Reasons for Super High Ball Flight

[ZMendle10]

Anyone have any possible suggestions as to why I could be launching the ball way to high? Aside from slightly scooping the ball a little bit I still launch the ball much higher then I would like and shots into light wind can end up losing 20 yards. Is this mostly from scooping or could my P790's be adding additional launch that is not really needed?

[ejgaudette]

There are of course a number of factors that could be affecting this. Spin can be something to consider, especially into the wind which will kick up the spin, though the P790 are generally lower spin. As you mention launch might be too high depending on your club head speed, and potentially adding dynamic loft during the swing. It sounds like the best option would be to get on a launch monitor, preferably a GC Quad to get the  club head data, with a professional club fitter or coach who can help you understand what is going on. Tough to guess at this point, but getting some more data about your launch and delivery conditions would be the place to start.

[cnosil]

What launch angles are you seeing? The reason I ask is most people people think that they launch high but really don’t.

[ZMendle10]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What launch angles are you seeing? The reason I ask is most people people think that they launch high but really don’t.

I don't have that information yet. I'm planning on doing a gapping session on trackman at my local range this weekend to have all the data for my entire set. Will definitely be getting back to you on that once I've completed the gapping session though.

[ZMendle10]

34 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

There are of course a number of factors that could be affecting this. Spin can be something to consider, especially into the wind which will kick up the spin, though the P790 are generally lower spin. As you mention launch might be too high depending on your club head speed, and potentially adding dynamic loft during the swing. It sounds like the best option would be to get on a launch monitor, preferably a GC Quad to get the  club head data, with a professional club fitter or coach who can help you understand what is going on. Tough to guess at this point, but getting some more data about your launch and delivery conditions would be the place to start.

Agreed. After I get trackman data I will definitely have a better idea of what's actually going on. 

[StrawberryShortCake]

How do you know your launching high? Do you have something to compare it too? I launch higher than most people I play with and they scoop the ball. I'm compressing the ball and getting more distance and height than the guys I regularly play with. unless I think the piss out of it hahah.

[ZMendle10]

18 minutes ago, StrawberryShortCake said:

How do you know your launching high? Do you have something to compare it too? I launch higher than most people I play with and they scoop the ball. I'm compressing the ball and getting more distance and height than the guys I regularly play with. unless I think the piss out of it hahah.

Regardless of who I play with I always have the highest ball flight of my playing partners by a substantial amount. I very well could be compressing the ball but I always thought that compressing the ball and scooping were mutually exclusive so if you were doing one you weren't doing the other.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, ZMendle10 said:

Regardless of who I play with I always have the highest ball flight of my playing partners by a substantial amount. I very well could be compressing the ball but I always thought that compressing the ball and scooping were mutually exclusive so if you were doing one you weren't doing the other.

We are not saying you don't hit it high,  but launch angles and peak height will answer that question.   Most people hit the ball too low.  

[ZMendle10]

Just now, cnosil said:

We are not saying you don't hit it high,  but launch angles and peak height will answer that question.   Most people hit the ball too low.  

Very fair. won't know for sure until Saturday then.

[ejgaudette]

Hope everything goes well then and hope you find out some good data about your swing.

[newballcoach]

On 9/30/2020 at 5:26 PM, ZMendle10 said:

Regardless of who I play with I always have the highest ball flight of my playing partners by a substantial amount. I very well could be compressing the ball but I always thought that compressing the ball and scooping were mutually exclusive so if you were doing one you weren't doing the other.

As someone who fights the scoop I have to imagine that is your issue. If you scoop you are going to hit it higher and shorter. You might also have the face a bit could cause even higher flight (and the ball to start a bit more right). 

I would try and video your swing face on (or ask a playing partner to do it) so you get an idea of what you're doing at impact. If your hands are behind the ball, then you're scooping and I would imagine that is the root cause of what you're seeing. 

[ZMendle10]

17 hours ago, newballcoach said:

As someone who fights the scoop I have to imagine that is your issue. If you scoop you are going to hit it higher and shorter. You might also have the face a bit could cause even higher flight (and the ball to start a bit more right). 

I would try and video your swing face on (or ask a playing partner to do it) so you get an idea of what you're doing at impact. If your hands are behind the ball, then you're scooping and I would imagine that is the root cause of what you're seeing. 

I have been able to record my swing and my hands do get a little scoopy just before impact so this is most likely the case. I still haven't made it onto a trackman yet to get any real solid numbers on launching conditions yet unfortunately. 

[newballcoach]

14 hours ago, ZMendle10 said:

I have been able to record my swing and my hands do get a little scoopy just before impact so this is most likely the case. I still haven't made it onto a trackman yet to get any real solid numbers on launching conditions yet unfortunately. 

I have to be honest, getting on a trackman probably isn't going to help you. If you keep flipping at impact, you're going to keep doing so and until you fix that issue, the launch problem isn't going away. No offence, but I don't see what help getting some numbers is going to be.

[ZMendle10]

I was finally able to get on trackman yesterday and get some data on my shots. Those averages are about a sample size of between 5-10 similar shots based on smash factor and spin rate. My current gamers are the 2019 P790's and the data for my irons 5i through 9i can be seen below. 

 

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

I was finally able to get on trackman yesterday and get some data on my shots. Those averages are about a sample size of between 5-10 similar shots based on smash factor and spin rate. My current gamers are the 2019 P790's and the data for my irons 5i through 9i can be seen below. 

 

I am not a clubfitter,  but from what I know those numbers look pretty good.  For the clubspeed the launch angle, spin, contact, and descent angle look like they are within desired parameters. 

[ZMendle10]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

I am not a clubfitter,  but from what I know those numbers look pretty good.  For the clubspeed the launch angle, spin, contact, and descent angle look like they are within desired parameters. 

I am not either and I feel like the numbers do line up despite rewatching my swing on video (as each shot was recorded) and each shot was scoopy a bit. Anyone fitters who can help shed light on the data would be appreciated.

[Buffly]

46 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

I was finally able to get on trackman yesterday and get some data on my shots. Those averages are about a sample size of between 5-10 similar shots based on smash factor and spin rate. My current gamers are the 2019 P790's and the data for my irons 5i through 9i can be seen below. 

 

Curious what kind of ball flight you normally produce? Straight, push, pull, draw, fade, pull-fade, push-draw, etc? 

I found the numbers interesting in the difference between the 9i and 8i. The dynamic lofts were only 0.7° different and the launch angle was only 0.1° different. The 10 yard gap came from the slower club head speed and slightly higher spin on the 9i. 

The swing plane on the 8i & 9i is drastically different than the rest - either an over the top move or standing to close to the ball are just guesses?

The 7i looks like the oddball, and where the short irons start to get squirrelly, with the biggest yardage Gap from the 6i to the 7i and another leap to the 8i. Are you a tall person playing standard length and standard lie? Or do you have a high wrist to floor?  You seem to hit the 5 & 6 irons just fine but, the rest have a descent angle that is a bit more steep than would seem ideal - reflecting the higher ball flight you originally mentioned. 

The rabbit hole is open...

[ZMendle10]

1 hour ago, Buffly said:

Curious what kind of ball flight you normally produce? Straight, push, pull, draw, fade, pull-fade, push-draw, etc? 

I found the numbers interesting in the difference between the 9i and 8i. The dynamic lofts were only 0.7° different and the launch angle was only 0.1° different. The 10 yard gap came from the slower club head speed and slightly higher spin on the 9i. 

The swing plane on the 8i & 9i is drastically different than the rest - either an over the top move or standing to close to the ball are just guesses?

The 7i looks like the oddball, and where the short irons start to get squirrelly, with the biggest yardage Gap from the 6i to the 7i and another leap to the 8i. Are you a tall person playing standard length and standard lie? Or do you have a high wrist to floor?  You seem to hit the 5 & 6 irons just fine but, the rest have a descent angle that is a bit more steep than would seem ideal - reflecting the higher ball flight you originally mentioned. 

The rabbit hole is open...

I was evaluating myself while doing my gapping session and seeing a few things that I could change which could account for the 5 & 6 irons being fine because that's when I started to make more changes. 

I am 5' 10" and wrist to floor is 36". My irons are 1/2" longer than standard length and std lie angle with the reason being I was standing pretty close to the ball during my fitting. I could have been steep but I'm not going to go into much detail and changes here with that. I'm just curious numbers wise. 

I have officially opened pandora's box and we shall see where it goes.

*Edit*

I forgot to answer the ball flight question but it is usually high to the point i never consider rollout. My approach game with my irons is as drop and stop as a 90 yard wedge shot. Unfortunately Whenever there is wind it reeks absolute havoc on me and a 1 club wind I tend to play it as 2.

Edited November 11, 2020 by ZMendle10

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I am not a clubfitter,  but from what I know those numbers look pretty good.  For the clubspeed the launch angle, spin, contact, and descent angle look like they are within desired parameters. 

My thoughts as well.  I also think @newballcoachmay be onto something and a your release point may be contributing.  I too tend to be in the high ball flight group and sometimes feel it a detriment on distance.  But then I often hear guys I play with say "damn, I'd give up one to have that ball flight"... even your mid irons drop like a sack of sand on the green. 

I'm currently experimenting with a set of Cobra Forged Tours with Recoil ES460/F4 shafts.  Those are launching slightly higher and I certainly don't want more height.  But then I need to remember they are not as strong lofted - so I'm not sure what I'm seeing/ascertaining... so yea, I'm totally with you on the Pandora's Box .

[ZMendle10]

22 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

My thoughts as well.  I also think @newballcoachmay be onto something and a your release point may be contributing.  I too tend to be in the high ball flight group and sometimes feel it a detriment on distance.  But then I often hear guys I play with say "damn, I'd give up one to have that ball flight"... even your mid irons drop like a sack of sand on the green. 

I'm currently experimenting with a set of Cobra Forged Tours with Recoil ES460/F4 shafts.  Those are launching slightly higher and I certainly don't want more height.  But then I need to remember they are not as strong lofted - so I'm not sure what I'm seeing/ascertaining... so yea, I'm totally with you on the Pandora's Box .

My mid irons have that same effect as well and as much as I enjoy being able to scale towering trees with ease and stopping on the greens with minimal rollout I am in trouble whenever there is even the slightest breeze.

[fixyurdivot]

6 minutes ago, ZMendle10 said:

My mid irons have that same effect as well and as much as I enjoy being able to scale towering trees with ease and stopping on the greens with minimal rollout I am in trouble whenever there is even the slightest breeze.

This is what separates us from the low single digit and pro players - the ability to change swing, stance, grip, whatever and attain ball flights on demand.  

[cnosil]

This is what separates us from the low single digit and pro players - the ability to change swing, stance, grip, whatever and attain ball flights on demand.  

At least for me, I don’t change those things. Ball position changes height and I play single ball flight. I don’t think there is a need to do any shaping of shots. Do what you normally do.