Manimal26 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said: Very good point on the durability as that will factor into the "lifetime costs" if you will, which is a metric consumer reports uses, that I give strong credence to when I'm car shopping. One of the guys in our shop that I play with from time to time is a + cap, he prefers the ProVX but will from time to time play another ball for the round that a rep may have given him. He doesn't hit many trees or cart paths on a given round,. so it's usually an apt comparison, almost always the ProvX is in like new shape at the end of the round. Some of the others he has tried, look like they've been through 10 rounds. I will say there should be a cut off for balls that make it to a durability test just because of the amount time it might take to do right although I feel it should be done on all of them because it could improve the true price of some of the balls that have already been reviewed, but the problem lies in knowing you get 12 good balls out of the box. However on balls that we can confidently say all 12 in a box will be playable I feel it has to be done to get a true price. If you are having to replace lets say 1/4 of the MTB-X every round it effectively makes the true price $41.25/box (still better than most) Say after 4 rounds all the balls are trash now you have to buy a new box making the true price $82.50, because where with the ProV's if you go 4 rounds and it is still good and you are into your second box of MTB-X the snell has become much more expensive compared to the proV's.... however that second metric only works assuming the prov1 holds up over 4 rounds. Lets say 3 good bad though it makes the MTB-X around $61.88/box when compared to the Prov1... I know I made 2 different metrics one factoring in Durability ($41.25/box) and the other cost of replacement vs ProV1 ($61.88 with 3 prov's bad & $82.50 with no prov's bad) Quote Driver: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X Woods: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X Hybrid: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X Irons: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X Wedges: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60 Putter: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft Ball: ProV1X-Optic Yellow Bag: Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal26 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said: I'm not overly familiar with hardness testing, but I'd suspect that t to be the best way to try and gauge the durability of a golf ball. Anything else you might do is just up to chance - conditions, strike location, attack angle, variation in wedge grooves, moisture, etc. all impact the likelihood of a ball's cover becoming damaged during the course of play. I guess you could also shoot a ball directly at a club face or plate of steel, but it would need to take place in a controlled environment to yield meaningful results. Even still, that wouldn't offer any guarantee's for the individual as we all use different equipment, play in different conditions, and have vastly different swings and impact dynamics. I once pulled a brand new ball out of the sleeve, played it off the tee, hit my second shot into a bunker, and hit out. When I grabbed my ball off the green to clean it, it had a large gouge in it from the bunker shot. Could have been the simple interaction of sand and club face on the ball, or there could have been some small pebble or something. It's impossible to say for sure - it could have just been a bad ball. My point is, while durability is certainly an important factor in evaluating the overall performance of a golf ball, how we experience and perceive durability on the golf course can be vastly different. I'm not sure how much value it would truly add to Ball Lab other than to make note of the physical properties of the cover material - which is why I think a hardness test would be best suited for it. You could do like they do with tires. Use a robot and hit the ball over and over again. Total number of strikes required to make ball unplayable /12 = Avg per that ball which can be converted to a metric for comparison. Second sand test soft med hard. This could be done in a controlled environment with limited factors. Cart path bounce could be done with a ball cannon with various ball speeds etc. My point is lots could be done. Durability is a huge factor if the box of 12 balls is all playable, Chip Strokes 1 Quote Driver: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X Woods: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X Hybrid: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X Irons: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X Wedges: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60 Putter: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft Ball: ProV1X-Optic Yellow Bag: Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, Manimal26 said: You could do like they do with tires. Use a robot and hit the ball over and over again. Total number of strikes required to make ball unplayable /12 = Avg per that ball which can be converted to a metric for comparison. Second sand test soft med hard. This could be done in a controlled environment with limited factors. Cart path bounce could be done with a ball cannon with various ball speeds etc. My point is lots could be done. Durability is a huge factor if the box of 12 balls is all playable, Yes you could do that, but as I said in my response before how that translates to the individual golfer would vary greatly. We aren't all the same or play in the same conditions. So, what might not seem very durable to you, could be very durable to someone else. And also, it could have just simply been a bad lot of golf balls. I'm not arguing that durability isn't an important factor, but unless something is clearly wrong with the cover akin to what MGS found with the Kirkland balls (https://mygolfspy.com/costco-issues-refunds-for-defective-4-piece-kirkland-signature-performance-one-golf-balls/) I'd consider it a performance characteristic. I wouldn't lump cover durability in as a quality metric because cover hardness is a designed spec. Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal26 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, TR1PTIK said: Yes you could do that, but as I said in my response before how that translates to the individual golfer would vary greatly. We aren't all the same or play in the same conditions. So, what might not seem very durable to you, could be very durable to someone else. And also, it could have just simply been a bad lot of golf balls. I'm not arguing that durability isn't an important factor, but unless something is clearly wrong with the cover akin to what MGS found with the Kirkland balls I'd consider it a performance characteristic. I wouldn't lump cover durability in as a quality metric because cover hardness is a designed spec. Just like made for shafts vs after market different materials are used that cause tolerance and quality differences. In order to get a DTC cost where it is attractive to the public I would imagine less expensive chemicals or quality of them are used. Even the chemicals themselves used have tolerances and purity factors. Quote Driver: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X Woods: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X Hybrid: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X Irons: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X Wedges: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60 Putter: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft Ball: ProV1X-Optic Yellow Bag: Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Manimal26 said: Just like made for shafts vs after market different materials are used that cause tolerance and quality differences. In order to get a DTC cost where it is attractive to the public I would imagine less expensive chemicals or quality of them are used. Even the chemicals themselves used have tolerances and purity factors. Agree to disagree then... Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal26 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 just thought of something else that needs to be considered in as well. Snell with 5 boxes of less gives you free shipping but companies like Vice charge shipping for a single box or 5 charge $6.99. So where the vice is $34.99 its base price is really $41 and I have to wait where I can go just about anywhere and ProV1's are the same price... If a DTC charges shipping that has to be factored into the true price... Way to go Snell for not charging! Quote Driver: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X Woods: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X Hybrid: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X Irons: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X Wedges: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60 Putter: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft Ball: ProV1X-Optic Yellow Bag: Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, Manimal26 said: just thought of something else that needs to be considered in as well. Snell with 5 boxes of less gives you free shipping but companies like Vice charge shipping for a single box or 5 charge $6.99. So where the vice is $34.99 its base price is really $41 and I have to wait where I can go just about anywhere and ProV1's are the same price... If a DTC charges shipping that has to be factored into the true price... Way to go Snell for not charging! I don't think that's necessarily the case. I'm sure there are a lot of golfers who order online and get balls shipped to them, depending on their location and proximity to a store where they can get their preferred brand. I'll just use Budget Golf as an example, since I just saw an email from them - if I go to their online store and order a dozen ProV1, I'm looking at $9.99 shipping as their cheapest option. Does this happen a lot? Probably not. But I don't think that shipping fees should be taken into consideration because buying opportunities are going to vary based on golfer location, preferred method of purchasing, preferred method of shipping, etc. and all of those can impact the overall total cost of the balls. GolfSpy BOS and MattF 2 Quote In my carry bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h Launcher CBX 6i-PW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 e12 Contact CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtActual Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Durability is something I've been valuing more lately. I bought the Titleist Tour Speed when it came out, and noticed in my first round with them that they cut VERY easily. Titleist offered me a sleeve as a consolation, and surprise, the first wedge shot with one of the news ones, and it cut too. Quote Tiger is the GOAT, change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlow206 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 By the time durability will become a factor, I will have for sure already lost that ball TR1PTIK, MattF and rforziati 3 Quote Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft Updated 07/15/2022 Driver: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex Fairway Woods: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood Irons: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip Wedges: Glide 4.0 54 and 58 Putter: PLD Custom Kushin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 I don't think that's necessarily the case. I'm sure there are a lot of golfers who order online and get balls shipped to them, depending on their location and proximity to a store where they can get their preferred brand. I'll just use Budget Golf as an example, since I just saw an email from them - if I go to their online store and order a dozen ProV1, I'm looking at $9.99 shipping as their cheapest option. Does this happen a lot? Probably not. But I don't think that shipping fees should be taken into consideration because buying opportunities are going to vary based on golfer location, preferred method of purchasing, preferred method of shipping, etc. and all of those can impact the overall total cost of the balls. I think it’s different for DTC brand balls that you cannot go to a store to get if they charge shipping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, B.Boston said: I think it’s different for DTC brand balls that you cannot go to a store to get if they charge shipping. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes I get that but shipping charges may vary based on location, preferred method of shipping, etc. So probably best to just go with retail price and leave it at that. MattF and TR1PTIK 2 Quote In my carry bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h Launcher CBX 6i-PW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 e12 Contact CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Whew! I've been playing Snell MTB's almost exclusively for at least 3 years, so I'm pleased to see they're still considered a good quality tour ball - I know I have been 100% satisfied with distance, trajectory, spin & durability. I buy a dozen Pro V1's about once a year, but I play Snell MTB's only otherwise. It's a great ball at a great price! GolfSpy_SHARK and MattF 2 Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBWarPig Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Manimal26 said: At this point a durability test should be factored in. Just because you can have confidence that you can buy a box and all 12 will be playable does not mean they will hold up the same. From this article it makes it look like the best option for a tour level ball is clearly the MTB-X. That being said I have my own first hand experience testing this ball at great lengths vs my gamer the ProV1x. Of The box of Snell’s I purchased only 6 balls made it through to the end of the round and none were lost. On full wedge shots and bunker shots (Texas sand not so soft could be a factor) the ball simply did not hold up. Thankfully Tony and the team do actual data driven testing, not single person anecdotal results. I've played the same Snell for multiple rounds without any cuts from full wedge shots on brand new Vokeys, and Iowa "sand" is less sand and more gravel. TR1PTIK, russtopherb, GolfSpy_SHARK and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Mavrik Sub Zero,10°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X 3W: Mavrik Sub Zero, 15°, Aldila Rogue Silver 70X 3H: Mavrik Sub Zero, 18°, KBS Tour Hybrid 75S 4i-PW: Mavrik Pro, +1°, True Temper Elevate Tour S, Standard Lie Wedges: SM8 - 50°/12F, 54°/14F, 58°/14K Putter: Special Select Squareback 2, 35" Ball: MTB-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxEntropy Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 hours ago, TR1PTIK said: I went back through the other ball labs to confirm, but concentricity was mentioned in every other report to date. For some, Tony gave numbers, others he did not so it's hard to really compare directly with the data provided, but based on what he did say it does appear Snell had the most issues. However, it's important to note that while 50% may have had visibly noticeable concentricity issues, only 3% were speculated to have any real impact on performance. It is unlikely you'd notice any difference whatsoever if playing the other balls. IMO, minor simply means that he could see a difference. Maybe he's even taken calipers to some of the balls and has actual data to quantify minor vs. major, but the impact on playability is nil. I guess that's my point - I think Tony should spell out what he means by minor versus major. Is a couple thousandths minor or are we talking twenty thousandths? More? I agree with you though - with my swing, I'll likely never notice anything that I could reliably blame on the ball. Unless the ball breaks in half - then I can blame the ball. GolfSpy_SHARK, GregGarner, TR1PTIK and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X 3W: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES 3H, 4H: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES 4-AW: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105 SW: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54* LW: TAIII Black 58* Putter: Scottsdale TR Senita Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite Ball: TP5x or AVX (yellow) Pushcart: BigMax iQ+ Testing Complete, Final Review Posted: Sub70 TAIII Forged Wedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, MaxEntropy said: I guess that's my point - I think Tony should spell out what he means by minor versus major. Is a couple thousandths minor or are we talking twenty thousandths? More? I agree with you though - with my swing, I'll likely never notice anything that I could reliably blame on the ball. Unless the ball breaks in half - then I can blame the ball. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say Tony is just giving it the eyeball test. I have little doubt though that the kind of hard data you and I are looking for is out there or at the very least easy to obtain. I can't imagine that any of the OEMs would not have looked at this before to determine the exact point of failure. MattF, GolfSpy_SHARK and MaxEntropy 3 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, MaxEntropy said: I guess that's my point - I think Tony should spell out what he means by minor versus major. Is a couple thousandths minor or are we talking twenty thousandths? More? I agree with you though - with my swing, I'll likely never notice anything that I could reliably blame on the ball. Unless the ball breaks in half - then I can blame the ball. As long as Tony uses the same standard applied to every ball (I’m sure he does), I don’t care if he does/doesn’t spell it out. If every ball model had defects, or none did, the measurements could be suspect - that doesn’t appear to be the case. MattF, TR1PTIK and MaxEntropy 3 Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Manimal26 said: I have been waiting to comment on my thoughts till I saw a Snell ball go up since I feel it might be the standard of DTC balls. I honestly feel the ball lab true cost is missing something very critical when factoring in the true price of a ball. However, this should only apply to balls that reach the level of the Snell or ProV’s. At this point a durability test should be factored in. Just because you can have confidence that you can buy a box and all 12 will be playable does not mean they will hold up the same. From this article it makes it look like the best option for a tour level ball is clearly the MTB-X. That being said I have my own first hand experience testing this ball at great lengths vs my gamer the ProV1x. Of The box of Snell’s I purchased only 6 balls made it through to the end of the round and none were lost. On full wedge shots and bunker shots (Texas sand not so soft could be a factor) the ball simply did not hold up. The ProV1x I can go multiple rounds with the same ball (as long as I don’t sink it). But of course some of this could be my own thoughts from the disappointment I had from Snell. I will say the MTB-X performance is on par 100% when good, but once the true price is established and the ball has the metrics of the Snell or ProV’s a durability Assessment needs to be done and added to the true price. This is something that I would like to see happen hopefully! I have the same issue with the Prov1x that you described with the Snell, so bad that I switched to Bridgestone after playing Titleist for my entire golfing career. In fact the last iteration to me was the least durable they have put out in 10+ years. Which makes it tough to do a true durability test. TR1PTIK 1 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said: I have the same issue with the Prov1x that you described with the Snell, so bad that I switched to Bridgestone after playing Titleist for my entire golfing career. In fact the last iteration to me was the least durable they have put out in 10+ years. Which makes it tough to do a true durability test. I made an edit to my first response on this topic after a bit of research. I was a little convinced that some sort of hardness test would be the best way to estimate durability, but after a bit of research I am a lot convinced (if that even makes sense to anyone lol). Durability is just a hard one to really spell out because golf balls are designed with a variety of performance characteristics in mind. In some cases, that could mean a harder more durable cover, and in others it could mean a softer less durable cover. It could even be, based on the exact material composition, that harder is less durable in some instances. Just food for thought. THEZIPR23 and MattF 2 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, dlow206 said: By the time durability will become a factor, I will have for sure already lost that ball Though I understand the point some are making about durability, I lose WAY more balls (still in good or better shape) than I wear out. Frankly I’m proud of myself when I do wear one out occasionally... TR1PTIK, dlow206, GregGarner and 1 other 4 Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal26 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, GBWarPig said: Thankfully Tony and the team do actual data driven testing, not single person anecdotal results. I've played the same Snell for multiple rounds without any cuts from full wedge shots on brand new Vokeys, and Iowa "sand" is less sand and more gravel. So first if you read anything I was asking for the durability to be factored in by a data driven test... not just one mans opinion... and only for the best of the ball lab since they are most likely to have all 12 balls playable... I also said for this to be tested after since Tony has put in a years worth of work just to get to this point Quote Driver: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X Woods: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X Hybrid: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X Irons: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X Wedges: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60 Putter: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft Ball: ProV1X-Optic Yellow Bag: Pioneer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 At this price, with this high quality, I have to try this ball.Take Dead Aim MattF, GolfSpy_SHARK, GolfSpy BOS and 1 other 4 Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Bought three doz in September and I love these over my Pro V1X. So nice to see they came out well in the. Ball test. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy TR1PTIK, GolfSpy BOS, MattF and 2 others 5 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Based on what I read in the review about the Snell I bought the mixed dozen trial pack - 6 each of the MTB-X and Black. They arrived very quick, within a few days. I usually play a ProV1 or 1x. I tried the MTB-X first and only got to use it for 9 holes so far but my initial impression is it played well. My driver & iron distance with the Snell was what I am used to and the iron shots were spinny enough to hold greens like normal. It felt fine putting and chipping too. The only issue I saw was a small scuff mark after a fairway trap shot. I caught the shot clean enough to get the full yardage to the green and didn't notice if it was on there before I hit it so I am not sure if it was from landing there or from hitting it out. I didn't see any marks on it from regular iron use. I managed to not lose it yet so I will play the same ball some more to see how it holds up. The spousal unit (12 handicap) also used an MTB-X for 18 recently and said her driver & iron distance was consistent with the ProV. I asked about holding greens, chipping and putting but she said she didn't really pay attention to those details but didn't notice anything way off either. MattF, GregGarner and Middler 3 Quote Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shapotomous Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Played the MTB-X again yesterday for about 16 holes and again was impressed with distance and spin performance, no difference than the ProV's for me. I had a couple greenside bunker shots and had no scuff after those shots. I lost the last of my allotment of MTB-X from the trial dozen so I will try out the MTB Black next. GregGarner and Middler 2 Quote Modern Bag: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex; 915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex; Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0; Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S; Heppler Fetch; Ball - MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder Classic Bag: Driver - Persimmon; 3w - Speed Slot; 5w - Tour Block; 3 - pw - Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson; putter - bullseye standard or flange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscho Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Has anyone had any experience playing the MTB Black vs the MTB X? On Snell's website they say to play the MTB Black if you normally play a Pro V1 instead of a Pro V1X because of the softer feel. I'm a 10 hdcp and play the Pro V1 over the Pro V1x, but the metrics and results of the MGS test for the MTB X are hard to deny, so I'm just curious if people are getting the same or similar results with added yardage and low driver spin with the MTB Black when compared to the MTB X. If both golf balls are the same in terms of distance and low driver spin, then I guess it just comes down to how much spin do you want and do you want softer feel compression vs slightly less. I should probably buy a test pack and try for myself, but wanted to reach out first and see what other members were experiencing between the 2 balls. Thanks! Micah T 1 Quote Titleist 913 D2/15* wood/18* Hybrid AP2 4-PW KBS Tour X-Stiff 50*/54*/56*/58* Vokey Wedges SC Newport 2 - 33" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregGarner Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, jscho said: Has anyone had any experience playing the MTB Black vs the MTB X? Haven't played a full dozen, but I've had a couple balls of each and can confirm they are two completely different golf balls. The Black is soft and actually reminds me a lot of the regular Srixon Z-Star, which I find to be softer and spinnier than the ProV1. For me, I definitely prefer the X which has a nice click to it and gives me a lot more control and distance (for comparison, I also prefer the Z-Star XV over the regular) MattF 1 Quote Driver: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X 3-wood: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S 5-wood: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S 2i: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff 4hy: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S 4i-7i ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S 50*, 55* RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125 60* RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400 Putter: Toulon Chicago with a Quad Tour or HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in Ball: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some Left Dashes hanging around) Bag: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow Using to keep track of my shots Tested: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review Vero X2 - Official Review The Stack System - Official Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 I just switched to the Black from the MTB-X because of the softer feel. Spin seems the same to me for approach shots. I am probably going to stick with the Black. GregGarner 1 Quote In the bag: Driver: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Alpha Convoy 514 Balls: Chrome Soft X Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscho Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 1 hour ago, MattF said: I just switched to the Black from the MTB-X because of the softer feel. Spin seems the same to me for approach shots. I am probably going to stick with the Black. What about distance? Still the same between the 2 or is one longer than the other? Quote Titleist 913 D2/15* wood/18* Hybrid AP2 4-PW KBS Tour X-Stiff 50*/54*/56*/58* Vokey Wedges SC Newport 2 - 33" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm319 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 hours ago, jscho said: Has anyone had any experience playing the MTB Black vs the MTB X? On Snell's website they say to play the MTB Black if you normally play a Pro V1 instead of a Pro V1X because of the softer feel. I'm a 10 hdcp and play the Pro V1 over the Pro V1x, but the metrics and results of the MGS test for the MTB X are hard to deny, so I'm just curious if people are getting the same or similar results with added yardage and low driver spin with the MTB Black when compared to the MTB X. If both golf balls are the same in terms of distance and low driver spin, then I guess it just comes down to how much spin do you want and do you want softer feel compression vs slightly less. I should probably buy a test pack and try for myself, but wanted to reach out first and see what other members were experiencing between the 2 balls. Thanks! Spin difference off the driver and around the greens will be negligible. Initial launch for most similarly constructed balls is usually negligible as well as peak apex being similar given the fact that both of these share the same dimple pattern. The differences in these two models lie in a) iron spin (slightly higher with the X) and b) feel (slightly harder all around for the X). MattF 1 Quote TS2 9.5 909F2 15.5 690.CB 3-PW Vokey SM5 50, 56 Works Versa 1W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscho Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 2 hours ago, greggarner said: Haven't played a full dozen, but I've had a couple balls of each and can confirm they are two completely different golf balls. The Black is soft and actually reminds me a lot of the regular Srixon Z-Star, which I find to be softer and spinnier than the ProV1. For me, I definitely prefer the X which has a nice click to it and gives me a lot more control and distance (for comparison, I also prefer the Z-Star XV over the regular) Do you think the distance with the X is enough to warrant using it over the Black? I know "harder" golf balls go further typically but if its a matter of the X giving me 15 more yards off the tee vs the Black then I might have to consider going with the X. GregGarner and GolfSpy BOS 2 Quote Titleist 913 D2/15* wood/18* Hybrid AP2 4-PW KBS Tour X-Stiff 50*/54*/56*/58* Vokey Wedges SC Newport 2 - 33" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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