2020 Cobra Players Irons

[ZMendle10]

Is Cobra planning on releasing any new players irons this year? According to the Golf Digest 2020 hot list there appears to be a Cobra King Tour offering so I am curious as to if they are still moving forward  and if there are any blades or cavity backs in the works for this year

[chisag]

... Last I heard they are to be released sometime this fall:

[ZMendle10]

Have you been able to hit these irons at all? I have worked with injection molding in the past 

40 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Last I heard they are to be released sometime this fall:

Where you able to test these irons to some degree? I have worked with injection molding materials in the past but metal was never a material I have worked with so I am curious about how the manufacturing process effects feel compared to forging or casting.

[chisag]

... No, I have not even seen them yet. 

[driveandputtmachine]

I will say the MiM wedges are extremely soft.  Other than a set of Bridgeston J40 CB's the MiM wedges were the easiest clubs I ever put my bending bar on in my Mitchell machine.  Based on the little I have heard it is the same manufacturing process for the irons as it is for the wedges.  Will they use the same metal blend in the irons that they used in the wedges is the big question.  If they do, they could have a serious contender for softest feeling iron out IMHO depending upon how the actual design affects vibration.

They feel super soft when hitting them as well.  I would still be playing them, but I prefer the V Sole from the Cleveland wedges for my swing and turf, which in the end is more important for me.

[ZMendle10]

It's interesting that the feel is still there despite not being forged. I guess with Metal injection molding Cobra is able use softer metals.

[driveandputtmachine]

2 hours ago, ZMendle10 said:

It's interesting that the feel is still there despite not being forged. I guess with Metal injection molding Cobra is able use softer metals.

I am very well versed in Casting and forging and how it works and the different hardness in metals from a previous life.  However I know little to nothing other than a blurb I read on the internet and the blurb Cobra has on their website(which may or may not be true) about MiM.  So I am guessing some way shape or form Cobra is using some metal mixture in the process that somehow makes it softer, or maybe the process does in some way I am not aware of.  Like I said I know little to nothing about Metal Injection Molding.  I know bending them was easier than almost anything else.

Three main things effect feel.  Metal used(forging vs. casting does nothing to feel for 99.9% of humans), design of the clubhead, and components used.  If you were to take two 8620 metal heads designed exactly the same and one was forged and once was cast(relatively easy metal to do both) and the heads had the same weight, and same shaft and grip.  No one would be able to tell the difference.  Can you cast 1020 or 1025?  Yes you can, but in general I do not believe a manufacturer has cast that metal in a club head that I can remember.  I will see if I can dig up the test, but there was an 8620 test done with PGA tour players and they could not tell the difference in the two heads of cast vs forged.

The forged feels softer misnomer that runs around the internet is strictly from the metal used, most club heads are cast with some kind of stainless, and while there have been major gains in new stainless that is softer and can be forged more easily (DT-4 for example) it is still harder than 1020 or 1025(which is what most companies forge, or some semblance of a similar carbon steel).  Carbon steel in inherently softer than stainless.

Could you make a forged 1025 head feel harder than a cast 8620 head?  Yep, with the design of the club heads.  Could you make a 1025 forged feel harder than a 431 stainless cast head?  Harder to do, but I believe it is possible.

[ZMendle10]

20 hours ago, Golferplus1 said:

I am very well versed in Casting and forging and how it works and the different hardness in metals from a previous life.  However I know little to nothing other than a blurb I read on the internet and the blurb Cobra has on their website(which may or may not be true) about MiM.  So I am guessing some way shape or form Cobra is using some metal mixture in the process that somehow makes it softer, or maybe the process does in some way I am not aware of.  Like I said I know little to nothing about Metal Injection Molding.  I know bending them was easier than almost anything else.

Three main things effect feel.  Metal used(forging vs. casting does nothing to feel for 99.9% of humans), design of the clubhead, and components used.  If you were to take two 8620 metal heads designed exactly the same and one was forged and once was cast(relatively easy metal to do both) and the heads had the same weight, and same shaft and grip.  No one would be able to tell the difference.  Can you cast 1020 or 1025?  Yes you can, but in general I do not believe a manufacturer has cast that metal in a club head that I can remember.  I will see if I can dig up the test, but there was an 8620 test done with PGA tour players and they could not tell the difference in the two heads of cast vs forged.

The forged feels softer misnomer that runs around the internet is strictly from the metal used, most club heads are cast with some kind of stainless, and while there have been major gains in new stainless that is softer and can be forged more easily (DT-4 for example) it is still harder than 1020 or 1025(which is what most companies forge, or some semblance of a similar carbon steel).  Carbon steel in inherently softer than stainless.

Could you make a forged 1025 head feel harder than a cast 8620 head?  Yep, with the design of the club heads.  Could you make a 1025 forged feel harder than a 431 stainless cast head?  Harder to do, but I believe it is possible.

All really great information. 

From what I understand with Injection molding (both through experience and reading about it) injection molding is exactly what it sounds like where you have a material that gets squirted into a mold and over time the material cures and solidifies. This is essentially what Cobra is already doing with thier forged tech irons where you have a mold (the hollow body head) and you inject their liquid that once it cures and settles it becomes the foam micro-sphere technology. How they are able to do this process with metal I couldn't tell you other than in theory it is the same idea but different materials. 

Also if grain structure of an iron is what contributes to feel as well than theoretically you can control that as well with both metal injection molding or even 3D Printed golf clubs for that matter.

[ejgaudette]

On 9/9/2020 at 3:08 PM, chisag said:

... Last I heard they are to be released sometime this fall:

These irons look absolutely great, and I agree with others that the mim process seems to allow for a very soft feeling iron. Would love to hit these when they come out.

[ZMendle10]

On 9/15/2020 at 10:37 AM, ejgaudette said:

These irons look absolutely great, and I agree with others that the mim process seems to allow for a very soft feeling iron. Would love to hit these when they come out.

I was watching a TXG's livestream yesterday and they mentioned something about the embargo on new Cobra irons being lifted on December 9th. I could be totally off base here but in terms of news this is the only thing that I have heard.

[null]

If the performance is correlated to how many words they were able to jam on the back these should be amazing irons. 

[driveandputtmachine]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:39 AM, ZMendle10 said:

All really great information. 

From what I understand with Injection molding (both through experience and reading about it) injection molding is exactly what it sounds like where you have a material that gets squirted into a mold and over time the material cures and solidifies. This is essentially what Cobra is already doing with thier forged tech irons where you have a mold (the hollow body head) and you inject their liquid that once it cures and settles it becomes the foam micro-sphere technology. How they are able to do this process with metal I couldn't tell you other than in theory it is the same idea but different materials. 

Also if grain structure of an iron is what contributes to feel as well than theoretically you can control that as well with both metal injection molding or even 3D Printed golf clubs for that matter.

Essentially what every company is doing with all of the foam filled irons.  Injecting/squirting/pushing a substance (foam/rubber/spheres/whatever) into a head (injection molding)should not be confused with this new process of metal injection molding.   This is completely new in the golf club industry.

However MiM is actually metal powder mixed with something and then injected into a "form".  Once it solidifies then the head is heated and voila you have a club head.  Yes, there is then polishing and milling the grooves and what not.  However in constructing heads you now have Forging/casting/milling/Metal Injection Molding as different ways to form the metal itself into a shape.  Depending upon the consistency of the metal powder you could probably find a way to use this mixture for 3d printing as well.  Which I bet is right around the corner.

Cobra claims better grain structure for it's softness.  The metal itself that is used or the mixture of metals has way more influence on the feel than grain structure.  Does grain structure matter?  Of course it does, and it matters in some metals more than others, but that mixed with the head shape and metal gives you an overall softness with the metals chosen being the biggest component of feeling soft.

If you mill a putter with the grain flowing from heel to toe rather than front to back it changes the feel of the putter with stainless to make it feel harder in the heel to toe grain configuration.  This was an issue with the EVNROLL ER5 when they first made it with heel to toe grain and then the two pockets for weight caused a higher pitch and a sense of a harder feel.  They have changed this in the later millings.

 

[ejgaudette]

44 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

I was watching a TXG's livestream yesterday and they mentioned something about the embargo on new Cobra irons being lifted on December 9th. I could be totally off base here but in terms of news this is the only thing that I have heard.

I think I heard that as well, can't wait to hear about them.

[sirchunksalot]

I saw in an email this morning they are available for pre-order. 

[ZMendle10]

2 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

I saw in an email this morning they are available for pre-order. 

Where you emailed personally about the pre-order or was it an image floating around on the internet?

[ZMendle10]

25 minutes ago, Golferplus1 said:

Essentially what every company is doing with all of the foam filled irons.  Injecting/squirting/pushing a substance (foam/rubber/spheres/whatever) into a head (injection molding)should not be confused with this new process of metal injection molding.   This is completely new in the golf club industry.

However MiM is actually metal powder mixed with something and then injected into a "form".  Once it solidifies then the head is heated and voila you have a club head.  Yes, there is then polishing and milling the grooves and what not.  However in constructing heads you now have Forging/casting/milling/Metal Injection Molding as different ways to form the metal itself into a shape.  Depending upon the consistency of the metal powder you could probably find a way to use this mixture for 3d printing as well.  Which I bet is right around the corner.

Cobra claims better grain structure for it's softness.  The metal itself that is used or the mixture of metals has way more influence on the feel than grain structure.  Does grain structure matter?  Of course it does, and it matters in some metals more than others, but that mixed with the head shape and metal gives you an overall softness with the metals chosen being the biggest component of feeling soft.

If you mill a putter with the grain flowing from heel to toe rather than front to back it changes the feel of the putter with stainless to make it feel harder in the heel to toe grain configuration.  This was an issue with the EVNROLL ER5 when they first made it with heel to toe grain and then the two pockets for weight caused a higher pitch and a sense of a harder feel.  They have changed this in the later millings.

 

3D printing is definitely right around the corner especially with Cobra currently using MIM and seeming to have success in terms of a process consistent enough for production. And in terms of grain structure 3D printing would be a huge benefit in consistency and control as you can control how the direction of the clubhead is being printed.

[ZMendle10]

The cobra website has been updated to include the new irons for sale and an article on these irons was just published to the front page of My Golf Spy website. 

https://mygolfspy.com/cobra-king-tour-irons/

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by ZMendle10

[Shankster]

Yep. Can’t wait to give these a try.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

Definitely second that.... except they are RH only.

[jddaigneault]

#CCC5?! Yes please!

[ZMendle10]

31 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

#CCC5?! Yes please!

what's #CCC5?

[sirchunksalot]

2 hours ago, ZMendle10 said:

Where you emailed personally about the pre-order or was it an image floating around on the internet?

I received the email from golf Galaxy. 

[sirchunksalot]

19 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

what's #CCC5?

Cobra Connect Challenge 5, which will be taking place next year. #4 just wrapped up and if you go into official member reviews, you can read the thread. Our testers did a great job this year. 

[jddaigneault]

25 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

what's #CCC5?

You poor soul. You missed it the #CCC4. It’s a yearly review/challenge cobra and MGS put on with some very fortunate testers. Definitely worth checking out, and staying tuned for next year’s #CCC5!

[ZMendle10]

6 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

You poor soul. You missed it the #CCC4. It’s a yearly review/challenge cobra and MGS put on with some very fortunate testers. Definitely worth checking out, and staying tuned for next year’s #CCC5!

I just read up on the format of the #CCC4 and I am very disappointed in missing it. It sounds amazing.

[russtopherb]

I really like the looks of these irons. For some reason my initial thought was that the cavity reminded me a little of the Bio Cells but that passed quickly. I don't have the game for these but I like they way they look for sure.

[ZMendle10]

46 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I really like the looks of these irons. For some reason my initial thought was that the cavity reminded me a little of the Bio Cells but that passed quickly. I don't have the game for these but I like they way they look for sure.

I can kind of see it. I used to have a set of amp cell irons. They weren't a bad set considering i was able to get them for like $200.

[hartrick11]

I have tried most of the Cobra iron offerings over the last decade and think they tend to be underrated performers, so I have no doubt that these clubs will work as-advertised. Love the at-address look, and the back of the iron looks like some of the prior AP2s.  I am a little confused by the marketing pitch though; if the MIM process creates a tighter grain flow and softer feel than their prior forged offerings, why do you need the TPU on the back? 

 

[Jtom2012]

Beautiful irons

Sent from my moto g(7) power using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[chisag]

1 hour ago, hartrick11 said:

I have tried most of the Cobra iron offerings over the last decade and think they tend to be underrated performers, so I have no doubt that these clubs will work as-advertised. Love the at-address look, and the back of the iron looks like some of the prior AP2s.  I am a little confused by the marketing pitch though*; if the MIM process creates a tighter grain flow and softer feel than their prior forged offerings, why do you need the TPU on the back? 

 

...   Like you, I have played the last 3 versions of Cobra's Players Irons and completely agree that they are underrated performers. Rick Shiels said exactly that while reviewing the Forged Tours. "Players Irons" are an interesting category ranging from near MB like features, size and shape to GI size, shape and closer in forgiveness. Where I thought the Amp Forged, Fly Z+ and Forged Tours really shined was they fit right in the middle of the PI category. Thin top line, thinnish sole, awesome forged feel, excellent playability producing any shot you have the skill to play, slightly longer heel to toe and while not the most forgiving irons I have played they are surprisingly forgiving for a PI. This is why I have owned the last 3 sets. I will have to see what these look like at address, but imagine I will own a set sometime in my future. 

* I gave up on marketing and graphics long ago. The OEMs simply can't win. Too much bling or not enough bling. Too busy or too plain. One of their goals of course is instant recognizability. Hence the huge KING and multi coloring which should set them apart from other PI's. Starting with the Orange Amp Forged, Cobra has never been shy about branding their players irons. And my guess after talking with the VP's of Engineering is while the thin MIM face will feel soft, there is still some rebound effect and the TPU gives it a more solid feel. I hit a Forged Tour without the TPU and there was an obvious difference in feel.