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New Clubs or Lessons?


GolfSpy MPR

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Duration: 00:38:02

It's an age old debate: Is it better to invest in new equipment or golf lessons? We tackle this topic and more on today's NPG.

0:00 - Intro
1:33 - Cavity back wedges over blades?
10:59 - Can rain gear really be worth $1000?
20:35 - New clubs vs swing lessons
35:58 - Harry's English Phrase of the Week
37:05 - Contest winner announcement

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:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
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:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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New and shiny is always the right choice over lessons.

Every internet golfer knows this.

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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Anyone debating lessons or gear needs lessons. You can always improve your form. Even the pros are constantly getting lessons, clubs ain't going to make you better lessons will.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue Sub Zero 9* stiff

Wood: :adams-small: Tight Lies TI 3 wood stiff

Hybrid: :callaway-small: XR 3 19 deg stiff

Irons: :mizuno-small:  JPX 900 Tour std loft/lie

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 52,56,60

Putter: :odyssey-small: #7 Red

Ball: :srixon-small: Q-Star

12.9 Handicap

Comox Valley, B.C. 🇨🇦

 

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Yeah but pros will change clubs faster than even we do. 😏

 

I haven't watched the video but this is one that seems obvious on the surface - lessons but then on second thought perhaps its not.  For example, what if there's no intent to follow through on what's being learned?  Any teacher knows that his or her students are fully capable of negating any lesson that's taught.

 

But if we aren't being asked to think too much on this one it has to be lessons. 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Just now, revkev said:

Yeah but pros will change clubs faster than even we do. 😏

 

I haven't watched the video but this is one that seems obvious on the surface - lessons but then on second thought perhaps its not.  For example, what if there's no intent to follow through on what's being learned?  Any teacher knows that his or her students are fully capable of negating any lesson that's taught.

 

But if we aren't being asked to think too much on this one it has to be lessons. 

This.

While it is an interesting debate, it is only a debate if someone wants to actually put in the work to get better. If they don't have time, money etc to do so then getting lessons won't equal much. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

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 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

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"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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2024 is the year of the short set!

Driver: TaylorMade BRNR 11.5* stiff

Hybrid: PXG 0311 GEN5 19*

Irons: JustGolf Forged Blades (4, 6, 8, PW)

Wedge: 56* Forged Prototype

Putter: PXG Blackjack Center Shaft 34"

Bag: Sunday Golf Loma XL

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I haven't watched yet, but IMO it all depends on the skill level of the golfer.

If you are a 20 to 30 handicap get overall lessons. Then you can properly select the clubs you need to help move forward.

If you are a 10 to 19. Get specific lessons on where you need improvement. Then get  the equipment you need. (Putter wedge, driver, irons)

if you are under a 10  SHOP AWAY!

:titleist-small: Driver, TSi 1 S Flex

:cobra-small: 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex

:cobra-small: 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 

:cobra-small: 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex

:cobra-small: Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap)

:cobra-small: Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60*

:cobra-small: Agera 35"

image.png Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag

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I think Tony said it best. In general if you have 30 year old club/blades, almost anything you buy new will improve your game. But if you have reasonably current tech (less than 10 yo?), new clubs aren't likely to make a huge difference - lessons and a commitment to work at it are probably better money spent.

It's still case by case, most high HI players would benefit from multiple lessons and a commitment to work at it more than an equipment change. A dialed in or very consistent player is more likely to see a benefit from new equipment properly fitted.

It was funny in the end he said, 'you all (audience) need to buy more stuff to support what MGS does, so he (Tony) can pay for more lessons.' Tongue in cheek, and not.

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
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check this out.... pretty illuminating.

 

 

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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For me, and others that can afford it, there doesn't need to be an "OR". You can buy new clubs and get lessons.

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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Symbiotic relationship.  Find a good pro who understands your game through a few lessons and have them make equipment recommendations.  Best case is they can fit you for the correct clubs or can recommend a good fitter.  Did this years ago and went from a high handicapper to a mid handicapper.

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16 minutes ago, theebdk said:

Symbiotic relationship.  Find a good pro who understands your game through a few lessons and have them make equipment recommendations.  Best case is they can fit you for the correct clubs or can recommend a good fitter.  Did this years ago and went from a high handicapper to a mid handicapper.

my swing coach and fitter are from the same shop. my fittings and lessons have been happening concurrently and it’s been a really enjoyable process to keep trying better clubs as my swing evolves because they’re sharing notes and ideas with each other. 

image.png.926c5dbfc594427870bc33c43f290630.pngSIM2 8º | KuroKage XD 70TX 

  image.png.4f15ae5144722103242556b2db6d1033.pngSIM 3W 14º | Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 9TX

image.png.bce9eebd9a20266703b359d88959bbcb.pngSIM2 5W 18º | Fujikura Ventus Black 10X
Titleist logo | Logo gallery, Golf birthday party, Logo designU500 2i | Fujikura Ventus HB Black 10TX
Titleist logo | Logo gallery, Golf birthday party, Logo design T100 4-PW | Dynamic Gold X7
Vokey Design Vector Logo | Free Download - (.SVG   .PNG) format - VTLogo.com SM6 52* SM8 56* SM8 60* | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
SIK Golf Partners with GolfPlus to Host Entry Level Professional Events!  DW | BGT Stability Tour

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Different for all. I am at the point personally where I would like to get some short game lessons. 
equipment has changed my game as well though so it’s a double edged sword but I think everyone needs lessons just depends on specific or general

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:ping-small:  G710 Irons Official Review I :Fuji: MC Shaft & :EVNROLL: V Series Putter Official Review

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WITB:

Weapons of grass destruction (link to WITB)

:ping-small: Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by :Arccos:

:cobra-small: RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X :taylormade-small: SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green

:titleist-small: U505 Driving Iron 17* - Project X HZRDUS Black :cobra-small: SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black

:cobra-small: 2022 King Forged Tec's 4-PW - KBS $ Tape 130 :titelist-small: 48 (SM8), 52 & 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S 

:EVNROLL: ER2VI :titelist-small: PROV1X #19 

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While shiny and new is always fun, I’d go with lessons at this point. The challenge is finding the right pro to give lessons. Is there such a thing as “Buyers Guide” for lessons. I’m new in my area and I’m just wondering where to begin. Chris nailed it in the podcast Golf Digest runs the best articles but as we’ve learned from MGS, I’d question their methodology. 

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☝️+1 ... the commitment to a "coach" is typically a big one and if it doesn't start well...

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

I think Tony said it best. In general if you have 30 year old club/blades, almost anything you buy new will improve your game. But if you have reasonably current tech (less than 10 yo?), new clubs aren't likely to make a huge difference - lessons and a commitment to work at it are probably better money spent.

Well, in spring 2019, I was fitted for irons and changed my 30+ year in the bag PE2's for G410's.  Seeing about a 5 stroke improvement and think it fair to split the gain between the new arrows and simply playing more since retiring.  I had a really bad experience with lessons in my early 20's; pretty significant swing changes that just did not work out. Very well known and competent instructor, and I spent a lot of time trying to make it work.  Big time frustration.

It is my belief that lowering one's handicap, short of near full time commitment to lessons and training, follows an asymptotic curve the lower you go.  Going from 8 to 2 is, for most players, WAY tougher than going from 25 to 15. Once I complete my full bag fitting this winter with a top end fitting facility, I will turn my investments to lessons.  First I want to assure myself I'm playing the best clubs/shafts for me... and I have a gnawing belief I'm not. 

But yes, to Tony's point and as highlighted by the video @GolfSpy Strokershared, lessons are the better investment if you're confident in the sticks your playing.

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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I think the answer, as with most things, is it depends and sometimes people need both.  I am a senior golfer and play with other senior golfers.  I see a number of them have good swings but need lighter clubs because they don't swing as fast as they used to do.  I saw a guy I know in his 80s hit a XXIO driver and gain about 15-20 yards from basically the first drive.  He has lost a good bit of distance just in the few years I have known him and  I cannot imagine him getting the distance from lessons that he got in this club.  Similarly, a good friend in his early 60s just demoed a Callaway Driver with a lighter shaft and hit the ball much better than he was hitting his current driver (a Ping G30).

I bought a Ping Glide 3 sand wedge this summer with 14 degrees of bounce and a graphite shaft and am having much more success out of the rough and in bunkers than I did with my old Volkey with a steel shaft and 8 degrees of bounce.  I esp. think the combination of more bounce and a lighter shaft is helping me out of the very thick rough we have at my club.

But, when I was having trouble driving the ball straight earlier this year I took a couple of lessons from the pro I typically get lessons from rather than buy a new driver to "fix" the problem.  I may buy a new driver (I have demoed a few at my club) but only now after I have straightened out my swing.

So, as I said I think it depends.

Edited by HAC
  • :taylormade-small: Sim 2 Driver Fujikura Ventus Blue 6R shaft
  • :taylormade-small:Sim 2 5 wood Fujikura Ventus Blue 5R shaft
  •  th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0311 Gen 5 Seven Wood Project X Cypher 50 5.5 shaft set to flat with weights set to fade.
  • :titelist-small: H818 Hybrid 25 degrees Tensei ck Series 60 HY regular flex shafts at C4 setting (flat for lefties)
  • :titelist-small: 718 AP1 irons 6-gap Tensei ck Series AMC IR regular flex bent two degrees flat
  • :vokey-small: SM 7 Wedge 58 degrees M grind with 8 bounce Steel shafts wedge flex bent 2 degrees flat
  • :ping-small: Glide 3 52.12 and 56.14 with  Alta CB Red Regular Flex shaft bent 2 degrees flat
  • Go back and forth between :cameron-small: Select Newport 2 putter 34 inch length and :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne putter 33 inch length
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On 9/21/2020 at 2:11 PM, StrawberryShortCake said:

Anyone debating lessons or gear needs lessons. You can always improve your form. Even the pros are constantly getting lessons, clubs ain't going to make you better lessons will.

All true, but............ pros can well afford lessons. Clubs don't make you better at golf, but they make feel better  because they are new and they are your's...lol.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I used to think clubs first over lessons. I moved from my Ping G5 to i500/blueprint combo set which really forced me to improve my ball striking or I am hitting a 7 iron 130 yards hahah! I then got help from a friend who pointed me in the right direction to a local pro who helped me dial in the game. I definitely would recommend not going the route I chose. Dial in your swing with your old clubs and when you feel pretty consistent then go out and get fitted for the new set. You'll have the confidence knowing you'll be able to game your new set of irons and get the satisfaction of shiny new sticks! Hope this helps! 

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would start with the lessons. Your Pro can fix a lot of swing issues for far less than the cost of new clubs. Once the swing is consistent, go get properly fitted for your new clubs.

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:titelist-small: TSi3 15 / 18.0 GD DI-6X

:titelist-small: TSi3H 20° (set for 22)

:titelist-small: CNCPT 5i-48°

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/21/2020 at 11:27 AM, russtopherb said:

New and shiny is always the right choice over lessons.

Every internet golfer knows this.


Exactly so.  It is *always* the club's fault.  ALWAYS.
 

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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27 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:


Exactly so.  It is *always* the club's fault.  ALWAYS.
 

Absolutely not true.  Good shots are MY fault, bad shots are caused by the clubs!

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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Easy....buy new clubs, take lessons and find out you need new clubs because your bad swing is now better, buy new clubs...WIN! WIN! 😄  

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

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On 10/27/2020 at 1:18 PM, 19hole said:

I would start with the lessons. Your Pro can fix a lot of swing issues for far less than the cost of new clubs. Once the swing is consistent, go get properly fitted for your new clubs.

This 100%. No equipment will fix a bad swing. I know guys who use 10-15 year old clubs that are under 5 handicap.

I'm a hockey player playing golf today.
TSR3, Ventus Blue Velocore 7X
JPX 921 Tour Irons
Evnroll EV5.1
ProV1x

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On 10/27/2020 at 1:18 PM, 19hole said:

I would start with the lessons. Your Pro can fix a lot of swing issues for far less than the cost of new clubs. Once the swing is consistent, go get properly fitted for your new clubs.

+100. The four lowest HI players in our league (of 120+ players) all use older clubs, and they don't even take particularly good care of them. The lowest HI player is using 20 yo Mizuno blades, and hits the crap out of the ball - because he has a consistent swing, all four of them have beautiful swings. All four of them use balls they find exclusively (top tier tour makes/models - and they leave the rest), they wouldn't even spring for buying new balls...

Sure we should all get fit once in a while, but going from one generation to the next isn't going to improve your scoring - unless you're one of the unlucky few who were grossly misfit to begin with. Any Golf Galaxy can tell you if you've been grossly misfit - for free.

And BONUS - If you take lessons from a pro, he/she can probably tell you if you your current clubs are grossly misfit.

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  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
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5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Absolutely not true.  Good shots are MY fault, bad shots are caused by the clubs!

It's the "fault" in the sentence.  To me, fault implies an unwelcome outcome. 

Obviously, good shots are a result of your talent and skill, and stupendous resolve.

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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I guarantee if you gave Tiger, Bryson, Justin, Brooks, really anybody on tour your exact same clubs they would still shoot a 68 or lower at your course. Having just upgraded my 20+year old equipment, it has certainly helped my game, but it just means I can hit the ball further into the woods on those errant shots 😄

However, this brings up another question I'm sure the OP has - how do you find a good coach? After your first Lesson you'll see improvement with just about anybody, but how can you tell if you've found a good coach that you would want to keep for awhile? It's not like there are amazon reviews for these guys/gals!

In my :ping-small: Hoofer:

:ping-small: G410 LST 10.5* - Kai'Li White 60 X-flex

:nike-small: VRS Covert 3W 15* - Kuro Kage 65 S-flex

  :titelist-small:  T200 4-GW, DG X100 Tour Issue - Tester

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 Stealth 54.12 SS & 58.10 SS

:ping-small:  Zing 2 LW - 60*

:ping-small:  Anser 2

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