Sticker Shock

[fixyurdivot 17,601]

5 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I've got a solution that gets you the 8.3 yards and saves you $1500......

Check the yardage for the shot & hit one more club than you do now !!!   

...says the guy with an aftermarket Accra in his driver and reshafted his irons with Proj X LZ's....    

If you can do your own shafting work you can save big bucks on that $1500, then resell the shafts you took out to make back a little more $.  If they started putting adapters on iron shafts I'd be divorced probably.   

Yea, no kidding.  All joking aside, I'm finding myself with a frustrating bad case of "the shorties" of late.  I think I'm stuck in the transition of a declining swing speed and my default habit of grabbing club X for distance Y.  The no (monetary) cost trade-off, however, is the higher dispersion likelihood that comes with the lower lofted iron.

I'm kind of surprised the modular plug & play shaft to head system for irons isn't already the standard.  That would be so cool!!

[Shapotomous 5,059]

Some loss of yardage possibilities .... lower swing speed, less flexibility, face impact, lie angle, club length, balance during swing, spine angle at impact, clubhead release point, swing path line through impact, scooping or compressing, etc, etc, etc,   I think I have lived through all of these and then some!

I regained some yardage last season I had gradually lost over the years by increasing my flexibility and core strength which translated to higher swing speed as well as picking up a new to me driver / irons shafts combos.  Jacked iron lofts in the JPX900's compared to the 1990 era tour cavity irons also helped!  In my case the shaft changes I did was more about narrowing the shot dispersion rather than additional yardage.

Getting the irons bent to the proper lie angle helped me hit the sweet spot rather than my quite often toe miss which deducted yards.  

There are a lot of things you can address to gain distance back in addition to new shafts.

 

[silver & black 6,421]

10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yea, no kidding.  All joking aside, I'm finding myself with a frustrating bad case of "the shorties" of late.  I think I'm stuck in the transition of a declining swing speed and my default habit of grabbing club X for distance Y

I can so relate to this! 

This year has been all about what you described, for me. I couldn't hit anything the distance I was used to. I have two bad shoulders, a suspect back and an unusual weakening in my legs. All this combined with turning 61, and I'm left trying to figure out what to do come next season. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by silver & black

[Kenny B 33,578]

12 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yea, no kidding.  All joking aside, I'm finding myself with a frustrating bad case of "the shorties" of late.  I think I'm stuck in the transition of a declining swing speed and my default habit of grabbing club X for distance Y.  The no (monetary) cost trade-off, however, is the higher dispersion likelihood that comes with the lower lofted iron.

I'm kind of surprised the modular plug & play shaft to head system for irons isn't already the standard.  That would be so cool!!

When you get to be my age, you'll hit the ball as far as I do.  

Better get it figured out before MGS PNW 2021.

[Buffly 563]

It might be worth just keeping the current shafts and getting them PURED to lower the dispersion at about $20 per club plus any head removal and reassembly. 

[jlukes 16,505]

7 hours ago, Buffly said:

It might be worth just keeping the current shafts and getting them PURED to lower the dispersion at about $20 per club plus any head removal and reassembly. 

Nope.

Multiple tests from respected people in the industry like Dr Sasha Mackenzie and most recently TXG show that shaft PUREing provides no benefit. 
 

if you want to spend your money and hope placebo effect helps you then go for it, but there is no point spending money on this hoping it will fix dispersion isssues

[Shankster 33,093]

I would go somewhere else.  $1500 could get you an entire new new of ironic with a shaft that does nearly the same thing.  I might be missing something but I would not pay $1500 for 8.6 yards or 30... ok maybe 30. But not a centimeter less.

[Nolan220 1,973]

1 hour ago, jlukes said:

Nope.

Multiple tests from respected people in the industry like Dr Sasha Mackenzie and most recently TXG show that shaft PUREing provides no benefit. 
 

if you want to spend your money and hope placebo effect helps you then go for it, but there is no point spending money on this hoping it will fix dispersion isssues

My fitter told me this too as I am not as knowledgeable on pure-ing shafts ... he said if I was pro or trying to make a pro tour then it might be worth it .. I was glad he was truthful and didn’t try to up sell me 

[fixyurdivot 17,601]

I guess the good news is that my G410's are, short of testing more irons (that sounds fun), an optimum match for me.  Now I'm thinking of picking up another G410 6i or 7i and re-shaft it with the Accra ICWT or the closest, lower cost option.  So the bad news is that, while I'm brand agnostic, I'm not looks/appearance agnostic.  I really do not like glossy black shafts... and wouldn't you know it that the matte black finish on the Accra's is only on stiff shafts .

Yea, I know, it should be ALL ABOUT performance and to heck with appearance... but that's my plight.  I've been researching the Accra ICWT in hopes of finding some information as to how they compare to other composite shafts - offering matte finish and maybe less expensive. Thus far, some say they fall between the Recoil Prototype and Steelfiber i80.  They were the stiffest of the iron shafts I tested (294 cpm) but not by a whole lot.  Obviously that measurement is only a part of the shafts characteristic.

Suggestions?

[Shapotomous 5,059]

4 hours ago, jlukes said:

Nope.

Multiple tests from respected people in the industry like Dr Sasha Mackenzie and most recently TXG show that shaft PUREing provides no benefit. 
 

if you want to spend your money and hope placebo effect helps you then go for it, but there is no point spending money on this hoping it will fix dispersion isssues

I think it should be noted the TXG testing was done with high end $$ Accra shafts and it was mentioned by Ian he would have been very disappointed in their overall shaft quality control if there WAS a difference between the pure'd and non pure'd shaft.  I was surprised to hear during their back & forth discussion they even offer puring in their club builds since there isn't any real benefit. 

I fully agree that with current manufacturing technology there probably isn't any benefit to puring.  Maybe if you get a real cheapo shaft you might see some difference if that shaft happens to be at the far end of their sketchy manufacturing tolerance or if the QC guy had a bad night but that would be really rare.  But then again why not pay for the better quality shaft instead of paying the puring money when in all probability it won't need it?

I can say from an experience about 25 - 30 years ago it did have an effect for a 6 iron shaft of mine.  But that was the early, early days of graphite and it was only 1 shaft of about 3 sets worth that I messed around with that i saw a need to check it or saw a change from doing it.  I pulled those graphites and went back to steel on those clubs many years ago.  I think I still have that shaft, if anybody want to drop a head on it and play around with different orientations I'll look for it!  

[Shapotomous 5,059]

11 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I guess the good news is that my G410's are, short of testing more irons (that sounds fun), an optimum match for me.  Now I'm thinking of picking up another G410 6i or 7i and re-shaft it with the Accra ICWT or the closest, lower cost option.  So the bad news is that, while I'm brand agnostic, I'm not looks/appearance agnostic.  I really do not like glossy black shafts... and wouldn't you know it that the matte black finish on the Accra's is only on stiff shafts .

Yea, I know, it should be ALL ABOUT performance and to heck with appearance... but that's my plight.  I've been researching the Accra ICWT in hopes of finding some information as to how they compare to other composite shafts - offering matte finish and maybe less expensive. Thus far, some say they fall between the Recoil Prototype and Steelfiber i80.  They were the stiffest of the iron shafts I tested (294 cpm) but not by a whole lot.  Obviously that measurement is only a part of the shafts characteristic.

Suggestions?

I like your 7i idea with a couple or 5 shafts!  Maybe even double your fun and try your 2nd place 7i model with those shafts as well!  

[jlukes 16,505]

On 12/17/2020 at 3:47 PM, fixyurdivot said:

So the result of my bag fitting yesterday is to re-shaft my G410's (4-UW) with ACCRA ICWT for; +0.1 mph BS, +3.2 mph CHS, +8.3 yards carry, - 3.3 yards dispersion, and -360 rpm spin for $1535.00?  

None of the other club head or shaft combinations (steel and composite) outperformed the Nippon AWT 2.0/G410 I'm bagging... except the ACCRA.  I've never heard of them or Drago; the shaft that was in second place of the composite options.

So I just dropped the news on my wife and she said "just for the shafts?" .  I've taken all the performance gains above and cranked them into a half dozen new math formulas to see if makes sense... so far it doesn't.  I'm curious for those who have opted to choose the aftermarket shaft route, what magnitude in performance gains you had?  +8.3 yards isn't peanuts but $192/club installed isn't either.

Lastly, to those on the forum who are composite shaft specialists, do any lower price, OEM upgrade shafts come to mind that might be very close to the ACCRA ICWT?

It rarely, if ever makes economical sense to restart irons unless you can buy the shafts used and restart yourself. Otherwise it’s just not worth it. Now your performance gains with those accras are pretty awesome. Almost gain a full club of carry. 
 

if I were you I’d wait for the 425 irons, see if they perform the same with the Accra’s and order them new with the Accra’s and sell your g410s. You’ll net out in better shape than if you just reshafted your current sticks. 
 

It’s up to you to say if the performance is worth the cost, but it’s almost never worth it to have old irons reshafted

[fixyurdivot 17,601]

So today I had a little extra time before our round and visited the PING kiosk at the pro shop.  They had a 7i G410 green dot and I tested it with a Recoil 780 F3.  I hit it and my 7i and, while I did not have my Swing Caddie with me, ball flight, dispersion, and yardage looked very similar.  My fitter never pulled Recoils for test.  I plan to go back and test them again with my LM but they sure felt good and I like both the matte black and especially the "ion plated" finish...those are cool looking!  These look to be in the $40/shaft range but we'll see about distance.  Even comparable distance and dispersion might be fine for the savings on my joints.

But then @jlukesgoes and throws a wrench in the works with the "wait for the G425's" option.... good God this club ho stuff is a perilous road. 

[Manimal26 609]

21 hours ago, Buffly said:

It might be worth just keeping the current shafts and getting them PURED to lower the dispersion at about $20 per club plus any head removal and reassembly. 

Who do you know that only charges $20 for sst pure shafts... better yet $20 on a retro pure...

[Manimal26 609]

@fixyurdivot @dlow206 y’all tag anyone else but here comes a long post... I am coming in hot!!! 

[Onestoptech 42]

On 12/17/2020 at 12:47 PM, fixyurdivot said:

So the result of my bag fitting yesterday is to re-shaft my G410's (4-UW) with ACCRA ICWT for; +0.1 mph BS, +3.2 mph CHS, +8.3 yards carry, - 3.3 yards dispersion, and -360 rpm spin for $1535.00?  

None of the other club head or shaft combinations (steel and composite) outperformed the Nippon AWT 2.0/G410 I'm bagging... except the ACCRA.  I've never heard of them or Drago; the shaft that was in second place of the composite options.

So I just dropped the news on my wife and she said "just for the shafts?" .  I've taken all the performance gains above and cranked them into a half dozen new math formulas to see if makes sense... so far it doesn't.  I'm curious for those who have opted to choose the aftermarket shaft route, what magnitude in performance gains you had?  +8.3 yards isn't peanuts but $192/club installed isn't either.

Lastly, to those on the forum who are composite shaft specialists, do any lower price, OEM upgrade shafts come to mind that might be very close to the ACCRA ICWT?

Accra only sells to fitters/builders. They are very high quality products. What was the labor cost on the install? I thought I was going composite in my new irons but my fitter felt I could shill hit steel with the nippon modus tour 105 in Flat black. The 105 was an extraordinary light steel shaft that came in at a reasonable $85 per shaft. I also hit blades the best that wasn't even in my thoughts when I went in. Got 6 through pw with nippon shafts for $550. I'm very happy with them.

[Manimal26 609]

32 minutes ago, Onestoptech said:

Accra only sells to fitters/builders. They are very high quality products.

@Onestoptech ... this is only kind of correct... Accra does only sell to a custom fitter. But when they started they only sold to fitters who held custom component or as the Mizuno loyalist out there will say the head only accounts... this allowed the cost of their products to be offset by the reduced cost of club components. However as the use of Accra shafts started to grow on tour and demand grew they started to sell to “only custom fitters” which requires only one head only account not them all... that coupled with the rise of OEM’s realizing they could make more money by selling directly to the customer or having the custom fitter simply order it from them gave birth to companies that use the guise of fitting to take advantage of people...

Accra does not make any actual product (tech now they might because of being owned by true sports) they source to a foundry who makes it to their specifications and engineering designs... they use to only use Japan based foundries, but to make things more people can afford like BMW did with there $30K cars they had to get cheaper cost which in golf always equals less quality and moving things to China...

 

43 minutes ago, Onestoptech said:

Got 6 through pw with nippon shafts for $550

The fact that you feel $85 a shaft was reasonable means A.) he showed you something more expensive first or B.) congrats you have done well for self and spend your money how ever you please.

 

45 minutes ago, Onestoptech said:

but my fitter felt I could shill hit steel

Of course he did when he is selling a shaft for $85 that cost the same to manufacture as the $39 version... also depending on the OEM let’s use Callaway those same 5 shaft would have been $75 not $550... also for anyone reading this steel will never have the capabilities of graphite...Bryson plays graphite iron shafts... I am sure his fitters question if he is strong enough to still hit steel??? 

I would guess you went to a fitting company affiliated with Swing Science ... but just a guess

[Onestoptech 42]

2 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@Onestoptech ... this is only kind of correct... Accra does only sell to a custom fitter. But when they started they only sold to fitters who held custom component or as the Mizuno loyalist out there will say the head only accounts... this allowed the cost of their products to be offset by the reduced cost of club components. However as the use of Accra shafts started to grow on tour and demand grew they started to sell to “only custom fitters” which requires only one head only account not them all... that coupled with the rise of OEM’s realizing they could make more money by selling directly to the customer or having the custom fitter simply order it from them gave birth to companies that use the guise of fitting to take advantage of people...

Accra does not make any actual product (tech now they might because of being owned by true sports) they source to a foundry who makes it to their specifications and engineering designs... they use to only use Japan based foundries, but to make things more people can afford like BMW did with there $30K cars they had to get cheaper cost which in golf always equals less quality and moving things to China...

 

The fact that you feel $85 a shaft was reasonable means A.) he showed you something more expensive first or B.) congrats you have done well for self and spend your money how ever you please.

 

Of course he did when he is selling a shaft for $85 that cost the same to manufacture as the $39 version... also depending on the OEM let’s use Callaway those same 5 shaft would have been $75 not $550... also for anyone reading this steel will never have the capabilities of graphite...Bryson plays graphite iron shafts... I am sure his fitters question if he is strong enough to still hit steel??? 

I would guess you went to a fitting company affiliated with Swing Science ... but just a guess

I was in a comma in 2016 for 9 months told I would never walk again so yes I thought I wasn't ever going to play again. Considering the heads for my 6-pw cheapest I found them were $400. Could have got the nippon modus cheaper your correct but I wanted the flat black shafts with the jet black heads. That was my choice. This is also basically a starter set while I rebuild my game from 5 years of basically only getting to do physical therapy to learn how to walk again. $550 is a cheap set of irons imho. I used Club Champion. I tried kbs tour. Tried project x. Didn't hit any graphite. I was still hitting my 6 iron 194 with a smash of 1.44. I'm very happy that it's been coming back so quickly. I am hoping to start playing our local amateur tournaments next spring. 

 

[Manimal26 609]

1 hour ago, Onestoptech said:

I was in a comma in 2016 for 9 months told I would never walk again so yes I thought I wasn't ever going to play again. Considering the heads for my 6-pw cheapest I found them were $400. Could have got the nippon modus cheaper your correct but I wanted the flat black shafts with the jet black heads. That was my choice. This is also basically a starter set while I rebuild my game from 5 years of basically only getting to do physical therapy to learn how to walk again. $550 is a cheap set of irons imho. I used Club Champion. I tried kbs tour. Tried project x. Didn't hit any graphite. I was still hitting my 6 iron 194 with a smash of 1.44. I'm very happy that it's been coming back so quickly. I am hoping to start playing our local amateur tournaments next spring. 

 

@Onestoptech that’s incredible! I had a bout with cancer in 2014, and doctors told me very depressing things as well... our journeys are not the same but I just want to say I am glad you did not let some else’s opinion keep you down... I hope you not only compete but win! Any help I can provide let me know! 

[Buffly 563]

14 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

Who do you know that only charges $20 for sst pure shafts... better yet $20 on a retro pure...

Golfworks. I'm sure it would be extra to remove the head and reinstall it.