Are my Irons holding me back?

[MNGolfer20]

New to the forum, and hoping to get some wisdom from the group. 

Little context about my game. Have been playing for a number of years, but primarily used golf as an opportunity to drink with buddies. This past summer was the first year in my life that I actually started to take my golf game seriously, practice, work on my swing, etc. I went from shooting 110+ to being in the low to mid 90's fairly consistently. 

Part of my quest to become a decent golfer was to learn more about by swing and ball flight. Last week I spent some time on a Trackman, and I was able to put some numbers to the ball flights I was seeing on the course. My main concern is that my ball flight is too low, and decent angles are not at a place where I have confidence holding greens. I am curious how much of this is due to my swing, and how much is due to the irons I play. I currently have some very old Callaway X-16 irons...they were released back in 2003. 

Trackman data for my 7i...

 

I have trouble launching the ball to a decent height with decent spin, and this is fairly consistent will all of my irons. I can provide any other data points if you have questions.

 

I want to understand why this might be happening to me, and how much newer clubs could help? 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Sounds like you could benefit from a new set. I would see a fitter to make sure you get the right irons for your game. What shaft are you playing and what flex is it? This could be as much your shaft as much as your heads. I presume your grooves are still good on your irons. A 17 yr old set will not have the benefits of the current irons. You will likely gain distance and height as lofts are lower and CG is lowered so you should get higher launch. There are some great deals on new clubs now so get fitted and get in on the action if you are concerned.

 

Edit: It could also be you may need a more tour like ball. Those can affect launch and spin as well.

Edited November 23, 2020 by rbsiedsc

[Tom the Golf Nut]

The loft on your 7 iron for that model is 34 degrees. Manufacturers reduced lofts over the years to make it seem like you are hitting further. Current game improvment  irons are around 31 degrees for a 7 iron.  So changing your irons before getting your swing tweaked could make things worse. Your launch angle should be somewhere between 19 to 21 degrees. You are at 13 so you could be delofting your club at the impact position. Your ball spin rate is about 1000 rpm lower than what it should be.

There are a lot of things that can influence your ball flight and spin. I suggest first to have someone evaluate your swing. Get a couple of lessons. Then let them help you select the right ball. More spin means more height. But it also means more left or right it you don't hit the ball straight to start with.

[MNGolfer20]

1 hour ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

The loft on your 7 iron for that model is 34 degrees. Manufacturers reduced lofts over the years to make it seem like you are hitting further. Current game improvment  irons are around 31 degrees for a 7 iron.  So changing your irons before getting your swing tweaked could make things worse. Your launch angle should be somewhere between 19 to 21 degrees. You are at 13 so you could be delofting your club at the impact position. Your ball spin rate is about 1000 rpm lower than what it should be.

There are a lot of things that can influence your ball flight and spin. I suggest first to have someone evaluate your swing. Get a couple of lessons. Then let them help you select the right ball. More spin means more height. But it also means more left or right it you don't hit the ball straight to start with.

That is a good point about newer clubs potentially enhancing the problem by lowering the loft even further. I guess my thought was if I were to start using a shaft that was a "high launch" shaft that should help me get the ball in the air. 

 

I cant imagine I am delofting the club face THAT much at impact...maybe has something to do with me closing the club face a little too much? 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, MNGolfer20 said:

 I guess my thought was if I were to start using a shaft that was a "high launch" shaft that should help me get the ball in the air. 

 

There are no standards in golf and people react differently to shafts.   High launch to one manufacturer may be low launch to another.  

[BMart519]

I'm going to choose the no fun answer: 

It's your swing, you're launching your 7 iron at the low end of a driver launch window. Go get some lessons, so you can get you launch into a more reasonable height so a fitter would be able to make a reasonable recommendation.  You aren't going to get any 7 iron that much farther with a swing speed below 80 mph. 

[MNGolfer20]

16 hours ago, BMart519 said:

I'm going to choose the no fun answer: 

It's your swing, you're launching your 7 iron at the low end of a driver launch window. Go get some lessons, so you can get you launch into a more reasonable height so a fitter would be able to make a reasonable recommendation.  You aren't going to get any 7 iron that much farther with a swing speed below 80 mph. 

I appreciate the honesty, and I'm sure you are spot on. The plan this winter is to take a couple lessons, hopefully get my swing to a more manageable place, and then look to see if a more customized set of irons can help me on top of that. 

[Buffly]

22 hours ago, MNGolfer20 said:

New to the forum, and hoping to get some wisdom from the group. 

Little context about my game. Have been playing for a number of years, but primarily used golf as an opportunity to drink with buddies. This past summer was the first year in my life that I actually started to take my golf game seriously, practice, work on my swing, etc. I went from shooting 110+ to being in the low to mid 90's fairly consistently. 

Part of my quest to become a decent golfer was to learn more about by swing and ball flight. Last week I spent some time on a Trackman, and I was able to put some numbers to the ball flights I was seeing on the course. My main concern is that my ball flight is too low, and decent angles are not at a place where I have confidence holding greens. I am curious how much of this is due to my swing, and how much is due to the irons I play. I currently have some very old Callaway X-16 irons...they were released back in 2003. 

Trackman data for my 7i...

 

I have trouble launching the ball to a decent height with decent spin, and this is fairly consistent will all of my irons. I can provide any other data points if you have questions.

 

I want to understand why this might be happening to me, and how much newer clubs could help? 

The irons aren't the issue. If anything, those are high launching irons with a wide sole and forgiving face. So, contact and speed are going to help most. New irons are still going to have the same problem. 

Get some lessons or learn more about the golf swing and practice. 

I have the opposite problem, I hit the ball high no matter what club or shaft I use - it's the Indian.

[MNGolfer20]

I have spent a lot of time this summer working on my swing. It has gotten much better from where it was last year, but it was all DIY help. I think it is time to get a professional to help me get to the next step.

With that being said, has anyone else run into issues with low launch, and have any advice on things to work on? I looked at my Trackman numbers, and my Driver and 7i launch angles are only about half a degree apart. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

31 minutes ago, MNGolfer20 said:

I have spent a lot of time this summer working on my swing. It has gotten much better from where it was last year, but it was all DIY help. I think it is time to get a professional to help me get to the next step.

With that being said, has anyone else run into issues with low launch, and have any advice on things to work on? I looked at my Trackman numbers, and my Driver and 7i launch angles are only about half a degree apart. 

Based on what you're describing, sounds like a lot of thin contact...I'm guessing you almost never take a divot?

Honestly, the best thing you can do is find an instructor and take some lessons.  He/she will be better equipped to diagnose why this happens and how to fix it than a bunch of well-intentioned spies like us that haven't seen your swing, aren't instructors ourselves, etc.

 

[BMart519]

1 hour ago, MNGolfer20 said:

I have spent a lot of time this summer working on my swing. It has gotten much better from where it was last year, but it was all DIY help. I think it is time to get a professional to help me get to the next step.

With that being said, has anyone else run into issues with low launch, and have any advice on things to work on? I looked at my Trackman numbers, and my Driver and 7i launch angles are only about half a degree apart. 

Where do you address the ball in your stance with a 7i? Dead center, forward or back of center? 

Experiment addressing the ball 3/4 of the way towards your front foot in the stance... See what the launch is like. 

You could spend all winter troubleshooting this issue and potentially fix it, or not... Paying money for an instructor isn't sexy, but that 1 hour can probably save you 1 month of trial and error on your own that could be spent getting reps in with a better action. 

[MNGolfer20]

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

Where do you address the ball in your stance with a 7i? Dead center, forward or back of center? 

Experiment addressing the ball 3/4 of the way towards your front foot in the stance... See what the launch is like. 

You could spend all winter troubleshooting this issue and potentially fix it, or not... Paying money for an instructor isn't sexy, but that 1 hour can probably save you 1 month of trial and error on your own that could be spent getting reps in with a better action. 

Typically keep my irons at about middle of stance. When I move the ball forward too much I start to get chunky with my shots.

[russtopherb]

4 hours ago, MNGolfer20 said:

I have spent a lot of time this summer working on my swing. It has gotten much better from where it was last year, but it was all DIY help. I think it is time to get a professional to help me get to the next step.

With that being said, has anyone else run into issues with low launch, and have any advice on things to work on? I looked at my Trackman numbers, and my Driver and 7i launch angles are only about half a degree apart. 

Get the lessons. I was a low ball hitter for the longest time and a lot of it was due to just poor club delivery. I still feel like I hit the ball too low, but I'm much improved after lessons a few years ago. 

Once you've had some eyes on your swing and some help, you can dive into thinking about shiny new sticks. But seriously, I think I bought & sold 3-4 sets of irons trying to buy a swing before a few lessons put me on the right path. 

[azstu324]

Looks like others have mentioned, it's probably your contact. Sounds like your scooping and not compressing.

While new"er" clubs might be nice and may add a level of forgiveness that your current set isn't, it's important to have the understand of how hitting the ball into the ground (not really.. but kind of) will help get you better height, spin, and definitely distance with about what feels like half the effort. A well-compressed ball involves as much legs and hips as it does arms and shoulders.

I'm probably not qualified to give this advice as I'm not an instructor.. and have plenty of flaws of my own.. but try shortening your backswing so your left arm is parallel to the ground at the swings peak. Not as a permanent solution, but to just help understand better body rotation through the 2nd half of the swing. This should help if you have any swaying issues on your back swing that might be drawing you back and away from the ball and causing thin or scooping shots.

Be sure to descend on the ball and then drive all the way through the shot to a posing finish. Once you start to better understand what compressing the ball does for your shot, then you can start to open up more on your backswing.

the more I practice, the luckier I seem to get..

[MNGolfer20]

51 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Get the lessons. I was a low ball hitter for the longest time and a lot of it was due to just poor club delivery. I still feel like I hit the ball too low, but I'm much improved after lessons a few years ago. 

Once you've had some eyes on your swing and some help, you can dive into thinking about shiny new sticks. But seriously, I think I bought & sold 3-4 sets of irons trying to buy a swing before a few lessons put me on the right path. 

Yeah I actually got on the phone with Jason from Sub70 yesterday to ask his opinion on shafts and clubs to see if an upgrade would improve my ball flight. And he mentioned the same thing of taking some time with a professional to work on my swing, and then work with him to get the right set of clubs.

 

Looks like I have a busy winter.

[GolfSpy AFG]

2 hours ago, MNGolfer20 said:

Yeah I actually got on the phone with Jason from Sub70 yesterday to ask his opinion on shafts and clubs to see if an upgrade would improve my ball flight. And he mentioned the same thing of taking some time with a professional to work on my swing, and then work with him to get the right set of clubs.

 

Looks like I have a busy winter.

Wow.  So my opinion of Sub70 just went up...  Feel like most would try to sell you some sticks.

[ZenGolfer]

Id agree with keeping your old clubs and having someone help you to improve your swing.  It looks like you are probably delofting the club, which would explain your numbers and why you are getting a low ball flight.

Im of the mind that new clubs are almost never the answer, unless you are still playing persimmons or your old clubs are broken.  Just look at the past 30 years: even after all the supposed advances in clubs, 50% of golfers never break 100.  If new clubs were so much better, as we are led to believe, a much higher percentage should be breaking 100, if not 90.

[dlow206]

Im going to be somewhat of a contrarian. And it doesn’t have to do whether the equipment will help your performance or not.

will getting new clubs inspire and motivate you to work harder on improvement (with an instructor)? Is buying new clubs a cost burden or not? For example, for some people, buying clubs is a major expense, for others it is a drop in the bucket.

i tend to buy too many clubs partially because i like buying new equipment and i can afford to do so, and i get enjoyment from that part of the game.

[CarlH]

3 hours ago, MNGolfer20 said:

And he mentioned the same thing of taking some time with a professional to work on my swing, and then work with him to get the right set of clubs.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner!

[Hook DeLoft]

That attack angle with your club head speed is going to result in low shots. Another vote for lessons. 

[MNGolfer20]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I figured lessons were the right first step, but having never gotten new clubs I wasn't sure just how much 20 year old clubs might be holding me back.