The 120th U.S. Open

[THEZIPR23]

3 hours ago, sixcat said:

I will admit, I find it a bit refreshing that the most talked about golfer in the world at the moment, wasn't a "country club kid" growing up.  Maybe that speaks more to my own perspective, having grown up in such a way that sacrifices were a daily obstacle.  Does mom pay the utility bill or buy bologna, cheese and bread to feed us for the next few days?  If we're fortunate, mayo will be on sale and we can splurge!

Golf is a sport that comes with certain stereotypes and preconceived notions.  It's nice to see someone come along and turn those stereotypes on their head.  "Perspective" is something in short supply around the world right now!

While you are correct, Bryson did have a great advantage growing up in golf that a lot of people don't get. His dad is a PGA professional, good guy and good golfer, but a little weird too. When John was GM at Dragonfly Bryson was out there all the time. Also allowed him to work with Mike Schy all the time and my guess is at little to no cost. Not a "country club" kid but some certain advantages. 

[sixcat]

9 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

While you are correct, Bryson did have a great advantage growing up in golf that a lot of people don't get. His dad is a PGA professional, good guy and good golfer, but a little weird too. When John was GM at Dragonfly Bryson was out there all the time. Also allowed him to work with Mike Schy all the time and my guess is at little to no cost. Not a "country club" kid but some certain advantages. 

Beginning at the 3:40 mark.

 

 

[THEZIPR23]

1 minute ago, sixcat said:

Beginning at the 3:40 mark.

 

 

I don't doubt that at all! I know the money you don't make working in the golf business. 

[sixcat]

56 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I don't doubt that at all! I know the money you don't make working in the golf business. 

Couple that with the cost of living in California..........

[FrogginBullfish]

Mike Davis is stepping down as CEO of the USGA at the end of 2021...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mike-davis-to-step-down-as-USGA-CEO-at-end-of-2021

[sixcat]

11 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Mike Davis is stepping down as CEO of the USGA at the end of 2021...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mike-davis-to-step-down-as-USGA-CEO-at-end-of-2021

Light at the end of the tunnel.........2021 is already looking brighter than the shitshow that has been 2020!

 

[Kenny B]

10 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Not to worry, I'm an analytical guy myself so we're all good!   It's the temperament/attitude that I dislike about all three. Maybe that's why I prefer watching LPGA. Last weekend, I saw Danielle Kang mouth the words F***, as she hit a bad shot. She still had a smile and went about her way without banging her club into the green. 

I think everyone mellows with age.  I'm mellow... sometimes!!  LOL

However, there are some asshats on the Champions Tour!!

[fixyurdivot]

6 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Mike Davis is stepping down as CEO of the USGA at the end of 2021...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/mike-davis-to-step-down-as-USGA-CEO-at-end-of-2021

Two immediate thoughts I have.  First, he dosen't want to deal with the distance debate and changes at the rules & equipment level.  Second, guess what he plans to do with his spare time... course design... so he'll take care of the distance thing indirectly .

[RoverRick]

Mike Davis as a golf course designer. This is the first course during his tenure that the USGA hasn’t screwed up during the US Open, and that was probably because it was so late in the year.


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[Middler]

On 9/22/2020 at 2:25 PM, sixcat said:

Light at the end of the tunnel.........2021 is already looking brighter than the shitshow that has been 2020!

I don't have any opinion on Mike Davis.

But I'm not sure what they could have done much better - Covid-19 was the overriding shitshow.

23 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

First, he doesn't want to deal with the distance debate and changes at the rules & equipment level.

Is there a consensus on what should be done ? None that I've ever seen. It looks like a choice between a couple of really bad "solutions" and lots of people are going to be VERY unhappy no matter which one they choose, if any. Doing nothing (and curbing further equipment related distance gains) is probably the path of least resistance...and probably the reason no one has 'dealt' with the 'issue.'

[sixcat]

Is there a consensus on what should be done ? None that I've ever seen. It looks like a choice between a couple of really bad "solutions" and lots of people are going to be VERY unhappy no matter which one they choose, if any. Doing nothing (and curbing further equipment related distance gains) is probably the path of least resistance...and probably the reason no one has 'dealt' with the 'issue.'

Mike Davis was solely responsible for the debacle that was Shinnecock......twice! As the seventh ever Executive Director of the USGA, he appointed himself as the organization’s first ever CEO. You know, because Executive Director wasn’t baller enough I suppose. He has flatly refuses to address equipment issues. Allows anchored putters after “anchoring” was banned. Probably most egregious of all, continually attempts to dictate terms to the R&A rather than work with them on properly governing the game.

I will say again, 2021 is already looking up with this news!


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[Middler]

16 hours ago, sixcat said:

Mike Davis was solely responsible for the debacle that was Shinnecock......twice! As the seventh ever Executive Director of the USGA, he appointed himself as the organization’s first ever CEO. You know, because Executive Director wasn’t baller enough I suppose. He has flatly refuses to address equipment issues. Allows anchored putters after “anchoring” was banned. Probably most egregious of all, continually attempts to dictate terms to the R&A rather than work with them on properly governing the game.

I will say again, 2021 is already looking up with this news!


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Again, I don’t have an opinion on Davis. But what is the (obvious) solution to the distance problem he refuses to address? Or what equipment issue is he refusing to address if it’s something apart from distance - anchoring or other? I’m not trying to pick a fight, I just don’t see an obvious or easy answer to the distance issue. Lots of people agree it’s a problem, should have been addressed earlier (before Davis), but there are several strongly held suggestion with no consensus on what to do about it that I’ve seen.

[sixcat]

On 9/24/2020 at 2:01 PM, Middler said:

Again, I don’t have an opinion on Davis. But what is the (obvious) solution to the distance problem he refuses to address? Or what equipment issue is he refusing to address if it’s something apart from distance - anchoring or other? I’m not trying to pick a fight, I just don’t see an obvious or easy answer to the distance issue. Lots of people agree it’s a problem, should have been addressed earlier (before Davis), but there are several strongly held suggestion with no consensus on what to do about it that I’ve seen.

As technology, materials and manufacturing processes have improved, the USGA has failed to be proactive in reigning in those aspects of the game.  They have been very reactive, and the reaction hasn't been positive nor has it been directed toward the right aspects of the game.  I don't have a solution nor the time to figure one out.  That doesn't disqualify me from seeing, the game has a big problem in terms of the parameters set for equipment tolerances. 

Mike Davis was so aghast at the optics of long/anchored putters winning majors, he fell all over himself to ban anchoring.  Mike Davis was so aghast that players could stop balls on greens from heavy rough, he raced to ban square grooves.  Has either ban made any difference whatsoever?  I think not.

Manufacturers simply perfected the design of "V" grooves, making them better than square grooves had ever been.  Many, many players are still anchoring putters.  They are doing it in such a way as to side-step the rules but, there they are.....putters anchored to forearms, forearm anchored to the chest,, etc. etc. etc.

Again, I don't have a solution.  I'm just happy a new set of eyes are coming into the fold because I believe Mike Davis' eyes had become blind to the real issues facing golf in the 21st century.  The equipment issues began with David B. Fay and continued through Mike Davis.

 

[NRJyzr]

9 hours ago, sixcat said:

Mike Davis was so aghast at the optics of long/anchored putters winning majors, he fell all over himself to ban anchoring.  Mike Davis was so aghast that players could stop balls on greens from heavy rough, he raced to ban square grooves.  Has either ban made any difference whatsoever?  I think not.

Manufacturers simply perfected the design of "V" grooves, making them better than square grooves had ever been.  Many, many players are still anchoring putters.  They are doing it in such a way as to side-step the rules but, there they are.....putters anchored to forearms, forearm anchored to the chest,, etc. etc. etc.

Again, I don't have a solution.  I'm just happy a new set of eyes are coming into the fold because I believe Mike Davis' eyes had become blind to the real issues facing golf in the 21st century.  The equipment issues began with David B. Fay and continued through Mike Davis.

 

I generally agree, but.....  The groove rule change didn't ban Square Grooves.  

The anchoring ban is something I find ludicrous, personally.  FWIW, I never have anchored my putter in any way.

I still think tee game could be addressed by reducing max MOI.  It would bring a bit more skill back to the tee game, instead of everyone wailing away with 5000+ MOI clubheads.

Edited September 28, 2020 by NRJyzr

[sixcat]

13 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I generally agree, but.....  The groove rule change didn't ban Square Grooves.  

The anchoring ban is something I find ludicrous, personally.  FWIW, I never have anchored my putter in any way.

I still think tee game could be addressed by reducing max MOI.  It would bring a bit more skill back to the tee game, instead of everyone wailing away with 5000+ MOI clubheads.

Technically no, square grooves weren't banned.  But all groves must now be uniform in spacing, shape, and tilt while having a .01* radius to the base of each groove.  By definition, adding radius to anything no longer qualifies that thing as being "square".  Semantics, I suppose! 

I couldn't care less about anchoring either.  But if it's going to be a rule, enforce it uniformly.  Then again, I suppose we can say the same thing about pace of play on Tour.

Driver heads are way too big!  I haven't looked at the calculations done by others but, at a minimum, cutting the driver head size in half is a start.

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, sixcat said:

Technically no, square grooves weren't banned.  But all groves must now be uniform in spacing, shape, and tilt while having a .01* radius to the base of each groove.  By definition, adding radius to anything no longer qualifies that thing as being "square".  Semantics, I suppose! 

I couldn't care less about anchoring either.  But if it's going to be a rule, enforce it uniformly.  Then again, I suppose we can say the same thing about pace of play on Tour.

Driver heads are way too big!  I haven't looked at the calculations done by others but, at a minimum, cutting the driver head size in half is a start.

Didn't Mike Davis change the grooves because the USGA didn't want the pros to play a bomb and gouge game from the rough??   

[NRJyzr]

3 hours ago, sixcat said:

Technically no, square grooves weren't banned.  But all groves must now be uniform in spacing, shape, and tilt while having a .01* radius to the base of each groove.  By definition, adding radius to anything no longer qualifies that thing as being "square".  Semantics, I suppose! 

I couldn't care less about anchoring either.  But if it's going to be a rule, enforce it uniformly.  Then again, I suppose we can say the same thing about pace of play on Tour.

Driver heads are way too big!  I haven't looked at the calculations done by others but, at a minimum, cutting the driver head size in half is a start.

The reason I focus on MOI instead of driver size is the reaction to the SLDR.  Most pros wouldn't play it on Tour, because they couldn't control it.  It was 460cc, but the MOI ranged from 3300ish to 3500ish.  Keep MOI in that range, or somewhat lower if you prefer, and suddenly the ball starts moving a bit more laterally. 

And such is re-introduced the tee game skill that Sir Nick has referenced in the Twitterverse.

Size might decrease because there are limitations in 460cc drivers at that level of MOI, but it isn't a necessity.  <shrug>

With apologies for repeating myself, I've posted something along these lines in a few places   

[sixcat]

4 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Didn't Mike Davis change the grooves because the USGA didn't want the pros to play a bomb and gouge game from the rough??   

How has that worked out?  

[sixcat]

3 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

The reason I focus on MOI instead of driver size is the reaction to the SLDR.  Most pros wouldn't play it on Tour, because they couldn't control it.  It was 460cc, but the MOI ranged from 3300ish to 3500ish.  Keep MOI in that range, or somewhat lower if you prefer, and suddenly the ball starts moving a bit more laterally. 

And such is re-introduced the tee game skill that Sir Nick has referenced in the Twitterverse.

Size might decrease because there are limitations in 460cc drivers at that level of MOI, but it isn't a necessity.  <shrug>

With apologies for repeating myself, I've posted something along these lines in a few places   

I think we are somewhat on the same page.  The driver should not be the easiest club in the bag to hit.