2021 Fantasy Golf

[xOldBenKenobiX]

4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Hey all. If you're proposing a trade with me, please shoot me an IM on the forum and let me know one's made.  I'm not often checking the FTx site days before the event.  I saw there were two made but they don't open - which I suppose means they were retracted?  I do have it set to send emails but I'm not on that as much as the forum either .

I am probably guilty of sending some offers too.

[xOldBenKenobiX]

Alright my friends, I am a seller for these 2.

Phil Mickelson
Will Zalatoris

Make your offers.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Last ditch effort for trades- I am looking to add Finau, Reed and/or Wolff. I am willing to part with Hovland, Berger or Cantlay depending on the offer. I will state before I value all three of my guys above a 1 for 1. Although I would prefer to hold onto Hank he and Sneds can be included. My main goal is I want 4 for this week and offers reducing me from 3 to 2 will be declined. If a trade happens that works for us (or 3 team trade) great, if not then I'll just have to hope my 3  will be good enough for a couple wins this week fingers crossed!

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

9 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Last ditch effort for trades- I am looking to add Finau, Reed and/or Wolff. I am willing to part with Hovland, Berger or Cantlay depending on the offer. I will state before I value all three of my guys above a 1 for 1. Although I would prefer to hold onto Hank he and Sneds can be included. My main goal is I want 4 for this week and offers reducing me from 3 to 2 will be declined. If a trade happens that works for us (or 3 team trade) great, if not then I'll just have to hope my 3  will be good enough for a couple wins this week fingers crossed!

Offer sent

[jddaigneault]

Did I just see a trade got vetoed? I didn’t even know that could happen. 

[Josh Ross]

3 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

Did I just see a trade got vetoed? I didn’t even know that could happen. 

Unfortunately. Been discussing the trade for weeks and even publicly announced it had been agreed upon prior to The Open but they think Gavin gave up and just gifted him to me. If it had been Ryan Moore for Morikawa I'd understand but this is two heavyweights. I even offered a slightly more balanced trade by including Cantlay for Scheffler but he didn't want to part with Scheffler. Hardly sounds like giving up or he would've thrown him in too.

I am glad to know the commissioners are looking out for the league and I understand what they're doing, just feels like this one was missed. The same trade was made two weeks ago but had claim budget involved. It is what it is though!

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 minutes ago, Josh Ross said:

Unfortunately. Been discussing the trade for weeks and even publicly announced it had been agreed upon prior to The Open but they think Gavin gave up and just gifted him to me. If it had been Ryan Moore for Morikawa I'd understand but this is two heavyweights. I even offered a slightly more balanced trade by including Cantlay for Scheffler but he didn't want to part with Scheffler. Hardly sounds like giving up or he would've thrown him in too.

I am glad to know the commissioners are looking out for the league and I understand what they're doing, just feels like this one was missed. The same trade was made two weeks ago but had claim budget involved. It is what it is though!

While I would never trade Morikawa for Berger straight up, I can vouch that it was decided before the open. I tried to get Berger and GS said he was already traded just waiting for the open to finish

[jddaigneault]

Frankly, I don’t see the trade as balanced. However, there have been far more unbalanced trades that went through without protest. I understand it’s late in the game, but some of the questionable trades set the stage for the way the season unfolded. I’ve received quite a few email notifications of trades that made it feel like I had no chance to win this league because of some of the trades that go through. Either we have a metric to balance trades or we let them all happen. 

[Bucky CC]

49 minutes ago, Josh Ross said:

Unfortunately. Been discussing the trade for weeks and even publicly announced it had been agreed upon prior to The Open but they think Gavin gave up and just gifted him to me. If it had been Ryan Moore for Morikawa I'd understand but this is two heavyweights. I even offered a slightly more balanced trade by including Cantlay for Scheffler but he didn't want to part with Scheffler. Hardly sounds like giving up or he would've thrown him in too.

I am glad to know the commissioners are looking out for the league and I understand what they're doing, just feels like this one was missed. The same trade was made two weeks ago but had claim budget involved. It is what it is though!

Honestly if the trade had been made weeks ago as you discussed it would have been approved.  All four of us agreed that after Morikawa's Open win he vaulted far ahead of Berger as the number 1 in the Fed Ex Cup.  There are also only three events left and neither is playing this week or likely the Wyndham Championship.

Morikawa's win made the trade too lopsided just like an injury to either of them would have done.

All of that being said feel free revise the trade offer and we'll review again.  Just because Morikawa for Berger straight up was declined doesn't mean that all trades involving those two will be.

[Josh Ross]

21 minutes ago, Bucky CC said:

Honestly if the trade had been made weeks ago as you discussed it would have been approved.  All four of us agreed that after Morikawa's Open win he vaulted far ahead of Berger as the number 1 in the Fed Ex Cup.  There are also only three events left and neither is playing this week or likely the Wyndham Championship.

Morikawa's win made the trade too lopsided just like an injury to either of them would have done.

All of that being said feel free revise the trade offer and we'll review again.  Just because Morikawa for Berger straight up was declined doesn't mean that all trades involving those two will be.

I agree it is more uneven this week than it was before The Open but I sent undeniable proof to Undershooter that the trade was agreed upon prior to his win. The same trade was accepted and executed on July 3rd between two others in the league when Morikawa was 9th and Berger was 22nd in FedEx. This trade was accepted last week when Morikawa was 10th and Berger was 22nd. I know that the earlier one had claim budget involved but that doesn't change the fact that it was the same two players traded for each other straight up. @xOldBenKenobiX's trade chart had it dead even at the time and it's still very close.

A commissioner just today offered me Zalatoris for Oosthuizen. A player who has no value unless he wins in the next two weeks (which is incredibly unlikely and he's only finished top 10 once since The Masters) for a player who is one of the three hottest players on the planet. I guarantee if I accepted that it would've been executed within minutes. Again, I understand what you're trying to do but as was mentioned above it needs to be consistent. Much worse trades have been approved this year.

[Mtbryant01]

1 hour ago, jddaigneault said:

Frankly, I don’t see the trade as balanced. However, there have been far more unbalanced trades that went through without protest. I understand it’s late in the game, but some of the questionable trades set the stage for the way the season unfolded. I’ve received quite a few email notifications of trades that made it feel like I had no chance to win this league because of some of the trades that go through. Either we have a metric to balance trades or we let them all happen. 

I agree with this on that I was surprised this was vetoed based off other trades that had happened this year. I think this trade was definitely not the most lopsided. I understand the moderators for the league have to make tough calls as the season gets closer to the end, but I wish it was a little more even on making calls throughout the season. I guess, answering my own thoughts was that some of the trades made earlier had plenty of time to play out during the rest of the season. 

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

I personally don’t see that trade even close but hey that’s me. I don’t know the standings for each team honestly but I just don’t see that being an even close trade even before this week….but I’m no FG expert so for what it’s worth 

[Josh Ross]

3 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I personally don’t see that trade even close but hey that’s me. I don’t know the standings for each team honestly but I just don’t see that being an even close trade even before this week….but I’m no FG expert so for what it’s worth 

You made the same trade a couple weeks ago though. I understand you included some claim budget but there's no real way to value that. $18 won't get you anybody decent with the claims that have been made this year.

Either way, the fact that I was offered that extremely lopsided trade earlier today by one of the commissioners makes this completely unfair. Recent play by Morikawa deemed my trade unfair because he's 21 spots ahead of Berger but he offered me an unranked golfer with no value for the guy in 9th and without a doubt one of the three hottest golfers on the planet right now. I thought nothing of it when it was offered but it's outrageous now that a much more even trade was vetoed and we all know his trade would have been executed. What changed in the couple of hours between that proposal and my trade that has been known to exist for days being accepted? Gavin is out of town with his wife and hasn't been on much or it probably would have been accepted before The Open was even finished. I sent it just after The Open started because that's what we agreed on and it was before either of us knew Collin was going to win. There is zero reason for this to be vetoed and I along with others have chimed in with many examples of why. I know nothing I say is going to change the outcome but anyone else in my shoes would feel just as cheated. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

My two cents. If agreed upon before the open then it’s fair. Granted probably should have been accepted during the open but that is semantics

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

19 minutes ago, Josh Ross said:

You made the same trade a couple weeks ago though. I understand you included some claim budget but there's no real way to value that. $18 won't get you anybody decent with the claims that have been made this year.

Either way, the fact that I was offered that extremely lopsided trade earlier today by one of the commissioners makes this completely unfair. Recent play by Morikawa deemed my trade unfair because he's 21 spots ahead of Berger but he offered me an unranked golfer with no value for the guy in 9th and without a doubt one of the three hottest golfers on the planet right now. I thought nothing of it when it was offered but it's outrageous now that a much more even trade was vetoed and we all know his trade would have been executed. What changed in the couple of hours between that proposal and my trade that has been known to exist for days being accepted? Gavin is out of town with his wife and hasn't been on much or it probably would have been accepted before The Open was even finished. I sent it just after The Open started because that's what we agreed on and it was before either of us knew Collin was going to win. There is zero reason for this to be vetoed and I along with others have chimed in with many examples of why. I know nothing I say is going to change the outcome but anyone else in my shoes would feel just as cheated. 

That is true I mean history of them is actually fairly closer looking at it, win Probably clouding my opinion. 

[daviddvm]

Moderators doing their job well!

 

[Josh Ross]

2 minutes ago, daviddvm said:

Moderators doing their job well!

 

Hey, I've said from the start that I appreciate them and the fact that they are looking out for the league. But someone can't offer a stupid trade and then veto a fair trade when I decline the lopsided one.

With that being said, I'm finished on the topic. I appreciate all the support and people siding with me here and in messages. Let's me know I'm not the only one that feels like I was cheated. I can do without Morikawa, it's just the lack of consistency that triggered me and the assumption that foul play was involved. I appreciate you guys running the league and as I've said multiple times I'm having a blast playing. Looking forward to the playoffs!

[jddaigneault]

Listen, I’m fine if the trade is vetoed. It’s the rest of the non-vetoed trades I take issue with. This is definitely not the most lopsided trade of the year. Some have been downright frustrating. For me the lack of consistency is the issue. The rules can’t change just because we’re up against the end of the season. 

[Josh Ross]

At least we rejuvenated the thread, there hadn't been much chatter in here lately lol.

[Bucky CC]

30 minutes ago, Josh Ross said:

You made the same trade a couple weeks ago though. I understand you included some claim budget but there's no real way to value that. $18 won't get you anybody decent with the claims that have been made this year.

Either way, the fact that I was offered that extremely lopsided trade earlier today by one of the commissioners makes this completely unfair. Recent play by Morikawa deemed my trade unfair because he's 21 spots ahead of Berger but he offered me an unranked golfer with no value for the guy in 9th and without a doubt one of the three hottest golfers on the planet right now. I thought nothing of it when it was offered but it's outrageous now that a much more even trade was vetoed and we all know his trade would have been executed. What changed in the couple of hours between that proposal and my trade that has been known to exist for days being accepted? Gavin is out of town with his wife and hasn't been on much or it probably would have been accepted before The Open was even finished. I sent it just after The Open started because that's what we agreed on and it was before either of us knew Collin was going to win. There is zero reason for this to be vetoed and I along with others have chimed in with many examples of why. I know nothing I say is going to change the outcome but anyone else in my shoes would feel just as cheated. 

"I thought nothing of it when it was offered but it's outrageous now that a much more even trade was vetoed and we all know his trade would have been executed."

I strongly disagree with your comment alleging collusion amount the commissioners.  If for some reason you would have accepted Zalatoris for Louie we would have vetoed the offer.  We had a lot of discussion over your trade and ultimately decided it was unfair due to the fact that Morikawa won the Open and is at the top of the FedEx Cup with only 3 tournaments left.

If you'd like to discuss further please feel free to reach out to one of us directly via PM or on Slack.  Continuing to argue on the forum only damages the league.

[Josh Ross]

1 minute ago, Bucky CC said:

"I thought nothing of it when it was offered but it's outrageous now that a much more even trade was vetoed and we all know his trade would have been executed."

I strongly disagree with your comment alleging collusion amount the commissioners.  If for some reason you would have accepted Zalatoris for Louie we would have vetoed the offer.  We had a lot of discussion over your trade and ultimately decided it was unfair due to the fact that Morikawa won the Open and is at the top of the FedEx Cup with only 3 tournaments left.

If you'd like to discuss further please feel free to reach out to one of us directly via PM or on Slack.  Continuing to argue on the forum only damages the league.

I apologize, I didn't mean it as collusion at all. I just assumed the person that offered it would be able to execute it. Either way, I didn't mind the offer at all. It was just interesting that something that lopsided was offered the same day my trade was cancelled. I wish no damage on the league, I enjoy it far too much. 

[Undershooter]

1 minute ago, Josh Ross said:

I apologize, I didn't mean it as collusion at all. I just assumed the person that offered it would be able to execute it. Either way, I didn't mind the offer at all. It was just interesting that something that lopsided was offered the same day my trade was cancelled. I wish no damage on the league, I enjoy it far too much. 

We don't give anyone the authority to push through their own trades. We have to ask one of the others to do it for us. 

[Josh Ross]

Just now, Undershooter said:

We don't give anyone the authority to push through their own trades. We have to ask one of the others to do it for us. 

That makes sense. And re-reading my statement it looks like I'm attacking the commish that offered the trade but I'm really not. I have nothing but respect for everyone here and we all offer trades that are crazy sometimes. I guess I just assumed he wouldn't offer something he knew his fellow commissioners would veto. Thanks for responding to all my messages earlier.

[GolfSpy_APH]

I know basically all has been said, but wanted to just say I can see both sides however been involved in the previous Morikawa for Berger trade when it was said here that this trade was happening again I was curious to see what "extra" was going to go along with Berger. I insisted on FABB being added as it will become more valuable now that the trade deadline is approaching and our only way of adding talent will be waivers. This is also the time of year where some bigger names can get dropped for players that are playing. Again adding value to FABB and 18% of our total budget isn't a small amount. Finally I'll add in the week I traded for Berger + FABB for Morikawa, Berger was a favorite going into the weekend and playing while Morikawa was not and that adds value as well.

Example being this week I was trying to get Finau, because I wanted 4, however with that little green star his value is up and at a price I just couldn't find a deal. Him for Hovland straight up to me isn't enough value for Hovland, but anyway this is to say the timing of when that previous trade happened also inflated Bergers value.

I was disappointed when I saw it was a straight 1 for 1 as I felt there should have been more added on the Berger side, but everyone agrees to different trades (pretty sure Morikawa has been traded a lot this season). There have been more lopsided trades and I went through all the trades last week trying to find some, but I think with this one a little too little value given for him and the timing made it look less fair as well. Given there is only 1 event they may play in then playoffs and Morikawa being a lock to play final weekend and Berger maybe only 2 weekends depending on play I can see why it was vetoed. 

Hope both of you guys can rework the deal and find something that works for both of you and is able to add the extra value for Morikawa.

[Bucky CC]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I can see both sides

Of course you can, you live in Switzerland!

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

I think there are (at least) two things we should agree on to make sure these late trades are fair:

1. Zalatoris trades should be vetoed. Anyone that still has him knew he was a risk, and he gave them a good run. At this point, no playoff-bound team should be shopping him around for a Top 50 (or even Top 75) FedEx guy. Similar to some of the frustration above, I was offered Z for Finau straight up today, which I declined immediately, but I would hope it would get blocked if I accepted. 
2. Any top tier guy coming from a fringe or out-of-contention team and going to a playoff-bound team should expect a lot of scrutiny. The exception in my mind is if a fringe team is getting someone in the next field to help them with a playoff push. 

I don't disagree with the Berger-Morikawa trade on paper - both are currently in position to make the Tour Championship, and Morikawa might be in position to take a week off (that's still a thing guys do for the Northern Trust, right?), which would put you at a disadvantage. But I get why it was vetoed given the current standings. If it were two playoff teams or if Berger was playing 3M, I'd say let it go through, but there's just no upside for the other team. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

11 minutes ago, Bucky CC said:

Of course you can, you live in Switzerland!

I guess I walked into that one.... well played well played

Also small milestone of 300 posts in this thread!

[Josh Ross]

6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I guess I walked into that one.... well played well played

Also small milestone of 300 posts in this thread!

You're welcome, haha.

[xOldBenKenobiX]

Late getting here, what did I miss?



I am kidding of course.

My two cents for what is worth.

Trade offer's come and go, and if is accepted I have no issues with them being processed, regardless of if they could be lopsided, I think at this point, most of us know how to evaluate an offer, the trading sheet is a great tool that was created from @GolfSpy_APH idea of an easy tool to compare players, it does quantify some of the value of the player, but that is just part of it, anyone making a trade should try and understand how their players have been playing as of late and how they might fair on the near future.

Morikawa was part of my roster for a quick second last week, I feel bad now after the open that I did not keep him, but at the time the trade I made gathered me some good value, keeping him would have probably got me a few more wins over the weekend, but we all take a risk trading.

This week I had another trade that was heavily lopsided on my favor, and I even reached back out to ensure that the offer was correct, the other person assured me that it was because they needed players who are playing the next couple of weeks for the final playoff push.

 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

53 minutes ago, xOldBenKenobiX said:

 the other person assured me that it was because they needed players who are playing the next couple of weeks for the final playoff push.

 

This last part is huge at this stage in the season. @GolfSpy_APH mentioned this in one of the posts above, but we were trying to work out a Hovland-for-Tony deal that we just couldn't get right. Neither of us were OK with a 1-for-1 trade for these two, but for very different reasons: he views Hovland as higher value overall (FWIW, so do I); for me, at 16th place, I can't risk another 2-8 week just to get Hovland as my long-term play, so I couldn't give up Tony without getting a decent player back that takes his spot in the field (both of us were actually trying to fill out a solid team for the 3M). Filling his "value" gap and my "playing" gap could have led to something that many view as lopsided, but it would've worked out for both of us given the timing -- if I was in the top 5, I wouldn't have cared so much about replacing Tony in the field, but I need every win I can get right now. We never got there, so hopefully Tony does well this week