Titleist AP-3 Swingweight Question

[sager]

Hello forum members.  I wonder if you can help me with an iron issue.

I got a new set of AP-3 irons two years ago and (believe it or not) just realized the swingweight feels way too light - no head feel compared to a couple of friends' irons - Mizuno EZ/graphite and Srixon 565/steel.  I know it's not precise, but using an online tool and carefully weighing and measuring my irons I came up with a consistent swingweight of C8 for them; the Titleist website indicates they should be D2 (not specified iron or graphite).  

My shafts are Mitsubishi Tensei CK red.  I know some other iron manufacturers state a one-number lower swingweight for graphite versus iron shafts in their clubs.

My question is what should I do in terms of changing the grips (currently GolfPride Tour Velvet 360 Midsize, 53.5 grams) to get my irons to a swingweight of D1 at least?  One option I have read is change to lighter grips - have heard that each 4-5 gm lighter grip changes the swingweight one point.  I plan to change to standard size grips with one or two wraps of tape.  Your suggestions are appreciated.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, sager said:

Hello forum members.  I wonder if you can help me with an iron issue.

I got a new set of AP-3 irons two years ago and (believe it or not) just realized the swingweight feels way too light - no head feel compared to a couple of friends' irons - Mizuno EZ/graphite and Srixon 565/steel.  I know it's not precise, but using an online tool and carefully weighing and measuring my irons I came up with a consistent swingweight of C8 for them; the Titleist website indicates they should be D2 (not specified iron or graphite).  

My shafts are Mitsubishi Tensei CK red.  I know some other iron manufacturers state a one-number lower swingweight for graphite versus iron shafts in their clubs.

My question is what should I do in terms of changing the grips (currently GolfPride Tour Velvet 360 Midsize, 53.5 grams) to get my irons to a swingweight of D1 at least?  One option I have read is change to lighter grips - have heard that each 4-5 gm lighter grip changes the swingweight one point.  I plan to change to standard size grips with one or two wraps of tape.  Your suggestions are appreciated.

You are correct grip would be about 5 grams per swingweight point.   You want to move 3 so that would be about 15 gram so you would need grips in the  upper 30 gram range.  Winn Lite grips would get you there.     You can also increase weight at the head of the club.  Easiest is lead tape but you could also add tip weights if you wanted to disassemble the clubs.  

[gbtrsc]

Golf pride Tour Velvet 360 Midsize are 57.5 grams +/- 3.5 grams. So they can vary by more than a full swingweight. You would need to find a midsize grip in the 42-45 gram range with pretty tight weight tolerances to get to your desired swingweight.

A good club repairman will weigh each grip prior to install, and will even pre-swingweight the club to determine what weight grip will get closest to the desired swingweight.


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[Kenny B]

I would question why/if your AP-3 are not to the D-2 spec.  It would be very unusual for Titleist to issue clubs that far off spec, and your grips are not that unusual weight wise.  Personally, I would have them checked for swingweight, rather than trust a calculation.  Weighing a club and getting an accurate number is a tricky task.  Only with a measured swing weight would I consider options.  

Most lighter grips will only get you one SW point, except Winn Lite like @cnosil mentioned.  That option would allow more wraps underneath if you want.  However, having only one or maybe two grip options would not be ideal for me.  If necessary, adding weight to the club head is the easiest unless you go with tip weights.

[sager]

I can note, based on what I have seen published, that swing weights for a given club in graphite is usually one point less than that club would have with a steel shaft. But I just now saw Srixon Z585 irons are listed as D2/steel and C9 graphite!   I believe putting in larger (midsize) grips in my AP-3's lowered the swingweight even further to C8 from D2.  Yes it does seem excessive.  

I know my measurements may not be precise, but I did come up with the same swingweights as published specs for my  Cleveland RTX-4 54 deg and 58 deg wedges - calculated out to D5 and this is what they publish as standard.  I'll check my old Srixon irons to see if they check out the same as spec.  They DO feel like a heavier sw. (Addendum - checked Srixon i302 two separate irons calculated at D1; can't find specs for them)

So it looks like my options are going to much lighter grips and/or adding weight to the tip of the shaft.  I don't want to use lead tape.

GolfPride Tour Velvet 360 Midsize are indeed 57.5 grams @gbtrsc.  Thank you for pointing that out.

So if I want a 3-4 swingweight increase, then I need grips that are 15 - 20 grams or so lighter, maybe a bit lighter yet if I want two wraps.  Is it correct that each extra grip wrap adds about two grams?  As I said, I want to use standard size grips with two extra wraps - downsize a bit.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by sager
Added info. Added add'l info.

[gbtrsc]

Another point: the CK is a wood shaft. I believe you meant AM Red. Those only average 64 grams which is REALLY light for an iron shaft. Every 9 grams of shaft weight equals one swingweight point. So if your iron shafts are 45 grams lighter than steel (110 grams or so, maybe even 120 grams) that’s 5-6 swingweight a right there. Throw on the heavier grip, now your 7-8 swingweight a lighter. Add one inch of shaft length for graphite and you get back 2 points, or back to 5-6 points lighter. So not hard to see how your AP3s could be weighted so light.

As for wraps under the grip you may not need them. Butt diameter of that shaft is .594. Find a grip you like with a core size of .580. Installed on that shaft with just grip tape it will come out slightly over size but not up to a midsize.


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[sager]

@gbtrsc - the shaft says "CK SERIES   AMC IR     FLEX R.

I'm going to put some lead tape on the head of one of my irons to see what swingweight feels best, then try to match that by getting lighter grips, if I can.

Thanks for any follow-up.  

[19hole]

The standard swingweight for your irons is D2. If they left Titleist with the grips you are using, they would have made weight adjustments to keep the D2 swingweight. I agree with actually measuring the swingweight not trying to calculate it. As others have noted, you may install lighter grips or add weight to the clubhead or even a combination of both. Unless you have access to as SW scale, you might want to leave this to a profession club maker. Alternatively, you could arrange to send them back to Titleist and they can make the adjustment for you. They will add weight at the shaft/clubhead joint in the epoxy.  

[ChitownM2]

The other easier option is to buy the high density tungsten powder from golfworks, the corks, and a ram rod. For ~$50 you can add powder down the shaft of each club to get the swing weight where you want it. this will allow you to keep the grip you like get rather than being forced to play the lightest one you can find. 

[sager]

On 10/6/2020 at 10:44 PM, ChitownM2 said:

The other easier option is to buy the high density tungsten powder from golfworks, the corks, and a ram rod. For ~$50 you can add powder down the shaft of each club to get the swing weight where you want it. this will allow you to keep the grip you like get rather than being forced to play the lightest one you can find. 

Thanks for the tip.  I am sure the swingweight is too light, no question.  As I said, when I checked (by an online calculator) the swingweight of my other clubs - they check out to what the reported specs were.  May take them to Club Champion and see what they can do.

 

[WorkshopSim]

Check to see if they are counterfeit.  This happened to me - same clubs, same issue (swing weight in the C8 range).  I did some research, and they are indeed fakes.  I bought them off ebay a couple years back. Mine had a few giveaways, most notably the stamped 6 - the top of my 6 curved over like the one I just typed. Real Titleist numbers don't do that.