What is the WORST place to get a fitting? Fitting HORROR Stories?

[dlow206]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t recall which pro it was...I want to say Andrew Rice in one of his YouTube videos talked about how people’s swings are pretty repeatable but because of bad mechanics or sequencing then club will get out of position and they hav two compensate. 
 

You have been videoing your swing for awhile and feel free to correct me but I think that most times you looked at it on different days you would see a similar swing pattern albeit not always consistent results. 

Yes, i agree, although my swing has changed a bit over time, as I have been working on things with my instructor, its still my swing, and it still has many of the same characteristics as before. Even when I change things like being more patient in transition, to me it feels like I am pausing at the top, but really on video its not that much different looking that what I feel is too quick of a transition. 

I think when folks improve their swing, they may need to get a few things tweaked with their equipment (ex. maybe a change in lie angle), but its not likely the equipment they got fitted for previously will stop working for them. 

[tony@CIC]

I take offense to this statement because newbies don't know any better - I fall into that category. 

Before I joined this forum, I was in the same category. Not only didn't I know that fitters existed, but also didn't know what constitutes a fitting.

While my experience isn't a horror story, in retrospect it wasn't a good experience. My 'fitting' was with the Pro at our Club. Basically he let me swing a Ping driver and an iron and said 'this' is what you need. He had no other brands for me to try nor shaft combinations. Didn't do any static measurements and the shop doesn't own a launch monitor. On the other hand I was just starting out so not sure any other brands would have made a difference. That was 8 or 9 years ago.

Fast forward this past summer, one of my wife's friends who is a pretty good golfer wanted a new set of Clubs. My wife tried to convince her to go to our fitter, but she decided to do the expedient thing and use our Club Pro. Her experience with the same Pro wasn't any different: he ordered her a new set of Ping ladies irons and driver.


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[silver & black]

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Fast forward this past summer, one of my wife's friends who is a pretty good golfer wanted a new set of Clubs. My wife tried to convince her to go to our fitter, but she decided to do the expedient thing and use our Club Pro. Her experience with the same Pro wasn't any different: he ordered her a new set of Ping ladies irons and driver.

So.... not so much a fitting as a sale?

[Rtracymog]

Sometimes in a fitting you just find something that works even if you don’t have the most repeatable swing. A good fitter can tell within a few swings whether a particular club is meshing with your swing or not. Maybe you find something that feels great and that leads to better swings and more confidence. You should leave a fitting with a sense of comfort and confidence. If you’re leaving with doubts, you’re always going to have that nagging feeling in the back of your mind. When I was fitting, I always said that you can’t quantify confidence, but if that club looks good and feels good as you stand over it, you’re already in a better place.


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[Buffly]

17 hours ago, jaskanski said:

Just because you're a newbie to golf doesn't mean you're also bereft of any common sense. And you can't be bothered to do any research to find a good fitter? It seems like you're proving my point.  Can I provide any helpful content? I've never met you and I have no idea where you live or where you play and a what level - and you want me to tell you what's good for you? I think you've proved my point again. Have another look in that mirror....

It was your assumptions that lead you to believe I asked for myself = totally wrong!

I was just asking in general for the community without thinking of myself at all.

[russtopherb]

It was your assumptions that lead you to believe I asked for myself = totally wrong!
I was just asking in general for the community without thinking of myself at all.

You wrote “I am thinking of a fitting for myself in 2021” and then listed your past experiences.

I think the assumption that you were asking for yourself was pretty much inferred in your OP.


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[Buffly]

2 hours ago, russtopherb said:

You wrote “I am thinking of a fitting for myself in 2021” and then listed your past experiences.

I think the assumption that you were asking for yourself was pretty much inferred in your OP.


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You're right. Thank you for pointing out how dumb I am of a poster of topics because I did it all wrong. Please forgive my idiotic noobiness.

 

[Chip Strokes]

[Kanoito]

20 hours ago, Buffly said:

I hope to someday. Yes, absolutely

So let me get this straight. You are not paying for a fitting, but expect top-notch service free of charge?

If that's the case, I think your title is a little misleading.

A horror story would be paying $300 for a full bag fitting at True Spec or Club Champion and then experience what you mentioned.

What you encountered is just common sense, you got what you paid for: nothing...

[Manimal26]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:13 AM, Buffly said:

I don't get your response? Why would you want to keep the conversation out of the forum when it could help someone other than just me?

I was never expecting personalized fitting, but I didn't know fitters are not created equal. I have never actually been fit. I only shared my big box experiences to start off the conversation of something not close to optimal. 

I guess my optimal fitting experience would be to be fit into an attainable used set of clubs that only costs around $800 for 13 clubs that are up to 15 years old irons, new Maltby Wedges, and within 5 years of drivers, woods and hybrids. I just want to know specs and models that fit me so I can buy them, have them adjusted, and play them without having to order new equipment at new equipment prices. I am a poor man playing a rich mans game and not looking to keep up with shiny new metal when a few scratches will do the job. 

If you did not know all fitters were not created equal, but at the same time don’t get my response of why I would wanted to talk with one on one you miss the point of fitting. The goal of getting a fitting is to improve your game and your game alone. At that point I was willing to share my knowledge and while I will never claim to be an expert I do have some key insights and true horror stories that some people may take offense too because it happened to them.

At this point you would be better served going to bed earlier instead of typing messages in a forum at 1am my time. that way you could get up early and make an impact in your life and stop making excuses and throwing a pity party. The only reason you don’t have the things you want and you’re not where you want to be is because you’re not willing to make the sacrifice.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Ok where to start. I understand there have been some back and forth in this thread so far and the basis of it was to share experiences. Sadly most all big box stores are similar, that I think we can all agree on. 

On the point about used clubs- Having worked in shop and done fittings myself and been trained for fittings as well as club building here are a few quick thoughts. One used clubs are hard to fit for, often there are only whats there which is often limited in supply. OEM's usually only have fitting carts with their newest kit, again makes sense. They want to sell new kit and not last years. At times of you can find EOL and such, but its few and far between. Then lets just say a used head was found that was appealing, great now if the shaft isn't right having to pony up for that is often going to cost the same amount as a new stick and therefore making the used option somewhat obsolete. I have purchased my fair share of used clubs and from experience I wish I had just used what I had and saved till I had the money to get properly fit for the clubs that I have ended up with. In the end would have been a lot cheaper. Hopefully that helps on the used front, sadly its just not very feasible for stores and OEMs to be in the used business. 

Now to the point of the thread- sharing stories about poor fittings. Now I am not 100% but I do believe there is are threads that cover several of the issues you bring up. As you mentioned this is to try and help others like yourself who are relatively new to the game. I like to think that if they are like you they have come to the right place in MGS and taking a good first step in searching for some knowledge. If that is the case I have seen this thread go a bit sideways and off the intended path, we have several threads that speak on the merits of getting fit and getting fit properly. To that end we also have a podcast episode that talks about new kit vs lessons as well as many other threads where that is brought up. 

The topic itself is a tough one as many more big box stores are as has been said there for sales. Even someone new to the game who wants to get fit or is new to the idea can learn a thing or two in a fitting. However a TXG experience costs big bucks and is just not the norm, more places then not are going to have a hour window where they try their best to get you into something that works for you. There is a reason people travel from all over to go to places like TXG or a certified fitter because of the overall experience they will get. Sadly expectations from a big box store are rarely going to live up to expectations, whether its inexperience, bias or any other number of things a quick try and fit usually isn't the answer. 

Regardless of the previous post hopefully a good message can be sent from here on out relating to the topic at hand and we can continue conversation in a productive manner. 

[BNewton51]

I think we made a left turn at Albuquerque here...   For the love of the game folks.....for the love of the game.  

[Manimal26]

13 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

OEM's usually only have fitting carts with their newest kit, again makes sense. They want to sell new kit and not last years. At times of you can find EOL and such, but its few and far between.

Side note fitting carts are not free. EOL stands for end of life. These are usually supported at times by OEM’s to get them out of inventory. This is an opportunity to push for better deals.

 

16 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

Regardless of the previous post hopefully a good message can be sent from here on out relating to the topic at hand and we can continue conversation in a productive manner

Well said @Apolloshowl this has gone a tad sideways. At least 2020 is almost over with. Think everyone is getting a little testy

[russtopherb]

7 hours ago, Buffly said:

You're right. Thank you for pointing out how dumb I am of a poster of topics because I did it all wrong. Please forgive my idiotic noobiness.

 

1) That was not the intent at all, and I think you know that. I was pointing out how I, and other posters, assumed you were asking about yourself based on your original post.

2) Asking questions then lashing out at others when you don't get an answer you want or like isn't the way to go. I'm seeing a pattern with your posts and topics where you seem to immediately take offense when you don't get a response that fits with what you're looking for, and make a comment like the one above or something to the affect of "I don't want to offend the MGS golf gods or know it alls" or whatever and it's extremely off-putting. We're all here to give advice when we can, and answer topics as they're posted to have conversations about a sport & hobby we all enjoy. This is one of the most helpful and civil golf forums you'll find on the web. And believe me, I've been around. But coming in with an ulterior motive when you post or constantly lashing out when you get an answer you don't like isn't the way to go. It might be that way some other places, but definitely not here. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

And look what TXG just posted! 

 

[Middler]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:02 PM, jaskanski said:

Lessons and practice are knowledge. The beauty is, you can apply that knowledge to any set clubs you ever own in the future.

As for fitted clubs, ever wonder how they make lessons and practice easier? Example - it's been said numerous times about the correct set up with grip, stance, ball position, alignment - before you even start your backswing - can have a tremendous influence over the outcome of a shot. Get those fundamentals correct in your set up, and you stand a pretty good chance of hitting a good shot. Question: is it easier to set up a club that is built to your physical stature and hands that one that is not?

I think we know that answer. So you're in good shape before you even swing. Now let's pose another question: is it easier to swing a club that is balanced for feel and weight and length than one that is too heavy, too light or too short or long?

I think we know that answer too. Final question: is it easier to return a club head squarely at impact with a club that has the correct flex and shaft profile, married to the correct face and lie angle than with a club that is too stiff/weak, with to much/little offset with the incorrect lie angle?

Hmmm - that's a tough one. I think it might be with the fitted club?

Can you see a pattern emerging here? As a fitter, we simple eliminate the variables which have an influence over ball flight and control them into a set of parameters that give a greater chance of success. That's just plain logic based on physics. And it's hard to argue the case otherwise.

Except you’re not quantifying how much benefit one should expect from a fitting at all. We know what a fitting can do for us, but how that translates to improved scoring? Exceptions aside, for most players, who aren’t grossly misfit, the benefit is very small from everything I’ve read. Probably a couple strokes if that for most of us.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Except you’re not quantifying how much benefit one should expect from a fitting at all. We know what a fitting can do for us, but how that translates to improved scoring? Exceptions aside, for most players, who aren’t grossly misfit, the benefit is very small from everything I’ve read. Probably a couple strokes if that for most of us.

I am not sure it is quantifiable just like lessons aren't really quantifiable.  I personally think fitting, lessons, practice, and education are all part of the recipe for improvement.   I could get fit which in theory would increase distance and narrow distribution, but with bad strategy and/or swing issues you probably won't see much improvement.  Just like I can take lessons and become a worse player.   Many people on here say they are feel players and if fitted clubs improve their feel but not their scores is that considered quantifiable benefit?   Improvement is also something that has to be measured over time and as we see on this forum and on other forums,  people move on from clubs; even fitted clubs, frequently.  I would also guess what you consider quantifiable evidence is different than someone else as you have been outspoken about the fitting process.

[Buffly]

14 hours ago, russtopherb said:

1) That was not the intent at all, and I think you know that. I was pointing out how I, and other posters, assumed you were asking about yourself based on your original post.

2) Asking questions then lashing out at others when you don't get an answer you want or like isn't the way to go. I'm seeing a pattern with your posts and topics where you seem to immediately take offense when you don't get a response that fits with what you're looking for, and make a comment like the one above or something to the affect of "I don't want to offend the MGS golf gods or know it alls" or whatever and it's extremely off-putting. We're all here to give advice when we can, and answer topics as they're posted to have conversations about a sport & hobby we all enjoy. This is one of the most helpful and civil golf forums you'll find on the web. And believe me, I've been around. But coming in with an ulterior motive when you post or constantly lashing out when you get an answer you don't like isn't the way to go. It might be that way some other places, but definitely not here. 

My apologies to the community if I did that, and if you say I did then I think you may be right. 

I have a tendency towards dry sarcasm, which you quoted in the reply, and I make fun of myself to try and keep it light. Not trying to be insulting, but rather to bring a few smiles. 

I will try and be more cognizant of my tone and habits to keep them moving in the appropriate direction. Thank you for calling me out! 

[Jackal]

Academy Sports, Dicks, and some small privately owned golf shops.

They may have launch monitors, all the different club specs, etc. but they just fit to what looks best.

We to a Golf USA that does an ultimate fitting.

He looks to see if you are compensating, or changing your swing to make something work.

He also compares the club you are wanting to replace.

If he can't find something better, or that will do what you want, he won't sell you a club.

Sometimes he will make an adjustment to your swing, and have you come back in 2 weeks for a fitting.

[Middler]

Funny how people here go out of their way to avoid quantifying how many strokes most of could expect to get from a fitting. Sure there’s some percentage who’ve been grossly misfit, call them 20%, and that may be generous. But for the other 80% of us, I’d be surprised if most get more than 2-3 strokes from a fitting. 

Many here oversell fittings to any and all as some sort of golf panacea IMO. Again if you’re buying clubs anyway, by all means get a quality fitting. But if you’re getting fit solely expecting a night and day improvement in scoring, odds are you won’t get much of anything. 

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

Funny how people here go out of their way to avoid quantifying how many strokes most of could expect to get from a fitting. Sure there’s some percentage who’ve been grossly misfit, call them 20%, and that may be generous. But for the other 80% of us, I’d be surprised if most get more than 2-3 strokes from a fitting. 

Many here oversell fittings to any and all as some sort of golf panacea IMO. Again if you’re buying clubs anyway, by all means get a quality fitting. But if you’re getting fit solely expecting a night and day improvement in scoring, odds are you won’t get much of anything. 

I don't think people are avoiding your question, and I will say again that I don't think you can quantify unless you look at a person who is dedicated to improving their scores.  For a player that just gets fit,  you are most likely correct that there will be little to no scoring improvement just from fitting.  They should hit the ball better and have the tools necessary to improve their game.   

Are you talking 2-3 stroke a round or 2-3 stroke on scoring distribution over time?   What level of player are you talking about?  What is their commitment to improvement.   

What type of evidence do you want to see and if that number was .5 strokes what would your response be?  How could we provide something that would change your bias?  I honestly don't think any provided evidence will change your bias against fitting; which is fine.   We can point you to reports that talk about strokes saved, increased distance, and better shot dispersion but I don't think you would consider that quantifiable evidence.   We can also discuss + handicap players that never had lessons and play 20 year old clubs that they bought off the rack.  

Can you lay a roof with a framing hammer?  Can you drive a car with the seat pushed all the way forward?  Can you open a can without a can opener?  Can you cut wood with a hack saw?  Can you ride mountain trails without a mountain bike?  Do professional golfers sometimes struggle with equipment changes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaskanski]

Do people avoid getting fitted? Yes - all the time. 

Do they have a quantifiable reason not to? No - never. Other than:

It's too expensive

I don't know where to get fit

There's no fitters near where I live

I'm too old

I'm too young

My swing is not repeatable

My swing has changed

I'm working on my swing first

My last set didn't work

I don't play enough to justify it

I play to a professional standard with OTR clubs or any clubs I choose because I'm special like that

 

 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

When I first started playing, and I mean first. I thought I would do the right thing and get fit for irons. I went to a place that just built custom clubs. After all the measurements and stuff (which we all know  was less than accurate based on technology 30 years ago) I was told I was an off the rack fit, regular flex, except I needed a mid size grip. He said something like 80 percent of golfers fit to standard specs. If your tall you have long arms and if your short you usually have short arms.

So over the last 25 years or so I would just buy a last year model leftover and change the grips anytime I thought I needed some thing shiney and new.  Last August I was phone fit by Jason at Sub-70 for the 699 Pro testing. Based on our conversation, swing speed, carry distance on an 8 iron, and measurements I was changed to be plus 1/4" in length with a higher launch shaft in stiff flex. Now with a better fit in my hands my handicap went from a 3.5 to a low of 1.2 over the summer and now at a 1.6.

Can you be off the rack and play well? Absolutely. Will you play even better with a proper fit? Absolutely. Could I play even better with an on site fitting where shafts could be swapped out and utilize all the launch monitor data. Absolutely. I would probably have to drive 2 hours to get to a place or hope for a good fitter to show up at a demo day. (I've had good and bad experiences at demo days) I have had good and bad driver fittings at both demo days and big box stores. My best driver fitting to date was at a PGA SS in Orlando while on vacation. The guy spent a lot of time with me. I knew I wanted the G400 head based on the MGS win that year. The rest was changing all the shaft options and finding the proper loft head to get me the best results based on the launch monitor data. Still hitting that driver today straight down the middle and about 230 to 240. Not bad for someone in their 60's with a bad back.

 

[tony@CIC]

On 12/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, Apolloshowl said:

And look what TXG just posted! 

 

Even though it was a sublime infomercial for TXG, I picked up some great info from this video - thx for passing it along. An additional dimension/ question that I don't believe Ian has addressed is the benefit of outside vs inside fittings.  

[Onestoptech]

My worst experience was with golftec in Nevada. The fitter straight up told me they figure out the right head shaft doesn't really make a difference. As soon as I heard that I couldn't get out of there fast enough. The main point of a fitting in my opinion is matching a shaft to your swing. Then taking into account the lie and loft needed, then look at heads that allows needed adjustments. The ball and shaft that match the tempo of your swing is the most important part of fitting in my opinion.

The first fitting I had was in high school with the nike club reps and it was very interesting this was early days of shot tracking technology. That they fitted us into their first balls and made adjustments to our existing equipment (shafts, grips, lie, loft, and recommendations on clubs if outdated) 

In college got fitted for nike clubs I hatted there clubs. Continued to play my high school clubs untill I was injured in 2016 recently tried golftec, then a private fitter at a local course who was brand agnostic that guy was just trying to hawk used clubs he had available. Then bit the bullet and just paid club champion. Great experience there.

[FrogginBullfish]

Some fitters believe the shaft holds greater importance than the head. Some fitters believe the head holds greater importance than the shaft.

Having followed along with TXG for quite awhile now, I'm more inclined to believe the latter -- the head is more important than the shaft.

That doesn't mean you can't or won't get a good fit built around a shaft but I'm not one who believes the shaft is the engine as it seems you do.

I also think that your mindset was the problem with your GolfTec fitting. You're allowed to have your opinions and thoughts on the process but you went to that place for a reason. It's not sensible to immediately discard that person's expertise because of a philosophical difference of opinion on how fittings should be. There are far more significant red flags to look for than whether the fitter fits to a head or fits to a shaft. Both can yield great results.

My worst experience was with golftec in Nevada. The fitter straight up told me they figure out the right head shaft doesn't really make a difference. As soon as I heard that I couldn't get out of there fast enough. The main point of a fitting in my opinion is matching a shaft to your swing. Then taking into account the lie and loft needed, then look at heads that allows needed adjustments. The ball and shaft that match the tempo of your swing is the most important part of fitting in my opinion.
The first fitting I had was in high school with the nike club reps and it was very interesting this was early days of shot tracking technology. That they fitted us into their first balls and made adjustments to our existing equipment (shafts, grips, lie, loft, and recommendations on clubs if outdated) 
In college got fitted for nike clubs I hatted there clubs. Continued to play my high school clubs untill I was injured in 2016 recently tried golftec, then a private fitter at a local course who was brand agnostic that guy was just trying to hawk used clubs he had available. Then bit the bullet and just paid club champion. Great experience there.

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[Onestoptech]

1 hour ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Some fitters believe the shaft holds greater importance than the head. Some fitters believe the head holds greater importance than the shaft.

Having followed along with TXG for quite awhile now, I'm more inclined to believe the latter -- the head is more important than the shaft.

That doesn't mean you can't or won't get a good fit built around a shaft but I'm not one who believes the shaft is the engine as it seems you do.

I also think that your mindset was the problem with your GolfTec fitting. You're allowed to have your opinions and thoughts on the process but you went to that place for a reason. It's not sensible to immediately discard that person's expertise because of a philosophical difference of opinion on how fittings should be. There are far more significant red flags to look for than whether the fitter fits to a head or fits to a shaft. Both can yield great results.

 

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That wasn't my only issue but it was a major one he didn't say we would try other shafts he said shaft doesn't matter. It's a whole package approach I think figuring out the shaft profile lets you determine length, lie, and loft. Once those are determined then, you limit the head choices that will be able to be adjusted to match the needed lie and loft. Then you test heads and make any needed adjustments once you find the head that works best for the client. Fitting should actually start at grip then shaft then head then fine tune. Not one part more important than the next it's just the simplest way to narrow down options. Only certain pairing will work for each of your clients needs. The goal is a lower score. 

[FrogginBullfish]

That wasn't my only issue but it was a major one he didn't say we would try other shafts he said shaft doesn't matter. It's a whole package approach I think figuring out the shaft profile lets you determine length, lie, and loft. Once those are determined then, you limit the head choices that will be able to be adjusted to match the needed lie and loft. Then you test heads and make any needed adjustments once you find the head that works best for the client. Fitting should actually start at grip then shaft then head then fine tune. Not one part more important than the next it's just the simplest way to narrow down options. Only certain pairing will work for each of your clients needs. The goal is a lower score. 

A fitter saying the shaft doesn't matter doesn't mean that they weren't going to have you try other shafts. It just meant the main focus was getting you in the right head then fine tuning the shaft from there.

You absolutely do not need to lock in a shaft profile to figure out loft, lie, or length or to determine the best head for a player.

Based on these posts, unless you find a fitter who shares your exact fitting philosophy, you're probably not going to have a good fitting experience.

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[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, Onestoptech said:

That wasn't my only issue but it was a major one he didn't say we would try other shafts he said shaft doesn't matter. It's a whole package approach I think figuring out the shaft profile lets you determine length, lie, and loft. Once those are determined then, you limit the head choices that will be able to be adjusted to match the needed lie and loft. Then you test heads and make any needed adjustments once you find the head that works best for the client. Fitting should actually start at grip then shaft then head then fine tune. Not one part more important than the next it's just the simplest way to narrow down options. Only certain pairing will work for each of your clients needs. The goal is a lower score. 

I’ve been for for irons by several different brand sales reps including the guy that’s the lpga tour rep for pxg when he worked for ping. My last iron fitting was by a pxg fitter who used to be with TaylorMade and has a good reputation as a fitter.

the shaft was never used to determine loft, length or lie.  Length and lie was determined by swing and how it was delivering the club to the ball, the subsequent contact point on the face and ball flight which was also used to adjust lie.

loft of adjusted was done based on spin and ball flight. 
 

shaft has always been used to optimize the ball flight.  

[Onestoptech]

41 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve been for for irons by several different brand sales reps including the guy that’s the lpga tour rep for pxg when he worked for ping. My last iron fitting was by a pxg fitter who used to be with TaylorMade and has a good reputation as a fitter.

the shaft was never used to determine loft, length or lie.  Length and lie was determined by swing and how it was delivering the club to the ball, the subsequent contact point on the face and ball flight which was also used to adjust lie.

loft of adjusted was done based on spin and ball flight. 
 

shaft has always been used to optimize the ball flight.  

 Clearly you don't understand what I'm saying you find the shaft profile that is going to match the swing then you test a few out during those tests you figure out loft lie and length. Once you have the shaft profile, and an idea of loft and lie needed. Then you start working on finding a head that is going to give the client the look and feel they want. Then you dial lie, loft, and swing weight. It's a process.

The shaft does optimize ball flight and dispersion. Almost all fittings I've done have started finding optimal launch conditions with a shaft and head close to your current clubs. After watching your metrics then comes shaft testing to get the most out of your swing. Once that's done then head is selected based off info learned during shaft selection. Then it's about fine tuning it.

The reason I say loft and lie determine head selection is because if you need something like 5 toe down not all club heads will allow that much bending. It's not the final loft and lie it's guessing off of the launch monitor numbers. 

My point is each part is important and building from your hands out to end of club gives the fitter best info to get best fit. That's from my experience being fitted multiple times with very experienced sponsored fitters and club champion. Golftec is not a top tier fitter in my opinion.