Useful automated swing analysis app - any out there?

[jbaker3004]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum (and still pretty new to golf to be fair!) so if this is out of topic or against rules then please let me know. Anyway, I've been working on my swing recently, trying to refine and improve as I still have some bad habits which make my game inconsistent. 

I've tried a bunch of swing analysis apps but I was disappointed because they are either just a glorified video recording app, or they get you to send your videos off to a golf pro for analysis (for a pretty sizeable fee). Does anyone else have this problem? I find the hardware type swing analyzers (ie. Arcos, Zepp, et al.) don't really help with this that much, and other products like Flightscope are really too expensive.

I'm a techie so have been hacking together my own app which can record my swing and automatically perform swing analysis on the spot (using image analysis/computer vision). I'm building it so it looks at posture throughout the swing, club positioning, grip, swing curvature, tempo, and club face on impact. The plan is to clip my phone onto my golf bag and position it so I can record from behind or side-on. 

I'm testing this on myself and a few golf buddies right now - but wondering if anyone else would be interested in using an app like this? Would love to hear if anyone else has this issue or if there is actually an app out there that already does something similar? 

It would be great to get some additional testers too. If interested let me know - I've created a cheap landing page to easily get some sign ups for testing: https://golfmatics.carrd.co/ 

Thanks!

[cnosil]

The big question is what qualifications do you have to analyze a swing.  If you build an app,  there has to be logic.  

[Tarheelvolvo]

 

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

The big question is what qualifications do you have to analyze a swing.  If you build an app,  there has to be logic.  

I second what @cnosil said @jbaker3004. I'm all for bringing tech to the masses and a lower price point as well, however everyone's swing is a bit different and forcing them all into the same "box" could prove detrimental to their game. 

What are your plans to analyze the swing and make recommendations based on a players existing swing type? Is the plan to make a bit of a course out of it for improvements week over week? Do you have a golf instructor as part of your dev team? 

Like the ideas, lot of questions about execution as I definitely want this to succeed!

[HardcoreLooper]

@Tarheelvolvo knows what he's talking about.

The best app I've seen for this so far is V1, combined with a good instructor, who can mark up the videos you send in, give you commentary and things to work on.  

I'm working on an AI project with one of my clients right now, so it would be really cool to use that tech to do something like compare you to the tour pro you're most like and give you drills to get you closer to that ideal.

[DaveP043]

23 hours ago, jbaker3004 said:

or they get you to send your videos off to a golf pro for analysis (for a pretty sizeable fee

The value comes from having a good instructor look at the video.  Any bozo (including me) can look at a golf swing and find "issues" with it.  In almost every case, the "issue" is a symptom of something else.  The real skill is in determining the cause of the "issue", and in providing the golfer with a method to correct the cause.  The correction methods might include any of a number of different drills or "feels", and each golfer will respond to some of those drills and feels, but not to others.  Even if you were to work with a great golf instructor, I don't believe you could program an app to replace his eyes and his judgement.  Doing this on your own would be next to worthless.

23 hours ago, jbaker3004 said:

Anyway, I've been working on my swing recently, trying to refine and improve as I still have some bad habits which make my game inconsistent. 

What are you doing to work on your swing?  You have some bad habits, how have you determined the root cause of these habits?  Please don't tell me you're using Youtube videos, for every single symptom you can find dozens and dozens of different "cures", and many of them will contradict one another.

[cnosil]

...

I wish I could like your post 1000 times!!!

[DPattGolf]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The value comes from having a good instructor look at the video.  Any bozo (including me) can look at a golf swing and find "issues" with it.  In almost every case, the "issue" is a symptom of something else.  The real skill is in determining the cause of the "issue", and in providing the golfer with a method to correct the cause.  The correction methods might include any of a number of different drills or "feels", and each golfer will respond to some of those drills and feels, but not to others.  Even if you were to work with a great golf instructor, I don't believe you could program an app to replace his eyes and his judgement.  Doing this on your own would be next to worthless.

Could have said it better myself!

I also feel its worth mentioning that even though I am an instructor and plenty knowledgeable, I rarely truly analyze my own full swing on video by myself. This is actually something a lot more teaching pros do than most realize. This is because we all naturally hold biases about what we may not like in our own swings that can often blind us from the end goal of building a swing that helps us play as consistence as possible. Not to have the prettiest swing. 

So when I do feel like things are getting a bit away from me and I'm starting to notice some issues while playing, I have 5 or 6 other pros who I can either send a video to and have a text conversation with or even find a time for a comprehensive in person lesson

[BMart519]

@jbaker3004A few suggestions/considerations based on my very basic knowledge of A.I. and machine learning using photos and videos:

- how do you plan on populating your database of images/video of "ideal" swings and positions?

- are you going to capture physical characteristics and capabilities of testers? Or more importantly, their movement restrictions... For example, having a user input their scores or measurements from a TPI movement screen that highlights poor hip mobility would add context why a swing looks a certain way and also what movements that person is incapable of performing thus eliminating potential corrections. 

- Ideally, you would analyze a video linked to ball data. Using the Jim Furyk swing scenario: an automated system would highlight several points in the swing where the club was outside of normal/average angles and positions. If you aren't diagnosing problems with ball flight, your system is just solving for a prettier swing picture. 

[ejgaudette]

18Birdes, the phone based golf GPS app, has this capability (if you pay for it, but first month is free). I have tried it and I agree with others that it tries to fit people into a single box as they had at the time one swing to compare you too. It did help outline one fault I know I have with my spine angle getting out of sorts. Having multiple acceptable swings would help, but think the swing is very complex and the technology is a bit far a way to use without a teaching pro to break the video down.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Pros I have worked with use v1, hudl/technique. These allow them to add in lines, etc as part of their analysis of a swing based on their years of experience.

Apps like skillest or CoachNow are avenues to connect with coaches for online lessons. The fees associated with these are for the time of the coach to review and analyze the swing and provide feedback.

Things like arccos aren’t necessarily used for swing analysis but data analysis of ones game to improve play/club selection on a course.

I work with a coach who charges a small fee compared to others and he take the swing video via text message and sends back analysis the same way along with videos on demonstrating whatever he’s trying to communicate