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Length of Stroke :backstroke vs forward stroke


Haro
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"Forgive me but I just got distracted with something more important while posting last night.  My tempo works out that if I take the putter back 8 inches ..."

^ Cool thx for all that add'l info.

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On 10/27/2021 at 8:52 PM, Kenny B said:

I've gone to a shorter followthrough over the last year.  I had a pendulum motion, but I found that I couldn't control the speed very well; short most of the time.  I watch Snedeker and tried that pop stroke with mixed results.  This was the stroke used by pros many, many years ago when the green speed was quite slow.  An old local pro here still uses it today.  

If you watch Spieth putt, he has a short followthrough; seems to just hit the ball firm enough to get the ball rolling the pace he wants; almost a strike then pullback stroke.  I like it, and it's working pretty well for me.

I’m finding this method is more reliable. I tried the perfect pendulum with equal length backstroke :forward stroke but I feel like I have to attach the butt end of the putter to midline of my body to produce this 

For the longer putts. I feel that distance control is more of a hit

The length of backstroke max out after 10 feet and at approx 28 feet I feel I need to change to more of a “hitting grip” at those distances 

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On 10/28/2021 at 9:46 AM, vandyland said:

I found when my through stroke got long (longer than my backstroke) I tended to push the ball more. Almost like I was guiding it. The advantage I have seen with a shorter follow through (this is very recent as I have been GRINDING on putting the last few days) is that I have less face manipulation/rotation in my through stroke. Basically getting myself to get my follow through equal to or shorter than my backstroke felt like I was doing Sneds' popstroke but on video it just looked like a normal stroke. I was just so used to trying to have this long languid guided through stroke that I unlearning that was quite uncomfortable at first. 

I been trying “hold the finish” as I believe this will prevent face manipulation and rotation. What is weird about this feeling is there feels like there is no release but the ball does track on line.   I think what difficult about this is that it’s just opposite of the golf swing where I do have face rotation and full release of the club. 

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On 10/27/2021 at 8:52 PM, Kenny B said:

I've gone to a shorter followthrough over the last year.  I had a pendulum motion, but I found that I couldn't control the speed very well; short most of the time.  I watch Snedeker and tried that pop stroke with mixed results.  This was the stroke used by pros many, many years ago when the green speed was quite slow.  An old local pro here still uses it today.  

If you watch Spieth putt, he has a short followthrough; seems to just hit the ball firm enough to get the ball rolling the pace he wants; almost a strike then pullback stroke.  I like it, and it's working pretty well for me.

Spieth has this mini forward press with his stroke that worked well to keep the face angle from breaking down during impact 

something I been trying out 

 

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1 hour ago, Haro said:

I’m finding this method is more reliable. I tried the perfect pendulum with equal length backstroke :forward stroke but I feel like I have to attach the butt end of the putter to midline of my body to produce this 

For the longer putts. I feel that distance control is more of a hit

The length of backstroke max out after 10 feet and at approx 28 feet I feel I need to change to more of a “hitting grip” at those distances 

 

1 hour ago, Haro said:

I been trying “hold the finish” as I believe this will prevent face manipulation and rotation. What is weird about this feeling is there feels like there is no release but the ball does track on line.   I think what difficult about this is that it’s just opposite of the golf swing where I do have face rotation and full release of the club. 

 

1 hour ago, Haro said:

Spieth has this mini forward press with his stroke that worked well to keep the face angle from breaking down during impact 

something I been trying out 

 

sounds like you are really complicating the stroke.   So your max stroke length only goes 10 feet so you then increase speed with that same distance to get to 28 feet and then change again to hitting the ball?

holding the putter open is an approach just like some choose to release the putter.   You will still get manipulation as you work to hold the finish to prevent the rotation.  
 

While Spieth uses a forward press, I am not sure it is about face angle, it is simply a trigger to start the stroke.   I also vaguely remember reading an evaluation of his stroke that talked about his forward press just brings the shaft to vertical and doesn’t press it past vertical.  

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It does NOT matter what anyone else says about the length of each part of your stroke. The ONLY thing that matter to YOU is what Works best for YOU. MY advice is simple.  Try a few putts and SEE what works for you, and you have YOUR answer, Nothing else matters, or at least it should NOT matter to you. What works for ME is all I care about, and that's all that should matter to you as well. 

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True. I could "overthink" this. For some strange reason; tend to keep it simple & for most part I am under par for putting. EZ Back about 1/3rd Max. & EZ Thru somewhat longer with Putter Head chasing the Line. In other words; "Underpar"  keeps the Old Boy > Happy!!

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

 

sounds like you are really complicating the stroke.   So your max stroke length only goes 10 feet so you then increase speed with that same distance to get to 28 feet and then change again to hitting the ball?

holding the putter open is an approach just like some choose to release the putter.   You will still get manipulation as you work to hold the finish to prevent the rotation.  
 

While Spieth uses a forward press, I am not sure it is about face angle, it is simply a trigger to start the stroke.   I also vaguely remember reading an evaluation of his stroke that talked about his forward press just brings the shaft to vertical and doesn’t press it past vertical.  

Let me clarify my stroke length   Inside 2 feet is easy.

2-10 feet I have to marry aim with speed

so I do a pendulum motion same lite hit (longer overall stroke longer length putt). This pendulum action max out at 10 feet for me. Then I have to develop another stroke.
Yea I know it’s simple if it’s one stroke. But i need a 2nd stroke for  longer putts. 
so my long distance stroke is combine some hit with different length backstrokes that I can use from 10 feet to about 25 feet and then that back stroke max out as well at 25 feet.  
 

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Experiment to find what works for you. I tend to have a fairly long stroke, maybe a little longer forward than back, with very steady hands. I only try to "pop" the ball if the putt is heading to the next county over, as I don't feel like I have enough touch to pull off a pop-type of approach on anything under maybe 30 feet.

Another piece of advice I've heard: to some degree it's easier to be consistent if your putting stroke mimics your full swing tendencies. If you have a short backstroke with an iron, maybe do the same thing with a putter, and vice versa.

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43 minutes ago, Jim N said:

Experiment to find what works for you. I tend to have a fairly long stroke, maybe a little longer forward than back, with very steady hands. I only try to "pop" the ball if the putt is heading to the next county over, as I don't feel like I have enough touch to pull off a pop-type of approach on anything under maybe 30 feet.

Another piece of advice I've heard: to some degree it's easier to be consistent if your putting stroke mimics your full swing tendencies. If you have a short backstroke with an iron, maybe do the same thing with a putter, and vice versa.

I don’t find any correlation with short backstroke with an iron with an short backstroke putter in any tour players

Tiger has full swing yet has one of the shortest backstrokes 


The one thing seems to be the common in tour players is tempo is about the same in  swing as it in the putting stroke 

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... I think there is little question that a true pendulum stroke where the backswing and forward swing are close to the same is the most reliable. The ball should just be in the way, not something you focus on hitting. It should be very easy to repeat because there is no acceleration other than the weight of the putter head moving just like a playground swing. I would liken it to Ernie Els full swing where length and rhythm are the same. But as golfers we are all wired differently. John Rahms swing is no less effective as Ernie's in his prime. Short backswing and a fast forward swing that is much longer. Els is a swinger and Rahm a hitter and both excellent ball strikers. Some putt best with their lead arm controlling, some with the rear arm and some using both equal. Obviously I could go on and on but as others have said you need to find what works best for you.

... A long fluid pendulum stroke works well on bent grass and something more of a hit can be advantageous on Bermuda grass. Playing on Bermuda I still use a smooth pendulum stroke but I have had to adjust my short putts to a more of a hit with a shorter backswing and what feels like more of a push through impact instead of a swing because the grain can make a smooth rolling putt with enough speed to fall in the hole wander off line. Bermuda demands a stronger roll to keep it's line. I am getting pretty comfortable putting this way but it is against my natural feel and takes constant concentration. 

... Thinking of some of the best putters, Ben Crenshaw had a long backswing and short follow through. Loren Roberts and Brad Faxon both used a pendulum stroke with the same length back and forward. I have always felt the best drill for understanding your stroke is simply putting with your eyes closed, then keeping them closed guess how far short or long your putt traveled. 

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Everyone is different.  Each way to putt can be good, and it can also be bad; depends on the person.  We all have to find which putting stroke fits each of us.  When you find what works best, don't change!

Just get more efficient! 

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You could probably determine your length and speed of the putter by either closing your eyes or looking at the hole while practicing. Let your body decide. Which is an oblique way of saying you are overthinking it. A lot. It is the difference between mechanical and feel. Both work, but I would rather putt like Crenshaw than like Bryson.

However you get it done though, good luck.

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21 hours ago, Haro said:

Let me clarify my stroke length   Inside 2 feet is easy.

2-10 feet I have to marry aim with speed

so I do a pendulum motion same lite hit (longer overall stroke longer length putt). This pendulum action max out at 10 feet for me. Then I have to develop another stroke.
Yea I know it’s simple if it’s one stroke. But i need a 2nd stroke for  longer putts. 
so my long distance stroke is combine some hit with different length backstrokes that I can use from 10 feet to about 25 feet and then that back stroke max out as well at 25 feet.  
 

I'm sure glad I do NOT have to deal with what you are doing on the green. Sounds like you have to THINK too much as to what stroke to use for every putt. I just use ONE putting stroke for ALL putts no matter how long or short it is. I just take the putter head back more for a longer putt and a shorter one for a short putt. Before every round I play, I just spend a few minutes on the practice green to figure out how fast the greens are and adjust my stroke length to match the green speed. Pretty simple without have to thing about what stroke I need for every putt. I don't care if it's an up hill or a down hill putt, don't care if it's 2 feet or 100 feet, same putting stroke just with a different stroke length to suit the distance to the cup. Can't get much simpler than that, and simple is easier to do consistantly. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/10/2021 at 2:16 PM, IONEPUTT said:

It does NOT matter what anyone else says about the length of each part of your stroke. The ONLY thing that matter to YOU is what Works best for YOU. MY advice is simple.  Try a few putts and SEE what works for you, and you have YOUR answer, Nothing else matters, or at least it should NOT matter to you. What works for ME is all I care about, and that's all that should matter to you as well. 

 

On 11/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, Beakbryce said:

You could probably determine your length and speed of the putter by either closing your eyes or looking at the hole while practicing. Let your body decide. Which is an oblique way of saying you are overthinking it. A lot. It is the difference between mechanical and feel. Both work, but I would rather putt like Crenshaw than like Bryson.

However you get it done though, good luck.

Thanks for the ideas.  I coming out of the over thinking phase. Reorganized my putting technique  I still consider putting a pendulum motion.  Over thinking the length of forward stroke. Simple thought of taking putter back far enough for the required distance to make the putt in all I need to think about when I get ready to putt 

 

closing my eyes really helps me avoid watching the putter path and I was able to hole right to left putts that normally I could not do with my eyes open 

I think what I was doing was tendency to aim left with my eyes open.  Training my body to make straight putts took some work to reduce aim biasis.  Beside closing the eyes My routine now includes  reading the putt from behind the cup

Also being less specific on line and looking for a path as wide as putter head and cup help me aim straight as funny as that might sound 

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On 10/14/2020 at 8:09 PM, Haro said:

I trust this forum and the it’s insightful members to shed some wisdom  for this dichotomy 

  As cksurfdude said, I am no instructor either.  I have my putting stroke, couldn't even begin to tell you what is longer the take away follow through, NO IDEA. 

I will say this though that one thing I believe has helped me tremendously with distance control is that when I started practicing putting, and keeping track of 1st putt distance, which was in order to have some statistical information to evaluate the putting green I tested for MGS, I began to quickly pace off the distance of the first putt.  I believe it really has helped to know if the putt is actually 12 feet or 15-18 feet , helps with my distance control.  Seems to on longer putts also knowing that its 25 feet and not 35 feet. 

Just seems having that distance  number helps me to have grooved a stroke for that distance of putt, really without concentrating on it at all, instead of standing over a putt and saying wow this is really long, and winging it so to speak.

Hope this idea may help with the length of stroke concern your having.

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34 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I began to quickly pace off the distance of the first putt.  I believe it really has helped to know if the putt is actually 12 feet or 15-18 feet , helps with my distance control.  Seems to on longer putts also knowing that its 25 feet and not 35 feet. 

Just seems having that distance  number helps me to have grooved a stroke for that distance of putt, really without concentrating on it at all, instead of standing over a putt and saying wow this is really long, and winging it so to speak.

 

... I know players that do this and it works for them too. 👍  But how do you compensate for the difference between a 25 foot level putt as well as 25 feet severely uphill or downhill? Seems any walked off distance would be radically different dependent on how up or down hill the putt. Severely breaking sidehill putts might be even worse unless you walk the break right? Putting by feel it its easy to adjust to slopes and breaks because I am not tied to any distance or stroke length. Cnosil points out some of that feel comes from years of experience along with a natural ability to judge putts of different lengths without any calculations. 

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54 minutes ago, chisag said:

I am not tied to any distance or stroke length

I am not saying that for any given distance that I pace off I have a thought about, or planned,  different stroke length to strike that putt with, in any way.  It just helps me with an instictive putt, a little more accurately knowing the distance.  I would equate it to basketball. I never planned out my jump shots, it is a very high percentage of feel.  But jump shots were not all feel.  I calculated unthinkingly  the force of the jumpshot, but it wasn't unthinkingly really, I realized that if I pulled up just outside the foul line, this registered with me that I was 16-17 feet from the basket, inside the foul line 14-10 feet, 3 point line 21 feet.  I wasn't tied to these numbers, but they were in fact giving me a subconscious reference to the power of my arm motion and follow through.   Since  putting greens do not have distance markings of any kind, I have found that pacing off the distance  has simply given  me a subconscious frame of reference to groove my putting stroke,  just like knowing that the foul line was 15 feet from the basket, and other visible clues on the court, actually controlled the force behind my jumper.

P.S.  I wish I would have thought of this earlier. DUMMY!

 

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I naturally prefer to take a longer back stroke and shorter forward stroke. However I noticed that my miss is always to the right or I struggle putting on fast greens. Lately I started to new putting routine. I'll align my putter behind the ball then place it 1in behind the ball. I have notice that this has helped me control distance and hit through the ball. Going to stick with this method for the rest of the winter and see how it goes. 

I think some fitters/people recommend a longer forward stroke because this prevents you from decreasing putter speed at impact. I noticed that on simple 3ft-6ft putts for example my ball was sometimes barely rolling over the front of the cup. Where with my new method I am hitting the flag stick (if left in) or hitting the back of the cup. something "the pros do."

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