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Game improvement irons for high swing speed high handicaps.


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2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah, I’m counting on that 48 to come close to replacing the A wedge i had in the MAVRIK.  It was 47 i think snd it was my fsvorite club in the set.  I was automatic with it from 80 yards (3/4 swing) to 105 yards (full swing). I mean if i didn’t get it with on 10 to 15 feet from those distances, it was very unusual. 

If not having that club has taught me anything is how versatile my PW is....can do a lot with that thing now

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  • 4 months later...

Chip Strikes is swinging a 7 iron 105 mph! PGA Tour average is 90 mph with a 172 carry (2019 data from trackman). Now I know can get after a ball if I want to and generate 10 or 15 miles per hour extra speed but there is no way I’m hitting it consistently.  
 

Either way the need to reduce gaps and have the appropriate distances for the bag is clearly what is most important (as stated by others above). First thing is that difference in distances for your long irons should be a lot less than your short irons. My wedges are 14 yards and my 4 to 5 is 9 yards. So make sure you can get those numbers squared away. Then if you can get away with your longest iron being a 5 iron then just stack your bag with a 64, 60, 56 and 52 and find a nice 5 or 4 wood that works just right for that one or two holes on your home course of yours. Also  you can get those loft angles increased 1 or 2 degrees and make sure your set up with a 130 grain steel shaft. It won’t help with your distance issue but it will help with your swing.  

DeChambeau uses one length irons by cobra. They have a set called Cobra King SpeedZone which  are the game improvement version. If I was just picking up the game I would give them a good look. 

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If you are ordering custom clubs after a fitting lofts can be weakened. If you are looking for something not game improvement look no further than the mizuno tours you were fitted in. Looking for something in the middle ground, research a forged set of clubs the best of both worlds between game improvement and blades. If you don’t love the clubs prior to purchasing you’ll never be happy. Don’t attempt to talk yourself in to buying something. I would look at forged options to find a middle ground it seems you are looking for which allows you to grow into the clubs. The posts above make great points but their is not only objective data but subjective that matters also. If you hate the look of the club it won’t work for you in the long run

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On 9/25/2020 at 4:41 PM, BigCountry17 said:

One fitter had a GI T300, one Ping g410, one PXG 0311P players, last one Mizuno JPX 921 Tour. So split 50/50. Sorry for the confusion. 
 

driver 270 carry 

3 wood 250 carry 

hybrid 230 carry 

7 iron target is targeted by me at 175 to 180 

Based on that, it sounds to me like your strike zone consistency may not be that accurate and they feel GI category clubs will help you the most.  Some say playing a small size club will force one to become a better ball striker - that debate and how much you care to struggle getting their (assuming you can) is something you'll have to decide.  Aesthetics aside, I'm of the opinion that getting all you can from the latest technology, without sacrificing other needs, such as ball flight workability, etc., is the best approach. Keep in mind that many of the GI designs hit every bit as long as player irons - some much further due to their stronger lofts.  Further, some have really done an excellent job making them less visually offensive to those that just cannot get around that aspect.  You mention distance in your tests but what about ball height, spin, and descent angles, and dispersion... especially dispersion?  

You might want to try Srixon ZX5's.  I think these can be ordered with a weaker/classic loft if needed to trade some distance for trajectory.

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This wont be a popular answer, but here goes. When I first started playing (2018) I had a 117 mph swing speed with a slice that wound up 2 holes over, and an average distance/FIR% I'm embarrassed to talk about. I also had a 200 yard 7i that I couldn't control. I lost more money in balls than I did in bets with my buddies, and that's saying something. My first index was 26.5, and I was determined to lower that with my "I'm a collegiate athlete, I don't need help with my golf game" approach. The day after the 2018 season ended and my index actually got worse I made my first appointment for a lesson. Obviously, my Alpha personality wasn't doing me any favors and I intended to make golf my #1 hobby. Over the winter of 2018/2019 I didn't change my game, I learned MY game, and there's a difference. By the end of the winter break, my 117 mph swing speed/1.10 smash factor averages went to a consistent 112 MPH swing speed and a 1.43 smash. I was straighter by A LOT, distance went from around 240-250 to 270-280. My iron play improved dramatically, I became more consistent on dispersion and distance. If I could only putt.......

 

After the third lesson, my coach talked to me about going for a proper fitting. Although my Callaway Rogue irons were a great product, he was certain they were not right for me. I asked plenty of questions in that conversation, and learned a lot from his answers, and more afterwards with my own research. I booked an appointment with a Top 100 fitter local to me and they were awesome. By the time my session was done I had about 2 pages worth of performance data and club combinations to consider. I wound up choosing the Miura set I'm in now which is in between the game improvement and players distance categories. I know this isn't the exactly the post you wanted to read, but this was my experience having come from a similar place. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you'll update us on your progress. 

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I love reading about the problem of too much club head speed. I’ve never had that problem but I can reference what two pretty good players said. Nicklaus said when he went on tour he could hit his 9 iron 150 yards but made his seven iron his 150 club in order to gain more control. Hogan once said to a young, strong player “you can’t play good golf hitting an 8 iron that far” (I forget the yardage but you get the idea). If you learn how to hit your 7 iron 180 yards instead of 200 you will start shooting good scores and you will have an extra 20 yards in the tank if you need it.  But that doesn’t address the original question. Swinging that fast tells me you’re a good athlete. Get a set of irons that let you feel where on the face you made contact. Your athleticism will allow you to adjust. 

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I love reading about the problem of too much club head speed. I’ve never had that problem but I can reference what two pretty good players said. Nicklaus said when he went on tour he could hit his 9 iron 150 yards but made his seven iron his 150 club in order to gain more control. Hogan once said to a young, strong player “you can’t play good golf hitting an 8 iron that far” (I forget the yardage but you get the idea). If you learn how to hit your 7 iron 180 yards instead of 200 you will start shooting good scores and you will have an extra 20 yards in the tank if you need it.  But that doesn’t address the original question. Swinging that fast tells me you’re a good athlete. Get a set of irons that let you feel where on the face you made contact. Your athleticism will allow you to adjust. 

I have heard of studies that showed that trying to hit the ball harder than “normal” or less than normal will actually increase you shot distribution. Largely due to people getting out of sequence or trying to control their swing.

I would say to slow down you swing only when you are trying to take off Distance.

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22 hours ago, cnosil said:


I have heard of studies that showed that trying to hit the ball harder than “normal” or less than normal will actually increase you shot distribution. Largely due to people getting out of sequence or trying to control their swing.

I would say to slow down you swing only when you are trying to take off Distance.

I’d also like to add to this from my experience yesterday. A 3/4 swing hitting the center of the face is much more controlled (and consistent) than an all out full swing. Your distance may drop a little but your smaller numbers will be tighter. 

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25 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

I’d also like to add to this from my experience yesterday. A 3/4 swing hitting the center of the face is much more controlled (and consistent) than an all out full swing. Your distance may drop a little but your smaller numbers will be tighter. 

Smaller numbers being tighter hopefully leads to more GIR, leading to lower scores.  Consider lower lofts to adjust for the problem you are having for distance 

Edited by RollingGreens

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i’m in a very similar position to you. i started golfing a few months ago with hand me down clubs and i have a high handicap but exceptionally high swing speed. i swing my 7i 105-110mph.
the first fitter i went to heard my handicap and immediately fit me for GI irons. like you, i don’t see any reason to have a 215yd 7i. 
my advice to you is to truly take stock of how seriously you want to take getting better. if you just want to play some recreational golf, GI irons will definitely mask a lot of mishits and will allow you to enjoy the game.
what i decided to do was get fit for clubs that my game can grow into. if you’re dedicated to getting better, that route is going to serve you for the next handful of seasons at least. 

Sounds like you need player irons if you’re swinging that fast


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3 minutes ago, twyatt700 said:


Sounds like you need player irons if you’re swinging that fast


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Those that are saying their 7 iron is too long, feel free to send 20 or 30 yards of it to me
 
 

amen!! I can swing my driver 120 but have no idea where it’s going!


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Srixon ZX 3w Ventus Velocore Blue 7s

Ping G425 5w X-Stiff Ping Tour 70 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Modus Tour 105 Stiff 

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I’m late to this but, if you’re a high hcp then your distance doesn’t matter if you can’t score, I’m a 9 but have been down to a 6 without driving it more that 250 average and not very long with irons, but I’ve learned to hit where I’m aiming and know I can at least two putt from anywhere and will get it close with my wedges. One thing about pros that no one talks about is how good they are with their distance... control. They know exactly how far the hit the ball on the number. Everyone likes to talk about how far they car hit it, but it’s better to know what swing and what club can hit your number on the dot to get close to score. Distance is impressive but distance control is what matters


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Srixon ZX 3w Ventus Velocore Blue 7s

Ping G425 5w X-Stiff Ping Tour 70 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Modus Tour 105 Stiff 

Srixon ZX& 7-PW  Modus Tour 105 Stiff 

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That’ll do 🤤


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Lost my father right after Christmas, and this entire thread reminded me of some of my favorite pearls he dropped on me over the years. My pop was my hero, and we always had a great time no matter what. I can just see some of you guys golfing with us and him saying the below to any of you with a wide grin, and a belly laugh. I guarantee he's up there playing and still talking s**t. Miss that guy more everyday. Enjoy these. 

 

"You cant make a birdie off the tee, but you can sure as s**t ensure a bogey or worse from it".

"Have you ever tried the 'Suck less' approach to this game?"

My little brother scrambles to a solid par "Nice job, Jake, way to battle." I slice my tee shot to the next fairway over and break myself to just get double- "Joe, keep trying, bud"

"How hard you can swing, and how far you can hit it doesn't really matter much if you cant play the ball after it lands"

"Well man alive. You finally hit a fairway. Outdrove me by about 40 yards too, nice job bud. Maybe between now and home you can figure out an explanation to your mom why I still beat you by 27 strokes...."

"That's a nice pullover, son. You're gonna look great duffing your way to a 105 today."

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One fitter had a GI T300, one Ping g410, one PXG 0311P players, last one Mizuno JPX 921 Tour. So split 50/50. Sorry for the confusion. 
 
driver 270 carry 
3 wood 250 carry 
hybrid 230 carry 
7 iron target is targeted by me at 175 to 180 

What’s your dispersion with the 7i look like? Have you tried making a 3/4 swing? I have Titleist AP3’s and was prone to the 210 yard 7i now again, shortening my swing keeps it to 185 yards and has tightened my dispersion by a good 30 yards.
But if you hit it 200+ every time, you’re ready for players irons or blades, handicap be damned. As far as recommending sets for you, I’d suggest:

Titleist T100
Mizuno 921 Forged
TM P7MC
Ping I-blade

You might consider blending a set if you’re struggling with the longer irons, but as others have suggested, if you’re dedicated to improving you might as well get a set you can grow into. Best of luck


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3 Wood - Ping g410 LST

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Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV

 

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High swing speed here. The question is do you make good contact with the ball. Game improvement irons could be a good fit. Curious to see what 7i y’all are hitting 200+ though because it’s got to be close to 24* if that’s the case.....

There’s loft jacking, and then there’s a 24 degree 7 iron...

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Driver - Cobra LtDxLS

3 Wood - Ping g410 LST

2iron - Titleist U505

Irons - Ping i59

Wedges - Vokey Sm9

Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV

 

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3 hours ago, Micah T said:


What’s your dispersion with the 7i look like? Have you tried making a 3/4 swing? I have Titleist AP3’s and was prone to the 210 yard 7i now again, shortening my swing keeps it to 185 yards and has tightened my dispersion by a good 30 yards.
But if you hit it 200+ every time, you’re ready for players irons or blades, handicap be damned. As far as recommending sets for you, I’d suggest:

Titleist T100
Mizuno 921 Forged
TM P7MC
Ping I-blade

You might consider blending a set if you’re struggling with the longer irons, but as others have suggested, if you’re dedicated to improving you might as well get a set you can grow into. Best of luck


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I had a conversation on the course with a fellow golfer that seems relevant to this discussion. 

All three of us found ourselves with the same club in our hands for a similar shot. It was about 90 yards and Gap wedge of 52° in hand. My friend scooped his sky high and ended up short. The other guy covered it with a partial swing and ended up landing really close to the pin and rolling long. I took a 90% swing and was somewhere in the middle and a little long. 

My buddy asked why his was short. I told him you are playing your 52° wedge at near 60° when you scoop it. He asked why the other guy launched so low and he swing so easy. I said it was because he is playing his 52° closer to 45° by coming in steep and taking a healthy divot. 

All this talk of 7i and 200+ yards really comes down to speed, quality of impact, and angle of attack. Fast club head speed and good Impact are thrown out the window if you are adding loft at impact. Modern lofts are one to two clubs stronger lofted and a healthy, steep angle of attack turns a stamped 7i into a retro 5i and steep makes that into a 4 or 3 iron. Sole camber, pre-worn front edge, v-sole, or game improvement wide soles all can help make steep not feel as steep. 

With so many things in dynamic motion that vary so widely from player to player, it all boils down to either, "are you having fun?" Or "can you score?" In the end, that's all that matters. 

My best 7i distance is close to 180yds when I push. My best scoring with a 7i is around 150-155 yards and a 3/4 swing. I don't care how far it goes as long as I know how far I can reliably hit it. 

Golf is simple - people are complicated.

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