Getoffmylawn's Need for Speed & Lower Scores

[Getoffmylawn]

So maybe this is a bit odd of me, but the gym was remarkably empty yesterday morning, so I felt a lot less stupid about taking a video of a deadlift set.  Here it is.  In the event @BMart519or maybe @Chip Strokesin particular, or anyone, have some form critiques please do share.

This was the first of two sets of five, and you can see between the fourth and fifth rep I had to "reset" my grip a bit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaHspWzk91E&feature=youtu.be

 

[BMart519]

1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

So maybe this is a bit odd of me, but the gym was remarkably empty yesterday morning, so I felt a lot less stupid about taking a video of a deadlift set.  Here it is.  In the event @BMart519or maybe @Chip Strokesin particular, or anyone, have some form critiques please do share.

This was the first of two sets of five, and you can see between the fourth and fifth rep I had to "reset" my grip a bit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaHspWzk91E&feature=youtu.be

 

I am reading Kelly Starrett's - Becoming A Supple Leopard. You can check out his background... The DL technique he discusses in the book emphasizes keeping the lower leg (tib/fib) close to perpendicular to the ground. 

Your form looks excellent, this is a very minor coaching point: on the negative portion of reps 1 and 5 your knees come forward more than the rest of the reps. His cue for this is shooting the hamstrings back to start the lift. 

You can tinker with that on light weight and see how it feels, you knees aren't coming extremely far forward and trap bar has a tendency to bring you more forward without a barbell there and into a hybrid squat/deadlift position. Back and shoulders look great which is key to safe DL with those weights. 

If grip strength is the limiting factor, try to add some forearm strengthening work, those fat grips to fit over a barbell, or anything with a larger diameter grip. If you have Twitter, William Wayland is a great strength coach and has an article showing split stance variants with trap bar DLs. This will allow you to drop the weight but up the load on each individual leg, while not challenging balance. 

[Chip Strokes]

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

So maybe this is a bit odd of me, but the gym was remarkably empty yesterday morning, so I felt a lot less stupid about taking a video of a deadlift set.  Here it is.  In the event @BMart519or maybe @Chip Strokesin particular, or anyone, have some form critiques please do share.

This was the first of two sets of five, and you can see between the fourth and fifth rep I had to "reset" my grip a bit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaHspWzk91E&feature=youtu.be

 

nothing to really critique with your form at all.  trap bar deads, especially using the high handles, are much more of a leg driven, almost squat movement pattern than a conventional deadlift.  you do a great job of keeping your chest upright and driving through your heels to extension.  if i had to nitpick, id say keep your gaze down towards the floor at the beginning of the rep, and bring it up to neutral at the top.  looking straight forward at the bottom of the rep creates overextension in the neck as you go through the lift.  again - that's very nitpicky of me.  

personally, i'm a big fan of bracing for the lift from the top (and that's the way ive always taught the deadlift), but you did a great job of getting into a braced position before the lift so it's not even really worth bringing up.  

[Getoffmylawn]

6 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

I am reading Kelly Starrett's - Becoming A Supple Leopard. You can check out his background... The DL technique he discusses in the book emphasizes keeping the lower leg (tib/fib) close to perpendicular to the ground. 

Your form looks excellent, this is a very minor coaching point: on the negative portion of reps 1 and 5 your knees come forward more than the rest of the reps. His cue for this is shooting the hamstrings back to start the lift. 

You can tinker with that on light weight and see how it feels, you knees aren't coming extremely far forward and trap bar has a tendency to bring you more forward without a barbell there and into a hybrid squat/deadlift position. Back and shoulders look great which is key to safe DL with those weights. 

If grip strength is the limiting factor, try to add some forearm strengthening work, those fat grips to fit over a barbell, or anything with a larger diameter grip. If you have Twitter, William Wayland is a great strength coach and has an article showing split stance variants with trap bar DLs. This will allow you to drop the weight but up the load on each individual leg, while not challenging balance. 

 

2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

nothing to really critique with your form at all.  trap bar deads, especially using the high handles, are much more of a leg driven, almost squat movement pattern than a conventional deadlift.  you do a great job of keeping your chest upright and driving through your heels to extension.  if i had to nitpick, id say keep your gaze down towards the floor at the beginning of the rep, and bring it up to neutral at the top.  looking straight forward at the bottom of the rep creates overextension in the neck as you go through the lift.  again - that's very nitpicky of me.  

personally, i'm a big fan of bracing for the lift from the top (and that's the way ive always taught the deadlift), but you did a great job of getting into a braced position before the lift so it's not even really worth bringing up.  

Thank you both for the feedback; very much appreciated.

[Chip Strokes]

4 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

I am reading Kelly Starrett's - Becoming A Supple Leopard. You can check out his background... The DL technique he discusses in the book emphasizes keeping the lower leg (tib/fib) close to perpendicular to the ground. 

Your form looks excellent, this is a very minor coaching point: on the negative portion of reps 1 and 5 your knees come forward more than the rest of the reps. His cue for this is shooting the hamstrings back to start the lift. 

if he were using a conventional barbell, shin angle and knee position relative to his toes would matter a lot more, and what you said is spot on for that particular lift.

trap bar deads are essentially a squat.  you set up with the hips a lot lower and the chest a lot more vertical, so naturally you're going to get some forward inclination of the shins.  and since the bar doesn't have to travel around your knees, there's nothing wrong with that position from an anatomical or efficiency standpoint.

i'd almost prefer the name of the lift be changed from trap bar deadlift to floor loaded squat, since pretty much any way you choose to compare the two, they are night and day different.

[Chip Strokes]

@Getoffmylawn @BMart519 you can see what i'm talking about in these two pictures.  

conventional deads: hips much higher, shoulders over the toes, much more of a posterior chain driven pulling motion

trap deads: hips back and down, chest vertical, shoulders behind the bar over the middle of the foot, much more of a quad driven push off of the floor

 

[Getoffmylawn]

17 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

@Getoffmylawn @BMart519 you can see what i'm talking about in these two pictures.  

conventional deads: hips much higher, shoulders over the toes, much more of a posterior chain driven pulling motion

trap deads: hips back and down, chest vertical, shoulders behind the bar over the middle of the foot, much more of a quad driven push off of the floor

 

Interesting.  Are you suggesting I'm not programming it correctly if I'm doing it as part of a back workout?  I don't disagree that there is a lot of quad recruitment, but especially at the second half of the ROM back and traps are certainly working hard.

[Chip Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Interesting.  Are you suggesting I'm not programming it correctly if I'm doing it as part of a back workout?  I don't disagree that there is a lot of quad recruitment, but especially at the second half of the ROM back and traps are certainly working hard.

you're still getting back and lat recruitment since they're working to hold and stablize the load you're moving.  

i've just always programmed them based on the primary mover - which is your quads.  i used trap bar deadlifts either to help me break squat plateaus, or as a strength movement between squat cycles.  i'd often strap up and overload the bar just to see where the failure point was.  

none of this is me telling you what to do, just offering my perspective.  you're in the driver's seat here since your body is the one feeling the effects of your training.  if you feel that it's effective on your back days then keep the train rolling!

[Getoffmylawn]

Another solid workout today.  Actually, I overslept so I ended up not getting to the gym until 8:30.  I also took my SuperSpeed sticks into the gym and used them in there, and that was probably a more productive session than the just-woke-up and wearing layers & freezing sessions I've been doing in my garage.

In any event, SuperSpeed Level 4, followed by:

Med Ball Wall Slams - 10 pound ball, 3 x 5

Barbell Curls - 110, reps at 8, 3

Hammer Curls - 60s, reps at 7, 3

Box Jumps - 3 x 5

Standing Cable Anti-Rotations - 50, 3 x 10

Machine Leg Press Calves - 260, 8 reps

Single-Leg Deadlifts - 60s, 2 x 8

Leg Press - 700, 2 x 8

 

[Getoffmylawn]

Today was SuperSpeed Level 4, followed by an A2 workout that kicked my butt.

Med Ball Chest Slams - 10 pound ball, 3 x 5

Machine Chest Press - 210, reps at 5, 2 (I think I'm going to replace this with a Smith the next time around)

Arnold Presses - 60s, reps at 6, 2

Machine Dips - 250, reps at 12, 4

Lat Pulldown - 190, reps at 6, 2

T-Bar Row - 180, reps at 6, 3

Standing Internal Rotations - 20, 3 x 12

Standing External Rotations - 20, 3 x 12

Box Jumps - 3 x 5

 

 

[Getoffmylawn]

I wanted to write another post, separate from my usual workout posts, to bare my soul a bit.  I find myself struggling from a motivation standpoint of late, and overall feel a bit of trepidation over this whole process I've inflicted on myself.

After about a month of this program, I played what turned out to be my last round of the year.  I posted about it here, but on my usual home course I hit several (for me) bombs that reached 300 yards and left me with sometimes more than a club less than I normally would find myself.  I had my playing partners dropping the occasional "wow" and "holy sh!t"...suffice it to say it was extremely motivating, and I try to hold onto that experience as I slog through these winter months.

However, as I also posted about here, my last GolfTec appointment was really disappointing.  I showed up expecting to see a big MPH jump, and saw almost nothing.

Again, I will say that I think personally, I don't perform well in an indoor hitting bay versus being outdoors.  And, trying to go for broke on a few tee shots after your instructor has spent 30 minutes working on a prescribed "fix" with you for something else probably isn't the best formula.  But the experience left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth as it relates to this whole experiment.

One, I recognize that I am making this harder on myself, and likely more inefficient, by not having a radar or monitoring device during the SuperSpeed work,  Two, getting up at 4 am, getting the truck out of the garage, putting an extra layer on, and cranking out SuperSpeed reps in the garage, in the winter, in Nebraska is proving to be quite the slog.

I'm going to stay at it;, I've come too far at this point.  And I'm sure something will fire me up soon enough.  Just struggling a bit at the moment and feeling some fear that this would be wasted time and energy, and that this whole "experiment" could actually prove somewhat publicly embarrassing if it proves ineffective.

[BMart519]

@Getoffmylawn sounds like you need a vacation somewhere you can hit some bombs and see the fruits of your labour! Preferably somewhere at elevation with dry conditions

You may be getting too attached to the outcome, it appears you have increased your strength on all lifts. That is an accomplishment in itself and have helped fight off Father Time for another winter! If your swing speed does not increase, you will have learned that strength is not your limiting factor which also has value. You can then confidently switch your focus to technique, equipment, intention (all-out Bryson swings), and shift towards more SuperSpeed protocols or other speed work. 

What else did you have planned to do on lockdown in the winter anyway  

I'm undergoing physio on my shoulder and can't hit balls past 100 yards or about 70% effort. It could always be worse! Especially when the physio gives you a SuperSpeed stick to stretch with during therapy LOL. 

[ejgaudette]

1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I wanted to write another post, separate from my usual workout posts, to bare my soul a bit.  I find myself struggling from a motivation standpoint of late, and overall feel a bit of trepidation over this whole process I've inflicted on myself.

After about a month of this program, I played what turned out to be my last round of the year.  I posted about it here, but on my usual home course I hit several (for me) bombs that reached 300 yards and left me with sometimes more than a club less than I normally would find myself.  I had my playing partners dropping the occasional "wow" and "holy sh!t"...suffice it to say it was extremely motivating, and I try to hold onto that experience as I slog through these winter months.

However, as I also posted about here, my last GolfTec appointment was really disappointing.  I showed up expecting to see a big MPH jump, and saw almost nothing.

Again, I will say that I think personally, I don't perform well in an indoor hitting bay versus being outdoors.  And, trying to go for broke on a few tee shots after your instructor has spent 30 minutes working on a prescribed "fix" with you for something else probably isn't the best formula.  But the experience left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth as it relates to this whole experiment.

One, I recognize that I am making this harder on myself, and likely more inefficient, by not having a radar or monitoring device during the SuperSpeed work,  Two, getting up at 4 am, getting the truck out of the garage, putting an extra layer on, and cranking out SuperSpeed reps in the garage, in the winter, in Nebraska is proving to be quite the slog.

I'm going to stay at it;, I've come too far at this point.  And I'm sure something will fire me up soon enough.  Just struggling a bit at the moment and feeling some fear that this would be wasted time and energy, and that this whole "experiment" could actually prove somewhat publicly embarrassing if it proves ineffective.

I understand the frustration. I have been doing the Super Speed training as well and have struggled with needing to do it outside still with snow and winter in general bearing down and the level 2 has yielded fewer results as one expects but makes it a bit harder to trust the process. I have also have not been able to hit any ball or simulator work to test the progress which is less than ideal. Gotta just trust the process and keep at it, no my strong suit sometimes. Keep up the hard work besides the obvious general fitness I am sure there will be progress.

[Getoffmylawn]

43 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

@Getoffmylawn sounds like you need a vacation somewhere you can hit some bombs and see the fruits of your labour! Preferably somewhere at elevation with dry conditions

You may be getting too attached to the outcome, it appears you have increased your strength on all lifts. That is an accomplishment in itself and have helped fight off Father Time for another winter! If your swing speed does not increase, you will have learned that strength is not your limiting factor which also has value. You can then confidently switch your focus to technique, equipment, intention (all-out Bryson swings), and shift towards more SuperSpeed protocols or other speed work. 

What else did you have planned to do on lockdown in the winter anyway  

I'm undergoing physio on my shoulder and can't hit balls past 100 yards or about 70% effort. It could always be worse! Especially when the physio gives you a SuperSpeed stick to stretch with during therapy LOL. 

Hey man, much appreciated, the encouragement and the perspective.

I was listening to a Fit For Golf podcast perspective this morning with Sasho McKenzie(?) and he was explaining the different areas he looks to find where an athlete can gain speed.  What listening to that made me contemplate was my “need for speed” will likely need to evolve to a greater emphasis on technique and overspeed training.  And, I need to cobble together some scratch and pick up a radar...

I’m not surrendering on this by any means, I have every expectation of hitting bombs in a couple months.  Just feeling some anxiety and soreness at the same time!

18 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

I understand the frustration. I have been doing the Super Speed training as well and have struggled with needing to do it outside still with snow and winter in general bearing down and the level 2 has yielded fewer results as one expects but makes it a bit harder to trust the process. I have also have not been able to hit any ball or simulator work to test the progress which is less than ideal. Gotta just trust the process and keep at it, no my strong suit sometimes. Keep up the hard work besides the obvious general fitness I am sure there will be progress.

Thanks man

[BMart519]

6 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Hey man, much appreciated, the encouragement and the perspective.

I was listening to a Fit For Golf podcast perspective this morning with Sasho McKenzie(?) and he was explaining the different areas he looks to find where an athlete can gain speed.  What listening to that made me contemplate was my “need for speed” will likely need to evolve to a greater emphasis on technique and overspeed training.  And, I need to cobble together some scratch and pick up a radar...

I’m not surrendering on this by any means, I have every expectation of hitting bombs in a couple months.  Just feeling some anxiety and soreness at the same time!

Just listened to that as well... I cannot find the "Stack" swing speed trainer he talks about online. It sounds like it will have a supporting app for analysis and and adjustable weight. 

I took several notes from that podcast about 1 arm swings and comparing speed on each side and correlating it to 2 hand swings. Also, practicing shorter length swings to force the hips to fire faster to generate speed and improve the transition and sequencing. 

Mobility (hand path length) could be another area for you to explore... 

Edited January 22, 2021 by BMart519

[Getoffmylawn]

21 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Mobility (hand path length) could be another area for you to explore... 

Yeah, that's getting more attention from me as of late.  I didn't post it to my normal "workout log" post, but I also did 3 sets (each side) of a mobility/strength exercise he posted recently to IG where he used a rope handle at the top setting of a cable stack and used it for lead lat stretch and to train higher hands in the back swing.  We'll see.  I could definitely use a better top of backswing position.  Hoping recent emphasis on PlaneMate helps with that as well. 

[thatgolfguyrob]

45 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Yeah, that's getting more attention from me as of late.  I didn't post it to my normal "workout log" post, but I also did 3 sets (each side) of a mobility/strength exercise he posted recently to IG where he used a rope handle at the top setting of a cable stack and used it for lead lat stretch and to train higher hands in the back swing.  We'll see.  I could definitely use a better top of backswing position.  Hoping recent emphasis on PlaneMate helps with that as well. 

I've started implementing this stretch as well, and at a minimum, it's definitely loosening up some tightness I have. Haven't tested to see if it is actually helping, but sure can't be hurting!

[Getoffmylawn]

9 hours ago, BMart519 said:

@Getoffmylawn sounds like you need a vacation somewhere you can hit some bombs and see the fruits of your labour! Preferably somewhere at elevation with dry conditions

You may be getting too attached to the outcome, it appears you have increased your strength on all lifts. That is an accomplishment in itself and have helped fight off Father Time for another winter! If your swing speed does not increase, you will have learned that strength is not your limiting factor which also has value. You can then confidently switch your focus to technique, equipment, intention (all-out Bryson swings), and shift towards more SuperSpeed protocols or other speed work. 

What else did you have planned to do on lockdown in the winter anyway  

I'm undergoing physio on my shoulder and can't hit balls past 100 yards or about 70% effort. It could always be worse! Especially when the physio gives you a SuperSpeed stick to stretch with during therapy LOL. 

By the way, what’s wrong/what happened to your shoulder?!?

[Getoffmylawn]

Another winter storm is planning to blast us so I can add "shoveled driveway, 3 sets" to this by the end of the day, but ws able to knock out the workout before the storm rolled in.  SuperSpeed Level 4, then my B2 workout:

Med Ball Wall Throws - 10 pound ball, 3 x 5

Preacher Curl - 135, reps at 6, 2

Reverse Grip EZ Curl - 115, reps at 6, 2

Box Jumps - 3 x 5

Standing Cable Anti-Rotations - 50, 3 x 10

Seated Calf Raise - 120, 10 reps

Lying Leg Curl - 150, reps at 7, 3

Squats - 315, 2 x 8

I now have about 2 months of offseason training left.  (You can post a score to your handicap in Nebraska after March 15th, so that's when I'm considering my season to start.)  While I'm still going all out with my current program, I am starting to entertain how things will change after 2 more months of this.  I want to continue to make speed gains, but will likely revert to a lighter weight/higher rep lifting routine.  I really don't want to show up for golf rounds sore and unable to fully turn...a real killer for my swing (and most swings I suspect).  

Speed training, however, I want to continue to make gains during the season.  I listened another Fit For Golf podcast this morning, and in consideration of that one and the previous one I discussed here (and with some valuable input from @BMart519) it seems to me that I can maintain my strength gains and turn my attention to other sources of speed training.  In that area, I'm considering modifying SuperSpeed Level 5 (which I'll be in at that point), so I'll do that workout once a week, do a SuperSpeed C club workout once a week, and do a green stick only Single Arm workout once a week.  Overall intent here would be an intent to focus on hand and arms speed, and possibly shore up any deficiencies between one arm and the other.  

Thoughts?  Any C Club owners have any feedback?  Oh, and I do intend to bite the bullet and find a way to pick up a PRGR.  I know, I know, might have been more valuable YESTERDAY!!!

[edingc]

19 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Any C Club owners have any feedback? 

I haven't used mine for a bit, but work it in occasionally between the regular sticks. It definitely will work on the hand/arm speed, and I feel a pronounced "release" with it as well. 

As far as speed comparisons go, I've found it to be 5-8 MPH faster than my green club, sometimes more, sometimes less.