Getoffmylawn's Swing Saga: Episode IV, Pride & Punishment

[ejgaudette]

2 hours ago, edingc said:

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people's posted numbers with the SS sticks are from the Sports Sensors radar and not the PRGR. My general impression is that the PRGR reads lower than the Sports Sensors one.

I would guess that after a few weeks of work with the radar offering feedback you will see a jump in your speeds. Having that feedback will help immensely to determine the difference between what feels fast and what is actually fast.

Totally agree with this the number of times I swung and thought that was fast and look back and see it's slowest swing by with the that stick. That feedback I hope will really help.

[thatgolfguyrob]

Agree with the others - I think things will start to progress more and you'll see the speeds climb. I'd just use it as a starting point and go from there. Similar to lifting weights - all 500lbs squatters started with the bar, so all 120+ mph swingers all started somewhere too.

You know your game better than anyone, so don't let the numbers through you off. Just keep progressing.

[BMart519]

I heard about this product on the Fit for Golf podcast but couldn't find it online, until today... The price is steep, but the app provides 40+ weeks of programs that are sequenced based on your speed outputs in addition to warm-up protocols and pre-round speed priming. Someone was finally smart enough to replace the multiple sticks from SuperSpeed with a single adjustable stick. This could easily fit in my bag to replace the Orange Whip and use pre-round compared to SS. 

Two of the smartest guys in the sport are behind this product. The app and analysis it provides (along with the lifetime access promo for pre-orders), add enough value for me to consider purchasing this setup to replace my homemade SuperSpeed sticks. My bias as a Canadian may also be helping to justify supporting Sasho Mackenzie. I suspect there will be improvements to the app and additional material added over time as it appears he only mentions the step drill as the only non-standard swing used in the protocols (in addition to 1-arm swings). 

https://www.thestacksystem.com/

 

[Getoffmylawn]

48 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

I heard about this product on the Fit for Golf podcast but couldn't find it online, until today... The price is steep, but the app provides 40+ weeks of programs that are sequenced based on your speed outputs in addition to warm-up protocols and pre-round speed priming. Someone was finally smart enough to replace the multiple sticks from SuperSpeed with a single adjustable stick. This could easily fit in my bag to replace the Orange Whip and use pre-round compared to SS. 

Two of the smartest guys in the sport are behind this product. The app and analysis it provides (along with the lifetime access promo for pre-orders), add enough value for me to consider purchasing this setup to replace my homemade SuperSpeed sticks. My bias as a Canadian may also be helping to justify supporting Sasho Mackenzie. I suspect there will be improvements to the app and additional material added over time as it appears he only mentions the step drill as the only non-standard swing used in the protocols (in addition to 1-arm swings). 

https://www.thestacksystem.com/

 

Yeah, I think I remember a brief sales pitch for this when he was on the Fit for Golf podcast,

3 hours ago, thatgolfguyrob said:

Agree with the others - I think things will start to progress more and you'll see the speeds climb. I'd just use it as a starting point and go from there. Similar to lifting weights - all 500lbs squatters started with the bar, so all 120+ mph swingers all started somewhere too.

You know your game better than anyone, so don't let the numbers through you off. Just keep progressing.

Thanks, appreciate it.  Just hyper-competitive, with myself especially if that makes any sense...

[Getoffmylawn]

So being comfortable that I've done enough from a size and strength standpoint, and with a desire to focus on speed above all else, I'm looking to re-program my weight training.  I have a week off (due to a quick family trip) coming in the last week of February, so the plan is to keep doing what I'm doing through 19 Feb, take the week off, and then start a new training approach once I'm back.

The plan is to introduce complex training...many thanks to @BMart519for pointing me in this direction.

Basically, take an exercise, do it at 85-95% of your 1RM, rest, and then a light explosive version of the same movement pattern.  This capitalizes on a phenomenon known as Post Activation Potentiation, which in a nutshell means rather than being fatigued for the explosive movement, you'll actually be primed to move faster.

Here's a link to a MyTPI article concerning it, authored by Mike Carroll:

The Benefits Of Complex Training For Power Development In Golfers | Article | TPI (mytpi.com)

So, I am still struggling with how to program it.  I think what I'm going to do (and I'm hoping @BMart519or @Chip Strokeswon't mind giving me their thoughts) is the following:

Monday Wednesday Friday training split:

Monday & Friday - Complex training with one pair of heavy and explosive exercises for Legs, Chest, and Back

For example, 4 sets of squats followed by box jumps, then 4 sets of Dumbbell Bench followed by Plyo-Push Ups, 4 sets of Lat Pulldowns followed by med ball slams

Wednesday - Ancillary training, kind of a beach muscle workout, Shoulders, biceps, triceps, calves and hams, targeted ab work

Thoughts?  Or should I do the complex work 3 times a week?  And how do you assess I'll be feeling for a Saturday morning round after one of these workouts on a Friday?

Appreciate anyone's feedback....uncharted territory for me here....

 

[BMart519]

36 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Monday Wednesday Friday training split:

Monday & Friday - Complex training with one pair of heavy and explosive exercises for Legs, Chest, and Back

For example, 4 sets of squats followed by box jumps, then 4 sets of Dumbbell Bench followed by Plyo-Push Ups, 4 sets of Lat Pulldowns followed by med ball slams

Wednesday - Ancillary training, kind of a beach muscle workout, Shoulders, biceps, triceps, calves and hams, targeted ab work

Thoughts?  Or should I do the complex work 3 times a week?  And how do you assess I'll be feeling for a Saturday morning round after one of these workouts on a Friday?

Appreciate anyone's feedback....uncharted territory for me here....

 

Tracking fatigue and progress on this type of training becomes... Complex  - especially if working solo. Ideally, you would want to time or measure (jump height, push up height, throw distance) your explosive moves under normal conditions (warmed up, no PAP) to get a baseline. You would then compare those same metrics to ensure you are seeing increases over baseline w/PAP. If your outputs were significantly less w/PAP you either need to increase your rest period, or more likely - reduce load on the heavy move. 

The split looks fine, you train regularly so the PAP workout Friday shouldn't have high-rep programming for hypertrophy that leaves you sore with DOMS. This is where the next level of measuring comes into play, ideally you would also compare outputs on Monday vs Friday to ensure no decreases which would indicate overtraining. 

A few ideas on measuring:
jumps - standing vertical leap test, reach as high as possible on a wall with measurements on it (still shows leaping output which will carryover to box jumps)
med ball throw - lay on floor in a sit-up position with med ball over head on floor, throw as far as possible in the air past your feet while sitting up to torso vertical. Could throw towards a wall 20' away and see how high up the wall you hit. 
plyo push-up - use adjustable height steps as a box jump for your arms...

[Getoffmylawn]

59 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Tracking fatigue and progress on this type of training becomes... Complex  - especially if working solo. Ideally, you would want to time or measure (jump height, push up height, throw distance) your explosive moves under normal conditions (warmed up, no PAP) to get a baseline. You would then compare those same metrics to ensure you are seeing increases over baseline w/PAP. If your outputs were significantly less w/PAP you either need to increase your rest period, or more likely - reduce load on the heavy move. 

The split looks fine, you train regularly so the PAP workout Friday shouldn't have high-rep programming for hypertrophy that leaves you sore with DOMS. This is where the next level of measuring comes into play, ideally you would also compare outputs on Monday vs Friday to ensure no decreases which would indicate overtraining. 

A few ideas on measuring:
jumps - standing vertical leap test, reach as high as possible on a wall with measurements on it (still shows leaping output which will carryover to box jumps)
med ball throw - lay on floor in a sit-up position with med ball over head on floor, throw as far as possible in the air past your feet while sitting up to torso vertical. Could throw towards a wall 20' away and see how high up the wall you hit. 
plyo push-up - use adjustable height steps as a box jump for your arms...

Thank you.  You don't see any issue with doing some of the beach muscle work on Wednesday either?

[BMart519]

2 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Thank you.  You don't see any issue with doing some of the beach muscle work on Wednesday either?

You'll be able to tell if you measure outputs on Monday v Friday 

On Wednesday, I would avoid movements you did on Monday. 

[Getoffmylawn]

13 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

You'll be able to tell if you measure outputs on Monday v Friday 

On Wednesday, I would avoid movements you did on Monday. 

Gotcha.  Yeah, Wednesday I'm thinking mostly isolation movements, curls, pressdowns, etc...

[Chip Strokes]

i’m not gonna bother expanding on a really good write up from @BMart519.  he nailed it. 

the only consideration you should account for with your saturday round following your friday session is how depressed your CNS is from near maximal loads and increased neuromuscular recruitment from the speed training. 

there’s no way for me to say how the sessions will affect you, so there’s gonna be some trial and error. 

soreness should never hold you back from playing. once you’ve got a little sweat going that all goes away. as long as you’re staying warm during your rounds you’ll be ok. 

but if you find that you feel like you’re swinging your driver under water on saturday morning...that’s your CNS not firing on all cylinders and maybe a switch up in the schedule is needed. 

[Getoffmylawn]

10 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

i’m not gonna bother expanding on a really good write up from @BMart519.  he nailed it. 

the only consideration you should account for with your saturday round following your friday session is how depressed your CNS is from near maximal loads and increased neuromuscular recruitment from the speed training. 

there’s no way for me to say how the sessions will affect you, so there’s gonna be some trial and error. 

soreness should never hold you back from playing. once you’ve got a little sweat going that all goes away. as long as you’re staying warm during your rounds you’ll be ok. 

but if you find that you feel like you’re swinging your driver under water on saturday morning...that’s your CNS not firing on all cylinders and maybe a switch up in the schedule is needed. 

Thank you, appreciate the feedback.

[Getoffmylawn]

SuperSpeed Level 4 plus C Club this morning, followed by an A3 workout.  Again a disappointing output on the radar, but I'm trying to keep it in perspective and be patient.  It did also dawn on me that after completion of all 96 swings, I still hadn't broken a sweat...I run through the prescribed SuperSpeed warm-up protocols every time, but when you're swinging with a couple layers on in an unheated garage and it's -2 out, it's hard to get loose.  I'm sure that's a contributing factor, although not to the tune of 5 mph or something like that.

I'm also noticing some oddities.  For example, while I haven't charted the speeds, I find that if I'm equally as attentive to the non-dominant swings as the dominant ones, I appear to be slightly faster on the non-dominant swings!?  I'll have to chart the speeds on the non-dominant side the next time around, but perhaps this would be an indication that some single-arm speed training is in order.  I also don't seem to have much disparity between the sticks as compared to some others, in fact on several occasions I beat my green speeds with the blue stick.  This may simply owe to the lack of being sufficiently warmed up though.

The weight workout was a good one, getting stronger.  That said, I am looking forward to getting this phase over and done with and moving on to a contrast training method come March.  It's clear to me I'm "strong enough for golf" and would probably have been better served with a greater emphasis on power and explosiveness training this offseason. Live and learn...

Med Ball Slams - 10 pound ball, 3 x 5

Dumbbell Press - 95s, reps at 6, 1

Machine Shoulder Press - 190, reps at 7, 2

Machine Dip - 250, reps at 14, 4

Machine Lat Pulldown - 190, reps at 6, 1

Wide-Grip Cable Row - 190, reps at 8, 3 (time to up the weight here)

Standing Internal Rotations - 20, 3 x 12

Standing External Rotations - 20, 3 x 12

 

[BMart519]

On 2/10/2021 at 10:08 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

I'm also noticing some oddities.  For example, while I haven't charted the speeds, I find that if I'm equally as attentive to the non-dominant swings as the dominant ones, I appear to be slightly faster on the non-dominant swings!?  I'll have to chart the speeds on the non-dominant side the next time around, but perhaps this would be an indication that some single-arm speed training is in order.  I also don't seem to have much disparity between the sticks as compared to some others, in fact on several occasions I beat my green speeds with the blue stick.  This may simply owe to the lack of being sufficiently warmed up though.

 

Simplifaster (or Par4Success) had research showing that a number of people used improper sequencing on the green stick. They used more upper body than lower body in response to the weight being too light. My guess is 250g is too light for someone who DLs 400lbs.  They found that using only the Blue stick drove similar gains to using all 3 sticks. You're likely not firing your legs and hips as much on the green stick. 

Use the green stick (or take the head off your driver shaft) to do 1 arm swings and compare speeds for each arm. If there is a large difference, then it will be an area to improve. 

I've got no ideas why you would be faster non-dominant, unless your right leg is stronger than left (to produce more vertical force on lead side) and your sequencing is equally efficient swinging each way. Which would be impressive. As a right hander, my right leg is stronger than my left. But my coordination isn't even close on the non-dominant swings and I am this close to eliminating non-dominant swings altogether after more reading. 

If anything, I would like to experiment with a "plyo-swing" where you do a full swing RH, then swing back as hard as you can without stopping, in the other direction. But, I am going to be patient and continue rehabbing my shoulder for the next month or two until my Stack System arrives to replace my homemade SS sticks. 

Mach 3 Speed Training has an interesting drill where you swing as fast as possible side to side for 6 reps but only partial swings. Like doing a 90-90 drill as fast as you can, or even shorter. They have a lot of gimmicky devices, but their swing drills are interesting. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BMart519

[Getoffmylawn]

44 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Simplifaster (or Par4Success) had research showing that a number of people used improper sequencing on the green stick. They used more upper body than lower body in response to the weight being too light. My guess is 250g is too light for someone who DLs 400lbs.  They found that using only the Blue stick drove similar gains to using all 3 sticks. You're likely not firing your legs and hips as much on the green stick. 

Use the green stick (or take the head off your driver shaft) to do 1 arm swings and compare speeds for each arm. If there is a large difference, then it will be an area to improve. 

I've got no ideas why you would be faster non-dominant, unless your right leg is stronger than left (to produce more vertical force on lead side) and your sequencing is equally efficient swinging each way. Which would be impressive. As a right hander, my right leg is stronger than my left. But my coordination isn't even close on the non-dominant swings and I am this close to eliminating non-dominant swings altogether after more reading. 

If anything, I would like to experiment with a "plyo-swing" where you do a full swing RH, then swing back as hard as you can without stopping, in the other direction. But, I am going to be patient and continue rehabbing my shoulder for the next month or two until my Stack System arrives to replace my homemade SS sticks. 

Mach 3 Speed Training has an interesting drill where you swing as fast as possible side to side for 6 reps but only partial swings. Like doing a 90-90 drill as fast as you can, or even shorter. They have a lot of gimmicky devices, but their swing drills are interesting. 

Thank you!

Yeah, the plan is to do a little diagnostic work with the radar to see what kind of disparity I might have between each arm.

I've got to be honest, I am still kind of toying with going back to the drawing board and starting with Level 1 all over again, this time radar in tow.  It would have the benefit of cutting down on overall volume during the actual season too.

On another subject, the base gym is back to normal (kind of), so I want and checked out what equipment is available for when I move to this complex training program.  Found this, which I can pair with sprints...

Having never used one before, any tips?  I've read weight recommendations ranging from 80% to 100% of bodyweight, and then a 25Mish push.  I was thinking I'd put 200 on, push it 25M, rest 2-3, and then 60M sprint, all x 4.

[Getoffmylawn]

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

 

Btw, I tried to PM you but for some reason the site wouldn't let me...thank you for all the help and insights.  I must owe you some money at this point.

[BMart519]

21 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Having never used one before, any tips?  I've read weight recommendations ranging from 80% to 100% of bodyweight, and then a 25Mish push.  I was thinking I'd put 200 on, push it 25M, rest 2-3, and then 60M sprint, all x 4.

I've only used a weighted sled on artificial turf which has a lot more resistance than wheels. I used 50% of my body weight while still moving at a decent pace. Around 75% and it was a challenge to keep moving. On wheels I think 80-100% is a reasonable start point, but it may prove too easy. I would caution you to watch the momentum on that thing... It might get awkward if you need to stop it in a short distance. I would take it easy the first day, start at 100-150 just to get used to the equipment, then go to 200 and assess how hard it is to stop or if you can let it roll to a stop on its own. If it is easy to stop, I think you can probably move to 300-400 in no time. 

25m is good, lots of gyms only have 15-20m for sleds. 

[Chip Strokes]

22 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

 

On another subject, the base gym is back to normal (kind of), so I want and checked out what equipment is available for when I move to this complex training program.  Found this, which I can pair with sprints...

Having never used one before, any tips?  I've read weight recommendations ranging from 80% to 100% of bodyweight, and then a 25Mish push.  I was thinking I'd put 200 on, push it 25M, rest 2-3, and then 60M sprint, all x 4.

awesome sled!

it’s hard to program specific weights for sled work. you just can’t account for sled differences and flooring differences 

i always programmed sled work for my athletes using the pace at which i wanted them to move as a loading guideline. 

i.e.: 50m at marching pace or 20m at all our sprint pace. that way i knew my athletes were preserving the stimulus i was after, and i didn’t end up with someone barely moving 100lbs because they were on rubber flooring. and another person sprinting all out bc they’re on slick asphalt. 

[Getoffmylawn]

Just now, Chip Strokes said:

awesome sled!

it’s hard to program specific weights for sled work. you just can’t account for sled differences and flooring differences 

i always programmed sled work for my athletes using the pace at which i wanted them to move as a loading guideline. 

i.e.: 50m at marching pace or 20m at all our sprint pace. that way i knew my athletes were preserving the stimulus i was after, and i didn’t end up with someone barely moving 100lbs because they were on rubber flooring. and another person sprinting all out bc they’re on slick asphalt. 

Makes sense.  Seems to me a longer marching pace is what I’m after if I’m trying to amplify potentiation before the sprints.

[Chip Strokes]

1 minute ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Makes sense.  Seems to me a longer marching pace is what I’m after if I’m trying to amplify potentiation before the sprints.

yeah, i’d stick to marching or even slower

then either unloaded sled sprints or just regular wind sprints 

[RollingGreens]

On 9/22/2020 at 12:16 PM, Chip Strokes said:

so you're mostly hypertrophy based in the gym...which is completely fine and will absolutely get you the mass numbers and increased strength you're chasing.  i'd just caution you to add a yoga/deep stretching session on top of your plan of foam rolling to keep yourself fluid.  mass will move the ball, but a golf swing won't benefit from stiffness.

i competed for 5 years in CrossFit at the games level (i know, not everyones cup of tea) and then for 3 years nationally in olympic weightlifting.  i feel like almost more important than the strength gains will be the ability to transfer that mass and speed into an object efficiently.  i picked up golf in July, grabbed a driver and swung it 135mph.  i credit that to years of training in core-to-extremity movements with a bigtime focus on staying mobile and flexible.  i can squat 500lbs but can also sit and reach a foot past my toes.  

i'd cautiously estimate that most golfers can pick up speed and yardage without lifting a single weight.  mobility will allow people to swing their clubs faster and more efficiently than they can now.

Just started the peloton yoga classes 2 weeks ago and have noticed a huge improvement in my low back stability, and flexibility through my back and lower body. Definitely a better routine after maxing out isolated stretches.