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My Golf Spy Ball Lab Report-TP5


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Here is the Ball Lab report for the TP5.   One I know a lot of people have been waiting for.

What are your thoughts?

https://mygolfspy.com/ball-lab-2019-taylormade-tp5/

 

A photo of TaylorMade TP5 golf balls

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:ping-small:  G410 FW 5, 7 Alta CB R flex 

:ping-small: G410 Hybrid 26 degree Alta CB R Flex

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:titelist-small: SM7 54.08 F 58.12 K 

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I love these ball tests. One thing I am not sure I completely understand is the "true price". Is it higher priced if it does better or worse in the test?

 

The balls out this year. The TP5 is one of my favs. I didn't think I would like the new pix alignment deal. But it actually works pretty well. 

Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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5 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

I love these ball tests. One thing I am not sure I completely understand is the "true price". Is it higher priced if it does better or worse in the test?

Yes, the higher the True Price is, in effect means the ball is less consistent or has more defects than a lower price True Price number.   Meaning it's the price you'd have to pay to get a quality dozen.  

Here's the actual definition from Tony:

TRUE PRICE

Our True Price metric seeks to quantify the true cost of a dozen “good” balls of each model tested.

In simple terms, a good ball is one that’s consistent with the other balls in the sample set, free from significant manufacturing defects and conforms to the USGA’s size and weight rules.

Think of it this way: Is that $30-a-dozen ball truly a great value if you need to buy two dozen to get 12 good balls?

Here’s the real rub: It’s nearly impossible for golfers to know which balls in any given box are bad. You get what you get, but sometimes you should get upset.

True Price will help golfers better understand how much a given ball really costs … and how much performance it might be costing them.

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:titelist-small: TS1 Fubuki 45g R Flex

:ping-small:  G410 FW 5, 7 Alta CB R flex 

:ping-small: G410 Hybrid 26 degree Alta CB R Flex

:titelist-small: T100S/T200 Combo 5-7 T100S 8-P T200 TT Black Oynx R Flex

:titelist-small: SM7 54.08 F 58.12 K 

:scotty-small:  Phantom 5.5   35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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I love these ball tests. One thing I am not sure I completely understand is the "true price". Is it higher priced if it does better or worse in the test?
 
The balls out this year. The TP5 is one of my favs. I didn't think I would like the new pix alignment deal. But it actually works pretty well. 

The higher the price over retail cost means that the quality is considered worse. Basically it is how much you need to spend to get 12 good balls. Ideally the true cost and retail price would be the same.
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Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:


The higher the price over retail cost means that the quality is considered worse. Basically it is how much you need to spend to get 12 good balls. Ideally the true cost and retail price would be the same.

Also worth noting that so far, no ball as achieved that equilibrium, Pro V1 closest on an average, which is no surprise.

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:ping-small: G710, 4-UW, Blue Dot, Nippon Modus 105-S

:honma: TW-W4, 56*, Nippon Modus 125

:mizuno-small: T20, 61*, Nippon Modus 125

:nickent-small: Pipe

:bridgestone-small: Tour B-XS (2019)

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Tony did a really good job with this one. I'm really surprised to see Taylormade fare as well as they did given everything Tony noted. What he said about the large sample of minor inconsistencies being problematic is spot on. Either Taylormade's current process is veering toward failure or they are trying so hard to ride the line that any deviation could create serious issues.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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7 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yes, the higher the True Price is, in effect means the ball is less consistent or has more defects than a lower price True Price number.   Meaning it's the price you'd have to pay to get a quality dozen.  

Here's the actual definition from Tony:

TRUE PRICE

Our True Price metric seeks to quantify the true cost of a dozen “good” balls of each model tested.

In simple terms, a good ball is one that’s consistent with the other balls in the sample set, free from significant manufacturing defects and conforms to the USGA’s size and weight rules.

Think of it this way: Is that $30-a-dozen ball truly a great value if you need to buy two dozen to get 12 good balls?

Here’s the real rub: It’s nearly impossible for golfers to know which balls in any given box are bad. You get what you get, but sometimes you should get upset.

True Price will help golfers better understand how much a given ball really costs … and how much performance it might be costing them.

Ok, That is what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. Thank you.

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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4 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

Also worth noting that so far, no ball as achieved that equilibrium, Pro V1 closest on an average, which is no surprise.

Yeah, I was surprised at the Bridgestone BXS not fairing better than it did. I am wondering if the "X" will do better... 

I have become super addicted to this and really want to know which ball will fair the best.. 

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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... I love reading these tests as well as seeing the results. 5 Layers has to be pretty tough to get perfect and the TP5 is my favorite ball so I will continue to play them, especially when the negatives are accompanied by " though none were significant enough to be of concern." and "unlikely to cause a notable performance issue." Since I just bought 5 dozen for $99 my True Price is still pretty low. 

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Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 7s
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Tensei Pro Orange 80 hy s-flex
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 110 s-flex 4 iron shaft
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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Always had a soft spot for the TP5, back when it was the Penta this was this first ball I put some true spin action on, I can still see the shot in my head. I don't play it anymore, tried the TP5X some this year and it has always seemed like a good ball. Another great write up.

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Someone commented on the report asking about True Price because they thought all of the minor inconsistencies had been factored into that. I didn't address that part of his question in my initial response because it seemed obvious that TP did not reflect all of those balls. However, I just typed up another response and did the math. Tony noted somewhere around 80% of the TP5 balls examined had some form of minor inconsistency, defect, or "non-conformance" (using air quotes here because no balls were actually deemed non-conforming). For those who want a 100% defect free dozen it will cost you a whopping $269.94 for the TP5 based on this report.

No one has said anything of the sort in this thread (yet), but this is why I have harped about golfer expectations in other posts. We should not for any reason demand all OEMs to be 100% perfect 100% of the time unless you want to drastically and needlessly drive up prices.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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Ball Lab is easily becoming my favorite bit of analysis that MGS puts out. The detail Tony does with this work is phenomenal, and combined with the raw stats from the Most Wanted list, every player should be able to find the best ball that meets their preferences. 
 

That said, Snell MTB-X next please!

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero,10°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3W: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 15°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3H: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 18°, KBS Tour Hybrid 75S

4i-PW: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Pro, +1°, True Temper Elevate Tour S, Standard Lie

Wedges: :vokey-small: SM8 - 50°/12F, 54°/14F, 58°/14K

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: Special Select Squareback 2, 35"

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

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13 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

For those who want a 100% defect free dozen it will cost you a whopping $269.94 for the TP5 based on this report.

Just barely more expensive than Clear balls! Haha

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero,10°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3W: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 15°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3H: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 18°, KBS Tour Hybrid 75S

4i-PW: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Pro, +1°, True Temper Elevate Tour S, Standard Lie

Wedges: :vokey-small: SM8 - 50°/12F, 54°/14F, 58°/14K

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: Special Select Squareback 2, 35"

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

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38 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Someone commented on the report asking about True Price because they thought all of the minor inconsistencies had been factored into that. I didn't address that part of his question in my initial response because it seemed obvious that TP did not reflect all of those balls. However, I just typed up another response and did the math. Tony noted somewhere around 80% of the TP5 balls examined had some form of minor inconsistency, defect, or "non-conformance" (using air quotes here because no balls were actually deemed non-conforming). For those who want a 100% defect free dozen it will cost you a whopping $269.94 for the TP5 based on this report.

No one has said anything of the sort in this thread (yet), but this is why I have harped about golfer expectations in other posts. We should not for any reason demand all OEMs to be 100% perfect 100% of the time unless you want to drastically and needlessly drive up prices.

True we cant demand 100% Perfection. 

 

I was reading though the TP5 test again and the bridgestone BXS again. It is interesting that the BXS run larger than average and the TP5 runs smaller. 

My first thought is that that smaller (if they weigh the same) is a good thing right? It will have less drag. This may be one of the reason that the TP5 and TP5X are both very very good ball when playing in wind. 

 

Quotes from the articles. 

"We also noted that the Tour BXS runs slightly large for the Tour ball category"

"TaylorMade’s TP5 (and TP5x) are consistently the smallest balls we’ve measured. TaylorMade flirts with the USGA standard and while none in our sample failed the USGA ball track test, several fell through our gauge 10 to 15 percent of the time (anything below 25 percent passes)."

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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This was a lot of good information. I think TM produces a quality ball (the only tour balls I don't like are Callaway) but I've always felt that they are a half step below Bridgestone, Srixon, and Titleist. Mainly because those companies control their own ball plants and my understanding is TM does not. I prefer the TP5x, but I would expect similar findings in those tests. I'd play this ball without fear.

Take Dead Aim

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20 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

I was reading though the TP5 test again and the bridgestone BXS again. It is interesting that the BXS run larger than average and the TP5 runs smaller. 

My first thought is that that smaller (if they weigh the same) is a good thing right? It will have less drag. This may be one of the reason that the TP5 and TP5X are both very very good ball when playing in wind. 

Smaller balls would have less mass, so in theory it would have less drag (assuming similar dimple patterns), but slightly less spin and carry as the force generated on the larger ball is slightly greater at the same swing speed. Mind you, we are talking fractional differences. 
 

This bears out in the latest Most Wanted golf ball when comparing these two specific examples. 


- TP5: Avg backspin of 2,294 rpm (Driver); avg height of 116; avg carry of 279.06

- BXS: Avg backspin of 2,367, avg height of 117; avg carry if 281.95

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero,10°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3W: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 15°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

3H: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Sub Zero, 18°, KBS Tour Hybrid 75S

4i-PW: :callaway-logo-1: Mavrik Pro, +1°, True Temper Elevate Tour S, Standard Lie

Wedges: :vokey-small: SM8 - 50°/12F, 54°/14F, 58°/14K

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: Special Select Squareback 2, 35"

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

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1 minute ago, GBWarPig said:

Smaller balls would have less mass, so in theory it would have less drag (assuming similar dimple patterns), but slightly less spin and carry as the force generated on the larger ball is slightly greater at the same swing speed. Mind you, we are talking fractional differences. 
 

This bears out in the latest Most Wanted golf ball when comparing these two specific examples. 


- TP5: Avg backspin of 2,294 rpm (Driver); avg height of 116; avg carry of 279.06

- BXS: Avg backspin of 2,367, avg height of 117; avg carry if 281.95

The mass would not be less if it was smaller but weighed the same.. Wouldn't that make it have more mass? 

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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15 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

My first thought is that that smaller (if they weigh the same) is a good thing right? It will have less drag.

Correct. A smaller ball at the same weight will generally fly further which is why the USGA has set a limit. However unless we're talking a significant difference, playability will remain close. Plenty of other factors such as dimple pattern, compression, and overall ball construction would obviously have an impact as well. I personally find the BXS to do quite well for me in the wind compared to other balls I've played in the past, but I've also not experimented with TP5 or TP5X.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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2 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Correct. A smaller ball at the same weight will generally fly further which is why the USGA has set a limit. However unless we're talking a significant difference, playability will remain close. Plenty of other factors such as dimple pattern, compression, and overall ball construction would obviously have an impact as well. I personally find the BXS to do quite well for me in the wind compared to other balls I've played in the past, but I've also not experimented with TP5 or TP5X.

I know we are talking very very small differences. I really like the BXS ball as well. I do find it a little sorter off all clubs but still a great ball. I probably should just play the BX as it offers just a smidge more ball speed and a fraction less spin.

 

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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4 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

The mass would not be less if it was smaller but weighed the same.. Wouldn't that make it have more mass? 

Since mass is a measure of how much matter is in an object, I would assume they'd both technically be the same. However, the smaller ball would be more condensed and the larger ball would be more spatial which is part of the reason spin would change.

Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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