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MGS Most Wanted SGI Irons - 2020 Results


russtopherb

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Main article on the site can be found here - https://mygolfspy.com/best-super-game-improvement-irons-2020/

My quick takeaways: The Cobra came in out of left field, because to be honest, I didn't even know that was a line that *existed*. The TA 845 Max wasn't too surprising based on the reviews that line has received from some forum members. The success of the Launcher HBs, T-Rails, and Launch Pads across the board are just more of a realization for me that I need to get out of my own head and try out hybrid irons. As someone who plays 2-3x a month, they're aimed directly at me. My poor experience with the Altitudes came at a time before I got lessons and I'm betting my swing may work with that style club a lot differently nowadays.

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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No wonder I can't stop my Mavrik Max's on the green!  Very low spin.  To be fair, our greens are new and very firm.  They should be better next year.  But the results do highlight an issue with strong lofted irons.  I think most high handicappers and older golfers with slow swing speeds would be better served to play irons with either weaker lofts or higher spin rates.

14 of the following:

Ping G430 Max 10.5 degree

Callaway 2023 Big Bertha 3 wood set to 17 degrees

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Callaway Epic Max 11 wood

Ping Eye 2 BeCu 2-SW

Mizuno 923 JPX HM HL 6-GW

Hogan sand wedge 56 degree bent to 53

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree

Evnroll ER2

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

Cheap Top Flite mallet putter from Dick's, currently holding down first place in the bag

TaylorMade Mini Spider

Bridgestone XS

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24 minutes ago, Hook DeLoft said:

No wonder I can't stop my Mavrik Max's on the green!  Very low spin.  To be fair, our greens are new and very firm.  They should be better next year.  But the results do highlight an issue with strong lofted irons.  I think most high handicappers and older golfers with slow swing speeds would be better served to play irons with either weaker lofts or higher spin rates.

Interesting. Unless I hit a thin one or super delofted one by mistake, my Mavrik Max's stop on a dime. 

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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7 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Interesting. Unless I hit a thin one or super delofted one by mistake, my Mavrik Max's stop on a dime. 

looks like you have a high launch shaft (basically light) that could be contributing to that.

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Interesting. Unless I hit a thin one or super delofted one by mistake, my Mavrik Max's stop on a dime. 

It may just be that our greens are so firm. I can’t remember the last time I saw a ball mark on one. I do think 7 iron spin in the 4000’s is concerning. 

14 of the following:

Ping G430 Max 10.5 degree

Callaway 2023 Big Bertha 3 wood set to 17 degrees

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Callaway Epic Max 11 wood

Ping Eye 2 BeCu 2-SW

Mizuno 923 JPX HM HL 6-GW

Hogan sand wedge 56 degree bent to 53

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree

Evnroll ER2

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

Cheap Top Flite mallet putter from Dick's, currently holding down first place in the bag

TaylorMade Mini Spider

Bridgestone XS

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It may just be that our greens are so firm. I can’t remember the last time I saw a ball mark on one. I do think 7 iron spin in the 4000’s is concerning. 

It will probably depend on the player. The SGI pool is generally the older group of testers. I participated and with enough speed the ball would spin more. As mentioned, the SGI clubs had lights shafts which made it difficult to really swing at full speed. I focused on contact and not speed.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

the SGI clubs had lights shafts which made it difficult to really swing at full speed

I realize the expense limits options, but it sure would provide more meaningful data if some shaft options were made available for these HIT Squad reviews.  Can't they set these up with CONEX or similar systems?

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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I realize the expense limits options, but it sure would provide more meaningful data if some shaft options were made available for these HIT Squad reviews.  Can't they set these up with CONEX or similar systems?

We hit clubs as would be on the rack at the store. OEMs don’t put that type of system in their irons. There are some shaft options, but it depends on what the OEM sends.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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29 minutes ago, cnosil said:


We hit clubs as would be on the rack at the store. OEMs don’t put that type of system in their irons. There are some shaft options, but it depends on what the OEM sends.

I would think that the OEM's would place more value on assuring the best fit possible with anyone/group doing testing of their products.  I presume (perhaps incorrectly) that the OEM's are providing the clubs to MGS (HitSquad)?

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I would think that the OEM's would place more value on assuring the best fit possible with anyone/group doing testing of their products.  I presume (perhaps incorrectly) that the OEM's are providing the clubs to MGS (HitSquad)?

I'll let CNosil answer again as he is an actual tester. But the OEM's know that less than 1 to 2 percent of all golfers get fit.  The vast majority of club sales is bought off the rack in a retail store.  They might take one or two swings in a simulator and decide between 9 or 10.5 or Stiff or Regular, but they are not being "fit" in most cases.  

Even with the customization of specs that are now available, the number of players that actually get fit is still miniscule. 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I'll let CNosil answer again as he is an actual tester. But the OEM's know that less than 1 to 2 percent of all golfers get fit.  The vast majority of club sales is bought off the rack in a retail store.  They might take one or two swings in a simulator and decide between 9 or 10.5 or Stiff or Regular, but they are not being "fit" in most cases.  

Even with the customization of specs that are now available, the number of players that actually get fit is still miniscule. 

Do they know something we don't? 🤔

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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I understand that many people shopping in the SGI category want distance but the low spin numbers are ridiculous. However, it would be interesting to take some of the clubs and try to match their lofts as much as possible and retest for spin. This would determine if the low spin is driven by the club's design or if it is just a result of being a lower loft. I think the higher lofts are primarily what drove the higher spin numbers for Cobra but I could be wrong. 

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Obviously spin is important, but remember the target audience. If you're consistently flying the ball to the green and wanting it to stop, you're probably going to move up to something that is either weaker lofted and generates more spin, or you probably swing the club hard enough to launch the ball higher and rely on the peak height and descent angle to help stop the ball. Flippers, who probably make up a good number of these golfers, are going to present a ton of loft at impact anyway.

My Cobra SpeedZones don't spin the ball a lot either, but by combating it with a spinny ball and enough swing speed/launch angle, I can't recall having too many issues getting the ball to stop this year. That being said, I do play most of my rounds on a course with old and soft greens.

I hate generalizing because I know several in this thread play these types of irons and have games that are better than your typically 110+ player who is more concerned about the quantity of beer drank than quantity of strokes during a round. But when I'm thinking of the target audience who is going to their local golf store and buying off the rack, I'm thinking about my father-in-law who needs every ounce of distance he can get, and is likely running the ball onto the green unless he's within chipping distance. If it comes in from the air it's going to have so much left-to-right slice on it the ball isn't going to stop anyway.

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

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19 minutes ago, NC Golfer said:

Russ, Once you are hitting the ball well with hybrid irons, you'll get over the stigma quickly. I recommend the HB Turbos. If you can find an old set of HB3's, those are great.

I've never gotten along with hybrids in general, and the Altitudes I had in the lower irons at one point didn't work out too well for me. It's not a stigma at all, rather a mental block at looking down at anything hybrid and thinking "this is gonna go way left" and then... it happens. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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5 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I would think that the OEM's would place more value on assuring the best fit possible with anyone/group doing testing of their products.  I presume (perhaps incorrectly) that the OEM's are providing the clubs to MGS (HitSquad)?

I don't know them all, but there are actually rules on what can be submitted.  All clubs submitted must be available to purchase without any upcharges.   There have been manufacturers eliminated from testing because the clubs they submitted where not available for consumers to purchase.   MGS does their best to fit the testers to the clubs that have been provided.   In most cases the OEMs provide the clubs,  but there are instances where MGS purchases clubs for the testing; this generally happens when a high profile OEM doesn't submit clubs.  

As @Golfspy_CG2 indicated, most people don't get fit;  they walk into a shop hit a few clubs and decide which one they want.  From talking with golfers on the course most have very little knowledge about clubs.   As an example I was asked by someone on my golf team what kind of shaft I had in my driver because he previously had one and he didn't hit it well.  I responded that is was the new KBS TD Wood shaft and it was an aftermarket shaft.  His response was that he only wanted to know if it was stiff or regular.  

 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

His response was that he only wanted to know if it was stiff or regular.

LOL.  Tell him it is a regular stiff and watch for the look 🙂

Confused GIFs | Tenor

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, cnosil said:

I don't know them all, but there are actually rules on what can be submitted.  All clubs submitted must be available to purchase without any upcharges.   There have been manufacturers eliminated from testing because the clubs they submitted where not available for consumers to purchase.   MGS does their best to fit the testers to the clubs that have been provided.   In most cases the OEMs provide the clubs,  but there are instances where MGS purchases clubs for the testing; this generally happens when a high profile OEM doesn't submit clubs.  

As @Golfspy_CG2 indicated, most people don't get fit;  they walk into a shop hit a few clubs and decide which one they want.  From talking with golfers on the course most have very little knowledge about clubs.   As an example I was asked by someone on my golf team what kind of shaft I had in my driver because he previously had one and he didn't hit it well.  I responded that is was the new KBS TD Wood shaft and it was an aftermarket shaft.  His response was that he only wanted to know if it was stiff or regular.  

 

 

What?? You didn’t give him the torque rating and bend profile🤣🤣


This is gold, and sums up every conversation between a forum golfer and a casual weekend joe golfer. 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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11 hours ago, russtopherb said:

I've never gotten along with hybrids in general, and the Altitudes I had in the lower irons at one point didn't work out too well for me. It's not a stigma at all, rather a mental block at looking down at anything hybrid and thinking "this is gonna go way left" and then... it happens. 

I will say that is the one downside of the club. They will go left. I suspect it is weighted that way as slicers are a good candidate for this type of club. I tend to hit the ball straight and an occasional left hit isn't a deal breaker. 

 

Personally did not like the Altitudes. But, there is a bit of a cult following for that club. 

 

Edited by NC Golfer
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Well also think about how these clubs are also oriented towards people with bad striking and who don't play or practice all that often.

 

When i was first starting out, I had so many holes in my game that I wasn't paying attention to things like spin and how well the ball stuck on the greens. Instead, I was ecstatic hitting relatively straight, relatively high shots consistently. And these hybrid irons are designed just for that: forgive mishits and chunks, get the ball up in the air, and straighten out the not as bad strikes. 

 

So I think that they actually give their target audience what they're looking for. And for the more experienced players or as a new player develops, you learn that on most courses, you can aim a bit differently to account for the lack of spin. 

Rag tag bag, but it does the job. 

Taylormade R1 driver.

Ping G400 3 wood.

Cleveland Halo Launcher 3 hybrid.

Cleveland CBX launcher irons (5-PW). 

Assorted wedges (48, 52, 58).

Odyssey White Hot Pro 2.0 putter.

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