Steel shafts=no divot, graphite shafts=divot. What’s happening?

[Cory O]

Something interesting happened today. I’ve always been a picker with my irons, usually taking no discernible divot, been that way forever. Today, I played with graphite shaft irons for the first time. Same club head as my normal set, both stiff flex, but with these I was consistently taking divots. Not massive pelts or anything, but shallow divots after the ball. Really baffling me.

Can anyone think of any technical reason this would happen? Willing to accept that I’m just subconsciously swinging differently or it’ll be a one time aberration, but curious if there’s other possible explanations.

[Buffly]

@Cory O without specific specs it is only a guess but, let's see what we can think of anyway. If you have video or more club information then more can be guessed. 

1. Graphite shafts can, sometimes, be a little longer because the lighter weight shaft with the same steel length would feel too light. Manufacturers then extend the length to make the swing weight closer/similar.

2. The lighter graphite shaft may, could, might allow you to swing more through the ball before the release causing the perfect forward divot you described. The heavier steel shaft could slow you down causing the flip that helped you pick the ball before. 

Just responding I am opening up myself for the normal MGS police to ridicule armchair advice based on little information and not expert in any way. Please acknowledge that the poster asked for possibilities so, please forego the ridicule and only offer advice and positivity. 

The normal, get lessons, get fit, and only talk to professionals will likely flow forth. The reality is many factors could have come into play that nobody online can perfectly identify. 

Based on the post, it sounds like an improvement rather than the contrary - congrats.

[Pandaman]

My thought is that is just 'different' to what you are used to.  A different shaft (of whatever material) can have different characteristics and give different results, which is the whole point of different shafts.  Either you will adapt naturally and revert to your old pattern, or you will get used to the new one.

[cnosil]

There isn’t enough information to provide a correct answer. The potential reasons are:

The Graphite shafts are lighter

The Graphite shafts are heavier

The Graphite shafts are longer

Lie angle of clubs is different

Swingweight is different

The change in total club weight is making you swing differently


Even though the head is the same model It is a different club and the changes; whatever they are, have caused you to make adjustments.

[russtopherb]

8 hours ago, Buffly said:

Just responding I am opening up myself for the normal MGS police to ridicule armchair advice based on little information and not expert in any way. Please acknowledge that the poster asked for possibilities so, please forego the ridicule and only offer advice and positivity. 

To address the OP - yes sometimes graphite shafts are a fraction longer as noted above so that could be one thing that allowed you to take the divot, another may be the flex and kick of the graphite shaft vs steel and how the clubhead interacted with the turf as a result.

Another thing - could have just been the day. Sometimes I barely take a divot. Sometimes I take a beaver pelt. Varying course conditions can, for me anyways, vary the type of divot I take.

[Shapotomous]

In addition to comparing the length of the clubs against each other can you get a swingweight of each for comparison? 

I find the biggest thing between club sets that I notice is a swingweight difference.  

[MGoBlue100]

I'm wondering if the graphite is causing the head to lag behind EVER so slightly, causing a different interaction at impact.  It would be hard to prove, I suppose, without some high speed camera shots.  I have had a similar problem with (admittedly way older generation) graphite iron shafts.  My dispersion was unbelievable.  Fixed it with steel shafts.

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

There isn’t enough information to provide a correct answer. The potential reasons are:

The Graphite shafts are lighter

The Graphite shafts are heavier

The Graphite shafts are longer

Lie angle of clubs is different

Swingweight is different

The change in total club weight is making you swing differently


Even though the head is the same model It is a different club and the changes; whatever they are, have caused you to make adjustments.

This brings up an interesting aspect of club fitting and something the OP and his fitter would have seen if the fitting had been done of real turf.  That iron fittings only typically include a 7i, and done on artificial turf is, IMO, missing critical data.  Like Cory, I'm a sweeper/grass cutter from 8i down.  This now has me thinking about finding a top end fitter, who can offer long an mid iron data, on terra firma.

Cory, you did not state whether the new strike position is yielding same/better/worse results.  Ball first/turf/divot is regarded as the most powerful, distance yielding sequence...hopefully your seeing better results.

[cnosil]

I'm wondering if the graphite is causing the head to lag behind EVER so slightly, causing a different interaction at impact.  It would be hard to prove, I suppose, without some high speed camera shots.  I have had a similar problem with (admittedly way older generation) graphite iron shafts.  My dispersion was unbelievable.  Fixed it with steel shafts.

Yep, different shaft profile could lead to head lag or the shaft deflecting the head down at impact causing the club to be
More toe down.

[cnosil]

This brings up an interesting aspect of club fitting and something the OP and his fitter would have seen if the fitting had been done of real turf.  That iron fittings only typically include a 7i, and done on artificial turf is, IMO, missing critical data.  Like Cory, I'm a sweeper/grass cutter from 8i down.  This now has me thinking about finding a top end fitter, who can offer long an mid iron data, on terra firma.
Cory, you did not state whether the new strike position is yielding same/better/worse results.  Ball first/turf/divot is regarded as the most powerful, distance yielding sequence...hopefully your seeing better results.

I think the data is on the launch monitors, just not the visual look of more divot. Launch monitors provide lots of info if the fitter knows how to interpret the data.

[Kenny B]

12 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

This brings up an interesting aspect of club fitting and something the OP and his fitter would have seen if the fitting had been done of real turf.  That iron fittings only typically include a 7i, and done on artificial turf is, IMO, missing critical data.  Like Cory, I'm a sweeper/grass cutter from 8i down.  This now has me thinking about finding a top end fitter, who can offer long an mid iron data, on terra firma.

Cory, you did not state whether the new strike position is yielding same/better/worse results.  Ball first/turf/divot is regarded as the most powerful, distance yielding sequence...hopefully your seeing better results.

Just FYI since you are headed to AZ and maybe a fitting.  When I did my full bag fitting last October with TrueSpec, they had me use my 6i off a mat out through a bay door to the range.  Not my favorite club to hit repeatable shots.  I use mine maybe twice a round, one being off the tee on a par 3.  Fortunately, I impressed him with a few good swings!!

 

[fixyurdivot]

3 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Just FYI since you are headed to AZ and maybe a fitting.  When I did my full bag fitting last October with TrueSpec, they had me use my 6i off a mat out through a bay door to the range.  Not my favorite club to hit repeatable shots.  I use mine maybe twice a round, one being off the tee on a par 3.  Fortunately, I impressed him with a few good swings!!

 

You had your fitting done in Bend, OR?  I'd feel lots more confident about an iron fitting that included a 4i or 5i.  If they have that option (club heads), I'd gladly pay more.  It's very common that most of us amateurs don't hit long irons as consistently.  A not so insignificant reason for this is that we are not fitted to them.  We talk about shorter (tour length) driver shafts helping strike consistency and quite often with no loss of distance (sometimes more).  Perhaps this would apply to 3-5i's?  If I was left with the decision to pick one club to base my fitting data and clubhead/shaft decisions, it would be a 6i.... I think .

[Cory O]

Thanks for all the responses y'all. I'll share a bit more about what I know about the specs. The graphite shafts are a quarter inch longer and I believe around 20g lighter, which would drop the swing weight points by 2 by my estimation, but that's just a guess.

I wasn't fit for these clubs *gasp*. The DTC club maker I get my stuff from had a set of my same heads in graphite shafts for a crazy low price (returned set I guess) and I wanted to try graphite shafts so I picked them up. Standard lie and same grip as my steel shaft set.

Haven't had them on any sort of launch monitor yet, but on the course they are producing the same shot shape (my usual draw) with about 5 more yards distance (I assume I'm getting just a bit more clubhead speed out of them). 

I'm thinking there might be something to the idea that the shaft is allowing the head to lag just a bit more behind than they were in the steel shafts. My normal swing has a very neutral shaft position at impact (very little lean, but not flipped). I can take some video of swings to confirm.

Main thing is that I like them! Almost certainly staying in the bag.

[Shapotomous]

A longer shaft and the graphite shaft being a lighter shaft weight would move the counter weight on the weight scale further from the club head (if the club heads are identical weight to the steel shafted set).  This ends up making them a heavier swing weight not lighter.  

If you are hitting them better than this tidbit of info can be useful as you compare other clubs to see if a heavier swing weight continues to translate to better performance for you.  

[Buffly]

4 hours ago, Cory O said:

Thanks for all the responses y'all. I'll share a bit more about what I know about the specs. The graphite shafts are a quarter inch longer and I believe around 20g lighter, which would drop the swing weight points by 2 by my estimation, but that's just a guess.

I wasn't fit for these clubs *gasp*. The DTC club maker I get my stuff from had a set of my same heads in graphite shafts for a crazy low price (returned set I guess) and I wanted to try graphite shafts so I picked them up. Standard lie and same grip as my steel shaft set.

Haven't had them on any sort of launch monitor yet, but on the course they are producing the same shot shape (my usual draw) with about 5 more yards distance (I assume I'm getting just a bit more clubhead speed out of them). 

I'm thinking there might be something to the idea that the shaft is allowing the head to lag just a bit more behind than they were in the steel shafts. My normal swing has a very neutral shaft position at impact (very little lean, but not flipped). I can take some video of swings to confirm.

Main thing is that I like them! Almost certainly staying in the bag.

That's great!!!

[golfish!]

On 9/28/2020 at 2:57 PM, Cory O said:

Thanks for all the responses y'all. I'll share a bit more about what I know about the specs. The graphite shafts are a quarter inch longer and I believe around 20g lighter, which would drop the swing weight points by 2 by my estimation, but that's just a guess.

I wasn't fit for these clubs *gasp*. The DTC club maker I get my stuff from had a set of my same heads in graphite shafts for a crazy low price (returned set I guess) and I wanted to try graphite shafts so I picked them up. Standard lie and same grip as my steel shaft set.

Haven't had them on any sort of launch monitor yet, but on the course they are producing the same shot shape (my usual draw) with about 5 more yards distance (I assume I'm getting just a bit more clubhead speed out of them). 

I'm thinking there might be something to the idea that the shaft is allowing the head to lag just a bit more behind than they were in the steel shafts. My normal swing has a very neutral shaft position at impact (very little lean, but not flipped). I can take some video of swings to confirm.

Main thing is that I like them! Almost certainly staying in the bag.

Just noticed your WITB and saw Gigagolf as the OEM. Never heard of that DTC. What made you go with them vs any of the other DTC brands?

[Cory O]

2 hours ago, golfish! said:

Just noticed your WITB and saw Gigagolf as the OEM. Never heard of that DTC. What made you go with them vs any of the other DTC brands?

Back when I got really into screen golf living in Korea, I needed to build a set of clubs customized to that environment and didn't want to spend a lot of money. GigaGolf met those requirements and shipped to me in Korea at a reasonable price, so I went with them. Everything about the quality and service was great and has continued to be whenever I got stuff from them since. They don't quite have the cool factor or new tech like a Sub70 or Hogan and not quite as many customization options as Maltby, but for the price I really don't think you can do much better. Especially for a beginner or someone just looking to upgrade from super old clubs, you can build a good set that will last for years for less than a box set would cost.

[golfish!]

 

53 minutes ago, Cory O said:

Back when I got really into screen golf living in Korea, I needed to build a set of clubs customized to that environment and didn't want to spend a lot of money. GigaGolf met those requirements and shipped to me in Korea at a reasonable price, so I went with them. Everything about the quality and service was great and has continued to be whenever I got stuff from them since. They don't quite have the cool factor or new tech like a Sub70 or Hogan and not quite as many customization options as Maltby, but for the price I really don't think you can do much better. Especially for a beginner or someone just looking to upgrade from super old clubs, you can build a good set that will last for years for less than a box set would cost.

Ah icic. I hear that screen golf is very big in Korea because green fees and caddy fees can get pretty expensive. What were you doing in Korea?

 

[Cory O]

2 hours ago, golfish! said:

 

Ah icic. I hear that screen golf is very big in Korea because green fees and caddy fees can get pretty expensive. What were you doing in Korea?

 

Initially just teaching English, but then got into corporate training. I was there six years total. For a stretch there, I was playing screen golf 3-4 times per week including pro tournament qualifiers. It's a lot of fun!

And yep, golf is crazy expensive in Korea. ~$150 for the green fee, ~$50 for the caddie fee (the whole group shares a caddie who drives everyone in a massive golf cart) plus tip. The few times I played real golf over there, the courses were incredible and the service was amazing, but still not exactly an accessible game for the masses.