The 120th U.S. Open

[ncwoz]

19 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

this is what i don’t really understand about the fascination with Bryson’s driving. 

rory, dj, koepka and finau run it out there pretty much as far as he does

yesterday, Wolff regularly outdrove him 

is there something i’m missing?

 

1 minute ago, PMookie said:

On Saturday, on one of the holes, there was a display put-up on the screen with where guys had hit their drives... Bryson has been outdriven by FIVE other golfers.

Bryson STILL had to hit greens, from the rough where everyone else was, and he also had to make the putts. What’s missing is the trophy in Rory’s hands. He’s jealous.

DJ just blew away the field for a couple weeks, but all of a sudden, HIS distance isn’t talked about.

I’m with you. I don’t understand what these  commentators are missing...

I think if we take a sec and don't just eat what the media is feeding us, it's clear that Bryson is not good just because he drives it far. As mentioned by a few people, Bryson obviously does hit it really far, but so do a good chunk of other players as well. The difference was also not just his impressive tee shot performance but also putting. And approach. And putting. And scrambling...notice a trend? Haha. Bryson played a friggin' fantastic round, there is no way around that.

I think it says something that the last month or two when Bryson wasn't at the top of the leaderboards the distance debate went waaaaaay down, even though a guy who can hit just as far (DJ) was dominating. I think the reason Bryson's success comes with all this "controversy" more than other long hitters is pretty simple: lots of people don't like Bryson.

For some it's just because he's not traditional, and they take an old school approach. Then when he succeeds and it flies in the face of "their" way, they think it shouldn't be allowed. For other people I think his personality and how he comes off rubs him wrong. I'm sure some don't like the way his swing looks. Whatever the case...here are some FACTS:

Bryson was 3rd in strokes gained off the tee. Rory was first, more than 1.5 strokes gained on Bryson. Bubba was second by a bit, and Rahm was just behind Bryson. (PS hey Rory, maybe instead of complaining about how well Bryson played you should figure out what the heck you're doing around the greens, yikes.)

Bryson was top 3 strokes gained in Driving, Approach, and Around the Green. That's literally insane, good for him. 18th for putting, still nothing to scoff at. THAT's why he won, he played such a complete tournament.

Okay, rant over haha. I do appreciate GC actually trying to make sure people know he played good all around and it wasn't just his driving, the rest of the golf world would do good to have a healthy perspective change on Bryson's game. Admittedly not a big Bryson fan myself, but it's a personality thing for me. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

[Rickp]

"If they want to Tiger-proof it, there is a way.  Use the ladies' tees, eliminate all the rough, put pins in the easiest locations and widen the fairways.  That brings everybody in the field into the tournament and I guarantee you, Tiger wouldn't win!"  ~Earl Woods circa 2002~

Now that’s interesting.


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[PMookie]

28 minutes ago, ncwoz said:

 

I think if we take a sec and don't just eat what the media is feeding us, it's clear that Bryson is not good just because he drives it far. As mentioned by a few people, Bryson obviously does hit it really far, but so do a good chunk of other players as well. The difference was also not just his impressive tee shot performance but also putting. And approach. And putting. And scrambling...notice a trend? Haha. Bryson played a friggin' fantastic round, there is no way around that.

I think it says something that the last month or two when Bryson wasn't at the top of the leaderboards the distance debate went waaaaaay down, even though a guy who can hit just as far (DJ) was dominating. I think the reason Bryson's success comes with all this "controversy" more than other long hitters is pretty simple: lots of people don't like Bryson.

For some it's just because he's not traditional, and they take an old school approach. Then when he succeeds and it flies in the face of "their" way, they think it shouldn't be allowed. For other people I think his personality and how he comes off rubs him wrong. I'm sure some don't like the way his swing looks. Whatever the case...here are some FACTS:

Bryson was 3rd in strokes gained off the tee. Rory was first, more than 1.5 strokes gained on Bryson. Bubba was second by a bit, and Rahm was just behind Bryson. (PS hey Rory, maybe instead of complaining about how well Bryson played you should figure out what the heck you're doing around the greens, yikes.)

Bryson was top 3 strokes gained in Driving, Approach, and Around the Green. That's literally insane, good for him. 18th for putting, still nothing to scoff at. THAT's why he won, he played such a complete tournament.

Okay, rant over haha. I do appreciate GC actually trying to make sure people know he played good all around and it wasn't just his driving, the rest of the golf world would do good to have a healthy perspective change on Bryson's game. Admittedly not a big Bryson fan myself, but it's a personality thing for me. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

And then you have Damron whining and saying “add spin to the ball”... Still gonna hit it further.

[Kenny B]

30 minutes ago, sixcat said:

That's my thought as well.  The USGA will be more responsive because it's Bryson.  

AND now he's going to work with a 48" driver.  

That will make the USGA and R&A limit driver length to 43", AND help most of the average golfers... like me.

[ncwoz]

1 minute ago, PMookie said:

And then you have Danton whining and saying “add spin to the ball”... Still gonna hit it further.

UGH! Amen to that haha. You can't tell Bryson he has to hit a nerf ball just cuz you don't like him and let everyone else hit tour balls. No matter what you do the long hitters will be longer than the short hitters.

[Shankster]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

But the Honda Civic is the most stolen car in the U.S.  

Lots of swings out there there look like a civic....  can’t tell them apart.

it’s the odd ones like Wolff, BAD, Furyk, That one Guy, and the other ones that make up the Ferrari, Porsche, and Skoda’s of the world.

[Kansas King]

I think Bryson won this fair and square. I don't think this was a bomb and gouge event like others in the past. Bryson hit a lot of fairways in the last round and hit great approach shots. The fact Bryson can CONTROL where he hits 360 yard drives is a testament to how good he is. Watch some of the long drive guys on YouTube try and play golf. Being able to control spin is an immense challenge for long hitters and it shows Bryson is a master.

I'm not against the PGA and USGA adjusting rough length, fairway width, course conditions, etc., to change up the risk reward characteristics of the golf course. Personally, I don't love watching events where the only two clubs used is a driver and a wedge. However, I give credit to Bryson and the other long hitters for doing what it takes to win.

Regarding the equipment conversation, I don't think were at a point where changes are necessary. The idea of slowing down the ball sounds like a debacle just waiting to happen. Golf clubs still have a COR restriction at 0.83. 

My opinion is to let them play. The PGA and USGA control the course and the rest is up to the players. If bomb and gouge is the future, so be it. Bryson hasn't won every tournament and Bubba Watson was incredibly long and he didn't win every tournament at his peak. 

[keveng]

13 hours ago, ncwoz said:

Boy, great round of golf and Bryson is no doubt gonna be around for a while. But yeesh, that post round interview with him was painful. I have absolutely no issues with how he's approaching the game, but the "I'm so smart, let me show everybody the big words I know" shtick definitely rubs me wrong

My opinion only!  

I think the problem Bryson has when he talks to the media is that the people he hangs around with talk like he does.  So most people feel he is talking down to them.  I’ve been accused by many people of this (including my wife) and have spent the last 20 years trying to be more cognizant of it.  My crew growing up went 2 mechanical engineers, masters in chemistry, pharmacy with Dr in nuclear pharmacy, and the last got into med school before deciding he wanted no part of that.  Bryson has a degree in physics and from all appearances is a total nerd.  Most of us nerds, hung out with other nerds, and are socially stunted.  
That was too long my apologies but couldn’t figure out how to say it different. 

[FrogginBullfish]

The day they add spin to the ball is the day Bryson shows up with a 0° lofted driver...

And then you have Damron whining and saying “add spin to the ball”... Still gonna hit it further.

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[sixcat]

1 hour ago, Rickp said:

Now that’s interesting.


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The entire article.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-mar-21-sp-bonk21-story.html

 

[sixcat]

1 hour ago, PMookie said:

And then you have Damron whining and saying “add spin to the ball”... Still gonna hit it further.

Equipment manufacturers foot the bill for so much of the cottage-industries surrounding golf.  Without the equipment manufacturers, we wouldn't have golf on TV, magazines, websites like MGS, or entertainment entities like No Laying Up or EAL.  It's also probable, the USGA wouldn't exist, at least not in the sense that the USGA exists today.

That being said, the equipment manufacturers aren't going to get overly bent out of shape over the anchored putter ban because they don't sell billions of dollars worth of broom sticks.  But if the USGA messes with golf ball and driver technology the equipment manufacturers spent millions developing over the past 20+ years,  we will see litigation the likes of which the golf industry has never seen.  Including the Ping lawsuits over the Eye 2's, in which the USGA ultimately lost.

My point is, the USGA can't put the toothpaste back in he tube.  Where we are today is likely never going to reverse.  If limits on technology are warranted, they need to stop it where it is today and limit what is yet to come.

Coincidentally,  I liken this issue to what's happening in baseball today.  Speed is king.  Swing hard and hit 45 HR's or strike out 200 times a season.  Batting average is irrelevant.  OBP and OBPS are the key stats in baseball today.  It doesn't matter how you get on base.  Therefore, we are seeing record numbers of stirkeouts, walks and homeruns.

[NRJyzr]

19 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

BRYSON!!

I'm so pumped to see him take this home. The ultimate vindication.

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I didn't start reading this thread until today, my first thought on Page 1 was "well, his post aged well."

LOL 

[NRJyzr]

3 hours ago, Tsmithjr9 said:

This is a point I've been making too. It's not just Bryson hammering it, but about a dozen guys. Rahm too, and didn't Cameron Champ lead the PGA in distance awhile ago? Don't make a ruling that effects everyone because of 12-15 players. Leave us amateurs out of the discussion.

Also bomb and gouge isn't some new phenomenon. Tiger essentially started it, or it was the other pro's response to him. Point is this style has been dominant on the tour for close to 25 years. A few guys are just finding another level with it.

Take Dead Aim
 

Vijay actually is the one credited with starting bomb and gouge.  Prior to that, everyone just made the same lazy assumptions.

Bomb and gouge has *always* been viable.  60 years ago, most guys didn't have the strength to do it, and few looked to buck The Way that was taught, and reinforced with all the narrative.

You could argue Nicklaus started it.  He's regarded by some to be the best rough player ever, or one of the best.  A lot of speed, and a more vertical swing.  He may not have fully realized it at the time, but i think he was doing it.  See: Open Championship, 1977, #18. 

Disclaimer: just a half baked theory

Edited September 21, 2020 by NRJyzr
Cuz I added stuff

[THEZIPR23]

 

This is the shot that changed golf forever. Nobody else before him would even think about a shot like this let alone pull it off. 

Speed doesn't just equal distance it also equals the ability to hit out of rough like this. 

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, keveng said:

My opinion only!  

I think the problem Bryson has when he talks to the media is that the people he hangs around with talk like he does.  So most people feel he is talking down to them.  I’ve been accused by many people of this (including my wife) and have spent the last 20 years trying to be more cognizant of it.  My crew growing up went 2 mechanical engineers, masters in chemistry, pharmacy with Dr in nuclear pharmacy, and the last got into med school before deciding he wanted no part of that.  Bryson has a degree in physics and from all appearances is a total nerd.  Most of us nerds, hung out with other nerds, and are socially stunted.  
That was too long my apologies but couldn’t figure out how to say it different. 

 

I think you said it fairly well.  Though I would suggest it's not that nerds are socially stunted, they're (ok, we're, LOL) adapted to a different sphere of social interaction.  One that some/many/most of the "general public" don't quite understand.

 

[DiscipleofPenick]

Vijay actually is the one credited with starting bomb and gouge.  Prior to that, everyone just made the same lazy assumptions.
Bomb and gouge has *always* been viable.  60 years ago, most guys didn't have the strength to do it, and few looked to buck The Way that was taught, and reinforced with all the narrative.
You could argue Nicklaus started it.  He's regarded by some to be the best rough player ever, or one of the best.  A lot of speed, and a more vertical swing.  He may not have fully realized it at the time, but i think he was doing it.  See: Open Championship, 1977, #18. 
Disclaimer: just a half baked theory

I see your point, I can see it dating even earlier. Tom Kite started carrying a 60* in the early 1990s? Those higher loft wedges helped advance that style of play before guys starting carrying it 320.

Take Dead Aim

[FrogginBullfish]

This is a must read thread...

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[Rickp]

A break in the Bryson action. I found this while cleaning the garage this afternoon.
2006 Winged Foot


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[Rickp]

A break in the Bryson action. I found this while cleaning the garage this afternoon.
2006 Winged Foot


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Oops, put in the Shinnecock DT by mistake.


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[fixyurdivot]

8 hours ago, sixcat said:

My other take-a-way from last week.  Given the last five US Open winners have been DJ, Koepka, Koepka, Woodland and DeChambeau, can we finally agree tighter fairways and longer rough are NOT a defense for bomb and gouge?  It actually increases their chances as Koepka has pointed out on several occasions.

Then strategically change some long distance rough to bone dry, hard as concrete dirt areas (free of patrons), with slope that sends balls bounding into knee high shrubs.  If you can bomb it straight, no downside, if you can't... start developing "the hack" shot.

[Chip Strokes]

1 minute ago, fixyurdivot said:

Then strategically change some long distance rough to bone dry, hard as concrete dirt areas (free of patrons), with slope that sends balls bounding into knee high shrubs.  If you can bomb it straight, no downside, if you can't... start developing "the hack" shot.

water hazards at the 320 mark 10 yards to the right and left of the fairway. 

bryson, dj, brooks, rory, rahm, finau, and bubba will spend the whole week swimming.

[Carl Bunch]

Announcers slobbering over Bryson's driving but he was actually only 7th in driving distance for the week.

He won because he was top 3 in strokes gained off the tee, approaches, and around the green (18th in putting).
Meaning he won because of a solid all-around game, not because of his driving.


(But he's still a huge Trumper, so screw that guy).

[Kenny B]

Bryson is a smart guy.  I'm sure he realized that he had to improve his distance off the tee to compete with the big dogs.  Then when he got to Wing Foot, he realized that all players were going to be missing fairways, so he planned to play the course the way he always does, and let the cards fall as they may.  I'm impressed that he stuck with his plan all four days.  He knew that he could hit balls out of the rough with wedges better than others further back with longer clubs.  I also think his clubs with those JumboMax grips helped him dig the ball out of that rough better than anyone could with regular grips.  Oh yeah... he also putted really well.

[tony@CIC]

Bryson is a smart guy.  I'm sure he realized that he had to improve his distance off the tee to compete with the big dogs.  Then when he got to Wing Foot, he realized that all players were going to be missing fairways, so he planned to play the course the way he always does, and let the cards fall as they may.  I'm impressed that he stuck with his plan all four days.  He knew that he could hit balls out of the rough with wedges better than others further back with longer clubs.  I also think his clubs with those JumboMax grips helped him dig the ball out of that rough better than anyone could with regular grips.  Oh yeah... he also putted really well.

I agree he played well - but I still don't like him. He's one of three golfers I'd never want to play with or have a beer with; Bryson, Sergio and Rham.


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[Kenny B]

24 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I agree he played well - but I still don't like him. He's one of three golfers I'd never want to play with or have a beer with; Bryson, Sergio and Rham.
 

I think we will be seeing a lot of Bryson winning tournaments over the next several years.  I like the way he analyzes the courses and his game and uses his talent to his advantage.  I guess it's the science we have in common.  Please don't dislike me too!!  

I don't know Bryson, and I won't pass judgement.  I know many pros, and I have to say that there are many more pros that have attitudes I don't care for than ones I do.  Most times what they do on the course is not what they do off the course, and it goes both ways.

But... I'd have a beer with Bryson, then maybe I'll know him.

[tony@CIC]

11 hours ago, Kenny B said:

  Please don't dislike me too!!  

Not to worry, I'm an analytical guy myself so we're all good!   It's the temperament/attitude that I dislike about all three. Maybe that's why I prefer watching LPGA. Last weekend, I saw Danielle Kang mouth the words F***, as she hit a bad shot. She still had a smile and went about her way without banging her club into the green. 

[sixcat]

I will admit, I find it a bit refreshing that the most talked about golfer in the world at the moment, wasn't a "country club kid" growing up.  Maybe that speaks more to my own perspective, having grown up in such a way that sacrifices were a daily obstacle.  Does mom pay the utility bill or buy bologna, cheese and bread to feed us for the next few days?  If we're fortunate, mayo will be on sale and we can splurge!

Golf is a sport that comes with certain stereotypes and preconceived notions.  It's nice to see someone come along and turn those stereotypes on their head.  "Perspective" is something in short supply around the world right now!

[Middler]

12 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I agree he played well - but I still don't like him. He's one of three golfers I'd never want to play with or have a beer with; Bryson, Sergio and Rham.


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Most of the people who don’t care for Bryson don’t care about his length, it’s how poorly he’s treated others. I disliked him long before he began his physical changes. There are only two players I don’t know want to see win, Bryson and Sergio. That said, Bryson clearly outplayed the field at Winged Foot and earned the win. But he’s still a d***. Maybe he’ll grow up some day.

[fixyurdivot]

14 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I agree he played well - but I still don't like him. He's one of three golfers I'd never want to play with or have a beer with; Bryson, Sergio and Rham.


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I think Poulter, Montgomerie, Sergio and a few others are asshats at times, but I'd play a round and have a beer with anyone before deciding not to a second time. I've had a fair number of folks surprise me over the years. 

[Quigleyd]

15 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I agree he played well - but I still don't like him. He's one of three golfers I'd never want to play with or have a beer with; Bryson, Sergio and Rham.


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I am a fan. I have been for a while. I love that he does things his way. I think he is really really misunderstood. I think he is trying too hard to be smooth in interviews but just comes across silly. He played the best this week and he won. Everyone talks about his distance but he was 7th this week in total distance.

 

Any way. I am a fan..