Most forgiving players or players distance irons?

[revkev]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2020 at 11:37 AM, Hook DeLoft said:

I know players irons aren't designed to be forgiving, but I would still like to hear people's opinions on the topic.  Especially interested in the manner in which you found them to be forgiving (thin shots, sole interaction, toe shots, heel shots, etc).  I've looked at the official MGS rankings but would really like to hear about your personal experience.

Getting back to the OPs question - we have three tests going on right now (at least) that should answer your question.  These are the Titleist iron test (really about wrapped up), the Sub 70 Player's Distance iron test and the Wilson D7 forged test.

 

Take a look at those and you will get a dozen or so informed person experience reports on the Player's Distance category.  You should also being able to discern which one of those players has a similar swing profile to yours and ask questions of the group.

 

I hope this helps

 

As an edit I certainly agree with what Chisag has written.  It in no way contradicts Braincramps rejoinder - there are always exceptions and beyond a doubt being able to practice and play more golf should be the single greatest factor in improvement.  I can't wait to be 68 - Lord willing - the way my pension works August of 67 is the magic year for me - I can't imagine full retirement but scaling back around then sounds appealing - especially if work continues as hard as it has been since COVID has hit.

[Sluggo42]

Hogan Combo set, to straight up PtxPro's are awesome too, that review is still going on. Not Distance irons though... smaller with some tech.

Most all the new clubs are fan-freaking-tastic right now...

[Golfspy_CG2]

9 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

Hogan Combo set, to straight up PtxPro's are awesome too, that review is still going on. Not Distance irons though... smaller with some tech.

Most all the new clubs are fan-freaking-tastic right now...

I was gong t mention that one as well Sluggo, but you beat me to it.   Those are some beautiful irons! 

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

Late to this party. I think the critical line in the thread I have read is @chisag " take advantage of forgiveness inherent in todays club head designs because forgiveness does not mask a bad swing". What works best for you is the key.

I have never played nor hit a MB, have always played CB. While I am interested in giving them a whirl, now that I am paying attention to club head size and thought process standing over a small face, thin top line club worries me and not sure I would be able to hit them well. Golf if is a game of feel (for me anyway) and that initial thought process standing over the ball is key for me, not sure if I would get that warm fuzzy with a knife in my hand.

[fixyurdivot]

On 9/11/2020 at 7:57 AM, NRJyzr said:

If youre looking for pure forgiveness, I would sift thru the GolfWorks MPF data.  Not for the final score, but the MOI data.  The MOI youll see in MPF is the actual measurement of the resistance to twisting on off center hits, which is the purpose behind perimeter weighting.  

It can also be enlightening.  

Doesn't hurt to also look at CG location.  Overgeneralizing, sweepers might like lower CG, steeper players might like higher CG, heel miss players might like shorter C-dimension, and so on.

I'm a bit of a data nerd, so it appeals to me for these sorts of questions.  <shrug>

You and @cnosilnail it and what you are both bringing up is what makes the "get a competent fitting" so important.  When I think back to my 1986 "fitting" for my PE2's as compared to the two fittings I had last year, wow. The ability to see the often subtle attributes of a players swing and club/ball interaction, combined with the ability to test multiple head/shaft combinations, has moved club fitting an order of magnitude.  

In answer to the OP's question, it's nearly impossible to know whether a particular category club will fit ones swing...without a fitting. The technology is available - we're ourselves a disservice not using it.  I'm squarely in this boat right now... thinking the G410's are not my optimum (and in my mind thinking a PD category is where I should be), partially because I don't feel the fitter was top notch and also had limited head/shaft options. It's why I have decided to do a full bag fitting this winter at True Spec (considered a top notch fitting company).  Perhaps I'll be surprised by the results, perhaps not.  But, I'll leave without thinking I'll left something on the table.

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

You and @cnosilnail it and what you are both bringing up is what makes the "get a competent fitting" so important.  When I think back to my 1986 "fitting" for my PE2's as compared to the two fittings I had last year, wow. The ability to see the often subtle attributes of a players swing and club/ball interaction, combined with the ability to test multiple head/shaft combinations, has moved club fitting an order of magnitude.  

In answer to the OP's question, it's nearly impossible to know whether a particular category club will fit ones swing...without a fitting. The technology is available - we're ourselves a disservice not using it.  I'm squarely in this boat right now... thinking the G410's are not my optimum (and in my mind thinking a PD category is where I should be), partially because I don't feel the fitter was top notch and also had limited head/shaft options. It's why I have decided to do a full bag fitting this winter at True Spec (considered a top notch fitting company).  Perhaps I'll be surprised by the results, perhaps not.  But, I'll leave without thinking I'll left something on the table.

I am still on a quest for a "competent fitting". The next set of clubs I get, I am going to a competent fitting. My first fitting was just bad when I didn't know any better. My second fitting was ok, but not up to what I am expecting.

[fixyurdivot]

39 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I am still on a quest for a "competent fitting". The next set of clubs I get, I am going to a competent fitting. My first fitting was just bad when I didn't know any better. My second fitting was ok, but not up to what I am expecting.

Well, short of some private fitter that I'm completely unaware of, it's down to Club Champion and True Spec for me.  Both have facilities in Scottsdale, AZ.  I'm leaning towards True Spec based on feedback from a handful of our fellow forum members ( @jlukes, @GolfSpy Stroker, @Kenny B, and others)... our reliable source of candid information .

The fitter I used had just opened his facility and, while he had top notch equipment, he seemed to be going through a learning curve.  Great guy, not knocking him, just what it is/was. He also had a very limited selection as compared to those mentioned above.  

[Chip Strokes]

2 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, short of some private fitter that I'm completely unaware of, it's down to Club Champion and True Spec for me.  Both have facilities in Scottsdale, AZ.  I'm leaning towards True Spec based on feedback from a handful of our fellow forum members ( @jlukes, @GolfSpy Stroker, @Kenny B, and others)... our reliable source of candid information .

i’ve also heard great things about TrueSpec. all secondhand, i’ve never been myself, but never a bad word about them 

[dlow206]

4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, short of some private fitter that I'm completely unaware of, it's down to Club Champion and True Spec for me.  Both have facilities in Scottsdale, AZ.  I'm leaning towards True Spec based on feedback from a handful of our fellow forum members ( @jlukes, @GolfSpy Stroker, @Kenny B, and others)... our reliable source of candid information .

The fitter I used had just opened his facility and, while he had top notch equipment, he seemed to be going through a learning curve.  Great guy, not knocking him, just what it is/was. He also had a very limited selection as compared to those mentioned above.  

For me, I am either going to go to TXG, True Spec, or Tour Van (https://thetourvan.com/)

I would prefer to do an outdoor fitting, which can be done with The Tour Van and at some True Spec locations.

 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

43 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Well, short of some private fitter that I'm completely unaware of, it's down to Club Champion and True Spec for me.  Both have facilities in Scottsdale, AZ.  I'm leaning towards True Spec based on feedback from a handful of our fellow forum members ( @jlukes, @GolfSpy Stroker, @Kenny B, and others)... our reliable source of candid information .

The fitter I used had just opened his facility and, while he had top notch equipment, he seemed to be going through a learning curve.  Great guy, not knocking him, just what it is/was. He also had a very limited selection as compared to those mentioned above.  

isn't there also a 2ndswing down there?

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

39 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

For me, I am either going to go to TXG, True Spec, or Tour Van (https://thetourvan.com/)

I would prefer to do an outdoor fitting, which can be done with The Tour Van and at some True Spec locations.

 

I just got fit at the tourvan. Ben is awesome. He did a great job for me compared to the other private fitter that retrofit me to my speedblades, although that other fitter got my driver correct.

Edited September 16, 2020 by rbsiedsc

[dlow206]

1 minute ago, rbsiedsc said:

I just got fit at the tourvan. Ben is awesome. He did a great job for me from the other private fitter that retrofit me to my speedblades, although he got my driver correct.

Nice, if you don't mind, can you give some detail on how Ben does the fittings?

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 minute ago, dlow206 said:

Nice, if you don't mind, can you give some detail on how Ben does the fittings?

Ben does trackman. He had me start with my original clubs (7 iron). Then looking at your numbers and how your swing looks he brings you clubs to try with different shafts. He believes in testing on grass to get proper turf interaction and look at divot patterns. He also will ask you what budget you have. I gave him a budget which caused me to not test the new TM and Mizunos which i kind of wanted to do. He also will order the clubs for you and then check lie and loft when they come in. He can also put on new grips for you. I fully trust a guy who used to fit Rory and Tiger at Nike.

[dlow206]

9 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

Ben does trackman. He had me start with my original clubs (7 iron). Then looking at your numbers and how your swing looks he brings you clubs to try with different shafts. He believes in testing on grass to get proper turf interaction and look at divot patterns. He also will ask you what budget you have. I gave him a budget which caused me to not test the new TM and Mizunos which i kind of wanted to do. He also will order the clubs for you and then check lie and loft when they come in. He can also put on new grips for you. I fully trust a guy who used to fit Rory and Tiger at Nike.

Nice, how did he fit lie angle? Based on ball flight?

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

1 minute ago, dlow206 said:

Nice, how did he fit lie angle? Based on ball flight?

He measured my previous clubs lie angle and watched that ball flight and saw the divot pattern (was toe heavy asymmetric) as a starting point. He has heads of particular lie angles so he has may ways to test after. i believe his trackman data may tell him something too. My previous fitter fit my old clubs via a lie board and turns out he needed to go even further upright

[dlow206]

4 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

He measured my previous clubs lie angle and watched that ball flight and saw the divot pattern (was toe heavy asymmetric) as a starting point. He has heads of particular lie angles so he has may ways to test after. i believe his trackman data may tell him something too. My previous fitter fit my old clubs via a lie board and turns out he needed to go even further upright

Nice, did you get fit into the PXG irons in your sig, or some others?

[fixyurdivot]

21 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

isn't there also a 2ndswing down there?

Other than the selling of used clubs, I really haven't heard much about them for club fitting.  I do see that their "tour van" option is $600 for a full bag.  I wouldn't be opposed to that spend if the value over True Spec or Club Champion is there?  Oddly, they do not list any level 3 fitters at the Scottsdale location.

I did just notice that Club Champion has Wilson among their brand selections - that could sway my decision as well.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

3 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Nice, did you get fit into the PXG irons in your sig, or some others?

Yup. Which i also didnt realize was a progressive set so I am looking forward to more players in the short irons and some GI in the 4-5 iron just for a little help.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

@dlow206, @fixyurdivot,  just an FYI, Ben does take his tour van down to Marana, Arizona, starting in November.

Edited September 16, 2020 by rbsiedsc

[fixyurdivot]

3 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

Yup. Which i also didnt realize was a progressive set so I am looking forward to more players in the short irons and some GI in the 4-5 iron just for a little help.

The mixed bag approach makes more and more sense to me.

[Golfspy_CG2]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Other than the selling of used clubs, I really haven't heard much about them for club fitting.  I do see that their "tour van" option is $600 for a full bag.  I wouldn't be opposed to that spend if the value over True Spec or Club Champion is there?  Oddly, they do not list any level 3 fitters at the Scottsdale location.

I did just notice that Club Champion has Wilson among their brand selections - that could sway my decision as well.

The 2nd swing stores do have full club fitting capability and i think there is one in AZ.   But i think True Specs rep is more widely praised.  Now that could totally be because of number of stores is much greater. 
 

[jroot327]

Just to throw my .02 in here. I have not played a ton of equipment, but recently got a fitting with a bunch of irons in this category. For me the 585s and HMBs were both great performers, and the 585s were less money so I went that direction. So far I'm very happy. Super forgiving, especially in the mid-long irons, that still have a very respectable players size, shape, profile, and top line. Good luck!

[golfwave]

On 9/14/2020 at 7:09 PM, chisag said:

 

... I do not think you are a smart a$$ at all, but like I said in my post "There are always exceptions to general rules and I have no doubt the above works for any given individual". There are many factors that go into why anyone hits some clubs better than others. Confidence in what you're hitting cannot be over stated and some players are just more confident with MB's. My point was certainly not a disagreement as to what works for you (or any other individual player) but just a disagreement that forgiveness is over rated. Most club fitters will tell you all golfers should be playing the most forgiving club they can effectively play. For some that is a MB or a forged CB that is very blade like. But the majority will be able to take advantage of forgiveness inherent in todays club head designs because forgiveness does not mask a bad swing but it can help a shot hit by a bad swing. There are just a ton of players that consistently hit the ball thin, on the toe or consistently low without enough spin or for many just all over the face and they can all use the forgiving features any club can provide. There is a reason OEMs sell more GI and SGI irons with lighter weight graphite shafts than MB's with 120gm steel shafts and it isn't marketing.

... I would certainly never tell anyone on a golf forum that they were wrong because they say they play MB's better than Player Irons or any iron or club better than another. Same with shafts. I have seen 85 mph swing speeds hit x flex better than r flex but these are all exceptions. When OEM's do testing to fine tune a made for shaft they find that the majority of players need more torque, a softer tip and a lighter weight than the aftermarket shaft they are selling. I have no doubt that many more testers hit a made for Ventus Blue better the a true Ventus Blue because most need more spin, not less. Low spin and high launch is great for the better player but the average guy will do very poorly with low spin and mid to low launch that a real Ventus Blue produces. And fwiw, I mostly agree with you that " I still contend the amount of time you spend playing golf is the main key to playing well regardless of the hunk of metal you're holding on to." Unless you are playing clubs that do not fit your swing at all. But as long as you are in the ball park for clubs that fit your swing, it is always more about skill and practice than what club you are using. 

Figuring out that skill and practice (mostly practice, since practice is really the only thing that everybody can do to improve their skills) are what move the needle in my game has saved me a whole lot of time obsessing over the latest and greatest equipment, something I used to do a great deal of.

[Sluggo42]

$600 for a fitting? not in a billion years for me. Maybe if I was a +2 index ... I personally don't think I'm good enough for that level of nano fitting. I play nearly every day, and some days I'm nasty, and some days I stink. What happens if I'm on a stink day during a $600 fitting?

[Bmag]

I found the Mavrik Pro irons very forgiving as far as distance control on off Center hits and dispersion. I have tested the P770 along side the Mavrik Pros and they are good too, not sure which one I will choose. Maybe new models over the winter will come out too. 

[fixyurdivot]

On 10/6/2020 at 10:02 PM, Sluggo42 said:

What happens if I'm on a stink day during a $600 fitting?

Then you walk away with GI specs instead of P or PD specs .  Yea, I think this is a fear many of us have when scheduling  a fitting.  I'm not sure whether the opposite is also problematic... that is you get fitted on the day you can tame a set of Blueprints.  Ideally, I would want my average game to come with me.  

I think that really competent fitters know how to ferret out a customers "true swing" - simply by watching swing mechanics, degree (or not) of consistency, and data spread.  I'm OK with spending $400 for a full bag fitting at a facility like TrueSpec.  I'm operating on the "you get what you pay for" principle and, by all accounts, they are a top shelf choice.  Still no guarantees what game comes with me that day or what outcome it yields, but  I'm not getting any younger and feel this is my last opportunity to optimize the arrows.

[Hook DeLoft]

I got fitted for Mizuno HMB’s on a day I happened to be swinging exceptionally well. Turns out, on an average swing day, the difference in forgiveness between them and a true muscle back was perhaps measurable but not clinically significant, as my medical friends might say. In other words, ten yards short is rarely any worse for my score than being twenty yards short.  Being a club ho, from now on I plan to keep two sets of irons:  one players set and one SGI set. The SGI set sees 80 to 90 percent of my play but I can’t resist occasionally pulling out the purty irons. 

[TxTwinDad+2]

I recently went through a fitting and found the Ping I210 to be most forgiving out of the clubs I tried. I tried the T100's, I210, Apex, Z785. In the end I went with the Apex irons I will say the T100's were the hardest for me to hit they are sexy as hell at address but man that face looked small. 

[AH1980MN]

On 9/16/2020 at 1:19 PM, fixyurdivot said:

Well, short of some private fitter that I'm completely unaware of, it's down to Club Champion and True Spec for me.  Both have facilities in Scottsdale, AZ.  I'm leaning towards True Spec based on feedback from a handful of our fellow forum members ( @jlukes, @GolfSpy Stroker, @Kenny B, and others)... our reliable source of candid information .

The fitter I used had just opened his facility and, while he had top notch equipment, he seemed to be going through a learning curve.  Great guy, not knocking him, just what it is/was. He also had a very limited selection as compared to those mentioned above.  

@fixyurdivot I believe 2nd Swing has a location near you- a perennial Top 100 fitter.

 

*Oops- jumped the gun, didn't read the rest of the comments, rookie mistake.

 

In any case I've been in the tour van section of the Minnetonka store (before remodeling) and it was a legit TXG looking suite. I haven't personally been fit there but I've heard many good things.

Edited November 2, 2020 by AH1980MN
Idiocy

[Golfspy_CG2]

27 minutes ago, AH1980MN said:

@fixyurdivot I believe 2nd Swing has a location near you- a perennial Top 100 fitter.

 

*Oops- jumped the gun, didn't read the rest of the comments, rookie mistake.

 

In any case I've been in the tour van section of the Minnetonka store (before remodeling) and it was a legit TXG looking suite. I haven't personally been fit there but I've heard many good things.

I can vouch for the 2nd Swing Tour Van fitting.  Outside of TXG, it’s the best brand agnostic fitting I’ve been through.