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Chipping vs the 7i bump and run


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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

That is really interesting;  I can't imagine balls rolling that far.  How far off the green were you when you were hitting the shots?

We have about a 3 foot fringe, then a similar second cut before the rough.  I chipped from both the second cut and the rough.

The club stays low on backswing and through swing with forward shaft lean for my bump and run shot.  When it lands on the green, the ball takes off.  I can vary the height of the shot by adding more dynamic loft and land the ball in the same place, but that's when I decel. I don't decel when I use my LW.

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2 hours ago, Kenny B said:

We have about a 3 foot fringe, then a similar second cut before the rough.  I chipped from both the second cut and the rough.

The club stays low on backswing and through swing with forward shaft lean for my bump and run shot.  When it lands on the green, the ball takes off.  I can vary the height of the shot by adding more dynamic loft and land the ball in the same place, but that's when I decel. I don't decel when I use my LW.

so your chipping it about 6 feet and it ran out 100 feet;  those are some seriously fast greens.   With a 5 I would only expect 50/60 feet max.   That result is just puzzling to me. 

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I'm almost always a bump and run guy when it is feasible as the margin for error is much higher. When I hit a bump and run, the next is is at worst always a putt. If I try to chip and mess it up, I'm left with another chip, either 3' from my previous lie or I've skulled it across the green and am now chipping back on again. 

Granted I will only try to bump and run if I'm confident that I can get it to the green or fringe in the air. 

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6 hours ago, cnosil said:

so your chipping it about 6 feet and it ran out 100 feet;  those are some seriously fast greens.   With a 5 I would only expect 50/60 feet max.   That result is just puzzling to me. 

It's why I use wedges, and why I chose to fly my LW onto the green to a spot where I think the ball will roll out to the hole.  I'm better at judging that than how far each wedge/iron will roll out.

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On 11/2/2020 at 9:13 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

Another thought on this subject.  I remember Harvey Penick advocated for using a 7 iron to chip with.  However, that was when 7 irons were 36 to 38 degrees of loft.  Today, that would be a weak 8 iron or strong 9 in many sets.  If you are chipping with a modern strong lofted 7 iron, you are essentially using a classic 5 iron.  That may be why I am having so much trouble dialing in the 7 iron.

The way I was taught decades ago was pick the iron that goes the same distance for your feel as if you were making a long putt of the same length. Years ago that was a 6i for me, it’s an 8i now, as you noted. That way you can simply stroke the ball exactly as you would with a putter. Obviously that doesn’t work if there’s a lot of fringe. 

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

The way I was taught decades ago was pick the iron that goes the same distance for your feel as if you were making a long putt of the same length. Years ago that was a 6i for me, it’s an 8i now, as you noted. That way you can simply stroke the ball exactly as you would with a putter. Obviously that doesn’t work if there’s a lot of fringe. 

I like that thought for feel for the distance.

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On 11/2/2020 at 12:12 AM, Buffly said:

@Jwilson95 it comes down to what people get more used to and score better with. 

The 7i bump and run is a true chip more than a lofted wedge which more of a true pitch. 

My definition of a chip is a stroke that is mostly like a putt with little to no wrist action to limit the distance in a controlled manor. 

My definition of a pitch is a shortened stroke, when compared with a full swing, to carry shorter distances than full swings but, carry farther than a short chip and, usually has some form of wrist hinge. 

Semantics of chip or pitch don't matter but, the execution of those two shots is very different. I can understand why a weekend golfer, who doesn't practice much, would feel more comfortable chipping a mid iron instead of pitching a lofted wedge - the shorter stroke has a lot less that can go wrong. 

But, a bump and run is lie dependent. You have to be able to land the ball in a place that will allow a long run out. 

The lofted wedge will not run out as far so, you can land closer to the target. The rub comes in making a partial swing of different size/speed to create different lengths - another struggle for some. 

I play both the wedge and bumps whenever I want interchangeabley - mostly just to keep myself entertained and fool around with variety. 

50 yards out to a front pin - I don't think anyone is going for a 7i bump and run pitch shot. But, a back pin with a big green and coming from under a tree - every time.

Close to the green is where I can agree with bump and runs more than high loft - I'm talking about less than 10 yards off the green. Using a putting stroke, a simple mid iron chip will clear alot of the rough and roll up to the pin with little effort and a short swing. The higher lofted wedge would need a bigger movement to go the same distance which can bring the dreaded skull across the green into play. I've even chipped with my fairway wood when I am on the fringe to bump and run. 

That's why I love golf - lots of ways to be creative and have fun. 

That was really well said! 

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On 11/2/2020 at 4:24 AM, Hoyoymac said:

Some people really struggle with chipping and putting despite the fact that they are the shortest swings and require very little physical strength or athletic ability.  The frustration of a missed chip or putt is often magnified because many people think chipping and putting is inherently easier than the full swing so there isn’t the same emphasis on learning good technique or practicing. 

I have witnessed a number of people struggle so much with the mental pressure of chipping and putting that they develop a physical flinch which is commonly called “The Yips”.

Since more strokes in a round of golf are made on and around the green than anywhere else it is my contention that if you want to improve your handicap quickly, then working on chipping and putting will lead to a faster result than anything else.

Chipping is my most improved skill over the last few years and the part of the game that I now have the most confidence in.

After struggling for years with a lack of confidence around the greens and experimenting with different clubs and methods, I was lucky enough to have a lesson from a veteran teaching pro who showed me an old school method of chipping that really clicked.

My wedge set-up includes a 48, 52, 56 & 60 wedges.  The clubs I use the most around the green are my 60 & 56.  

The method I was taught was to put the ball in line with my back foot with a stance fairly open to the target and my weight forward towards the target. Then I deloft the wedge by moving my hands toward my front thigh which puts a lot of forward shaft lean in the stroke and then close the club face by rotating the shaft slightly before regripping the club.  I then make a simple back and through stroke with little to no wrist action and an emphasis on an equal or longer follow through than backswing.  I keep my hands well forward of the club head throughout the swing.  The face of the club hits the ball with a descending blow and pops the ball slightly in the air, up and over the fringe, then rolls to the hole usually checking up after the first or second bounce.

Imagine the feeling of pulling the handle forward with your hands toward the target instead of trying to push the handle forward.

Earlier this year I read Dave Pelz’s Short Game Bible and he teaches a very similar technique but explains the theory and technique much more thoroughly.  I strongly recommend his book.

To get the ball to fly higher and stop more quickly don’t lean the shaft forward as much and take a slightly longer swing.

I use the same swing on most chip shots and just change clubs to get more distance and roll out.

The common mistakes I see from my playing partners are:

1. Taking too big of a back swing and then decelerating coming into the ball.

2. Using too much hand and wrist action and trying to help the ball into the air.

3. Trying to fly the ball all the way to the hole. 

4. Having the bulk of their weight on the back foot instead of the front foot.

The results from these mistakes tend to be inconsistent distance with lots of duffs and skulls.

The best golfer I play with putts from off the green almost every time.  He is unbelievably good at judging the required pace.  He does this because he doesn’t have confidence in his chipping.  He calls me “Mr. Chips” because from the same place I will chip most every time now because I don’t have confidence in putting from off the green.

So, use what works best for you.  If putting from off the green with a putter or a hybrid or fairway wood works better for you then do that.  If a specialized chipping club like the Square Strike club works better then use that.  If a 7 iron works better then use that.

The goal is the fewest strokes to get the ball in the hole.

 As my friend says, “The good thing about the game of golf is that the score card doesn’t record how you got the ball into the hole, just the result.  There aren’t any places on the scorecard for pictures, so don’t worry about how you look getting the ball into the hole.”

 

@HoyoymacI’m glad you said that. What you do is the exact same shot that I learned! (I think my dad was tired of watching me skull it over the green haha). Like you said it’s Basically a really delofted putting stroke, lined up on my back foot, weight and hands forward  with a 52-60 degree depending on how far I want the ball to carry over the rough stuff. Honestly it’s such a fun shot! I love taking 20-30 of those on the practice green after the driving range and I can always sink a few.  And then when I want to pop it up a little and get some backspin I pull back a little further and follow through with a good swift stroke and whip the club head. I’ll for sure check out that Dave Pelz short game bible. Thanks for the tip!

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a bunch of years ago during a chipping lesson, back when I was using a 7 iron to chip, the pro said to lift the heal of the iron up slightly away from the ground which will deaden the shot and they won't roll out so far.  Since I'm strictly using 58* to chip now I haven't tried that recently but will do so when practicing next time.  

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I grew up in the bump and run world using a variety of irons from 5i to 9i. Somehow I took myself to a 58 degree and carrying the ball to the hole. I got comfortable with that but struggled with spin control and still do. I got myself back to a bump and run guy by using my 9i and 51 degree more and more. I feel like I get the ball closer to the hole by going this route but it does take practice.

I do let the shot dictate if I carry it or bump it. I do think that getting the ball running as soon as possible is the way to go but it can be tough to master it. 

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55 minutes ago, RobbyT said:

I would say try the 7 iron and if it works better, use it. Otherwise just stay with what you are doing.

I mean, we're all fanatics here. So work on both to have both shots in your toolbox. But then rely primarily on the one that you're more comfortable with. 

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On 11/2/2020 at 7:36 AM, Kenny B said:

An 80 year old friend of mine in Florida showed me the 7i bump and run shot when I first took up golf.  Worked OK in Florida on his slow Bermuda greens, but it's never a club that I would use here in Washington.  Our greens are poa annua or bent grass and generally quite fast.  Any club longer than a PW will run to the other side of the green if chipping from just off the green.  I find it difficult to judge how far the ball will roll out using an iron.  If I'm close enough I'm putting, otherwise I'm using my 60º for for most all shots.  I know how far to carry the shot into the green because I practice with my 60º all the time.  I have several shots with different trajectories that I can use depending on where the hole is located on the green.  When I need to go over a bunker, it's the same shot for me.

Whatever club you use for chipping, the key is to get used to the shots you will likely encounter on the course and practice them.  Practicing them is NOT hitting 6-8 balls before heading to the 1st tee!!!  The biggest reason players don't use a LW is they don't practice with it.  Carrying a LW that you never use and then expecting to pull off a shot with it when you need to is a corollary to the "definition of insanity".

Haha that’s a great point about the definition of insanity! 😅 I had a sand wedge in my bag for a while that I never practiced with and it got nixed and pulled out so I could put a club I use/like more 

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On 11/3/2020 at 6:05 AM, russtopherb said:

"Well, the pros say to do this..."

Well, the pros can practice 8 hours a day. I have one course where I can practice my short game when I can, which isn't all that often. Maybe a few hours per month if I'm lucky. So I'm a big fan of chipping with an iron and getting the ball rolling as soon as possible to prevent skulled & bladed chips. Take all the variables out whenever possible.

That’s a really great point! Wouldn’t it be nice to just always play private courses for 8 hrs a day and have that luxury? Man that’s the life. 

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On 11/2/2020 at 9:13 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

Another thought on this subject.  I remember Harvey Penick advocated for using a 7 iron to chip with.  However, that was when 7 irons were 36 to 38 degrees of loft.  Today, that would be a weak 8 iron or strong 9 in many sets.  If you are chipping with a modern strong lofted 7 iron, you are essentially using a classic 5 iron.  That may be why I am having so much trouble dialing in the 7 iron.

Another factor, green speeds are MUCH faster now than they were even 20 years ago, let alone 40 or 50.  So with reduced lofts and faster greens, using a "higher-number" club to chip with makes a lot of sense.  I use my 60 for the majority of my short game shots, but when I have more green to work with, and less fairway grass to carry, I'll use less lofted clubs.  And if I'm in places with really firm turf and short fairway grass, I'll use a true chip and run, landing the shot well short of the green.  Practice everything, the more tools you have in your arsenal, the better you'll be able to adapt to different conditions and different shot requirements.

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36 minutes ago, Jwilson95 said:

That’s a really great point! Wouldn’t it be nice to just always play private courses for 8 hrs a day and have that luxury? Man that’s the life.

Welcome to my world. Private course (Robert Trent Jones) , never have to make a tee time. Play as a single , foursome or even 5.  You don't even have to play all 18 in order. It's all good. Played 18 today started on hole 4 and after hole #18 I played 1, 2, and 3. Left the house at 12:00 and was home by 3:00.  I'm not rubbing it in I'm just fortunate to have a wife that is over accounting there.  Otherwise I wouldn't get to play as much. 

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I’ll chip with most of my irons: as long as there’s nothing but green between me and the cup. Distance determines the club,but the stroke remains the same length: essentially a putting stroke. I pitch with my 60 degree vokey and spend a lot of time practicing various distances and trajectories. My main course features all elevated greens, so pitching suits my game and eye much more for that course. To me it’s too situational to ever be an either or...


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Lots of good recommendations here.

In our TFT chapter, we encourage kids to experiment with lots of different clubs around the green.  If you're not trying to get the ball over rough or a bunker, there's lots of different ways to skin the cat.  I'm someone who likes to get the ball on the ground and running as soon as possible.  Depending upon the texture of the fringe, I'll play the ball over it or use it to take some speed off the ball.  But at my dad's course in SC where they have paspalum grass in the fringe, if you land the ball in that fringe, it will jump forward about a foot and then die.  It's like velcro.

As @DaveP043 states, I'm using clubs with larger numbers to hit these shots with, because of stronger lofts and also hotter faces.  

My younger daughter tries to use a sand wedge for all shots around the green, with varying degrees of success.  You just can't tell these kids what to do...

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On 11/6/2020 at 5:35 PM, DaveP043 said:

Another factor, green speeds are MUCH faster now than they were even 20 years ago, let alone 40 or 50.  So with reduced lofts and faster greens, using a "higher-number" club to chip with makes a lot of sense.  I use my 60 for the majority of my short game shots, but when I have more green to work with, and less fairway grass to carry, I'll use less lofted clubs.  And if I'm in places with really firm turf and short fairway grass, I'll use a true chip and run, landing the shot well short of the green.  Practice everything, the more tools you have in your arsenal, the better you'll be able to adapt to different conditions and different shot requirements.

Great post and I don’t disagree for those who play enough to develop “more tools.” But for those who have/make little or no time for practice, I wonder if you’re better off using only bump and run OR high lofted wedges as often as possible - e.g. I’d rather be proficient at one than mediocre at both? Right or wrong I default to my 8i, which is workable 90% of the time. I muddle through when I’m forced to use my 56 or 60, but that happens less than once a round for me. I’ll be the first to admit it’s not an easy question.

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I am now situational in my club selection. I had previously used the 54 as my go to but have found that using my 9 iron for basic chips has resulted in getting closer to the hole and is more predictable. As I move away from the hole I try to use the 9 but will switch to the 54 if I need more carry.

That’s pretty close to what I do except I use 8iron. Been doing it a long time that way and works for me....most of the time.


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I am now situational in my club selection. I had previously used the 54 as my go to but have found that using my 9 iron for basic chips has resulted in getting closer to the hole and is more predictable. As I move away from the hole I try to use the 9 but will switch to the 54 if I need more carry.

That’s pretty close to what I do except I use 8iron. Been doing it a long time that way and works for me....most of the time.


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I am now situational in my club selection. I had previously used the 54 as my go to but have found that using my 9 iron for basic chips has resulted in getting closer to the hole and is more predictable. As I move away from the hole I try to use the 9 but will switch to the 54 if I need more carry.

That’s pretty close to what I do except I use 8iron. Been doing it a long time that way and works for me....most of the time.


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Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
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7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
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Using more loft when chipping has been proven to be less accurate, so I usually use my 8 iron. I may use something else if I’ve shortsided myself, but I’m much better with the bump-and-run.

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I learned how to chip with the 58 degree because that what the pro used. 

 

as stated here the chipping motion is different than a 7i bump and run. I have tried to add a 7i bump in run to my shot selection but I always end up way over my intended target. I'll stick to my chip shot beside who doesn't love to see the ball check up!

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These days,I carry four wedges (PW, GW, SW, LW) but go to the ‘ole faithful 7i around the green. I played HS golf when you only had a PW and maybe a SW if you were lucky. The bump and run was the shot of choice, and we weren’t concerned with bounce. After a clinic last year, I’ve tried a 3H around the green. After all, golf is an art as well as a science for Bryson.


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Did some bump and run practice yesterday and may need to stick with it. Felt more confident and had better distance from the cup compared to landing a wedge close. 

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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I do better with an 8 iron or PW.

Only use the (finesse) wedges when trying to go over an obstacle, out of sand, over bushes, etc.

My Son can play all the fancy wedge shots, no matter what the lie is.

For me, it has to be sitting on grass, and I know when to not try it.

Always chasing different clubs

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On 11/10/2020 at 10:55 PM, Golf Dawg said:

I played HS golf when you only had a PW and maybe a SW if you were lucky. The bump and run was the shot of choice, and we weren’t concerned with bounce.

I too grew up in the era where wedges meant a pitching wedge and a sand wedge, I started in the early 1970s.  And I agree, a lower-lofted running shot was usually the choice.  But green speeds in that era were MUCH slower than they are now, and higher-flying softer shots are needed much more often on today's faster greens.  Its good to have all of the shots.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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I am now team bump and run. I had always struggled with high lofted wedges with pitch shots from the fairway, and chip shots. Generally leave them short.

Last couple of rounds i went bump and run (with no practice) and they generally worked out pretty well.

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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I go with the 7-iron chip route because its much easier and more consistent to just get the ball rolling.  You just take so many variables out of play and even if you mishit it, your ball is still going to be on the green and fairly close to where you intended.

With a lob wedge, if you mishit it, you are either going to duff it and have the ball go 5 feet or you are going to skull it 50 yards over the green.  Not to mention you have to factor in for how much spin you are going to get and how soft the green is.

Forget about the lob wedge flop shots, go old school and just get it rolling on the green.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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My daughter worked on short game with her coach the other day, and we talked about this after the lesson.  She also likes the idea of getting the ball on the ground and rolling as soon as possible, only playing the high shot when it's required.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
4 Wood (18*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
Ball -  :titleist-small: AVX
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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