Single Length vs Larger Hybrid (HB Turbos) SGI Style Irons

[Shepx13]

I've been playing for about 1.5 years and taking lessons. I am currently using an old set of Adams clubs (10+ years old style I think). My handicap is 25+ but I have made some major strides in ball striking consistency as of late. Since my swing has become much more repeatable I am going to get fit for new clubs in the next few weeks.

I was curious to hear thoughts from folks who have gamed any of the single length iron sets for a while that have also used any of the SGI larger clubs (Cleveland Launcher HBs, Cobra T-rails, etc). What did you end up sticking with and why?

I know there's at least a few of you around as I've read through multiple threads discussing some of these clubs but seen little direct comparisons between these styles.  I could care less about looks and will use whatever ends up being the best fit for me. If one of the clubs I hit during the fitting is obviously much better for my swing, that's what I will go with. But the general consensus seems to be that most people using the single length clubs don't know for sure if they are what they really feel comfortable with until they have used them long-term. And a couple-hour fitting isn't really going to get me that info.     

[Wedgie]

I switched from Cleveland HB Turbo irons to Cobra single length irons.  You really can't go wrong either way IMO. The reason I switched was just to mix things up a bit. What I have found with an 80-82 MPH iron swing speed is that I can play the Cobras from 5 down to SW. I play the single length hybrids in 3 and 4. For me the Cobras are lot more accurate and consistent from around SW-7.  I get a lot closer to the pin and a lot more birdie looks with single length irons.  With the 5 and 6 I really am hit or miss. With the Launchers they would pretty much get me close to my target all the time. Another thing to consider is the lie angles on the Cobra irons are weird and it messes with me a bit. The 5 and 6 are really upright and I struggle to get comfortable over the ball because of it.

I think my ideal set up would be Cobra or Edel single length irons from SW-7 and Turbo HBs from 4-6.  In a perfect world they would have T-Rail or HBs in single length.  If that were the case I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

[Shepx13]

1 hour ago, Wedgie said:

I switched from Cleveland HB Turbo irons to Cobra single length irons.  You really can't go wrong either way IMO. The reason I switched was just to mix things up a bit. What I have found with an 80-82 MPH iron swing speed is that I can play the Cobras from 5 down to SW. I play the single length hybrids in 3 and 4. For me the Cobras are lot more accurate and consistent from around SW-7.  I get a lot closer to the pin and a lot more birdie looks with single length irons.  With the 5 and 6 I really am hit or miss. With the Launchers they would pretty much get me close to my target all the time. Another thing to consider is the lie angles on the Cobra irons are weird and it messes with me a bit. The 5 and 6 are really upright and I struggle to get comfortable over the ball because of it.

I think my ideal set up would be Cobra or Edel single length irons from SW-7 and Turbo HBs from 4-6.  In a perfect world they would have T-Rail or HBs in single length.  If that were the case I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

Thanks for your input, Wedgie. You were one of the people I specifically hoped would chime in as I read through the entire Launcher HB thread (among others) and was surprised to see you made the change. It seemed like you were one of the HB's biggest cheerleaders, but I don't think I saw the same enthusiasm for the Cobras. (I may just not have seen the threads). 

Part of the appeal of the HB Turbo style clubs is the apparent help they provide with fat mishits, as that is where mine tend to be (more from hip movement than from a steep swing plane). But I hit my 7 and 8 irons best (too bad I lost my 7 iron recently ), so obviously the appeal of OL is there. I don't know what my iron swing speed is, but my driver is 95-100 and I don't struggle to get my iron shots in the air. It's mainly about consistency. But when I am striking my current irons well, they tend to be very straight.

Have you considered buying the Turbo's back individually and playing the 4-6? How do you like the Cobra 3 hybrid? 

[Wedgie]

I have considered the single length short irons and turbos for 4-6. Word on the street from the local Puma rep is that Cobra will be expanding their single length offerings in the future. I’m not sure what that entails but I’m kind of sitting on the sidelines until I hear more.

Here’s the thing, when you get hot with single length irons they are really hard to beat. What I mean is you will have those days when you have 10 birdie putts inside 10 feet. But, I am more consistent with the Launchers overall. That being said my handicap with the Launchers got down to 7.5ish and with single length it was down to 6.1. It might just be the new handicap system but a mixed set gives me the best chance to score and that is why I am waiting to see what Cobra comes up with next year.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[Headhammer]

@daviddvm

[Kansas King]

I really like the idea of single length irons and will certainly try them in the future. However, just be aware of the compromises. 

1) Longer length short irons may be more difficult to control depending on your feel and preference. The longer length may be harder to control as spin may be harder to control as the longer length generates more club head speed for those higher lofts. 

2) On the opposite side, the longer irons (6+) tend to be lower launching with less spin to compensate for the lack of additional speed the shorter clubs produce. This can make it difficult to hold greens from longer range. However, if the shorter length clubs provide better contact and consistency, the penalty may be worth it.

Single length designs have generally tried to compensate for the drop in long iron distance by making the lofts stronger and/or making a hotter face (eg. Sterlings). Using single length hybrids may help in the long iron department as they can have a lower COG, higher launch, and hotter face to help hold greens better. 

The comprises present in single length irons can be greatly mitigated with dual length sets or less progressive sets in terms of length. Hireko has an interesting dual length set that they sell. Just remember you can't make any set single length as the head weights will vary too much to have a properly weighted set.

Bryson DeChambeau is able to compensate for some of the compromises with sheer swing speed. His high speed swing allows him to impart enough spin on the long irons to get the ball in the air and hold greens. It's also important to remember he doesn't usually rely on long irons to hit greens as he hits his drives and shorter irons so far. 

I look forward to seeing what Cobra is able to do with single length irons because I think there is a lot of potential in the category.

[CCRyder]

Shepx13 Thanks for posting this, I am in a very similar situation and have similar interests as far as the Wilson Launch Pads v. Cobra One Length. I too struggle mostly with consistency and am very tempted by the OL. I agree with others above that one lenght in the T-Rails would seal the deal for me. Good luck with your fitting. 

[Shepx13]

2 hours ago, Kansas King said:

I really like the idea of single length irons and will certainly try them in the future. However, just be aware of the compromises. 

1) Longer length short irons may be more difficult to control depending on your feel and preference. The longer length may be harder to control as spin may be harder to control as the longer length generates more club head speed for those higher lofts. 

2) On the opposite side, the longer irons (6+) tend to be lower launching with less spin to compensate for the lack of additional speed the shorter clubs produce. This can make it difficult to hold greens from longer range. However, if the shorter length clubs provide better contact and consistency, the penalty may be worth it.

Single length designs have generally tried to compensate for the drop in long iron distance by making the lofts stronger and/or making a hotter face (eg. Sterlings). Using single length hybrids may help in the long iron department as they can have a lower COG, higher launch, and hotter face to help hold greens better. 

The comprises present in single length irons can be greatly mitigated with dual length sets or less progressive sets in terms of length. Hireko has an interesting dual length set that they sell. Just remember you can't make any set single length as the head weights will vary too much to have a properly weighted set.

Bryson DeChambeau is able to compensate for some of the compromises with sheer swing speed. His high speed swing allows him to impart enough spin on the long irons to get the ball in the air and hold greens. It's also important to remember he doesn't usually rely on long irons to hit greens as he hits his drives and shorter irons so far. 

I look forward to seeing what Cobra is able to do with single length irons because I think there is a lot of potential in the category.

 

Thanks for adding your thoughts. There's definitely a lot of variables to consider when thinking about going this route. For myself, the biggest hurdle in my game is my inconsistency, especially in my long irons. I'm generally pretty solid off the tee and from 50-150 yards out. My current old Adams set includes a 4H and 5H that I have never felt comfortable with. Even after a lot of time at the range and during lessons they have been hard for me to be even remotely consistent with. Because of that, if I'm outside 150 yards after teeing off, I'm pretty screwed.   

I had some spare time this morning before an appointment so I stopped at our local Edwin Watts. Low and behold they had 1 of last year's F-9 One Length 4H sitting there brand new with their clearance clubs. I never impulse buy. It's something I have never done. But they've got their 90 day return policy so I figured "why not" at only $150, as this would at least be a good experiment into one length clubs for me.

I made an unplanned trip to the range in the afternoon. I had not swung any clubs in 3 weeks due to a recent wrist injury so I didn't know what to expect. After warming up with a few of my other clubs, I set up with the new 4H. It felt a little weird at address with such a short shaft compared to my current Adams 4H. After a few practice cuts, I took a nice, easy 7 iron swing, and absolutely SMOKED the first one. I probably had a look of shock on my face because it was not what I was expecting. In the end, I took about 20 shots with it. With my old hybrid, I would have probably hit 3-4 good shots out of 20. With the new Cobra one length, I had about 10-12 good, playable shots with it. And another 3-4 fantastic, very straight ones. The feel at impact between the 2 clubs was astounding. Even mishits with the new Cobra felt better than a perfectly placed clubhead with the old Adams 4H. When I lined it up well, the sound and feel from it made me giddy with glee. 

Maybe I shouldn't be shocked at the outcome. I know that technology in golf has changed things dramatically over the years. But I had dismissed the idea of looking at something newer or getting fit before now because I know that I am the weakest link in my golf game. Maybe that was a mistake, even as a newer player.

So, I guess this story means that one length MAY be a solution for me throughout my bag. But it definitely means I will be at least looking to go the one length route for my 7i and lower lofted clubs unless my fitting ends up saying otherwise.                       

 

    

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shepx13

[Kansas King]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 5:21 PM, Shepx13 said:

 

Thanks for adding your thoughts. There's definitely a lot of variables to consider when thinking about going this route. For myself, the biggest hurdle in my game is my inconsistency, especially in my long irons. I'm generally pretty solid off the tee and from 50-150 yards out. My current old Adams set includes a 4H and 5H that I have never felt comfortable with. Even after a lot of time at the range and during lessons they have been hard for me to be even remotely consistent with. Because of that, if I'm outside 150 yards after teeing off, I'm pretty screwed.   

I had some spare time this morning before an appointment so I stopped at our local Edwin Watts. Low and behold they had 1 of last year's F-9 One Length 4H sitting there brand new with their clearance clubs. I never impulse buy. It's something I have never done. But they've got their 90 day return policy so I figured "why not" at only $150, as this would at least be a good experiment into one length clubs for me.

I made an unplanned trip to the range in the afternoon. I had not swung any clubs in 3 weeks due to a recent wrist injury so I didn't know what to expect. After warming up with a few of my other clubs, I set up with the new 4H. It felt a little weird at address with such a short shaft compared to my current Adams 4H. After a few practice cuts, I took a nice, easy 7 iron swing, and absolutely SMOKED the first one. I probably had a look of shock on my face because it was not what I was expecting. In the end, I took about 20 shots with it. With my old hybrid, I would have probably hit 3-4 good shots out of 20. With the new Cobra one length, I had about 10-12 good, playable shots with it. And another 3-4 fantastic, very straight ones. The feel at impact between the 2 clubs was astounding. Even mishits with the new Cobra felt better than a perfectly placed clubhead with the old Adams 4H. When I lined it up well, the sound and feel from it made me giddy with glee. 

Maybe I shouldn't be shocked at the outcome. I know that technology in golf has changed things dramatically over the years. But I had dismissed the idea of looking at something newer or getting fit before now because I know that I am the weakest link in my golf game. Maybe that was a mistake, even as a newer player.

So, I guess this story means that one length MAY be a solution for me throughout my bag. But it definitely means I will be at least looking to go the one length route for my 7i and lower lofted clubs unless my fitting ends up saying otherwise.                       

 

    

It sound like Cobra's one length clubs may be a good solution for you. Looking back at history there is another club with similar characteristics to the one length trend of today and maybe it was ahead of it's time, but that was the Perfect Club. I actually used the perfect club back in the day with relatively good success. I think the only thing holding me back from trying one length clubs is the longer short-irons, as I actually like those to be shorter. If I had it my way, my set would be a traditional progressive length set from G - 7/6, then the longer irons would be 7 or 6 iron length. Hireko sells component Pinhawk single length iron heads for $19/head and they are very tempting to try out the concept. Maybe I will build a 4-iron with the Pinhawk head at my 7-iron length and see how I get along.

[heavygolffeels]

I gamed the F8 One Lengths for a nearly a year until I fell out of favor with them. When I started with them I was an 18 handicap and moved on from them once I dropped to an 11 or so. Right now I am a 6 or 7 and continuing to trend down. I recently put them in the bag for 2 rounds with mixed results. I'm ready to give up on them for good. That being said, personally I'd go back to them over the T-Rail or Launcher. Those larger footprints just do not suit my swing. Currently playing a Srixon 585/785 set. My recommendation would be to play 6-GW and then transition into hybrids.

The Good - Initially, I loved the One Lengths. Previously, I really struggled making contact on variable length mid and long irons. They were abysmal. The OL solved that immediately. I could finally hit a 6 iron. I did feel like I could setup the same throughout the bag. My short irons flew higher and further and I started feeling like I could navigate around the golf course. 

The Bad - As your game improves, your expectations improve, and what you need from a club change. Unless you have alot of club head speed, the long irons are difficult to launch. I doubt many people would hit the 5 iron much longer than the 6 iron, and if they did its because of roll which makes it difficult to hold greens. The 5 iron is basically a punch out of the rough only club. I found full swing wedges shots to be fine, but partial shots were difficult. Much harder to flight the ball down and the spin was inconsistent. I also hit alot more fliers that were exciting at first, because you feel like you crushed one, but being 10 yards long starts to get frustrating.

At first, I dropped the GW, then dropped to 5, 6, 7 OL and then variable 8-GW, which worked well for a well. But the more my game improved the more I needed my 5 and 6 irons to have more predictable carry distances and spin numbers. Also appreciated the ability to hit the ball higher. Switching to the Srixons was a total game changer. I wish I would have gone that route from the beginning, but all in all, the One Lengths were a good part of the journey for me. 

 

 

[RollingGreens]

On 11/24/2020 at 2:15 PM, Shepx13 said:

I've been playing for about 1.5 years and taking lessons. I am currently using an old set of Adams clubs (10+ years old style I think). My handicap is 25+ but I have made some major strides in ball striking consistency as of late. Since my swing has become much more repeatable I am going to get fit for new clubs in the next few weeks.

I was curious to hear thoughts from folks who have gamed any of the single length iron sets for a while that have also used any of the SGI larger clubs (Cleveland Launcher HBs, Cobra T-rails, etc). What did you end up sticking with and why?

I know there's at least a few of you around as I've read through multiple threads discussing some of these clubs but seen little direct comparisons between these styles.  I could care less about looks and will use whatever ends up being the best fit for me. If one of the clubs I hit during the fitting is obviously much better for my swing, that's what I will go with. But the general consensus seems to be that most people using the single length clubs don't know for sure if they are what they really feel comfortable with until they have used them long-term. And a couple-hour fitting isn't really going to get me that info.     

You couldn’t be more correct. Hardest part during that fitting is imagining every club being the same length of the 7iron. Essentially you are just hitting the same club with different lofts. Pretty great actually!  It helps with consistency because you’ve taken out less variables that you need to account for. Allowing you to set up the same with a reproducible swing because you’ve created that muscle memory. 

[RollingGreens]

On 11/30/2020 at 6:01 PM, scooterhd2 said:

I gamed the F8 One Lengths for a nearly a year until I fell out of favor with them. When I started with them I was an 18 handicap and moved on from them once I dropped to an 11 or so. Right now I am a 6 or 7 and continuing to trend down. I recently put them in the bag for 2 rounds with mixed results. I'm ready to give up on them for good. That being said, personally I'd go back to them over the T-Rail or Launcher. Those larger footprints just do not suit my swing. Currently playing a Srixon 585/785 set. My recommendation would be to play 6-GW and then transition into hybrids.

The Good - Initially, I loved the One Lengths. Previously, I really struggled making contact on variable length mid and long irons. They were abysmal. The OL solved that immediately. I could finally hit a 6 iron. I did feel like I could setup the same throughout the bag. My short irons flew higher and further and I started feeling like I could navigate around the golf course. 

The Bad - As your game improves, your expectations improve, and what you need from a club change. Unless you have alot of club head speed, the long irons are difficult to launch. I doubt many people would hit the 5 iron much longer than the 6 iron, and if they did its because of roll which makes it difficult to hold greens. The 5 iron is basically a punch out of the rough only club. I found full swing wedges shots to be fine, but partial shots were difficult. Much harder to flight the ball down and the spin was inconsistent. I also hit alot more fliers that were exciting at first, because you feel like you crushed one, but being 10 yards long starts to get frustrating.

At first, I dropped the GW, then dropped to 5, 6, 7 OL and then variable 8-GW, which worked well for a well. But the more my game improved the more I needed my 5 and 6 irons to have more predictable carry distances and spin numbers. Also appreciated the ability to hit the ball higher. Switching to the Srixons was a total game changer. I wish I would have gone that route from the beginning, but all in all, the One Lengths were a good part of the journey for me. 

 

 

Their is something to be said for buying a set of irons that you can continue to grow into because of your revolving game vs the set that is “right” for you at that time. 

[Nolan220]

I played single lengths irons 5-GW only for a year got them fitted, I like them, the 9-GW is strange at first but I got used to them rather quickly and it was a confidence booster to know that once you had your ball position you pretty much was in the area of where you need to set up. I also used to move the ball back or forth depending on the shot I wanted but I knew that there really wasn’t any set up change from 5-GW so made the game a little simpler in that aspect. I recently went back to traditional lengths do the just mixing things up .. but I have nothing bad to say about one lengths and will prob go back with them at some point if I don’t sell them. 

[NC Golfer]

HB Turbos are a no brainer. You can even get them with recoil shafts. 

[russtopherb]

This is something that's been on my mind a lot. Wedge graciously let me try one of his Cobra single length sets and while I loved the shorter irons and wedges, the "longer" irons didn't work so well. It's very likely that I could have gotten a lot more out of them if it wasn't the end of the season for me when I sent them back. 

I had tried out the Altitudes probably 6 years ago at this point, I didn't get along with them so great BUT that was maybe 2 years max into my golfing journey, before I got some lessons. Things are a lot different now and the HB Turbos, Launchpads, etc. have been getting a lot of consideration as I think about next season. I actually was thinking about pulling the trigger on some HiBores locally for $100 but they were steel shafted and I much prefer graphite due to my elbow.

[cachecropp]

On 11/25/2020 at 6:21 PM, Shepx13 said:

 

Thanks for adding your thoughts. There's definitely a lot of variables to consider when thinking about going this route. For myself, the biggest hurdle in my game is my inconsistency, especially in my long irons. I'm generally pretty solid off the tee and from 50-150 yards out. My current old Adams set includes a 4H and 5H that I have never felt comfortable with. Even after a lot of time at the range and during lessons they have been hard for me to be even remotely consistent with. Because of that, if I'm outside 150 yards after teeing off, I'm pretty screwed.   

I had some spare time this morning before an appointment so I stopped at our local Edwin Watts. Low and behold they had 1 of last year's F-9 One Length 4H sitting there brand new with their clearance clubs. I never impulse buy. It's something I have never done. But they've got their 90 day return policy so I figured "why not" at only $150, as this would at least be a good experiment into one length clubs for me.

I made an unplanned trip to the range in the afternoon. I had not swung any clubs in 3 weeks due to a recent wrist injury so I didn't know what to expect. After warming up with a few of my other clubs, I set up with the new 4H. It felt a little weird at address with such a short shaft compared to my current Adams 4H. After a few practice cuts, I took a nice, easy 7 iron swing, and absolutely SMOKED the first one. I probably had a look of shock on my face because it was not what I was expecting. In the end, I took about 20 shots with it. With my old hybrid, I would have probably hit 3-4 good shots out of 20. With the new Cobra one length, I had about 10-12 good, playable shots with it. And another 3-4 fantastic, very straight ones. The feel at impact between the 2 clubs was astounding. Even mishits with the new Cobra felt better than a perfectly placed clubhead with the old Adams 4H. When I lined it up well, the sound and feel from it made me giddy with glee. 

Maybe I shouldn't be shocked at the outcome. I know that technology in golf has changed things dramatically over the years. But I had dismissed the idea of looking at something newer or getting fit before now because I know that I am the weakest link in my golf game. Maybe that was a mistake, even as a newer player.

So, I guess this story means that one length MAY be a solution for me throughout my bag. But it definitely means I will be at least looking to go the one length route for my 7i and lower lofted clubs unless my fitting ends up saying otherwise.                       

 

    

I have a F8 One Length 19 deg hybrid and a F9 full length 19 deg hybrid.  I also use the F8 a lot as a trouble/utility club.  It’s great for escaping bad lies, deep rough or shots from under trees.

FWIW, My launch monitor numbers compare favorably between the two clubs because they both launch at about 17 deg for me.  I swing The F8 One at about 85 mph and it carries 170-175, goes about 85 ft high and spins about 4,000 RPM.  My F9 swinging about 90 mph carries 190-195, goes about 95 ft high and spins about 3,500 RPM.  
 

Edited January 31, 2021 by cachecropp

[Foxdogg13]

On 11/24/2020 at 4:35 PM, Wedgie said:

I switched from Cleveland HB Turbo irons to Cobra single length irons.  You really can't go wrong either way IMO. The reason I switched was just to mix things up a bit. What I have found with an 80-82 MPH iron swing speed is that I can play the Cobras from 5 down to SW. I play the single length hybrids in 3 and 4. For me the Cobras are lot more accurate and consistent from around SW-7.  I get a lot closer to the pin and a lot more birdie looks with single length irons.  With the 5 and 6 I really am hit or miss. With the Launchers they would pretty much get me close to my target all the time. Another thing to consider is the lie angles on the Cobra irons are weird and it messes with me a bit. The 5 and 6 are really upright and I struggle to get comfortable over the ball because of it.

I think my ideal set up would be Cobra or Edel single length irons from SW-7 and Turbo HBs from 4-6.  In a perfect world they would have T-Rail or HBs in single length.  If that were the case I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

You ever think of making your own DIY one length  with the HB's. I played one length before and regret selling them. I picked up a set of HB's recently and found that gripping down on the longer clubs was really good so it got me thinking  of cutting down 4-6 to a 7 iron length and leave short clubs alone. I know people speak of weight issues with cutting down irons but if Cobra can make one length hybrids would the HB's be similar?  Any thoughts?

 

On 11/24/2020 at 4:35 PM, Wedgie said:

I switched from Cleveland HB Turbo irons to Cobra single length irons.  You really can't go wrong either way IMO. The reason I switched was just to mix things up a bit. What I have found with an 80-82 MPH iron swing speed is that I can play the Cobras from 5 down to SW. I play the single length hybrids in 3 and 4. For me the Cobras are lot more accurate and consistent from around SW-7.  I get a lot closer to the pin and a lot more birdie looks with single length irons.  With the 5 and 6 I really am hit or miss. With the Launchers they would pretty much get me close to my target all the time. Another thing to consider is the lie angles on the Cobra irons are weird and it messes with me a bit. The 5 and 6 are really upright and I struggle to get comfortable over the ball because of it.

I think my ideal set up would be Cobra or Edel single length irons from SW-7 and Turbo HBs from 4-6.  In a perfect world they would have T-Rail or HBs in single length.  If that were the case I'd buy them in a heartbeat.