Graphite to steel for Iron shafts?

[beelzeberto]

I'm currently playing Recoil F4's with smacwrap, looking at changing the shafts in my irons. While I like the shafts and how they feel, I have no consistency in how my shot plays in relation to how much it draws. My draw is either a nice "normal" to baby draw, or its a power draw and goes offline by quite a bit while not being as drastic as a hook.

My driver speed is 105-115mph depending on how much I get after it (anywhere from a 250-270 carry using a GC2/Quad for measurement), 7 iron is 170-180 yards. I believe I have an average tempo

What say you MGS? Recommend me a shaft to play with? Do I need a heavier shaft? Stiffer profile?

 

[cnosil]

12 minutes ago, beelzeberto said:

I'm currently playing Recoil F4's with smacwrap, looking at changing the shafts in my irons. While I like the shafts and how they feel, I have no consistency in how my shot plays in relation to how much it draws. My draw is either a nice "normal" to baby draw, or its a power draw and goes offline by quite a bit while not being as drastic as a hook.

My driver speed is 105-115mph depending on how much I get after it (anywhere from a 250-270 carry using a GC2/Quad for measurement), 7 iron is 170-180 yards. I believe I have an average tempo

What say you MGS? Recommend me a shaft to play with? Do I need a heavier shaft? Stiffer profile?

 

I like KBS Tours with swing speed in the middle of your; however,  someone else will like Project X, and someone else will like Nippon.  Lots of good shaft with lots of different profiles.   The profile is important as it works with how you actually swing and load/unload the shaft.  

What is your dispersion width/depth width with say your 7 iron and what do you expect it to be?

 

[beelzeberto]

16 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I like KBS Tours with swing speed in the middle of your; however,  someone else will like Project X, and someone else will like Nippon.  Lots of good shaft with lots of different profiles.   The profile is important as it works with how you actually swing and load/unload the shaft.  

What is your dispersion width/depth width with say your 7 iron and what do you expect it to be?

 

I don't really know what a realistic idea of dispersion is, I mean I have an idea that I would like to have a consistent 10-15 yard width window from start line. I don't know if that's realistic or if I'm overestimating my idea. Like If I'm aiming five yards right of the pin I would like to be able to stay within 10 yards left, consistently if I overcook it a tad, instead of going 20-30 yards left. I don't know if the shafts I'm playing are too light or not stiff enough, if it it's just general mechanics.

I already take lessons and have made improvements to my swing in general movement, mechanics, and repeatability.

Edited September 19, 2020 by beelzeberto

[Chip Strokes]

30 minutes ago, beelzeberto said:

I already take lessons and have made improvements to my swing in general movement, mechanics, and repeatability.

asking your coach for a few suggestions seems like a great place to start then. he has a better feel than anyone for how you load the shaft and what profiles are going to work best for your swing. 

not saying everyone here doesn’t want to help - they do and they’ll make great suggestions - but without seeing your swing and having that feedback they’re just educated guesses. 

[beelzeberto]

2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

asking your coach for a few suggestions seems like a great place to start then. he has a better feel than anyone for how you load the shaft and what profiles are going to work best for your swing. 

not saying everyone here doesn’t want to help - they do and they’ll make great suggestions - but without seeing your swing and having that feedback they’re just educated guesses. 

Fair point. We spend more time on the driver as that's the bain of my golf existence, and made a change on shaft and he put me in a 70 X Flex shaft, that's why I was curious about the lightness of the iron shafts and if that is why I was having a larger dispersion pattern.

[Chip Strokes]

3 minutes ago, beelzeberto said:

Fair point. We spend more time on the driver as that's the bain of my golf existence, and made a change on shaft and he put me in a 70 X Flex shaft, that's why I was curious about the lightness of the iron shafts and if that is why I was having a larger dispersion pattern.

those damn drivers. i know that feeling all too well.

it’s a valid question for sure, and i’m sure one he’d be happy to address with you. 

[chisag]

1 hour ago, beelzeberto said:

I'm currently playing Recoil F4's with smacwrap, looking at changing the shafts in my irons. While I like the shafts and how they feel, I have no consistency in how my shot plays in relation to how much it draws. My draw is either a nice "normal" to baby draw, or its a power draw and goes offline by quite a bit while not being as drastic as a hook.

My driver speed is 105-115mph depending on how much I get after it (anywhere from a 250-270 carry using a GC2/Quad for measurement), 7 iron is 170-180 yards. I believe I have an average tempo

What say you MGS? Recommend me a shaft to play with? Do I need a heavier shaft? Stiffer profile?

 

 

... Which Recoil shafts are you playing? F4 is the flex but I am guessing you are playing the 780's. At 105-115 swing speed, 3.5* of torque is a lot if you also swing your irons corespondingly as fast as your driver. Torque is not an end all be all number these days as it is measured differently by different OEM's and does not always take design into account, like a stiffer butt or mid section combined with a softer tip that can play stiffer than the torque would indicate. But it is at least a good general guideline with iron shafts. And 86gms is very light for your swing speed. I am more in the 100 mph or slightly less and I cannot hit 85gm shafts in my irons as I lose my tempo and dispersion suffers. 95gm' is as low as I can go and the KK Tini 105's seem to be perfect for my tempo, distance and dispersion. I also play Recoil 110 in my wedges.

... There are different ways to swing fast and if you have a very deliberate and smooth tempo you might be able to get away with F4 in Recoil but F5's would seem to be a better fit, at least on paper.  If you love the feel of Recoils, I would recommend demoing the 110's in F5. Recoil Prototypes would be an excellent choice but they are very expensive. And at your swing speed you may want to demo the Steelfiber 110's in stiff flex which plays more like an x flex when compared to other graphite offerings. I am a huge believer in graphite iron shafts as they are better in every way to a comparable steel shaft. Not saying steel is a bad choice but comparing apples to apples for similar performance, the graphite will have better feel and is easier on your body. 

... These are just blind suggestions to demo but I think they are a good place to start. Obviously going to a qualified fitter will answer your questions much better than my educated guesses. 

[beelzeberto]

10 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Which Recoil shafts are you playing? F4 is the flex but I am guessing you are playing the 780's. At 105-115 swing speed, 3.5* of torque is a lot if you also swing your irons corespondingly as fast as your driver. Torque is not an end all be all number these days as it is measured differently by different OEM's and does not always take design into account, like a stiffer butt or mid section combined with a softer tip that can play stiffer than the torque would indicate. But it is at least a good general guideline with iron shafts. And 86gms is very light for your swing speed. I am more in the 100 mph or slightly less and I cannot hit 85gm shafts in my irons as I lose my tempo and dispersion suffers. 95gm' is as low as I can go and the KK Tini 105's seem to be perfect for my tempo, distance and dispersion. I also play Recoil 110 in my wedges.

... There are different ways to swing fast and if you have a very deliberate and smooth tempo you might be able to get away with F4 in Recoil but F5's would seem to be a better fit, at least on paper.  If you love the feel of Recoils, I would recommend demoing the 110's in F5. Recoil Prototypes would be an excellent choice but they are very expensive. And at your swing speed you may want to demo the Steelfiber 110's in stiff flex which plays more like an x flex when compared to other graphite offerings. I am a huge believer in graphite iron shafts as they are better in every way to a comparable steel shaft. Not saying steel is a bad choice but comparing apples to apples for similar performance, the graphite will have better feel and is easier on your body. 

... These are just blind suggestions to demo but I think they are a good place to start. Obviously going to a qualified fitter will answer your questions much better than my educated guesses. 

Yes sorry, they are the 780's. I do see a lot of love for the steelfibers but I thought they were a lighter shaft as well.

Thanks for the information! I'll see if there are any fitters around here that have them.

I was fit in December of 2019 and put in DGS300's but that was before I started lessons this year and my swing wasn't the best and my flight was erratic.

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, beelzeberto said:

Yes sorry, they are the 780's. I do see a lot of love for the steelfibers but I thought they were a lighter shaft as well.

Thanks for the information! I'll see if there are any fitters around here that have them.

I was fit in December of 2019 and put in DGS300's but that was before I started lessons this year and my swing wasn't the best and my flight was erratic.

... Steelfiber shafts are available in 125gms as well so very similar in performance and weight compared to DGS300's. There are just so many great heavier graphite iron shaft options out there right now. Good luck in your search. 

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, beelzeberto said:

I don't really know what a realistic idea of dispersion is, I mean I have an idea that I would like to have a consistent 10-15 yard width window from start line. I don't know if that's realistic or if I'm overestimating my idea. Like If I'm aiming five yards right of the pin I would like to be able to stay within 10 yards left, consistently if I overcook it a tad, instead of going 20-30 yards left. I don't know if the shafts I'm playing are too light or not stiff enough, if it it's just general mechanics.

I already take lessons and have made improvements to my swing in general movement, mechanics, and repeatability.

Based on you desire to have a 15 yard wide dispersion pattern, your expectations may be a bit high.   Watched a course management video where a PGA pro hit 7 irons standing in the same spot and had a distribution about 30 yard wide.  They have a dispersion of about 60 yards for driver.  We all hit balls left and right of the target and can hit any one of those shots at any time.   

Not saying you don't need new shafts.  Based on your post of being fit for 130g dynamic golds,  I would also say steelfiber would be a good option to research.  

[beelzeberto]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

... Steelfiber shafts are available in 125gms as well so very similar in performance and weight compared to DGS300's. There are just so many great heavier graphite iron shaft options out there right now. Good luck in your search. 

I'm gonna search for a single just to put in a head and play around with.

[beelzeberto]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Based on you desire to have a 15 yard wide dispersion pattern, your expectations may be a bit high.   Watched a course management video where a PGA pro hit 7 irons standing in the same spot and had a distribution about 30 yard wide.  They have a dispersion of about 60 yards for driver.  We all hit balls left and right of the target and can hit any one of those shots at any time.   

Not saying you don't need new shafts.  Based on your post of being fit for 130g dynamic golds,  I would also say steelfiber would be a good option to research.  

I think my width gauge is a bit skewed, I'm sure what looks like 15 yards to me is actually quite a bit more and what I think is 20-30 is vastly greater lol.

[beelzeberto]

I appreciate the input from you guys. I'll speak with my instructor this week on it.

[csamsh]

Everything goes left???  What's your swingweight?  Got any lead tape?

[beelzeberto]

10 hours ago, csamsh said:

Everything goes left???  What's your swingweight?  Got any lead tape?

I've no idea on what the swing weight is tbh, I don't have a way to measure that I don't think.

I don't know exactly where to put the lead tape as I've read conflicting things about where to put it. Is it high, is it low, is on the bottom, to the heel, etc.