What OEM is the best off the rack WITHOUT being fitted?

[FrogginBullfish]

Ping...

Is there an OEM that provides clubs that really do fit their consumers better than another OEM without having to be customized, custom fit, or changed from off the rack? For example, is the stock shaft true to flex, a good fit for length, loft, and lie, and the head design does what the marketing hype says?
I was reading comments all over talking about drivers being marketed with shafts that are too long, lofts that are too low and flexes that are too stiff than what a player needs. Then other people saying fitters fit based on distance wars. Then posts on launch monitor battles have created loft jacked clubs. 
Is any OEM cutting through the fringe with integrity?
I have a couple OEMs in mind, but I am curious what you all think?
I am not trying to eliminate getting fit. I am just asking if there are brands that fit more people closer to the stock offerings like the company just gets it!

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[FrogginBullfish]

Offering to custom build the fitted clubs to the exact specifications with no deviations in loft, lie, or swingweight with other things like shaft frequency matching, puring, wedge stamping and other personalizations is a service.

Oh, no I completely understand the point you're making.  And I wouldn't dispute it in any way shape or form. 
What I would say about a CC or similar establishment is that they are selling a service but they guise it as a place to get golf equipment.  You can't market yourself as a service oriented establishment and then say but we'll sell you the clubs and upcharge you without people taking exception to it. 
That said, however, I am one that would say if CC or whatever establishment you choose to go to is within your budget and you're willing to pay for the exact service / product they are offering then there is no right or wrong.  It fits for YOU.  And that's ok.  I personally just wouldn't go to a place such as that to pay twice, in some cases, for products that I could go elsewhere to get and only pay once.  
Even saying that though it comes down to what the market will bare and if it bares out that those businesses can thrive with what they are doing, then god bless them!  

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[Manimal26]

21 hours ago, BNewton51 said:

Having worked in the Golf Industry for a while in my younger days I know there's not a LOT of margin in clubs, BUT if you add in a charge for the fitting and the margin, those types of places are making out hand over fist.  Not to mention if they charge you for any adjustments that you ask to have done and or swapping of shafts or grips

@BNewton51 golf has changed a lot there is really not any margin in OEM clubs off the rack anymore. Maybe if you’re lucky 10%. OEM have begun to use performance based credits to backend subsidize a companies p&l based on volume. Good shops will pass that on to its customers which creates loyalty. Fitters also don’t get paid for their time at places like CC and others, they make a commission of the sale which encourages them to do crazy things like swap out OEM stock offerings for similar non stock items. SST pure on your putter crazy margin stacked build fees. Even crazy expensive upcharges on wood shafts might carry maybe 50 points but they employee cheap labor to build which in turn leads to bad builds which then I turn promotes spending more money to get it fixed....

o snap wait.... guess places like CC and others are robbing people blindly but the comment on the OEM stuff is true... only things that have any margin to cover overhead is truly custom builds... even putters which cost around $60-$80 to make are sold now no longer a MSRP or MAP pricing but a UMRP pricing which means the OEM sets the price to be sold at in the store... not everyone needs or wants some oban ct115 shafts (huge problem with them) when the modus 120 will do in the stock srixon set... dang forgot to mention significant swing changes... o yah personal $.02 if a company tells you not to read their google Reviews but their website reviews run and run fast...

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, Buffly said:

This is fascinating that you bring this up - stock offerings and the average imaginary golfer. I have been using the shaft profiles offered with a given head to self fit myself into the appropriate head. Let me explain

I noticed that certain game improvement heads only came in lighter, high launching shafts with lighter swing weights in a couple, few manufacturers. When I looked at the more player's type clubs they had shafts that were a bit heavier, stiffer, and different launch characteristics. I deducted that the average player playing that type of club was more skilled, had a higher swing speed, and would benefit from those attributes. 

I would go so far as to say some club makers are fitting the average buyer in that category based on the designs 

I could be way off. What do you think?

Yes GI type clubs tend to come with lighter shafts. They are designed to get the ball in the air and for forgiveness on off center hits. Slower swing speed players are usually the ones who need this help so the lighter weights will aid in generating speed. That’s not to say lighter weights are only for slow swing. I have two golfing buddies playing 105g shafts in their players distance and cb type irons and neither are what would be considered slow swings.

 

[Manimal26]

7 hours ago, Buffly said:

This is fascinating that you bring this up - stock offerings and the average imaginary golfer. I have been using the shaft profiles offered with a given head to self fit myself into the appropriate head. Let me explain

I noticed that certain game improvement heads only came in lighter, high launching shafts with lighter swing weights in a couple, few manufacturers. When I looked at the more player's type clubs they had shafts that were a bit heavier, stiffer, and different launch characteristics. I deducted that the average player playing that type of club was more skilled, had a higher swing speed, and would benefit from those attributes. 

I would go so far as to say some club makers are fitting the average buyer in that category based on the designs 

I could be way off. What do you think?

Stock offerings are built for curb appeal. That’s why people end up talking about what the bottom of a driver looks like because it’s the first thing you see... it’s why all murdered out edition clubs come out... not just in golf people always stretch for something that is above of them which is natural to want better things. Golf however unlike anything else is the only static based sport besides bowling I think. Meaning the ball is not moving until you make it move. All other sports are dynamically based in the sense you are trying to predict and react not think things through. All this is important because outside of hockey most equipment in other sports serve the same function and performance level. Golf is not the case because not everyone can perform a static task with the same ability. You need different sets of tools to accomplish the task. While others use blades irons one may need some Cleveland turbo launchers to do the same thing. 

[aerospace_ray]

My response based off how I perceive your questions/post: Based on personal 40+ year experience the only OEM brand that I would buy off the rack/stock is PING. Pick a decade back to the 70's and I could game/hit every iron in the set from a PING set. What they called standard, regular flex, standard size grip I could easily make center strikes and get the ball in the air reasonably straight. I have never had a playing partner complain about a stock PING (off the rack) other than they hit a little high in the wind (mainly 70's-mid 90's / balata balls). I gamed either the Black dot or Red dot. Was not fit to either back in the day, just purchased one or two sets of each. 

I have played many brands over the years. Currently game multiple brands including PING clubs. The Pings that I currently do play are based off fitting variables and tailored to my game/ability. I have been building/fitting for several decades so I am not in the group that buys off the rack blindly..... I may buy off the rack and then adjust according to my needs (re-shaft/bend lie angle, etc). Realize that is not what you are looking for with your original question/post but wanted to share. 

If you asked me for another choice besides PING, I would lean close to Callaway Big Bertha (woods to irons). Started with early 90'S models through todays offerings. Those were the next closest that I could/would invest in without worrying about quality or clubs not fitting me throughout the entire set. The discriminator for me with Callaway vs the Ping is with the long irons both back in the 90's and today's offerings. Due to my ability and/or swing speed (slow range) I battled consistency getting the long irons in the air combined with inconsistent carry distances vs the Pings. Probably had to do with stronger lofts and longer club length from the Callaway's. The Callaway woods and mid irons down were near spot on regarding being able to hit, hit straight and get up in the air like I needed in stock offerings. Absolutely loved the War Bird FW's as they performed very consistent from any turf condition I faced. Again off the rack club, no adjustments. 

[NC Golfer]

For those that recommend fittings. How many strokes do you save or is it a small amount and they just feel better. Years ago, I saw Vijay Singh choke down on his clubs and I went with + one inch and thought I'd choke down.  I play these at a full length and love them. Do I play better? Probably not, they just feel great. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by NC Golfer

[Buffly]

@aerospace_ray I'm glad you had a chance to chime in. I have always respected your thoughts and comments. 

You and another person both responded with Ping which is not a surprise to me at all. I am in the same camp that Ping has done a great job at making this game we love a bit more enjoyable. I have waited until a few have responded before I brought my feelings on the subject. 

In my experience, as little as it has been compared to seasoned veterans, is that Ping has taken many variables into account that do make their clubs stand out as fitting the masses. 

The only issue is that ignorant people who don't understand the color dot system can create problems for themselves thinking that the colors don't mean anything. 

I have come to respect Ping for their commitment to improvement without apology. The example of the G400 LST not being replaced right away because the new model wasn't better makes the point. 

There is a Ping driver in my future - probably by summer.