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Length of Stroke :backstroke vs forward stroke


Haro

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... I think there is little question that a true pendulum stroke where the backswing and forward swing are close to the same is the most reliable. The ball should just be in the way, not something you focus on hitting. It should be very easy to repeat because there is no acceleration other than the weight of the putter head moving just like a playground swing. I would liken it to Ernie Els full swing where length and rhythm are the same. But as golfers we are all wired differently. John Rahms swing is no less effective as Ernie's in his prime. Short backswing and a fast forward swing that is much longer. Els is a swinger and Rahm a hitter and both excellent ball strikers. Some putt best with their lead arm controlling, some with the rear arm and some using both equal. Obviously I could go on and on but as others have said you need to find what works best for you.

... A long fluid pendulum stroke works well on bent grass and something more of a hit can be advantageous on Bermuda grass. Playing on Bermuda I still use a smooth pendulum stroke but I have had to adjust my short putts to a more of a hit with a shorter backswing and what feels like more of a push through impact instead of a swing because the grain can make a smooth rolling putt with enough speed to fall in the hole wander off line. Bermuda demands a stronger roll to keep it's line. I am getting pretty comfortable putting this way but it is against my natural feel and takes constant concentration. 

... Thinking of some of the best putters, Ben Crenshaw had a long backswing and short follow through. Loren Roberts and Brad Faxon both used a pendulum stroke with the same length back and forward. I have always felt the best drill for understanding your stroke is simply putting with your eyes closed, then keeping them closed guess how far short or long your putt traveled. 

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Everyone is different.  Each way to putt can be good, and it can also be bad; depends on the person.  We all have to find which putting stroke fits each of us.  When you find what works best, don't change!

Just get more efficient! 

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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You could probably determine your length and speed of the putter by either closing your eyes or looking at the hole while practicing. Let your body decide. Which is an oblique way of saying you are overthinking it. A lot. It is the difference between mechanical and feel. Both work, but I would rather putt like Crenshaw than like Bryson.

However you get it done though, good luck.

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21 hours ago, Haro said:

Let me clarify my stroke length   Inside 2 feet is easy.

2-10 feet I have to marry aim with speed

so I do a pendulum motion same lite hit (longer overall stroke longer length putt). This pendulum action max out at 10 feet for me. Then I have to develop another stroke.
Yea I know it’s simple if it’s one stroke. But i need a 2nd stroke for  longer putts. 
so my long distance stroke is combine some hit with different length backstrokes that I can use from 10 feet to about 25 feet and then that back stroke max out as well at 25 feet.  
 

I'm sure glad I do NOT have to deal with what you are doing on the green. Sounds like you have to THINK too much as to what stroke to use for every putt. I just use ONE putting stroke for ALL putts no matter how long or short it is. I just take the putter head back more for a longer putt and a shorter one for a short putt. Before every round I play, I just spend a few minutes on the practice green to figure out how fast the greens are and adjust my stroke length to match the green speed. Pretty simple without have to thing about what stroke I need for every putt. I don't care if it's an up hill or a down hill putt, don't care if it's 2 feet or 100 feet, same putting stroke just with a different stroke length to suit the distance to the cup. Can't get much simpler than that, and simple is easier to do consistantly. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/10/2021 at 2:16 PM, IONEPUTT said:

It does NOT matter what anyone else says about the length of each part of your stroke. The ONLY thing that matter to YOU is what Works best for YOU. MY advice is simple.  Try a few putts and SEE what works for you, and you have YOUR answer, Nothing else matters, or at least it should NOT matter to you. What works for ME is all I care about, and that's all that should matter to you as well. 

 

On 11/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, Beakbryce said:

You could probably determine your length and speed of the putter by either closing your eyes or looking at the hole while practicing. Let your body decide. Which is an oblique way of saying you are overthinking it. A lot. It is the difference between mechanical and feel. Both work, but I would rather putt like Crenshaw than like Bryson.

However you get it done though, good luck.

Thanks for the ideas.  I coming out of the over thinking phase. Reorganized my putting technique  I still consider putting a pendulum motion.  Over thinking the length of forward stroke. Simple thought of taking putter back far enough for the required distance to make the putt in all I need to think about when I get ready to putt 

 

closing my eyes really helps me avoid watching the putter path and I was able to hole right to left putts that normally I could not do with my eyes open 

I think what I was doing was tendency to aim left with my eyes open.  Training my body to make straight putts took some work to reduce aim biasis.  Beside closing the eyes My routine now includes  reading the putt from behind the cup

Also being less specific on line and looking for a path as wide as putter head and cup help me aim straight as funny as that might sound 

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On 10/14/2020 at 8:09 PM, Haro said:

I trust this forum and the it’s insightful members to shed some wisdom  for this dichotomy 

  As cksurfdude said, I am no instructor either.  I have my putting stroke, couldn't even begin to tell you what is longer the take away follow through, NO IDEA. 

I will say this though that one thing I believe has helped me tremendously with distance control is that when I started practicing putting, and keeping track of 1st putt distance, which was in order to have some statistical information to evaluate the putting green I tested for MGS, I began to quickly pace off the distance of the first putt.  I believe it really has helped to know if the putt is actually 12 feet or 15-18 feet , helps with my distance control.  Seems to on longer putts also knowing that its 25 feet and not 35 feet. 

Just seems having that distance  number helps me to have grooved a stroke for that distance of putt, really without concentrating on it at all, instead of standing over a putt and saying wow this is really long, and winging it so to speak.

Hope this idea may help with the length of stroke concern your having.

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34 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I began to quickly pace off the distance of the first putt.  I believe it really has helped to know if the putt is actually 12 feet or 15-18 feet , helps with my distance control.  Seems to on longer putts also knowing that its 25 feet and not 35 feet. 

Just seems having that distance  number helps me to have grooved a stroke for that distance of putt, really without concentrating on it at all, instead of standing over a putt and saying wow this is really long, and winging it so to speak.

 

... I know players that do this and it works for them too. 👍  But how do you compensate for the difference between a 25 foot level putt as well as 25 feet severely uphill or downhill? Seems any walked off distance would be radically different dependent on how up or down hill the putt. Severely breaking sidehill putts might be even worse unless you walk the break right? Putting by feel it its easy to adjust to slopes and breaks because I am not tied to any distance or stroke length. Cnosil points out some of that feel comes from years of experience along with a natural ability to judge putts of different lengths without any calculations. 

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54 minutes ago, chisag said:

I am not tied to any distance or stroke length

I am not saying that for any given distance that I pace off I have a thought about, or planned,  different stroke length to strike that putt with, in any way.  It just helps me with an instictive putt, a little more accurately knowing the distance.  I would equate it to basketball. I never planned out my jump shots, it is a very high percentage of feel.  But jump shots were not all feel.  I calculated unthinkingly  the force of the jumpshot, but it wasn't unthinkingly really, I realized that if I pulled up just outside the foul line, this registered with me that I was 16-17 feet from the basket, inside the foul line 14-10 feet, 3 point line 21 feet.  I wasn't tied to these numbers, but they were in fact giving me a subconscious reference to the power of my arm motion and follow through.   Since  putting greens do not have distance markings of any kind, I have found that pacing off the distance  has simply given  me a subconscious frame of reference to groove my putting stroke,  just like knowing that the foul line was 15 feet from the basket, and other visible clues on the court, actually controlled the force behind my jumper.

P.S.  I wish I would have thought of this earlier. DUMMY!

 

Edited by stuka44

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I naturally prefer to take a longer back stroke and shorter forward stroke. However I noticed that my miss is always to the right or I struggle putting on fast greens. Lately I started to new putting routine. I'll align my putter behind the ball then place it 1in behind the ball. I have notice that this has helped me control distance and hit through the ball. Going to stick with this method for the rest of the winter and see how it goes. 

I think some fitters/people recommend a longer forward stroke because this prevents you from decreasing putter speed at impact. I noticed that on simple 3ft-6ft putts for example my ball was sometimes barely rolling over the front of the cup. Where with my new method I am hitting the flag stick (if left in) or hitting the back of the cup. something "the pros do."

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I have always had a forward stroke at least as long as my back stroke because it helped me to keep the putter face on line and gave me better direction on my putts.  I am streaky with my distance control though.  I will try a few of the suggestions mentioned above to get a little more consistent if I start having distance issues again.

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NEVER THINK WHILE PLAYING GOLF...JUST PLAY! YOU'RE AN AMATEUR...JUST PLAY!

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Putting is soooo personal. With me, it can change day to day (and I am considered a good putter). I have a very heavy putter head (actually a cut-off belly putter that I just love).  Some days I am more comfortable with left-hand low. That stroke tends to be very equal back/forward stroke and I stand rather tall. Other days, I do a modified "pool shooter" stance, right foot forward, standard grip with right index down the shaft, much more bent over. Both have my lead eye over the ball but inside about an inch.

I find, for me, left-hand low on slower greens; modified "pool shooter" on quicker greens requiring more "feel'.  Just saying.  

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3 hours ago, scalefreak@aol.com said:

You say two PGA pros say the forward stroke is shorter than the backstroke.  I don't know what world they live in but in the real world if the forward stroke is shorter than the backstroke, the putter head never reaches the ball.

Excellent point.  The OP probably means the follow through not the foreward stroke. 
 

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Watching the pros today at Kapalua, it looked like maybe half have the back stroke and through stroke about the same.  The other half have shorter through strokes.  Obviously, both methods work.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I'm a spot putter and average around 30 putts a round. So by no means an expert but above average.

For me if I have to start thinking about length of swing on my putts I lose feel and distance.

I tend to have a good look at line and gradient on the putt,  pick my spot, 2 or 3 swings with the putter while looking at my spot to get the feel on swing and my brain dialed in to swing length. I then get over the putt, align putter to aim at the spot, couple of ball spot, ball spot looks and then hit, my mind is more on hitting at the target than stroke length.  My distance tends to be pretty good 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/8/2022 at 4:40 AM, Alf. S said:

I'm a spot putter and average around 30 putts a round. So by no means an expert but above average.

For me if I have to start thinking about length of swing on my putts I lose feel and distance.

I tend to have a good look at line and gradient on the putt,  pick my spot, 2 or 3 swings with the putter while looking at my spot to get the feel on swing and my brain dialed in to swing length. I then get over the putt, align putter to aim at the spot, couple of ball spot, ball spot looks and then hit, my mind is more on hitting at the target than stroke length.  My distance tends to be pretty good 

 

I don’t think anyone would suggest you think about that sort of thing while playing a round. I try to work on it when practicing and the results eventually start to show up in actual rounds.  Shortening my through stroke has definitely been beneficial for me.  My through stroke used to be longer than my backstroke, which is something you very rarely see from plus handicap golfers.  It is a hard habit to break and the shorter follow through feels like a jab if Im putting bad.  When it smoothies out and I make a good putt it definitely gives me better results when I implement around a 60-40 backstroke to through stroke.  For me the key is to have what Stan utley refers to as “dead weight” or Pat Obrien talks about letting gravity do the work.  I was taught to putt with the idea that the clutter head should stay low to the ground in the backstroke and through stroke.  I had to retrain my thoughts to allowing it to naturally rise up 8n the backswing so gravity can give a major assist on the downswing.  I also had to get the idea of accelerating through the ball out of my head.  So many people talk about how you need to accelerate and never decelerate, and people take it to crazy extremes where they are taking almost no backswing and then jamming it forward.  For me, thinking about the forward stroke as being gravity driven and not any more accelerated than the backstroke, has yielded better results.

Full disclosure, I’m not an expert putter or great player.  I’m playing off 3.5ish so I don’t suck, but am far from being really good.  My putting has really improved by making changes that resulted in a shorter follow through.  The changes are what was key though, not the shorter follow through.  I tried to simply shorten my follow through when I first heard it suggested.  That was a disaster.  Later on when I made the changes I mentioned above, along with some others, the follow through naturally shortened and my putting improved.

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4 hours ago, MollyCyrus said:

I don’t think anyone would suggest you think about that sort of thing while playing a round. I try to work on it when practicing and the results eventually start to show up in actual rounds.  Shortening my through stroke has definitely been beneficial for me.  My through stroke used to be longer than my backstroke, which is something you very rarely see from plus handicap golfers.  It is a hard habit to break and the shorter follow through feels like a jab if Im putting bad.  When it smoothies out and I make a good putt it definitely gives me better results when I implement around a 60-40 backstroke to through stroke.  For me the key is to have what Stan utley refers to as “dead weight” or Pat Obrien talks about letting gravity do the work.  I was taught to putt with the idea that the clutter head should stay low to the ground in the backstroke and through stroke.  I had to retrain my thoughts to allowing it to naturally rise up 8n the backswing so gravity can give a major assist on the downswing.  I also had to get the idea of accelerating through the ball out of my head.  So many people talk about how you need to accelerate and never decelerate, and people take it to crazy extremes where they are taking almost no backswing and then jamming it forward.  For me, thinking about the forward stroke as being gravity driven and not any more accelerated than the backstroke, has yielded better results.

Full disclosure, I’m not an expert putter or great player.  I’m playing off 3.5ish so I don’t suck, but am far from being really good.  My putting has really improved by making changes that resulted in a shorter follow through.  The changes are what was key though, not the shorter follow through.  I tried to simply shorten my follow through when I first heard it suggested.  That was a disaster.  Later on when I made the changes I mentioned above, along with some others, the follow through naturally shortened and my putting improved.

Thanks for sharing that. When I tried to shorten my follow thru Deliberately  didn’t have the proper tempo and didn’t work out thinking about that 

I don’t think about the length of the follow through  anymore.  I went back to slight forward lean /press and think about far back I been want to take handle/putter and I notice the shorten follow takes care of itself as I naturally hold the finish  

Edited by Haro
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Remember, pros play extremely fast, perfectly manicured greens EVERY week.

I, like most golfers, play what is available.   Adjust your putter stroke to what works for you on the greens you play.    I practice with the Srixon 2 color balls with the line dividing the colors vertical.   If that line remains vertical, you hit a pure putt.   P.S. don't look up to watch the line - let it roll then observe at 10 feet.

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I use to play with a gentleman who was one of the best ball strikers I have ever met.  He could read greens and strike his putter with the fluidity of a gentle breeze, never spending much time over his putt.  I learned a lot from him.  First thing he told me was the importance of the ball position.  He had me take my normal stance and place a coin on my forehead and let the coin drop on the ground.  Where it landed is where I should always set up my ball.  He then told me that I should practice my tempo, find one that works for me with lots of practice from lots of distances, striking the ball as it were a pendulum meeting it at it's contact point.  Next you can only read a putt some many times.  He emphasized that he really angered him that so many people over read greens.  He actually taught me how to plumb bob and still use that technique to this day.  I spend very little time reading a green, plumb bob it and 99% of the time I am dead on, unless I miss hit it.  It takes a lot of practice to develop a tempo that is comfortable for you and plumb bob even more.  The big thing is trusting it.  My friend was dang good.  He was a traveling salesman that played up and down the east coast playing money matches against the likes of Hogan and Snead.  Might add he won a number of matches against the best other hustlers out there.  I loved playing with him, because he had a lot to teach.  He was a tough man to play with because he demanded perfection but I liked the challenge.  We won a few blitzes together.  RIP Whitey Whitesides.  Thanks for the memories and your knowledge.        

 

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