The Shaft

[sub80]

This is one I don't know how to figure out.  I'm 64, in pretty good shape, probably significantly stronger than most my age.  But still, 64.  Coming back to the game after a long hiatus.   I never knew what my swing speed was, but I played stiff shafts in all of my clubs.  Got fitted by a really good fitter--no surprise recommended regular shafts in everything, lighter driver shafts to pick up speed.  Had my driver speed at 89-95.  So ordered the Ping 410 plus, Ping tour shaft, regular.  OF course, everything Ping takes forever.  Started playing with what I had in the garage--a old (2006) Callaway x460 tour, with the old purple and gold proforce, 77 gram shaft, 2.1 torque, 7.0 mid shaft stiffness--which I think is pretty stiff.  A little rough beginning, but stuck with it because...no other choice.  The last three rounds?  Averaging 10-14 fairways, distance 230-260, even the misses are really playable. Hit mostly a baby draw, once in a while a little push.  Probably carrying anywhere from 215-240, depending.  What the heck is going on--I feel like I can't miss with this club, and am now wondering if I should be getting an equivalent shaft (V2 proforce?) instead of the Ping shaft.  I can see how a heavier, stiffer shaft might be more accurate--but this gets really good distance (for me) as well.   Any help or advice appreciated!

[Kenny B]

Welcome back to golf!!  I'm not sure you need help or advice.  Yes, a stiffer shaft will tend to be more accurate at the cost of distance if the swing speed is low.  The ProForce has always been a great shaft IMO, so I'm not surprised that you are hitting that club well.  

You don't say what your numbers were at your fitting with the Ping.  If your fitter is good, I'm sure he analyzed your swing and determined the best shaft for your swing.  Regular flex sounds about right for your ss.  So, when your Ping arrives, I would expect you will be getting more distance with maybe a little more dispersion.  However, the 410 Plus is quite accurate so maybe the same dispersion..  I wouldn't worry about it until then.  If you don't get more distance, then go back to the fitter, and take your Callaway with you.

[sub80]

Thanks Kenny B--the numbers were about the same with the Ping in terms of distance.  However, I made a grip change, on the advice of the fitter and my pro--to what I think of is a really neutral grip, and clubhead speed, accuracy and distance all jumped.  To be fair, I had not made the change when I was testing the Ping.  So, we will see.  I had been under the impression I wouldn't be able to swing a stiff that stiff at all, and I would would leaking everything right.  Not the case at all.  Thanks!

[cnosil]

Thanks Kenny B--the numbers were about the same with the Ping in terms of distance. 

Based on this statement I am assuming you tested both during your fitting. If the numbers were similar why did you decide to change? How were you shots at the beginning of the session compared to the end; were you getting tired? Lighter would help prevent fatigue.

[fixyurdivot]

Older clubs always start performing well when they hear a replacement is coming.  It will be interesting to hear how the G410P performs when you get it.  Definitely take it and your Callaway back if the numbers and/or ball flight isn't as good or better.  You may be like many that sit on the bubble between a R and S flex.  First off we know their is no industry standard, so a S in this shaft may be closer to an R in that shaft, and vice-versa. Also, some drivers and FW woods just seem to work better depending on the player; particularly if their SS is borderline to the conventional decision point.  I think you'll love the PING, but then I'm a little biased.

[Kenny B]

13 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Based on this statement I am assuming you tested both during your fitting. If the numbers were similar why did you decide to change? How were you shots at the beginning of the session compared to the end; were you getting tired? Lighter would help prevent fatigue.

Based on @sub80 response, I understand that he made the grip change after the fitting.  So, it's possible that his ss numbers may now be higher than during the fitting.  It's also possible that the Proforce stiff shaft of 2006 is comparable to the Ping regular of today... never know!

[revkev]

You've already gotten great answers so there's not a lot to add beyond emphasizing that there are no industry standards for shafts and Callaway has historically sold distance so who knows what that shaft would actually measure out at - or the actual loft on the driver for that matter.  It's from a time when more loft than marked and weaker shaft than advertised was common place.

I'm also 64, those are great distances for someone our age - how are your course conditions?  That could be a part of it too - I know that when I lived up North courses could dry out and lead to some longer than normal driving if you were hitting lower draws (my preferred shot shape prior to moving to Florida.)  

 

Good luck and let us know how the Pings work out.

[sub80]

Thanks for all the help!  Some answers:

1. At the time of the fitting I was playing a cobra speedback driver -the Ping was intended as an upgrade to that.   That was the comparison at the fitter, not the old Callaway.  I sold the Cobra to buy the Ping, then pulled the Callaway out of the "Garage Reservoir" where it had been since @2010 because it had no real sale value. 

2. The head in the Callaway is the x460--which came out 2006.  The shaft was an aftermarket UST Proforce--really stiff shaft--the specs were 77 grams. 2.1 torque, 7 mid shaft stiffness.  A very different shaft than the Ping, from what I can tell.

3. So--I will report back, but, I would expect the Ping head to be a great deal better than a 14 plus year old Callaway that was a "bore through"--no adjustability at all.  then the question becomes the shaft.  I will bring the Callaway and we will compare head to head.  I was convinced that at 64, the old proforce was way more shaft than I should try to swing--but apparently not.  I wasn't tired when I was at the fitter--but it could be the grip change.

4. My concern was that a.) I might have just spent more money than I needed to on a new driver--but I can't screw the club fitter over, and cancel. 2) might have ordered the wrong shaft. 

5. However, we will see, if I am lucky--and the head is really that much better, and the shaft, I hope to see increased distance and KEEP the accuracy.

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

First off we know their is no industry standard, so a S in this shaft may be closer to an R in that shaft, and vice-versa.

You are referring to the the EI profile of a shaft which has much more to do with how a player responds to the shaft and how it performs than “flex”. Flex can vary between different lines from The same company. 

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You are referring to the the EI profile of a shaft which has much more to do with how a player responds to the shaft and how it performs than “flex”. Flex can vary between different lines from The same company. 

True, but there is still no commonly agreed to standard... maybe not even a loosely agreed to one .  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

True, but there is still no commonly agreed to standard... maybe not even a loosely agreed to one .  

For flex you are correct. Torque isn’t measured the same across the various companies. Look at PX website at the Hzrdus line and look at titleist website and you will see different specs because titleist measures differently than PX does.

Its why getting fit for a shaft imo is important 

[sub80]

10 hours ago, revkev said:

You've already gotten great answers so there's not a lot to add beyond emphasizing that there are no industry standards for shafts and Callaway has historically sold distance so who knows what that shaft would actually measure out at - or the actual loft on the driver for that matter.  It's from a time when more loft than marked and weaker shaft than advertised was common place.

I'm also 64, those are great distances for someone our age - how are your course conditions?  That could be a part of it too - I know that when I lived up North courses could dry out and lead to some longer than normal driving if you were hitting lower draws (my preferred shot shape prior to moving to Florida.)  

 

Good luck and let us know how the Pings work out.

Kev--thanks for the compliment--the courses were wettish, and cold.  I think pretty normal carry and roll out.  I hit a high draw or sometimes a push.  Struggle to keep that from hooking.  I play mostly with my son in law, who is 27.  Just started playing like a year ago.  His swing speed with zero (0) lessons is 115 and he can hit his driver 310 carry, a 5 iron 210.  So--I am struggling to keep up, distance wise, and that's what I compare myself to.  I don't think I have 115 in me, but I think I can get to 100.  It's good to have goals, and keeping ahead of your son-in law--or at least in touch is a good one!