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"Players distance" Irons


allshanks

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Got fitted recently and the JPX 921 forged with Project X chrome 6.0 shafts were the winner.  Current irons are 690.CBs that I purchased new and have probably over 500 rounds with.  After the fitting I did more research on the JPX 921s and I guess they're in the "players distance" category, which I didn't even know was a thing.  My previous understand of game improvement type irons is that the major downside, other than aesthetics, is less control on distance (not just workability).  Is this likely to be a problem with the JPX 921s?  Also, if game improvement irons are supposed to make your misses less-bad, why would there be such a big issue with distance control compared to a players iron (i.e. shouldn't a pure strike and a miss-hit have more similar results compared to the same situation with a blade)?  

 

Thanks for any input.

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32 minutes ago, allshanks said:

Got fitted recently and the JPX 921 forged with Project X chrome 6.0 shafts were the winner.  Current irons are 690.CBs that I purchased new and have probably over 500 rounds with.  After the fitting I did more research on the JPX 921s and I guess they're in the "players distance" category, which I didn't even know was a thing.  My previous understand of game improvement type irons is that the major downside, other than aesthetics, is less control on distance (not just workability).  Is this likely to be a problem with the JPX 921s?  Also, if game improvement irons are supposed to make your misses less-bad, why would there be such a big issue with distance control compared to a players iron (i.e. shouldn't a pure strike and a miss-hit have more similar results compared to the same situation with a blade)?  

 

Thanks for any input.

To answer your questions. Likely not a problem with the forged. Players distance give you a little extra forgiveness with a slightly hotter face. Some OEMs are better than others in terms of face uniformity, Mizuno is one of the best in terms of this.

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, allshanks said:

Got fitted recently and the JPX 921 forged with Project X chrome 6.0 shafts were the winner.  Current irons are 690.CBs that I purchased new and have probably over 500 rounds with.  After the fitting I did more research on the JPX 921s and I guess they're in the "players distance" category, which I didn't even know was a thing.  My previous understand of game improvement type irons is that the major downside, other than aesthetics, is less control on distance (not just workability).  Is this likely to be a problem with the JPX 921s?  Also, if game improvement irons are supposed to make your misses less-bad, why would there be such a big issue with distance control compared to a players iron (i.e. shouldn't a pure strike and a miss-hit have more similar results compared to the same situation with a blade)?  

 

Thanks for any input.

Category names mean nothing. Players distance is a large hard with a visual look of a players type club.

saying something is the best in a category is general, because another brand might work better for someone. I500, p790, Pxg 0311p, the mizunos, titleist t100-s all fall into that category.

Theres feedback from those who have experienced fliers with certain players distance clubs while others haven’t experienced that at all. Many times the flier comes from someone who doesn’t consistently compress the ball properly and hits more off center shots and then they catch one the right way and it goes further. There’s high and low handicap players with them including fast and slow singers and plenty of the faster swinging low caps have had no issues with fliers.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, rbsiedsc said:

To answer your questions. Likely not a problem with the forged. Players distance give you a little extra forgiveness with a slightly hotter face. Some OEMs are better than others in terms of face uniformity, Mizuno is one of the best in terms of this.

Awesome thanks a lot!

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Category names mean nothing. Players distance is a large hard with a visual look of a players type club.

saying something is the best in a category is general, because another brand might work better for someone. I500, p790, Pxg 0311p, the mizunos, titleist t100-s all fall into that category.

Theres feedback from those who have experienced fliers with certain players distance clubs while others haven’t experienced that at all. Many times the flier comes from someone who doesn’t consistently compress the ball properly and hits more off center shots and then they catch one the right way and it goes further. There’s high and low handicap players with them including fast and slow singers and plenty of the faster swinging low caps have had no issues with fliers.

Great thanks for the info!  It makes sense to me to get fitted for clubs, but also I'm not sure I trust the fitting for irons from just hitting a dozen or so balls with a 6 iron.  Going to buy the recommended clubs and see how it goes with the rest of the irons in the set I guess.

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Just now, allshanks said:

Awesome thanks a lot!

Great thanks for the info!  It makes sense to me to get fitted for clubs, but also I'm not sure I trust the fitting for irons from just hitting a dozen or so balls with a 6 iron.  Going to buy the recommended clubs and see how it goes with the rest of the irons in the set I guess.

I do recommend going in for a follow-up to make sure your club gapping is set up properly. I didn't have the time to do that with my new set but will likely next year. Best of luck and enjoy!

Follow my journey to enjoying golf and going low

Driver: :callaway-small:   Epic Max LS :Fuji:Ventus Black 6x 44.5" 

3wHL: :callaway-small: Rogue ST LS 75x  Tensei AV Blue w/ xlink

7w: :callaway-small:Apex UW 21* MMT 80S

DI: Caley 01X 18* with KBS PGH Stiff plus 95g

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 3/4" long, Soft stepped, MOI matched

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore 

Putter: L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 69*/35" in blue 

 

Ball:  TBD

Shot Tracking: :ShotScope:

Bag: Vessel VLX 2.0

Grip: Lamkin Sonar +  Midsize 

My Reviews:

Caley 01X Driving Iron Review 2023

Max Swing Speed Training and Speed Progress: Current Speed 120 in the MGS Speed Challenge (updated 3/15/23)

 :1332069271_TommyArmour:TAIII #2  Review here: TAIII Impact #2 Putter )

 :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)

th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  2019 Unofficial Review

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, allshanks said:

Awesome thanks a lot!

Great thanks for the info!  It makes sense to me to get fitted for clubs, but also I'm not sure I trust the fitting for irons from just hitting a dozen or so balls with a 6 iron.  Going to buy the recommended clubs and see how it goes with the rest of the irons in the set I guess.

Unfortunately very few places have a full set to fit to. The 6 or 7 iron is used and in my experience very few times does someone have issues with the full set they order that aren’t related to the manufactures build tolerances, some companies are going to be better than at others at being close to on spec thru the set and others won’t be. Callaway iirc has. 2-3* tolerance on loft and lie, others are in the 1-2*. Swing weight for some can be off as well but from what I’ve seen that’s not the rule

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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28 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Unfortunately very few places have a full set to fit to. The 6 or 7 iron is used and in my experience very few times does someone have issues with the full set they order that aren’t related to the manufactures build tolerances, some companies are going to be better than at others at being close to on spec thru the set and others won’t be. Callaway iirc has. 2-3* tolerance on loft and lie, others are in the 1-2*. Swing weight for some can be off as well but from what I’ve seen that’s not the rule

I searched multiple locations and couldn’t find any that would do a full iron fitting. Only able to test out 6 or 7 iron like you said. Only thing I can say is that the timing on custom builds are closer to 4-6 weeks currently. I have read a few complaints on another forum about some poor quality control. But overall all mizuno orders have been positive for the 921 line from what I’ve read 

:taylormade-small: Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

:titleist-small: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Titleist ProV1

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie

:callaway-small: 300 PRO Rangefinder

Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review

Official Stewart Q Follow Review

 

 

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2 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

I searched multiple locations and couldn’t find any that would do a full iron fitting. Only able to test out 6 or 7 iron like you said. Only thing I can say is that the timing on custom builds are closer to 4-6 weeks currently. I have read a few complaints on another forum about some poor quality control. But overall all mizuno orders have been positive for the 921 line from what I’ve read 

Build times for pretty much every brand right now are running extra long. Pings is at 14 weeks. There’s a supply chain issue with almost every component on a club. 
 

There’s definitely some bad builds out there from brands most wouldn’t expect it from. The best thing to do regardless is have a local shop check the specs when you get them

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Build times for pretty much every brand right now are running extra long. Pings is at 14 weeks. There’s a supply chain issue with almost every component on a club. 
 

There’s definitely some bad builds out there from brands most wouldn’t expect it from. The best thing to do regardless is have a local shop check the specs when you get them

Couldn’t have said it any better

:taylormade-small: Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 13deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

:titleist-small: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Titleist ProV1

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie

:callaway-small: 300 PRO Rangefinder

Official Nippon Regio B+ Driver Shaft Review

Official Stewart Q Follow Review

 

 

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23 hours ago, allshanks said:

Got fitted recently and the JPX 921 forged with Project X chrome 6.0 shafts were the winner.  Current irons are 690.CBs that I purchased new and have probably over 500 rounds with.  After the fitting I did more research on the JPX 921s and I guess they're in the "players distance" category, which I didn't even know was a thing.  My previous understand of game improvement type irons is that the major downside, other than aesthetics, is less control on distance (not just workability).  Is this likely to be a problem with the JPX 921s?  Also, if game improvement irons are supposed to make your misses less-bad, why would there be such a big issue with distance control compared to a players iron (i.e. shouldn't a pure strike and a miss-hit have more similar results compared to the same situation with a blade)?  

 

Thanks for any input.

The "players distance" category is essentially an amalgamation of what people have said they want and what marketing departments want which is distance plus better looks. As others above have said, players distance are essentially a GI club shoved into a "players"-esque looking profile. They are longer distance because they use stronger lofts, have a hotter face (higher COR/CT), and some are designed for lower spin. They then fill the hollow-body irons with "gooo" to support the face and make them sound better.

If you have been playing 690CBs for a long-time then you will probably find some added forgiveness with the 921s. I think the issue with distance control is that some of the designs are just don't spin enough for some people resulting in many flyer type shots that carry an extra 10 yards. This is more likely a result of poor fittings than anything but it is noteworthy. Hot VFT iron faces have been around for quite a while now and they aren't bad at all. I think the future of golf for everyone, including the pros, is VFT faces of some sort. This will essentially eliminate the traditional forged club of the past but there really isn't any reason why someone shouldn't go after the added forgiveness related to mishit distance, even the pros.

I think some of the other grumblings related to "players distance" irons and the hollow-body designs is that some of them simply have bad designs or are manufactured poorly. Some of the hollow body designs like the Ping i500 have really high COGs that make them difficult to hit solid. Hollow-body iron designs are tougher to manufacture and design because the thicker topline and back plate to make it hollow all add weight up high and pull up the COG. Plus, filling them with "goo" can can also raise the COG as the weight of that substance isn't as low as possible in the clubhead. Full hollow-bodies like the P790 offer some benefits but I think we will see manufacturers thin out the top half of irons in the future and pull the hollow cavity lower to bring about better playing characteristics by lowering the COG. You can see this on clubs like the Maltby TS1/TS2s, Mizuno HMBs, and a few others.

I think the JPX 921 line from Mizuno is really good. I am also a really big fan with what Titleist is doing with the T-series. I'll be curious to see what the Maltby club testing shows for the new models introduced this year. On the whole, it seems clubs have become better and I'll be curious to see if the new designs have drifted towards Maltby's design philosophy of lower COGs. The real outlier in the golf world to Maltby's design philosophy is Wilson, as many of their more recent designs have very high COGs including their MGS winning D7s. 

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