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Game improvement irons for high swing speed high handicaps.


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7 hours ago, BigCountry17 said:

That is my concern with gapping. 
hybrid is 235 

it 7 iron is 200 or even 190 

6 would be 215 or 205

5 would be 230 or 220 

so no 4. 
then I will need a Pitching Gap approach sand and lob wedge to cover 160 and in my eyes with my poor shift game is not ideal. 

Most pros are carrying 4 wedges nowadays. 

Set PW and set Gap/Approach are the lofts of what 9i and PW used to be. Tiger is one of the only players I know of not using a Gap wedge because his PW is 49 deg. Again, the number doesn't matter - gaps matter, landing angle and stopping power matter. 

Lots of good advice from the others for you. 

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8 hours ago, Buffly said:

Most pros are carrying 4 wedges nowadays. 

Set PW and set Gap/Approach are the lofts of what 9i and PW used to be. Tiger is one of the only players I know of not using a Gap wedge because his PW is 49 deg. Again, the number doesn't matter - gaps matter, landing angle and stopping power matter. 

Lots of good advice from the others for you. 

I know this is something I’ll be doing (will have 5 for next season) taking the 4 iron out of the bag. Love the club but need the versatility lower with a 48*. 

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24 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I know this is something I’ll be doing (will have 5 for next season) taking the 4 iron out of the bag. Love the club but need the versatility lower with a 48*. 

I'm not quite at 5, but I'm at 4, based on the Vokey wedge  fitting tool, which also is the same that my fitting at TPI produced last year.   I have a  PW at 43 and have ordered a SM8 48 (jet black of course) to go along with the SM7 54 and 58 I already have.   

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:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I'm not quite at 5, but I'm at 4, based on the Vokey wedge  fitting tool, which also is the same that my fitting at TPI produced last year.   I have a  PW at 43 and have ordered a SM8 48 (jet black of course) to go along with the SM7 54 and 58 I already have.   

PW is 45 and then vokey SM7s @ 52/56/60....I am still amazed I have been able to play well without something in between. The debate this off season is try to get a 48 in the SM7 or go with the 790 set....kind of leaning vokeys way

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My take on this...  It depends WHY a player is a high handicap as to whether GI clubs are a benefit over blades etc.  If they hit it out the middle every time, but they aim badly, 3 putt everything, and have poor strategy then even the most forgiving clubs won't help.  

If they struggle with making good, or at least consistent, contact then SGI clubs can help.

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33 minutes ago, Pandaman said:

My take on this...  It depends WHY a player is a high handicap as to whether GI clubs are a benefit over blades etc.  If they hit it out the middle every time, but they aim badly, 3 putt everything, and have poor strategy then even the most forgiving clubs won't help.  

If they struggle with making good, or at least consistent, contact then SGI clubs can help.

I fully agree plus different shaft options can help you get the ball in the air if that is an issue. However I also are not a fan of strong lofts. Mizuno 919 hotmetal and the Cobra F-Max are two that offer weaker lofts 44-45* on PW and 30-31.5* on 7 irons.

What you might want to do is 6-AW(50*)  and then add 3 addition wedges to cover from100yrds to AW length.

The worst I have found with strong lofts are Taylormade. However it is interesting to read the reviews that say that even though they are strong lofted they do not necessarily go further.

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Thank you all. I think I will be going one more time to try some better players clubs and make the decision this week. I strike the clubs well and height is not an issue as I currently fly my 7 135 high. I loose strokes off the tee and on approach shots so iron play of about a 10 or less handicap at least that is what most people I play with or go get lessons with tell me. I guess I’m looking for permission to by a better club. Haha 

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51 minutes ago, BigCountry17 said:

Thank you all. I think I will be going one more time to try some better players clubs and make the decision this week. I strike the clubs well and height is not an issue as I currently fly my 7 135 high. I loose strokes off the tee and on approach shots so iron play of about a 10 or less handicap at least that is what most people I play with or go get lessons with tell me. I guess I’m looking for permission to by a better club. Haha 

Great! Now you have some insights on what to look for as you try new clubs. 

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On 9/26/2020 at 2:56 PM, Lacassem said:

PW is 45 and then vokey SM7s @ 52/56/60....I am still amazed I have been able to play well without something in between. The debate this off season is try to get a 48 in the SM7 or go with the 790 set....kind of leaning vokeys way

Yeah, I’m counting on that 48 to come close to replacing the A wedge i had in the MAVRIK.  It was 47 i think snd it was my fsvorite club in the set.  I was automatic with it from 80 yards (3/4 swing) to 105 yards (full swing). I mean if i didn’t get it with on 10 to 15 feet from those distances, it was very unusual. 

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah, I’m counting on that 48 to come close to replacing the A wedge i had in the MAVRIK.  It was 47 i think snd it was my fsvorite club in the set.  I was automatic with it from 80 yards (3/4 swing) to 105 yards (full swing). I mean if i didn’t get it with on 10 to 15 feet from those distances, it was very unusual. 

If not having that club has taught me anything is how versatile my PW is....can do a lot with that thing now

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  • 4 months later...

Chip Strikes is swinging a 7 iron 105 mph! PGA Tour average is 90 mph with a 172 carry (2019 data from trackman). Now I know can get after a ball if I want to and generate 10 or 15 miles per hour extra speed but there is no way I’m hitting it consistently.  
 

Either way the need to reduce gaps and have the appropriate distances for the bag is clearly what is most important (as stated by others above). First thing is that difference in distances for your long irons should be a lot less than your short irons. My wedges are 14 yards and my 4 to 5 is 9 yards. So make sure you can get those numbers squared away. Then if you can get away with your longest iron being a 5 iron then just stack your bag with a 64, 60, 56 and 52 and find a nice 5 or 4 wood that works just right for that one or two holes on your home course of yours. Also  you can get those loft angles increased 1 or 2 degrees and make sure your set up with a 130 grain steel shaft. It won’t help with your distance issue but it will help with your swing.  

DeChambeau uses one length irons by cobra. They have a set called Cobra King SpeedZone which  are the game improvement version. If I was just picking up the game I would give them a good look. 

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If you are ordering custom clubs after a fitting lofts can be weakened. If you are looking for something not game improvement look no further than the mizuno tours you were fitted in. Looking for something in the middle ground, research a forged set of clubs the best of both worlds between game improvement and blades. If you don’t love the clubs prior to purchasing you’ll never be happy. Don’t attempt to talk yourself in to buying something. I would look at forged options to find a middle ground it seems you are looking for which allows you to grow into the clubs. The posts above make great points but their is not only objective data but subjective that matters also. If you hate the look of the club it won’t work for you in the long run

Edited by RollingGreens
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On 9/25/2020 at 4:41 PM, BigCountry17 said:

One fitter had a GI T300, one Ping g410, one PXG 0311P players, last one Mizuno JPX 921 Tour. So split 50/50. Sorry for the confusion. 
 

driver 270 carry 

3 wood 250 carry 

hybrid 230 carry 

7 iron target is targeted by me at 175 to 180 

Based on that, it sounds to me like your strike zone consistency may not be that accurate and they feel GI category clubs will help you the most.  Some say playing a small size club will force one to become a better ball striker - that debate and how much you care to struggle getting their (assuming you can) is something you'll have to decide.  Aesthetics aside, I'm of the opinion that getting all you can from the latest technology, without sacrificing other needs, such as ball flight workability, etc., is the best approach. Keep in mind that many of the GI designs hit every bit as long as player irons - some much further due to their stronger lofts.  Further, some have really done an excellent job making them less visually offensive to those that just cannot get around that aspect.  You mention distance in your tests but what about ball height, spin, and descent angles, and dispersion... especially dispersion?  

You might want to try Srixon ZX5's.  I think these can be ordered with a weaker/classic loft if needed to trade some distance for trajectory.

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This wont be a popular answer, but here goes. When I first started playing (2018) I had a 117 mph swing speed with a slice that wound up 2 holes over, and an average distance/FIR% I'm embarrassed to talk about. I also had a 200 yard 7i that I couldn't control. I lost more money in balls than I did in bets with my buddies, and that's saying something. My first index was 26.5, and I was determined to lower that with my "I'm a collegiate athlete, I don't need help with my golf game" approach. The day after the 2018 season ended and my index actually got worse I made my first appointment for a lesson. Obviously, my Alpha personality wasn't doing me any favors and I intended to make golf my #1 hobby. Over the winter of 2018/2019 I didn't change my game, I learned MY game, and there's a difference. By the end of the winter break, my 117 mph swing speed/1.10 smash factor averages went to a consistent 112 MPH swing speed and a 1.43 smash. I was straighter by A LOT, distance went from around 240-250 to 270-280. My iron play improved dramatically, I became more consistent on dispersion and distance. If I could only putt.......

 

After the third lesson, my coach talked to me about going for a proper fitting. Although my Callaway Rogue irons were a great product, he was certain they were not right for me. I asked plenty of questions in that conversation, and learned a lot from his answers, and more afterwards with my own research. I booked an appointment with a Top 100 fitter local to me and they were awesome. By the time my session was done I had about 2 pages worth of performance data and club combinations to consider. I wound up choosing the Miura set I'm in now which is in between the game improvement and players distance categories. I know this isn't the exactly the post you wanted to read, but this was my experience having come from a similar place. Good luck on your journey, and I hope you'll update us on your progress. 

Edited by Shank Aaron
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I love reading about the problem of too much club head speed. I’ve never had that problem but I can reference what two pretty good players said. Nicklaus said when he went on tour he could hit his 9 iron 150 yards but made his seven iron his 150 club in order to gain more control. Hogan once said to a young, strong player “you can’t play good golf hitting an 8 iron that far” (I forget the yardage but you get the idea). If you learn how to hit your 7 iron 180 yards instead of 200 you will start shooting good scores and you will have an extra 20 yards in the tank if you need it.  But that doesn’t address the original question. Swinging that fast tells me you’re a good athlete. Get a set of irons that let you feel where on the face you made contact. Your athleticism will allow you to adjust. 

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PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

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I love reading about the problem of too much club head speed. I’ve never had that problem but I can reference what two pretty good players said. Nicklaus said when he went on tour he could hit his 9 iron 150 yards but made his seven iron his 150 club in order to gain more control. Hogan once said to a young, strong player “you can’t play good golf hitting an 8 iron that far” (I forget the yardage but you get the idea). If you learn how to hit your 7 iron 180 yards instead of 200 you will start shooting good scores and you will have an extra 20 yards in the tank if you need it.  But that doesn’t address the original question. Swinging that fast tells me you’re a good athlete. Get a set of irons that let you feel where on the face you made contact. Your athleticism will allow you to adjust. 

I have heard of studies that showed that trying to hit the ball harder than “normal” or less than normal will actually increase you shot distribution. Largely due to people getting out of sequence or trying to control their swing.

I would say to slow down you swing only when you are trying to take off Distance.
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22 hours ago, cnosil said:


I have heard of studies that showed that trying to hit the ball harder than “normal” or less than normal will actually increase you shot distribution. Largely due to people getting out of sequence or trying to control their swing.

I would say to slow down you swing only when you are trying to take off Distance.

I’d also like to add to this from my experience yesterday. A 3/4 swing hitting the center of the face is much more controlled (and consistent) than an all out full swing. Your distance may drop a little but your smaller numbers will be tighter. 

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25 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

I’d also like to add to this from my experience yesterday. A 3/4 swing hitting the center of the face is much more controlled (and consistent) than an all out full swing. Your distance may drop a little but your smaller numbers will be tighter. 

Smaller numbers being tighter hopefully leads to more GIR, leading to lower scores.  Consider lower lofts to adjust for the problem you are having for distance 

Edited by RollingGreens

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