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I read it all the time; people are hesitant to get fit until they have a consistent golf swing. What does this mean?

 

I look at my swing numbers on a launch monitor and they are consistent. I could look at a 20+ handicapper and their swing would be consistent. I believe that unless a person is doing a major swing overhaul the way a person loads the shaft, the weight needed to tighten swing path, and other shaft needs won’t change as a player improves their swing.

 

I am guessing the inconsistencies are related controlling low point, arc depth, and face rotation? If so, aren’t these things players at all levels look to control and manipulate with every swing. Look at any player and they have wide dispersion patterns; both width and depth. They don’t know if the swing they are about to make will be 15 yards left

It right if where they are aiming.

 

When people relate fitting to a consistent golf swing, what do they mean and is there really such a thing as a consistent golf

swing?

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I’ve often posited that some of the issues an amateur has with a “consistent” swing are due to the ill-fitting clubs they play. 

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I think for some it's because their strike location is all over the place - they want to be able to consistently find the middle of the face or somewhere close to it so they can optimize for distance. The problem with that approach however is exactly what's stated above. Golfers - for whatever reason - reject the notion that their clubs may be the larger issue and that a proper fit can help them create a consistent strike pattern.

Personally, I've never been fit simply because brand new properly fit clubs are financially out of reach at the moment. I have enough experience and have been on launch monitors enough to know what works reasonably well for me and have gotten by with used or discount off-the-rack clubs, but I am far from optimized. I still struggle to strike the ball consistently. I've had several plus handicaps and teaching pros compliment my swing and note its consistency, but without properly fit clubs I'll never be able to fully leverage that ability. I've watched enough TXG videos at this point to be convinced of that.

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@cnosil i’ve said before that i’m waiting to get fit for a driver until my swing is more “consistent” 

in reality my swing is consistent: i consistently leave the face open and hit the ball off the heel leading to big pushes and slices.  that’s a swing flaw and not something any driver/shaft combo on the market is going to fix  

what i really mean is that i’m holding off getting fit because going into a hitting bay and slicing a few dozen balls off to the right isn’t going to help a fitter tell me what driver is best for me, and it’s going to be money down the drain. 

once lessons have helped me deliver the club face squarely at impact, i think a fitter is going to be able to make more sense of the shots he sees. 

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I agree that a fitting can help in producing some more consistent results even if you have a swing that is not perfect, and yes for many the poor equipment may be the cause for some. Also for many if you have a good fitter they can help fit something that you can "grow" into as the swing changes a bit. I think everyone can benefit from a well fit set of clubs.

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4 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

in reality my swing is consistent: i consistently leave the face open and hit the ball off the heel leading to big pushes and slices.  that’s a swing flaw and not something any driver/shaft combo on the market is going to fix  

Are you sure? I understand you might have a tendency to leave the face open at impact, but there are ways to tweak closure rate through various shaft/head combos and get you away from the heel. I'm not suggesting that a club fitting will work as a cure all, but a properly fit club will help with your miss.

As I stated in my response above, there are financial reasons not to do a club fitting, but if I had the means I'd go get fit tomorrow and then I'd verify that fit is still good in a year or so. If I start taking lessons again and making considerable changes to my swing, I'd be right back in for another fitting.

Basically, what I'm getting at is I see no good reason to believe a fitting won't help you or that you should put it off unless it is related to finances. At least that's my two cents on the matter.

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28 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Are you sure? I understand you might have a tendency to leave the face open at impact, but there are ways to tweak closure rate through various shaft/head combos and get you away from the heel. I'm not suggesting that a club fitting will work as a cure all, but a properly fit club will help with your miss.

i’m pro fitting. i’ve been fit for all of my clubs. 

with my driver, there’s a definite physical swing issue that needs to be fixed which i feel like supersedes an equipment change. 

i’ll definitely get fit (again) for my driver once i figure that out. 

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There is nothing consistent in golf. 

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1 hour ago, Chip Strokes said:

i’m pro fitting. i’ve been fit for all of my clubs. 

with my driver, there’s a definite physical swing issue that needs to be fixed which i feel like supersedes an equipment change. 

i’ll definitely get fit (again) for my driver once i figure that out. 

Thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense and is a perfectly justified position IMO. What you posted before made that unclear.

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3 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

There is nothing consistent in golf. 

I agree.  But I believe a players swing pattern falls within a consistent range even with high handicappers. 

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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I agree.  But I believe a players swing pattern falls within a consistent range even with high handicappers. 

Go take a lesson and the instructor watches your swing;  you make a couple of swings that you know aren't your best, but the instructor says that's enough.  A good instructor can tell what swing issues you have with a bad swing or a good swing.  Same issues.

From my post in the Summarize you season in five words thread... Consistently inconsistent or just crappy!

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:

I agree.  But I believe a players swing pattern falls within a consistent range even with high handicappers. 

@cnosil - You piqued my interest in DECADE, and in looking at Fawcett's work, even touring pros aren't that consistent with their shot outcomes.  And that's with consistent swings.  I don't have any recent data for myself, but here's an old Trackman report for me:

image.png.3e85a902b043369937a679d43b8dcdbc.png

My clubhead speed is pretty consistent.  My club path varies, but not all that much.  It's not like I go from in-to-out to out-to-in.  Fairly consistent.  Not good, but consistent.  Face angle is a different story.  Is it any wonder that my dispersion is almost 50 yards with an 8 iron?

image.png.ab39d343205cf1f84f26b19f8d6d45c2.png

I'd love to see the data on a higher handicapper; I'd love to know if their path varies much more, or if it's mainly higher variability in the face angle.

I think we confuse consistency of face angle (which has a massive influence on where the ball goes and is pretty tough to control) and consistency of outcome with consistency of the swing itself.  So if finances are not an issue, why wait to get fit?  Are people waiting for something that may never come?

 

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[mention=15174]cnosil[/mention] - You piqued my interest in DECADE, and in looking at Fawcett's work, even touring pros aren't that consistent with their shot outcomes.  And that's with consistent swings.  I don't have any recent data for myself, but here's an old Trackman report for me:
image.png.3e85a902b043369937a679d43b8dcdbc.png
My clubhead speed is pretty consistent.  My club path varies, but not all that much.  It's not like I go from in-to-out to out-to-in.  Fairly consistent.  Not good, but consistent.  Face angle is a different story.  Is it any wonder that my dispersion is almost 50 yards with an 8 iron?
image.png.ab39d343205cf1f84f26b19f8d6d45c2.png
I'd love to see the data on a higher handicapper; I'd love to know if their path varies much more, or if it's mainly higher variability in the face angle.
I think we confuse consistency of face angle (which has a massive influence on where the ball goes and is pretty tough to control) and consistency of outcome with consistency of the swing itself.  So if finances are not an issue, why wait to get fit?  Are people waiting for something that may never come?
 

Thanks for posting the data, this is exactly what I was trying to say in my original post!

Whether you agree with the DECADE approach or not a fan of Scott Fawcett because of how he is perceived on social media the information is eye opening. I think today is the last day for his free month offer.
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Understanding my misses is something that really helped my scoring. I know me wedges always go left for example. It makes it easy to see why pros are always talking about setting up for a one way miss. If you know you can eliminate most of one side there is a real advantage. 

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On 9/29/2020 at 7:02 AM, cnosil said:

 

I read it all the time; people are hesitant to get fit until they have a consistent golf swing. What does this mean?

 

I look at my swing numbers on a launch monitor and they are consistent. I could look at a 20+ handicapper and their swing would be consistent. I believe that unless a person is doing a major swing overhaul the way a person loads the shaft, the weight needed to tighten swing path, and other shaft needs won’t change as a player improves their swing.

 

I am guessing the inconsistencies are related controlling low point, arc depth, and face rotation? If so, aren’t these things players at all levels look to control and manipulate with every swing. Look at any player and they have wide dispersion patterns; both width and depth. They don’t know if the swing they are about to make will be 15 yards left

It right if where they are aiming.

 

When people relate fitting to a consistent golf swing, what do they mean and is there really such a thing as a consistent golf

swing?

 

I suspect they mean that their swing and ball striking is simply too erratic and that they need to reign that in before a club fitting will be worthwhile.  The caveat with what I just said being that their current clubs are reasonably close in proper fit and their not a 28 handicap playing PING Blueprints.  It's my contention that high handicap players spend the $$ on lessons first to develop the basics of the golf swing.  I watched a young guy at the range yesterday who made a reasonable strike about every 5th attempt.  Perhaps his clubs were grossly misfit....dunno.  But even if they were, his swing mechanics were just terrible and my advice to him would be to sign up for lessons.  This, because a competent instructor will quickly recognize grossly misfit clubs and send him off to correct this before moving on.

For the rest of us, battling inconsistency is just part of the game.  Some days we find the groove, some days we don't, and the rest is a smattering of both. Once we've had fittings and feel confident in the results (my case, I don't), our $$ and efforts will be best spent taking lessons or DIY YT drills aimed at improving ball strike consistency.

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I suspect they mean that their swing and ball striking is simply too erratic and that they need to reign that in before a club fitting will be worthwhile.  The caveat with what I just said being that their current clubs are reasonably close in proper fit and their not a 28 handicap playing PING Blueprints.  It's my contention that high handicap players spend the $$ on lessons first to develop the basics of the golf swing.  I watched a young guy at the range yesterday who made a reasonable strike about every 5th attempt.  Perhaps his clubs were grossly misfit....dunno.  But even if they were, his swing mechanics were just terrible and my advice to him would be to sign up for lessons.  This, because a competent instructor will quickly recognize grossly misfit clubs and send him off to correct this before moving on.

For the rest of us, battling inconsistency is just part of the game.  Some days we find the groove, some days we don't, and the rest is a smattering of both. Once we've had fittings and feel confident in the results (my case, I don't), our $$ and efforts will be best spent taking lessons or DIY YT drills aimed at improving ball strike consistency.

Forget the fitting part for a second. We all are inconsistent and hit good balls and bad balls; including pros.

The person on the range that hit 1 in 5, where the other 4 swings that different?

 

I agree with lessons, but will the dynamics of the swing significantly change with lessons that would alter the results if a fitting? After a significant number of lessons we could say yes, but for 98% of the golfers I don’t think there will be radical changes in how a player loads and delivers a club. They will just be able to reign in the face angle and contact point differences.

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

Whether you agree with the DECADE approach or not a fan of Scott Fawcett because of how he is perceived on social media the information is eye opening. I think today is the last day for his free month offer.

I snuck in on that the other day.  I just finished watching the free videos.  I wonder how his stat tracking will work on a short golf course (4600 yards, par 66, 62.1/111)?  Guess I'll find out, because I play most of my golf there.

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13 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

@cnosil - You piqued my interest in DECADE, and in looking at Fawcett's work, even touring pros aren't that consistent with their shot outcomes.  And that's with consistent swings.  I don't have any recent data for myself, but here's an old Trackman report for me:

image.png.3e85a902b043369937a679d43b8dcdbc.png

My clubhead speed is pretty consistent.  My club path varies, but not all that much.  It's not like I go from in-to-out to out-to-in.  Fairly consistent.  Not good, but consistent.  Face angle is a different story.  Is it any wonder that my dispersion is almost 50 yards with an 8 iron?

image.png.ab39d343205cf1f84f26b19f8d6d45c2.png

I'd love to see the data on a higher handicapper; I'd love to know if their path varies much more, or if it's mainly higher variability in the face angle.

I think we confuse consistency of face angle (which has a massive influence on where the ball goes and is pretty tough to control) and consistency of outcome with consistency of the swing itself.  So if finances are not an issue, why wait to get fit?  Are people waiting for something that may never come?

 

This was taken last October before any lessons. The three rounds prior to this fitting I had shot 87, 94 and 95, which basically works out to 17-25 handicap range type of stuff. Pretty normal for me pre-lessons.

image.png.cb9f5266634ad62f62b7dd9b6287b497.png

image.png.21319cf344f9aeb189988290314fe55e.png

Obviously a fairly tight pattern in attack angle, path, and face. I'd say that was pretty consistent.

Just to prove a point about how fitting could help, that day I hit a bunch of different shaft combinations on JPX 919 Forged heads:

image.png.e4892e647b0be484b0154fa1439545de.png

I'm obviously consistently left, but consistency in distance changed dramatically between different shafts. Just a thought.

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

I agree with lessons, but will the dynamics of the swing significantly change with lessons that would alter the results if a fitting?

Yes, I think so.  It is much easier for a fitter to really fine tune the club/shaft selection with someone who is not spraying balls all over the fitting station.  It's hard to establish baseline data if it is highly erratic. Also, I'm firmly in the "it's at least 90% archer, not the arrow" camp.  Again, short of a gross mismatch in the club specs my example was swinging, a fitting would not be his next best investment IMO.  

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I'd say golf is all about learning, going to a fitting or a lesson maybe not achieve what was expected, but one can may learn something about their game that lead to something beneficial.

 

 

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