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How do you know if you are hitting the ball too high?


dlow206
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2 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

Hitting new irons too high, with a shaft that is a bit too flexibile. Looking for a near term fix. Would a low spinning ball, like a velocity help?

Probably gotta back up and unpack some things here. A soft shaft may or may not be the culprit, but I would ask more about what makes you think you're hitting it too high? Are you on a launch monitor and if so, do you have some of your peak heights that you could share? It's worth noting that hitting high doesn't have many disadvantages unless you're playing links golf or if you're hitting it very high and also with a lot of spin. Hitting it high with low-spin is how you hit bombs. High with high spin creates balloons with little run-out. (Conversely, low trajectory with low spin results in dive-bombs and worm-burners that run forever and low-trajectory/high-spin are stingers, basically.)

That being said, switching to a low-spin ionomer ball like the Velocity is likely to cause your shots to fly higher not lower. If trajectory is the issue and not spin, you might try something like the Bridgestone Tour BX (mid-high spin), the Snell MTB-X (high spin), the Titleist AVX (low spin), or the Taylormade Tour Response (low spin). They're a little lower/flatter trajectory and your spin needs can dial in which of those three are a better fit.

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4 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

Hitting new irons too high, with a shaft that is a bit too flexibile. Looking for a near term fix. Would a low spinning ball, like a velocity help?

Too high for what?

Whats your spin, launch, peak height and descent angle? 
 

Without a video to see if it’s swing and not equipment or launch monitor numbers there’s nothing that can be recommended.

Some options for quick fixes are

1) get fit for the right setup

2) get a lesson as those who usually say they hit the ball too high add loft at impact 

 

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18 hours ago, greggarner said:

Probably gotta back up and unpack some things here. A soft shaft may or may not be the culprit, but I would ask more about what makes you think you're hitting it too high? Are you on a launch monitor and if so, do you have some of your peak heights that you could share? It's worth noting that hitting high doesn't have many disadvantages unless you're playing links golf or if you're hitting it very high and also with a lot of spin. Hitting it high with low-spin is how you hit bombs. High with high spin creates balloons with little run-out. (Conversely, low trajectory with low spin results in dive-bombs and worm-burners that run forever and low-trajectory/high-spin are stingers, basically.)

That being said, switching to a low-spin ionomer ball like the Velocity is likely to cause your shots to fly higher not lower. If trajectory is the issue and not spin, you might try something like the Bridgestone Tour BX (mid-high spin), the Snell MTB-X (high spin), the Titleist AVX (low spin), or the Taylormade Tour Response (low spin). They're a little lower/flatter trajectory and your spin needs can dial in which of those three are a better fit.

Thanks, Greg. I have not been on a monitor. But, upgraded from HB3 irons to XL Halo with a senior shaft and I am losing distance and the flight is noticibly higher. Although, it is in the same family of club, the HL Halo's are much lighter with more flex. I am hitting it straighter. Does that mean, less spin? Thanks, for the suggestions on balls too. 

Edited by NC Golfer
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I find that if the ball comes down with ice on it, I'm hitting it a little too high.

High with a steep descent is my preferred shot shape into greens.

I LOVE to see (and repair) deep ballmarks. 

Rolling on is only practical on some greens anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, NC Golfer said:

Thanks, Greg. I have not been on a monitor. But, upgraded from HB3 irons to XL Halo with a senior shaft and I am losing distance and the flight is noticibly higher. Although, it is in the same family of club, the HL Halo's are much lighter with more flex. I am hitting it straighter. Does that mean, less spin? Thanks, for the suggestions on balls too. 

Still doesn’t say anything. We don’t have the launch monitor date of your old set or your new set to see why there’s a noticeable difference in height or what’s causing it.

As far as the current set without video of swing and/or launch monitor data there’s now way to say if the issue is swing, equipment not fitting the swing.

Based on your other posts about the issues with your swing it’s possible that you don’t create room in the downswing and have to compensate and end up adding loft which is going to add height and spin and that’s going to effect peak height and what the ball does.

Also since you bought these without a fitting it’s possible it’s equipment or because of the equipment being off it changes your swing as a compensation to get the club to work for your swing.

 

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My ball flight is high relative to most people I play with (on all but my driver). That’s a definite plus in terms of stopping the ball on greens, but I have to be mindful on windy days and flight the ball down into the wind. But there is no ballooning (too much spin) so I am not hitting “too high.” As for losing distance due to height, you’d have to get launch monitor numbers to know that as others have said.

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I would say there is no such thing as too high.  There is only how high you actually hit it.  It is what it is! 

I guess my simple non technical answer would be , I'm not sure launch monitors, swing speeds, shaft flex , video recorded swings are really necessary. 

If you are regularly hitting an 8 Iron, and it(regardless of how high in the air it is going)  " regularly and repeatedly" in modest weather conditions is only reaching the front of the green from a certain distance, and you expected it to reach the middle, and you believe you made decent contact with the ball and it wasn't a fat shot, or a half skull.

Hit a 7 Iron from that distance to the middle of the green, your 8 iron(or any club) maybe just isn't destined to carry as far as you think it should, given your swing. 

 

Edited by stuka44

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1 hour ago, stuka44 said:

I would say there is no such thing as too high.  There is only how high you actually hit it.  It is what it is! 

I guess my simple non technical answer would be , I'm not sure launch monitors, swing speeds, shaft flex , video recorded swings are really necessary. 

If you are regularly hitting an 8 Iron, and it(regardless of how high in the air it is going)  " regularly and repeatedly" in modest weather conditions is only reaching the front of the green from a certain distance, and you expected it to reach the middle, and you believe you made decent contact with the ball and it wasn't a fat shot, or a half skull.

Hit a 7 Iron from that distance to the middle of the green, your 8 iron(or any club) maybe just isn't destined to carry as far as you think it should, given your swing. 

 

There is a too high and it’s because of too much spin. This is called ballooning and it will negatively impact ball flight and distance and will be nearly unplayable in windy conditions. 
 

All aspects from club one is playing to include the shaft as well as ball speed, launch, spin, descent angle and peak height play a roll in this. Video will allow one to see if it’s swing related like adding more loft at impact. Launch monitor data will help identify what’s happening and what the numbers actually are. Incorrectly fitted clubs to include being in the wrong shaft profile, weight and even length can be causes.

 

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1 hour ago, stuka44 said:

I would say there is no such thing as too high.  There is only how high you actually hit it.  It is what it is! 

I guess my simple non technical answer would be , I'm not sure launch monitors, swing speeds, shaft flex , video recorded swings are really necessary. 

If you are regularly hitting an 8 Iron, and it(regardless of how high in the air it is going)  " regularly and repeatedly" in modest weather conditions is only reaching the front of the green from a certain distance, and you expected it to reach the middle, and you believe you made decent contact with the ball and it wasn't a fat shot, or a half skull.

Hit a 7 Iron from that distance to the middle of the green, your 8 iron(or any club) maybe just isn't destined to carry as far as you think it should, given your swing. 

 

If you were swinging your driver at 110 MPH and the ball was only going 200 yards would you just think oh well that’s the way it is?  Or would you wonder if there was something swing or club related?   
hitting the ball too high is something that many golfers say and in reality they don’t hit it high enough.  Looking at the persons swing or launch monitor numbers is simply a way to start a diagnosis.  I the diagnosis may be exactly what you said and that is simply how far they hit the ball.   It might reveal a swing issue that when corrected could lead to more accuracy and more distance.   It could also improve how the person plays in more adverse weather conditions.  
As with anything we can choose to accept what is happening or we can challenge what is happening and get confirmation or a better way.  Lots of paths to solve the problem and the player was looking for recommendations on how to lower flight.  If you want a simple answer move the ball back and deloft the club.  This is a solution that works but potentially adds additional problems.  

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Also to add just like there’s a too high there’s a too low. 

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... Like so many things in golf there is no easy answer. But in general I would agree with several posters that have said no such thing as too high, just too much spin. Of all the players I taught and have joined on a golf course over the years I have seen one player that hit the ball too high. One. He lived in Texas and his high ball flight caused problems because he rarely played in calm conditions and his spin was borderline excessive. That said, I have seen plenty that hit it too high because the ball is ballooning as the result of excessive spin which again is not a trajectory problem but a spin problem. 

... I played with a mini tour player that has one multiple times in Orlando several years ago and he hit the ball higher than anyone I have played with. 2nd hole we were both left with 230yd shots on a par 5 but the fairway took a little turn right at the end and was guarded by trees. I hit a 19* hybrid to the left side of the fairway leaving me a long pitch to the green. This 20something hit a 4 iron over the trees to the back fringe!?! That was about a 230yd carry and it was just insanely high. I asked him on the back 9 if his trajectory ever causes him problems in Fla winds and without comment he proceeded to hit a knockdown 5 iron about 15 feet from the pin on a 210 yd par 3 and it was a low laser. I would say I hit the ball pretty high, usually higher than my playing pards but really elite players hit it even higher than I do. Someone pointed out earlier that going to a Tour Event can be an eye opener when you watch Rory, Tiger and the top players that just hit it crazy high. 

... I also played with a 30something kid in Chicago that averaged about 340 off the tee. Fastest swing I have ever seen but in balance and looked normal other than the blur through impact. First hole is a 359 yd par 4 and he hit his drive in the greenside bunker. I did not see it land because the flight was so preposterously high I lost it in the air. Took me a few holes to be able to track the flight and I have never seen anyone hit it that high off the tee. Tee it high and let it fly on display. 

... Of course wind and several other factors can mean yes, you can hit it too high because the wind will move the ball more the longer it is in the air but that is a different story.

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Seems to imply a perception that clubs should go certain distance to me.  My point is simply that if his difficulty is actual on course experience and his 8 iron is coming up short of the green, when he thinks it "should" make the green, then that solution is very simple hit a 7 iron.

I see a danger is swing numbers, spin rates, etc., etc, etc, because the OP, thinks he's hitting it too high, without any posted clear idea of why he thinks this, or against what standard that belief is based.  It seems like opening up another pandoras box to begin looking for a solution to something you think is a problem, when in fact it really wasn't a problem at all.

If PW comes up short, hit a 9 iron.

 

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13 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

Seems to imply a perception that clubs should go certain distance to me.  My point is simply that if his difficulty is actual on course experience and his 8 iron is coming up short of the green, when he thinks it "should" make the green, then that solution is very simple hit a 7 iron.

I see a danger is swing numbers, spin rates, etc., etc, etc, because the OP, thinks he's hitting it too high, without any posted clear idea of why he thinks this, or against what standard that belief is based.  It seems like opening up another pandoras box to begin looking for a solution to something you think is a problem, when in fact it really wasn't a problem at all.

If PW comes up short, hit a 9 iron.

 

Yes hitting one more club is a solution and what most amateurs should do because many base their distance off their best shot ever with a club and fail to look at averages. They also look at total distance rather than carry. 
 

As to the spin, etc you are correct that there’s data missing for comparison to include what his previous set was doing and that his current stammer of too high is based on what he sees in ball flight.

What we have been saying is that without the data of his current set nobody can say if it’s too high or if it is why and that includes the comparison on data to the old set. The point is that before any decision is made the cause needs to be determined. Two ways to do that. A video of swing from dtl and face on to see if there’s something in the swing causing it, which could be the result of club causing it or if it’s just his swing and will happen with most clubs. The data can be used for either comparison with the swing or separate and to see what’s happening. But based on what we have in this thread there’s nothing to say if things are too high in a bad way or just flying higher than his previous set but not too high and he just needs to club up

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On 11/1/2020 at 4:35 PM, dlow206 said:

I will try to get some Trackman numbers soon, and probably go for an iron fitting sometime after the new year. Waiting for those G425 irons to come out lol.

One option you could do is try and attend a free fitting or demo day and see what they tell you about your stock clubs. Might be a free way to gain some insight from someone that sees every flight possible combined with the data points.

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On 1/19/2022 at 11:28 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

There is a too high and it’s because of too much spin. This is called ballooning and it will negatively impact ball flight and distance and will be nearly unplayable in windy conditions. 
 

All aspects from club one is playing to include the shaft as well as ball speed, launch, spin, descent angle and peak height play a roll in this. Video will allow one to see if it’s swing related like adding more loft at impact. Launch monitor data will help identify what’s happening and what the numbers actually are. Incorrectly fitted clubs to include being in the wrong shaft profile, weight and even length can be causes.

 

That's what made me set aside one of my iron sets (probably a repeat comment).  When you get a 1½ club jump from a ball change, and your spin is still kind of high, maybe not right for you.   LOL

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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16 minutes ago, CanadaMike said:

One option you could do is try and attend a free fitting or demo day and see what they tell you about your stock clubs. Might be a free way to gain some insight from someone that sees every flight possible combined with the data points.

 

... Demo days from OEMs can be very valuable. They will compare your clubs with the clubs they are trying to sell you. It will give you a baseline for your clubs and may show you an improvement with theirs. Even if it does, it will give you an idea of what you need equipment wise to max your current swing which my be their club, another OEM or your current clubs. I would add if the demo day is by a OEM Rep they tend to be very good at fittings and sure they will try and "upgrade you" if possible but of course you are under no obligation to do so. My last free fitting with TaylorMade they told me there was no need to upgrade from my Sim to a Sim2 and verified the Diamana shaft I was using was best for my swing. Great information for free. 

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I created this thread, so thought i should post some data from a fitting yesterday. Height hasn't been a pressing issue for me at the moment, but this thread is about height so will keep it on topic. Based on the fitting and fitter, my height related numbers are appropriate (not saying fully optimized) for my swing speed. Below is a 25 degree 6 iron. 

image.png.0d57ea120eb75368411e1c88b583836c.png

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Those are some solid numbers.  Did you order them.  How did they compare to anything else you hit? 

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Those are some solid numbers.  Did you order them.  How did they compare to anything else you hit? 

Yes, i ordered them. I'll give a little bit of background on why i even when in for a fitting in the first place even though I have a 2021 T300 set.

I made a New Year's resolution that I am giving up buying random clubs without trying them (putters are an exception). Bought way too many clubs based on thinking they were a good idea, meaning never even demoed or never even seen in-person. Same with shafts.

In addition, i just haven't felt comfortable standing over the ball with my T300 set. I hate that they look massively upright at address even though they were bent flat from stock. This is what my club looks like at address. I know "look" shouldn't matter, but I wanted to check with a fitter if this lie angle is in fact too upright or if its just in my head.

IMG_3174.JPG.14c3a658006b3e85864cf4260a956616.JPG

So at the fitting on Trackman at CC, here are the gamer numbers. I tend to miss with push fades (i call it that but its a push slice) and then an over compensation pull/pull hook. With the most frequent miss of push fade, based on that ball flight, theres not way that could be caused by an upright lie angle, right (more to come on this shortly). Look at ball 4 below, -7.1 club path, face 3.2 degrees open, yuck. Maybe my swing just sucks?

image.png.e8c916044808e50fbcc1d9d6a4139348.png

After that, tested some different shafts in a T300 fitting head, landed on Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel shafts as the best fit (not the CW taper tip, those play differently). Moving on to heads, I asked the fitter if I could try a Mizuno Hot Metal. I told the fitter I wanted to see what happened when I tried an iron that was a flatter spec than my gamer. Mizuno stock irons are about 1.5 degrees flatter than Titleist. For the setup, he bent the fitting Mizuno iron to be about 1 degree flatter than my gamer or so.

With the Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal irons, these were my results. For me, the most important change was the resulting Face Angle. Instead of wide open at impact, it was slightly closed, but still open to path, producing a nice fade rather than the big push ball. Had a dialog with the fitter about what was going on between the T300 and the flatter Mizunos and its essentially that with a more upright lie angle, my brain and body are overcompensating by leaving the face open to avoid hitting a massive left ball. 

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Overall, the Mizunos were a better fit because they helped me avoid the big right ball, and I also gained some distance as well. I believe that the distance gains were also related to lie angle in the sense that for me, if the lie angle is too upright, something happens in my swing that causes me to make poorer strikes. 

So why not just bend the T300 irons more to the same spec as the Mizunos? That's the problem. Based on my height, proportions, and data from the fitting, the fitter wanted me to be in irons about 2 to 2.5 degrees flat from Mizuno stock spec. A Hot Metal 7 iron is 61.5 degrees lie angle, a T300 is 63. That would mean 3.5 to 4 degrees flat from T300 stock spec. Titleist will only bend the T300 irons up to 2 degrees flat and no club builder will attempt to bend a cast iron 4 degrees flat. I have a Mitchell bending machine at home and I am not going to attempt to bend them that much, the risk of breaking the hosel is too high. 

An important note related to all of the above. I am 5'5" on the very best of days and have a 30.5" wrist to floor. I was reading that the average human wrist to floor is 48.9% of their height. So my wrist to floor is equivalent to a person who is about 5'2" on average. While static fitting is not an end all be all, the dynamic fitting did show that lie angle has a pretty significant impact on me due to swing compensations that i am making in reaction to the lie angle. My last call out is that around being careful with the output from static fitting charts. Many of the static fitting charts say I need something shorter than stock and about 2 degrees flat, but 2 degrees flat from what standard? Two degrees flat of Titleist stock spec 7 iron is 61, two degrees flat of Mizuno stock spec 7 iron is 59.5, that is a lot of difference. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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If I hit the ball high enough to set the ball down within 3-4 yards I am seeing thru my Bushnell then that is good for me.  I am not a digger so spin is not an issue.  Does not always happen but my goal and what I am working on.  When playing with scratch golfers their launch is off the charts.  At 75 only wish I had that swing speed.    

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Titleist

DRIVER - TSi3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR S   

FAIRWAY - TSi2 15.0* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 S

HYBRID - 816H1 18.0* - Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour Spec S

HYBRID - 818H1 21.0* - Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour Spec S

IRONS - T300 (2019) - 5-W - True Temper AMT Red 107g-95gm R300

WEDGES - VOKEY SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94gm R300                                                           VOKEY SM7 - 58.12D (Snow flaked "Z" ) - N.S. PRO 950GH R300       

***  GolfPride MC+4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges) 

PUTTER -  2020 CAMERON SPECIAL SELECT CUSTOM  - 35" Newport 2                                 *** GolfPride SNSR 104 Grip

GOLF BALL - TITLEIST - Prov1 /-Prov1x 

GOLF BAG - TITLEIST - Midsize Tour Bag Black/Black/Red and Black Cart 14 

Footjoy | Mike Fay Golf

GOLF GLOVE - FOOTJOY - StaSof, Hyper Flex, StaCooler, Rain Glove

SHOES - FOOTJOY - Premieres, Traditions, Tradition MyJoys, Pro/SLs, Flex, Flex XP, DryJoy Tour MyJoys, Icon MyJoys, Rain Boots. 

APPAREL - FOOTJOY 

Industry Day at the Range - Bushnell Optics RANGEFINDER - Pro XE

 

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