There is always room to improve and it depends on your dedication and desire to improve. I agree that for most golfers your swing is your swing and you aren't gonna go from a Zach Johnson move to a John Daley move, but you can do more than just tweak. To the player, little adjustments can seem like huge swing changes and for them, they are. But something like taking the club back too far inside and then coming over the top with the downswing can be corrected. The swing itself will still be very similar looking to the untrained eye, but the difference in contact and ball flight can be dramatic. It may feel like a major change to the player, but the swing itself can remain almost identical other than not rolling their wrists on the backswing. These kinds of changes can be accomplished with a good instructor because once you get past the initial change, the swing itself is still basically the same so it can become a permanent change. Changes like these can drop your index by quite a few strokes while keeping your swing.

... Of course there are even more improvements possible in the short game and again, very small changes like weight, ball and shaft positions at address but keeping the same style of pitch or chip will feel very different to the player but are very small changes and can be accomplished with improved results. By addressing the ball with more weight on your front foot with a forward shaft and body lean, it is almost impossible to flip or lift, a common mistake in chipping. I  had students improve in a single lesson because their concept of what they were trying to do was incorrect and just a mental change of approach was enough for the light bulb to go on. 

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53 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... There is always room to improve and it depends on your dedication and desire to improve. I agree that for most golfers your swing is your swing and you aren't gonna go from a Zach Johnson move to a John Daley move, but you can do more than just tweak. To the player, little adjustments can seem like huge swing changes and for them, they are. But something like taking the club back too far inside and then coming over the top with the downswing can be corrected. The swing itself will still be very similar looking to the untrained eye, but the difference in contact and ball flight can be dramatic. It may feel like a major change to the player, but the swing itself can remain almost identical other than not rolling their wrists on the backswing. These kinds of changes can be accomplished with a good instructor because once you get past the initial change, the swing itself is still basically the same so it can become a permanent change. Changes like these can drop your index by quite a few strokes while keeping your swing.

... Of course there are even more improvements possible in the short game and again, very small changes like weight, ball and shaft positions at address but keeping the same style of pitch or chip will feel very different to the player but are very small changes and can be accomplished with improved results. By addressing the ball with more weight on your front foot with a forward shaft and body lean, it is almost impossible to flip or lift, a common mistake in chipping. I  had students improve in a single lesson because their concept of what they were trying to do was incorrect and just a mental change of approach was enough for the light bulb to go on. 

I agree with everything you and @RickyBobbysaid. Of course, it can be done, I've just never seen it except for one person.

I think I erred in using the word "tweak" because I'm constantly working on things that you mentioned, like the short game, which isn't a tweak, and various positions (for lack of a better word) or moves in my swing, which I think are.

In just the last few weeks alone, I've changed my takeaway, and greatly improved my lead wrist (flat) and trail elbow (straight down) position at the top of my backswing. I call these tweaks, but to me they're a part of my search to always build a better swing.

Trust me, I'm always striving to get better. You and I talked about athletic backgrounds about a week ago. I've never in my life not worked to get better in any sport I played, golf is no different. 

In the instance rickybobby was talking about, I don't think many older players are going to dedicate 1-2 years on a swing change. They might say they would, but in real life I don't think many would actually put in the effort. I could see a young guy with a lot of drive to get better having a chance to pull it off, but I'd still guess it's not something that happens often.

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On 9/9/2020 at 11:26 PM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Thanks for posting this.  I’m tsking lessons now.  We are on our third lesson in trying to keep me from swaying off the ball (away from it) and get my weight moving toward the target. 

I’m so frustrated right now, i dont know what to do.  Keep at it, look for a new instructor or just bsg it and play the way i have for 30 years.   
 

The move hes trying to get me to make feels so unnatural—-which i guess it is to me 😒.  I mentioned this is my first post, i feel part of it should be on him to come up with a drill that works for me   He keeps showing/telling me the same thing and its just not happening  

 

The Steve Dresser School at True Blue down here is excellent. They teach a method called "from the ground up" he has a young instructor named Stuart Clark there, who is excellent. 

They have a video on youtube where he swings a 5 foot PVC pipe (very slowly, lol) to show you the proper way to swing/shift weight. I wish I knew how to imbed a video, I'd send you one of him and I doing it. It probably helped me more than 5 lessons would have to understand what to do....

Try to google it, I'll bet it will help you a lot with what you're working on....

EDIT

GOOGLE STEVE DRESSER GOLF ON YOUTUBE. You should see a list of videos. The one I'm referring to is called "understanding swing plane" He shows you 4 positions with the PVC pipe. Very simple to do, and the third one is what you're looking to do, I think.

Edited by Grand Stranded

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Hybrids:      :ping-small: G425 Max 22* & 26*

Irons:           :callaway-small: Apex DCB 6-AW

Wedges:      :callaway-small: Jaws Raw Face 54-10

                      :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 58-6

Putter:         :EVNROLL:  ER7  34”

                      

                      

 

 

             

             

 

 

 

 

 

              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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On 11/24/2020 at 12:21 AM, Grand Stranded said:

I know a lot of golfers. A lot. But I only know one person who's ever gone from what I would call a poor player to a very good one because of lessons.

I'm a firm believer that unless you get very good instruction from when you began playing, you aren't going to get much better than you are after playing a few years. You might be able to tweak a few things, but once the muscle memory kicks in, your swing is your swing.

Old habits are hard to break, especially in golf.

I cannot speak for the golfers you know, but I played my first 9 holes in 1978 @ 19yrs old. I shot a 79 using borrowed clubs, but was hooked for life. Went out and purchased a Driver, 3 or 4 Wood, Putter and 3,5,7 and 9 irons. In 42 yrs, I have taken a total of 5 lessons which helped a lot and they were taken within the last 10 years. During my 42 yrs of playing golf, I have read, researched and watched anything I could to learn about the golf swing. I don't have a great golf swing, but I know a lot about getting the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible. Currently, my H/C is 6.3 and I enjoy every round I get to play. I have no doubt that lessons early on could have helped me achieve a better swing and possibly a lower H/C, but that was not an option especially in my 20's and 30's. At 63, I have a few old habits, the main one being stubborn.

Driver: :titelist-small: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff

Wedges: :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts

Wedge: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5        
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1x

 

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39 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

 

Thanks for finding and posting it!!! . I just edited my earlier post to help people find it, but you already did, LOL. I really, really need to learn how to imbed videos...

Trust me. Work this drill. It's not as easy as it looks to keep your lead wrist flat and get the pipe on plane in the backswing as it looks, but once you can do it, it's basically just a turn through. and... viola! you have your golf swing!!! (Think turning your sternum to the target) You'll be amazed at the ball flight you get. 

Start with a slow turn through then go faster as you get comfortable with the move. The key is to not have the pipe hit your front side after impact and into your follow through.

This kid showed me how he can hit a 9 iron from 120 to 175 just by changing the speed of his turn. Because he keeps his arms out of it, to the naked eye it looks like the same swing. It's amazing to see.

Edited by Grand Stranded

Driver:          :ping-small: G425 Max 10.5*

Fairway:      :ping-small: G425 Max 14*5* & 17.5*

Hybrids:      :ping-small: G425 Max 22* & 26*

Irons:           :callaway-small: Apex DCB 6-AW

Wedges:      :callaway-small: Jaws Raw Face 54-10

                      :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 58-6

Putter:         :EVNROLL:  ER7  34”

                      

                      

 

 

             

             

 

 

 

 

 

              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Grand Stranded said:

how to imbed videos...

Three simple steps...

  1. on the video look for the "Share" link and touch/click on it ..
  2. "Copy" ..
  3. go back into the MGS post editor and "Paste".

Fyi .. note the editor gives you an extra option to display as a text link instead.

Screenshot_20201207-210821_YouTube.jpg.3e5935081f324a2b4c3f000a2566e855.jpg

 

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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So speaking of swing changes...

Whether we term it "change" or "tweak" or "adjustment" or whatever else ... I've been learning practicing rehearsing new things I've been shown in a series of lessons stretched out over the past year, and which will be continuing into the new year...

My swing - and concomitant ball striking capabilities - are evolving and .. happy to say .. improving!

But, as I alluded to, for me to see improvement I really have to work work work at it and practice practice practice.

I'd even say it took me several years of playing golf to get the point where I could well understand the What of everything the instructor is trying to hammer into my thick skull (heck I even make him repeat lessons sometimes!).

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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2 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

Thanks for finding and posting it!!! . I just edited my earlier post to help people find it, but you already did, LOL. I really, really need to learn how to imbed videos...

Trust me. Work this drill. It's not as easy as it looks to keep your lead wrist flat and get the pipe on plane in the backswing as it looks, but once you can do it, it's basically just a turn through. and... viola! you have your golf swing!!! (Think turning your sternum to the target) You'll be amazed at the ball flight you get. 

Start with a slow turn through then go faster as you get comfortable with the move. The key is to not have the pipe hit your front side after impact and into your follow through.

This kid showed me how he can hit a 9 iron from 120 to 175 just by changing the speed of his turn. Because he keeps his arms out of it, to the naked eye it looks like the same swing. It's amazing to see.

Standard equipment for the Moe Norman single plane swing; I used the PVC pipe for years and it is probably the best swing aid I have used to learn to hit the ball straight.  Now I just have to learn how to speed it up.  I can change the speed of my turn and hit a 9i from 120 to 130.   🤣

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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On 10/18/2020 at 12:36 PM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

This is so spot on, and i just experienced it. 
 

After getting frustrated with the past 6 lessons i had taken at GT, i reached out to a local instructor at a private CC that i had met previously and subsequently heard two  players at our course have great results with. 
I reached out and had a lesson this week with him.   
It was exactly as you described. He would show me something he wanted me to change, he’d explain it, tell me why and demonstrate what it should look like.  Then had me take a few slow motion moves with it, a few practice swings and then hit a shot or two followed by a review of it on tape.   Then repeat. 
During this entire time, he would casually change the conversation to give my mind and probably body a break. 
He’d ask about my irons, what led me to those. 
He’d ask about fittings i had. 

We focused on two things that lesson. My swing plane, which i was able to change right away he said.   
The more involved was a proper release, i had an extremely early release.  So we worked on getting that to a mote proper release. 
I had some success  certainly not as immediate and consistent as my path.  But the times I was able to release properly, I went from hitting a very high Fade 100 yard PW to a 120 Yard drawing PW with a slightly lower trajectory.  Boy, what a different feeling.

One of the most productive hours i have spent in golf in a long time.

 

Basic teaching philosophy for any instruction...

Tell me, and I will forget.
Show me, and I might remember.
Involve me, and I will understand.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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15 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Standard equipment for the Moe Norman single plane swing; I used the PVC pipe for years and it is probably the best swing aid I have used to learn to hit the ball straight.  Now I just have to learn how two speed it up.  I can change the speed of my turn and hit a 9i from 120 to 130.   🤣

Yeah, that kind of turn would be nice wouldn't it? That's interesting what you said about Moe Norman. Is this a one plane swing Stuart is teaching here Kenny? 

You used the pipe to hit a ball straight, and I never really could hit a draw until I started to "get" this movement down. Go figure...

This video/drill is my go to. Whenever I feel like the train is coming off the tracks, I break out my "pipe". I finally have a blueprint for what I want my swing to be. Before this, I was just an old baseball player trying to make sense of snippets from magazines, videos and bargain rate instructors.

Edited by Grand Stranded

Driver:          :ping-small: G425 Max 10.5*

Fairway:      :ping-small: G425 Max 14*5* & 17.5*

Hybrids:      :ping-small: G425 Max 22* & 26*

Irons:           :callaway-small: Apex DCB 6-AW

Wedges:      :callaway-small: Jaws Raw Face 54-10

                      :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 58-6

Putter:         :EVNROLL:  ER7  34”

                      

                      

 

 

             

             

 

 

 

 

 

              

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Grand Stranded said:

Yeah, that kind of turn would be nice wouldn't it? That's interesting what you said about Moe Norman. Is this a one plane swing Stuart is teaching here Kenny? 

You used the pipe to hit a ball straight, and I never really could hit a draw until I started to "get" this movement down. Go figure...

This video/drill is my go to. Whenever I feel like the train is coming off the tracks, I break out my "pipe". I finally have a blueprint for what I want my swing to be. Before this, I was just an old baseball player trying to make sense of snippets from magazines, videos and bargain rate instructors.

It is not the single plane swing of Moe Norman as taught by Todd Graves.  Stuart has the classic hands below the shoulders at address, whereas Graves emulates Moe's swing by gripping the PVC with outstretched arms such that the pipe runs straight up the lead arm touching the rib cage.  The PVC stays connected to the rib cage during the start of the backswing until the wrists hinge.  The PVC comes down on the exact same plane as the backswing, as does Stuart's.  The difference is in the setup and takeaway.

However, the PVC is a very good aid to show the relationship of the club in the different parts of the swing.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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13 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

 

Phil’s coach uses a 5’ pvc pipe swing drill as well, except he has the student grip the pipe near the end and take a full swing.  He was on Chris Como’s swing expedition several months back and demonstrated it.

I’ve seen numerous instructors use variations of this drill. Meandmygolf have and alignment rod drill that you can either hold the rod or stick it in your club and have it touching your lead side as you rotate them when you hinge have it run down the lead leg.

GG and others use the alignment stick in a similar fashion to this drill.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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... Tweaking, changing or revamping your swing is an admirable goal. That said, I would warn that it is very difficult to accomplish without professional help. The reason I say that is what we think we are doing and what we are actually doing are almost always 2 different things. For example, one of the drills I did for golfers that had too long of a backswing, and there are a myriad of reasons why it was usually a flaw for any given individual, but it was an eye opener for most students. I would stand in front of them and have them take a normal backswing while I held my driver over their front shoulder so their shaft could rest on the grip of my driver when it was parallel at the top of their backswing. We would do this in slow motion so they could feel when their backswing was parallel when it touched my club. Many would say it feels like a half swing or a pitch instead of a foul swing. Then I would have them take several full swings with their normal backswing, then I would ask them to stop just short of parallel with several more practice swings. Then I would hold my shaft at the parallel point and ask them to take a full swing and hit a shot but again stop just short of parallel. 

... Without fail they would hit my shaft so hard it almost came out of my hands. They were stunned because to them it felt much shorter, when in reality it was barely any shorter at all. And this is the problem with changing your swing on your own. Because again, what we feel and what we are really doing are almost always two different things. My guess is that this is even true for Tiger making a swing change so it is true for al of us. One of the things I miss about teaching was I would show drills to students and quite often I would find I needed a refresher myself and the drill would help me too because things can get slightly out of position/sync through time and it is so gradual we are unaware of our mistakes until they are painfully obvious. 

... I am not saying it is pointless to attempt to make a change or tweak our swing on our own without a qualified instructor, especially if we get the feedback of improved ball flight and/or better contact. Just be aware that changes need to be exaggerated to truly make a change and video can help verify what we are trying to change. This does not apply to simple tweaks like moving the ball position, starting with a forward shaft lean, hitting down and through a chip or any obvious visual change we can see, but attempting produce a different swing is usually futile without professional help. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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17 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

The Steve Dresser School at True Blue down here is excellent. They teach a method called "from the ground up" he has a young instructor named Stuart Clark there, who is excellent. 

They have a video on youtube where he swings a 5 foot PVC pipe (very slowly, lol) to show you the proper way to swing/shift weight. I wish I knew how to imbed a video, I'd send you one of him and I doing it. It probably helped me more than 5 lessons would have to understand what to do....

Try to google it, I'll bet it will help you a lot with what you're working on....

EDIT

GOOGLE STEVE DRESSER GOLF ON YOUTUBE. You should see a list of videos. The one I'm referring to is called "understanding swing plane" He shows you 4 positions with the PVC pipe. Very simple to do, and the third one is what you're looking to do, I think.

 

14 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

 

 Thank you both, I'll take a look.

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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21 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... There is always room to improve and it depends on your dedication and desire to improve. I agree that for most golfers your swing is your swing and you aren't gonna go from a Zach Johnson move to a John Daley move, but you can do more than just tweak. To the player, little adjustments can seem like huge swing changes and for them, they are. But something like taking the club back too far inside and then coming over the top with the downswing can be corrected. The swing itself will still be very similar looking to the untrained eye, but the difference in contact and ball flight can be dramatic. It may feel like a major change to the player, but the swing itself can remain almost identical other than not rolling their wrists on the backswing. These kinds of changes can be accomplished with a good instructor because once you get past the initial change, the swing itself is still basically the same so it can become a permanent change. Changes like these can drop your index by quite a few strokes while keeping your swing.

... Of course there are even more improvements possible in the short game and again, very small changes like weight, ball and shaft positions at address but keeping the same style of pitch or chip will feel very different to the player but are very small changes and can be accomplished with improved results. By addressing the ball with more weight on your front foot with a forward shaft and body lean, it is almost impossible to flip or lift, a common mistake in chipping. I  had students improve in a single lesson because their concept of what they were trying to do was incorrect and just a mental change of approach was enough for the light bulb to go on. 

@chisag- things brings up a good point about your swing is your swing, as it relates to fittings. Assuming you can hit the ball decently, but are a high handicapper working on swing changes, and you are able to come in less over the top and make better contact. do you think that will drastically change the player's fitting or will that player still fit pretty well into the same equipment?

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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9 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

@chisag- things brings up a good point about your swing is your swing, as it relates to fittings. Assuming you can hit the ball decently, but are a high handicapper working on swing changes, and you are able to come in less over the top and make better contact. do you think that will drastically change the player's fitting or will that player still fit pretty well into the same equipment?

 

... After a good fitting it takes quite a bit of change to have those specs not work for you. Obviously if you are fit into say ... a closed face-draw bias driver, and start coming in with an inside move you may begin to hit a big draw but that is a pretty rare example and more likely your slice/fade will turn into a fade/straight ball. But usually your swing speed, tempo and swing characteristics as it pertains to your club specs won't change very much, if at all. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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13 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... After a good fitting it takes quite a bit of change to have those specs not work for you. Obviously if you are fit into say ... a closed face-draw bias driver, and start coming in with an inside move you may begin to hit a big draw but that is a pretty rare example and more likely your slice/fade will turn into a fade/straight ball. But usually your swing speed, tempo and swing characteristics as it pertains to your club specs won't change very much, if at all. 

That makes logical sense to me. I think some of us on the forum have this idea that if we improve our swing, our current equipment will all of a sudden stop working (maybe not that dramatic, but you get the idea).

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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2 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

That makes logical sense to me. I think some of us on the forum have this idea that if we improve our swing, our current equipment will all of a sudden stop working (maybe not that dramatic, but you get the idea).

That's probably true.  From what I've read on the forum, if some of us have a few bad rounds in a row, we think that our current equipment has all of a sudden stopped working.  😆

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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3 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

That's probably true.  From what I've read on the forum, if some of us have a few bad rounds in a row, we think that our current equipment has all of a sudden stopped working.  😆

...and ^THIS^ is why those misbehaving clubs need to be replaced!
(c'mon amiright @dlow206 😉)

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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