Getoffmylawn's Need for Speed, AND LOWER SCORES!

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

Fired up after yesterday’s promising returns; upped the weights on a few lifts.  SuperSpeed Level 3 followed by:

Dumbbell Curls - 55s, reps at 8, 3, 2, 1

Pinwheel Curls - 45s, reps at 11, 4, 3, 2

Box Jumps - 3 x 6

Seated Calf Raise - 105, 12 reps

Bulgarian Split Squat - 60s, straight set of 12, 35s widowmaker to 20

Stiff-Legged Deadlift - 205, 12 repa

I also incorporated 3 sets of 6 med ball throws, each side, with a 10 pound ball and max effort.

MOTIVATED!

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

Hit the scale at 194 yesterday.  I've been (mostly) pretty good about eating clean, but I haven't been able to resist some of the winter lagers that are available now.  This Thursday will also obviously be a calorie overload as well, but overall I'm reasonably pleased with the pace of mass gains.

SuperSpeed Level 3 today, followed by:

Dumbbell Incline Press - 75s, reps at 9, 2, 1, 1

Arnold Presses - 55s, reps at 10, 3, 1

Tricep Pressdowns - 160, reps at 12, 5, 3, 1

Close-grip Chins - 12, 2, 1, 1

Trap Bar Deadlifts - 380, 2 sets of 5

Yeah, added 30 more pounds to the deadlift today and I'll have to stay there a few more times...not as many reps as I'd like.  Still, 400 pounds is not far off.

[BMart519 1,410]

Dude, 5x5 deadlifts is all you need for strength progression. 6-8 reps absolute max. Not worth the risk if your technique starts breaking down with heavy weights. Anything over 6 reps and you are out of the strength range and trending towards hypertrophy and endurance. 

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

14 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Dude, 5x5 deadlifts is all you need for strength progression. 6-8 reps absolute max. Not worth the risk if your technique starts breaking down with heavy weights. Anything over 6 reps and you are out of the strength range and trending towards hypertrophy and endurance. 

I promise you my technique is not breaking down; I know enough to know the need for proper form.  My point was that 5 reps at that weight meant I'm not ready to try 400 for any reasonable amount of reps.

[edingc 12,741]

46 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I promise you my technique is not breaking down; I know enough to know the need for proper form.  My point was that 5 reps at that weight meant I'm not ready to try 400 for any reasonable amount of reps.

Since you, @Chip Strokes and @BMart519 have more background in this than I do - what type of program would you three recommend with the goal of adding the maximum amount of additional weight (i.e. just strength and not aesthetics) to squat / deadlift / bench? I've done straight linear progression in the past and stalled out quickly, had better luck with linear/undulating periodization (which is what I'm still doing now), but I'm still no where near as strong as I'd like to be. 

Admittedly, the longest I've really gone with a program is four-ish months, and I'm feel like I'm forever stuck in purgatory trying to add strength while losing fat/weight. I've added quite a bit of strength since last December, but with it came 10+ pounds of "fluff." As someone who used to be quite overweight seeing the scale creep up is very hard mentally. While I can see more muscle in the mirror, there is obviously more fat, too.

I'm realistically able to train four days a week for about 45 minutes to an hour. Ideally, this is combo'ed with some flexibility work and SuperSpeed programs. At home have a squat rack, Olympic bar and 295 pounds of plates, plus a set of PowerBlocks that go up to 75 pounds each, so I'm pretty much a full gym at this point...

Don't want to hijack this thread but since the topic is weightlifting I was curious for some thoughts/opinions.

[Chip Strokes 6,755]

@edingc to keep my answer short - you can’t go wrong with the Wendler 5-3-1 program. 

it’s been around forever, you can find endless resources for it for free online, and it’s designed for the big 3 lifts: squat, bench, deadlift. 

body composition (your muscle vs fluff conundrum) will always be more greatly affected by your work in the kitchen than what you do in the gym, but with that said, as you increase lean muscle mass your body will burn fat more effectively. 

four months on a program is dipping your toe, at best. check out wendler. if you commit, you’re almost guaranteed results. 

[ncwoz 2,834]

1 hour ago, edingc said:

Since you, @Chip Strokes and @BMart519 have more background in this than I do - what type of program would you three recommend with the goal of adding the maximum amount of additional weight (i.e. just strength and not aesthetics) to squat / deadlift / bench? I've done straight linear progression in the past and stalled out quickly, had better luck with linear/undulating periodization (which is what I'm still doing now), but I'm still no where near as strong as I'd like to be. 

Admittedly, the longest I've really gone with a program is four-ish months, and I'm feel like I'm forever stuck in purgatory trying to add strength while losing fat/weight. I've added quite a bit of strength since last December, but with it came 10+ pounds of "fluff." As someone who used to be quite overweight seeing the scale creep up is very hard mentally. While I can see more muscle in the mirror, there is obviously more fat, too.

I'm realistically able to train four days a week for about 45 minutes to an hour. Ideally, this is combo'ed with some flexibility work and SuperSpeed programs. At home have a squat rack, Olympic bar and 295 pounds of plates, plus a set of PowerBlocks that go up to 75 pounds each, so I'm pretty much a full gym at this point...

Don't want to hijack this thread but since the topic is weightlifting I was curious for some thoughts/opinions.

I don't know the particulars of your programming, but to my understanding everyone's going to hit a point where a linear progression isn't going to "work" anymore. I know Rippetoe (Starting Strength) is somewhat controversial, but he has a lot of really good information. Two guys split off from Starting Strength to create "Barbell Medicine", and I think they take a little more of a scientific approach, and might be more worth your time. My guess is you might have gotten to a spot where a straight linear progression is just too simple for you, and you probably need the complexity in workouts, possibly what the undulating periodization is giving you.

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

2 hours ago, edingc said:

Since you, @Chip Strokes and @BMart519 have more background in this than I do - what type of program would you three recommend with the goal of adding the maximum amount of additional weight (i.e. just strength and not aesthetics) to squat / deadlift / bench? I've done straight linear progression in the past and stalled out quickly, had better luck with linear/undulating periodization (which is what I'm still doing now), but I'm still no where near as strong as I'd like to be. 

Admittedly, the longest I've really gone with a program is four-ish months, and I'm feel like I'm forever stuck in purgatory trying to add strength while losing fat/weight. I've added quite a bit of strength since last December, but with it came 10+ pounds of "fluff." As someone who used to be quite overweight seeing the scale creep up is very hard mentally. While I can see more muscle in the mirror, there is obviously more fat, too.

I'm realistically able to train four days a week for about 45 minutes to an hour. Ideally, this is combo'ed with some flexibility work and SuperSpeed programs. At home have a squat rack, Olympic bar and 295 pounds of plates, plus a set of PowerBlocks that go up to 75 pounds each, so I'm pretty much a full gym at this point...

Don't want to hijack this thread but since the topic is weightlifting I was curious for some thoughts/opinions.

No hijacking concerns at all; I'm excited for the dialog.  @BMart519seems to be getting tired of my posts anyway!  

@Chip Strokesbeat me to it, but the 5-3-1 method is pretty much the Holy Grail for what you're trying to do.

I would offer that trying to add size/strength and simultaneously losing fat is like trying to break up with your girlfriend and then date her roommate...can't be done.  At least that's my cynical view,  unless you have insane genetics or a little bit of "help" in a bottle.  But as has already been mentioned, it actually gets easier to lean down/stay lean the more muscle you gain.

I would highly recommend a nutrition plan that allows you to at least understand your total calorie needs, grams of protein per day, etc.  I'm still calorie counting daily but I realize that's not for everybody.  Ultimately, controlling body fat while gaining mass and strength has far more to do with diet than training.

By all means, keep asking questions if I (we) haven't addressed something.

[Chip Strokes 6,755]

3 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I would offer that trying to add size/strength and simultaneously losing fat is like trying to break up with your girlfriend and then date her roommate...can't be done. 

or her sister...don't ask me how i know.

[edingc 12,741]

Thank you all for the comments. 5/3/1 is something I've looked at in the past but not tried. Definitely looks like it would fit my schedule. I had been doing wonderfully on Nuckols' "28 Programs" from December to April, but then golf season started and I neglected lifting throughout the summer. 

No worries on the nutrition side of things - I'm good at counting calories and have so for a long time. Maybe not as disciplined as some, but I can be effective. Just need to be better about not making exercise an excuse to eat/drink too many.

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

2 minutes ago, edingc said:

Just need to be better about not making exercise an excuse to eat/drink too many.

THAT is my biggest challenge as well, especially when I'm in a bulking phase...easy to rationalize.  I don't eat too much, but then the neighbor offers me a brew, and it'd be rude to turn that down!

[Chip Strokes 6,755]

7 minutes ago, edingc said:

Just need to be better about not making exercise an excuse to eat/drink too many.

 

3 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

THAT is my biggest challenge as well, especially when I'm in a bulking phase...easy to rationalize.  I don't eat too much, but then the neighbor offers me a brew, and it'd be rude to turn that down!

i rarely drink, but i eat like i've got two as*holes

i've actually been incredibly lazy for the last few months.  i went full stop on training and caring about my diet at all back at the beginning of august.  the last week or so i've been getting out to the garage to get myself moving again.  actually just called a buddy of mine this morning to get him to program for me for a little while so i can just go workout without worrying about figuring out what to do.  time to get my ass back in shape.

[Lacassem 17,297]

13 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

 

i rarely drink, but i eat like i've got two as*holes

i've actually been incredibly lazy for the last few months.  i went full stop on training and caring about my diet at all back at the beginning of august.  the last week or so i've been getting out to the garage to get myself moving again.  actually just called a buddy of mine this morning to get him to program for me for a little while so i can just go workout without worrying about figuring out what to do.  time to get my ass back in shape.

This is where I was at. My thread I think is very much the opposite of this. I eat like I am still in the military and need to cut back.

I have been following this thread and once I get where I want to be weight wise and when COVID is not as much of a facility nightmare I will be back in the gym and will be getting back to alot of the stuff in here. Good stuff all.

[BMart519 1,410]

3 hours ago, edingc said:

Since you, @Chip Strokes and @BMart519 have more background in this than I do - what type of program would you three recommend with the goal of adding the maximum amount of additional weight (i.e. just strength and not aesthetics) to squat / deadlift / bench? I've done straight linear progression in the past and stalled out quickly, had better luck with linear/undulating periodization (which is what I'm still doing now), but I'm still no where near as strong as I'd like to be. 

Don't want to hijack this thread but since the topic is weightlifting I was curious for some thoughts/opinions.

I have not tried the 5-3-1 personally, but I think it is something everyone should do at least once, there are psychological benefits to working near your 1RM. The important thing to consider is that you have a good equipment setup so when you start working in the 90-95% 1RM range that you are safe and confident. You don't want any subconscious doubts working at those loads where you may compensate by restricting your range of motion. 

Kudos to you for dedicating 4 days a week. I'm 35 now and started lifting in my early 20's. It wasn't until my early 30's that I learned what the proper dosing was for my body to reduce burnout/overtraining and fatigue (and mostly use my time more efficiently). My focus has shifted to "minimum effective dose" - this winter my plan is to lift once/week, maybe twice on occasion, Superspeed once/week, and mobility/posture work most days. I have an SC200 launch monitor and hit 10-40 balls 5 days per week in my garage. 

I only need 1 lifting session per week to maintain body composition (6'2" 190-200lbs) with a focus on compound moves and hitting most major muscle groups. At 1 or 2 sessions per week, I can progress linearly up to adequate strength levels. Lifting 3/4 days with different splits leaves me sore and I don't have time to travel to the gym with a 2 year old at home while keeping the wife happy . My wife and I are looking to get a bench and squat rack in the basement with how this pandemic is going... 

Someone mentioned Mark Rippetoe and Starting Strength, he's a bit crude but he knows his stuff. He put a 20 minute video on Youtube demonstrating Deadlift technique and I agree with his principal if you can properly deadlift heavy loads you are going to be able to perform well in most athletic moves (especially golf). I stick to a basic 5x5 for long periods built mostly on Squat/DL/Bench or Row/DL/Shoulder Press and add in the a random exercise here or there like pulldowns or dips. (I'm fine if I fail at 3-4 reps as its in the middle of the "strength zone" for rep ranges and just means I'll hit 5 next week). 

The DL focus  provided nice gains last winter until COVID hit and the gyms closed... I was getting up to 140 MPH ball speed on a launch monitor with my hybrid and my Shot Scope P-Avg with the club was 246 yds on the season. (Disclaimer: Calgary is dry/firm conditions and we are 3000+ ft elevation).

If you have been training for a long time, look at different methods of progressive loading to add strength - attaching resistance bands or chains to the barbell, so they add no load at the bottom of range of motion. You are strongest at the end of your range of motion adding 5-10% load at this point is another technique to help push through plateaus. Otherwise, just start adding in stuff Mike from Fit for Golf posts on twitter - like jump squats or deadlifts. It's not going to provide much boost to your 1RM, but the more reps you get firing the whole posterior chain in an explosive manner is going to pay dividends in terms of golf swing speed by improving the efficiency there and rate of force development. 

 

[RickyBobby_PR 10,062]

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[edingc 12,741]

Lots of good information in here. Thanks @BMart519 for the really detailed response. I'm going to give 5/3/1 a go. Looking at the scheduling, I like where it puts me in six months. Like @Chip Strokes implied, I really just need to find a program and stick with it for a while (very guilty of f***arounditis...).

Currently sitting at 5'11", 180-ish. Last winter doing Fit for Golf's offseason program and some running I got down to 158 before I bought the rack and weights and then kind of fell off the wagon when lockdowns eased in April. Realistically, I'd love to be 165-175 with a bit more muscle than I have now. I loathe running but it was what I had available to me during lunchtime at work in the winter, not something I really want to do again.

22 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Kudos to you for dedicating 4 days a week. I'm 35 now and started lifting in my early 20's. It wasn't until my early 30's that I learned what the proper dosing was for my body to reduce burnout/overtraining and fatigue (and mostly use my time more efficiently). My focus has shifted to "minimum effective dose" - this winter my plan is to lift once/week, maybe twice on occasion, Superspeed once/week, and mobility/posture work most days. I have an SC200 launch monitor and hit 10-40 balls 5 days per week in my garage. 

I've been training on/off for the past 10 years but moving around the country during that time made it difficult to stick with a repeatable program/gym access, and now I have no excuse. I'd love to get to the "minimum effective dose" someday, but I have a lot of ground to make up as I'm only a few years behind you. I hit balls once per week if I'm lucky in the winter and am hoping to do SuperSpeed twice per week just to keep my progress there.

Speed for me is as much a function of technique as it is raw strength (when swinging well I can get ball speeds into the 130s with a six iron), but obviously any increase is welcome. Really, I just want to set myself up to be as healthy as possible as I'm not getting any younger.

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

Realized this morning that I maybe haven't pushed myself as hard as I could have on some of the leg exercises in particular...kind of a common problem since it can take some guts to go for one more given the vulnerable-feeling positions you can find yourself in.  More on that in a minute...

This morning was SuperSpeed ASD 1, then...

Barbell Curls - 100, reps at 13, 4, 3, 2

Hammer Curls - 55s, reps at 8, 3, 1, 1

Box Jumps - 3 sets of 5

Leg Press Calves - 200, 12 reps

Singe-Leg Deadlifts - 50s, 2 sets of 10

Leg Press - 600 for a straight set of 12, 450 for a 20-rep widowmaker

So I just kind of resolved that I should be putting more effort into the leg work and maybe wasn't pushing myself hard enough, so this represents a 150 pound jump from the last time out.  I'm actually kind of disappointed at the wasted reps of previous workouts.

Now comes a decision, do I take a day off on Friday given the holiday, or stick to it, cuz somewhere out there someone else is training and if I don't then they're getting better than me!  

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

Stepped on the scale at 193 this morning.  I’m the only guy I know who can stop counting calories, skip a workout, go apeshit on Thanksgiving Day, and freakin’ lose weight...

[Getoffmylawn 5,715]

Happy to get back on the horse today!

SuperSpeed Level 3, then a B2 workout.

Preacher Curls - 105, reps at 13, 4, 3, 2

Reverse Grip EZ Curls - 85, reps at 14, 5, 4, 2

Box Jumps - 3 x 6

Med Ball Throws - 3 x 6 (10 pound ball)

Seated Calf Raise - 100, 12 reps

Lying Leg Curl - 130, reps at 11, 4, 3, 1

Squats - 275 for straight set of 12 reps, 185 for a 20 rep widowmaker

Next time I get to this workout it's going to be time to go to a 315 squat, which I'm not looking forward to.  Maybe I'll lose my man card for saying this, but squats are intimidating/borderline scary for me, just because really pushing yourself with a heavy enough load, and then taking the rep to the proper depth just feels kinda vulnerable and maybe even dangerous.  More of a mental thing for me I'm sure.

[ncwoz 2,834]

6 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Next time I get to this workout it's going to be time to go to a 315 squat, which I'm not looking forward to.  Maybe I'll lose my man card for saying this, but squats are intimidating/borderline scary for me, just because really pushing yourself with a heavy enough load, and then taking the rep to the proper depth just feels kinda vulnerable and maybe even dangerous.  More of a mental thing for me I'm sure.

I get that. I have no problem taking bench/overhead presses or deadlifts to fail, but for some reason failing a squat is intimidating for me too. Also, squatting really heavy weights just hurts more haha.