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Project X LZ vs KBS tour


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I have a chance to get a MP20 HMB 3I but it comes with a project X LZ 6.0 shaft. I currently game KBS tour stiff. Would that be too much to adjust to to use the HMB as a UI/DI with that shaft? Of course then I would ditch my 3H and PXG DI if it works out. Has anyone hit both?

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ with Tensei Orange Pro S (1" tipped) at 44.5"

2H: :callaway-small: Super Hybrid with Tensei Orange Pro Hyb 80 Stiff 

3H: :Sub70: 939X UST proforce V2 black F3 hybrid soft stepped XStiff UPRT setting 

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 1/4" long Unofficial Review

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)  (Backup 54*,60*: :ping-small:  S Tour KBS Tour Stiff 3* up)

Putter: :taylormade-small: Corza Ghost 35" ( Benched :odyssey-small: Toulon Las Vegas Stroke Lab  34") Soon to be testing TAIII Impact #2 Putter

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

:Arccos:

 

 

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They are not poles apart in terms of weight and flex, but depending on how you swing and load the shaft the results may be slightly different in launch and spin. The LZ has a stiffer tip section and slightly stiffer butt - the mid sections are very similar. The LZ would give a tad lower launch and spin, but as stated it would depend on how you load and release the shaft.

Not sure if I would personally ditch the 3H in favour of the HMB though - the hybrid would probably offer greater forgiveness, probably greater distance and more versatility.

The age old advice is try before you buy.

Edited by jaskanski
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I guess I should just reshaft my pxg with KBS tour then and see how that goes. $34 cheaper than $115

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ with Tensei Orange Pro S (1" tipped) at 44.5"

2H: :callaway-small: Super Hybrid with Tensei Orange Pro Hyb 80 Stiff 

3H: :Sub70: 939X UST proforce V2 black F3 hybrid soft stepped XStiff UPRT setting 

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 1/4" long Unofficial Review

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)  (Backup 54*,60*: :ping-small:  S Tour KBS Tour Stiff 3* up)

Putter: :taylormade-small: Corza Ghost 35" ( Benched :odyssey-small: Toulon Las Vegas Stroke Lab  34") Soon to be testing TAIII Impact #2 Putter

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

:Arccos:

 

 

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519166680_ScreenShot2020-09-14at3_30_43PM.png.5eb29672d46ce6dab56c0be6eda4531e.png.2dcdef116b360ab32c217a7d5228a027.png

Like I said - it depends on how you load the shaft. The KBS Tour EI curve in red compared to the PX LZ in blue. (KBS Tour V in brown for comparison).

It also depends on how Titleist are measuring their shafts - the KBS Tour is famously incrementally stiffer along it's length as the EI curve demonstrates quite nicely with a rather flat linear style curve. If you measure from mid point to the tip, it will be stiffer overall as Titleist suggest. The PX LZ is much stiffer initially in the tip but then dips before flattening out in the middle - it may well be measured at a lower cpm because of this contrast from tip to mid. Again, the same story plays out in the mid to butt measurement as it is stiffer it an increase towards the butt - however again the contrast could be measured as lower in cpm. Think of two stiff sections connected by a more flexible middle (like the Nunchuck). The KBS Tour on the other hand has a more lateral flex increase and flatter EI curve, meaning the difference in measured tip to mid, and mid to butt sections appear to measure stiffer in cpm. Overall butt frequency will measure as stiffer too.

But it how the shaft profile plays that makes the difference. Smooth swingers with a smooth transition, but with an early release will see lower flight and spin than someone with a later release with the PX LZ. Harder transitions will be more thankful of the butt and tip stiffness of PX LZ in terms of launch and spin control for the same release. It all depends on the load and release how the shaft reacts. 

Titleists graphic probably covers how average joe would expect to see it play on paper, but even they qualify it with a caveat to get fitted. You can't take everything on paper as face value if you haven't tried it for yourself. The specs are really too close to call it one way or another on overall performance. This is a classic example of this.

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11 hours ago, jaskanski said:

519166680_ScreenShot2020-09-14at3_30_43PM.png.5eb29672d46ce6dab56c0be6eda4531e.png.2dcdef116b360ab32c217a7d5228a027.png

Like I said - it depends on how you load the shaft. The KBS Tour EI curve in red compared to the PX LZ in blue. (KBS Tour V in brown for comparison).

It also depends on how Titleist are measuring their shafts - the KBS Tour is famously incrementally stiffer along it's length as the EI curve demonstrates quite nicely with a rather flat linear style curve. If you measure from mid point to the tip, it will be stiffer overall as Titleist suggest. The PX LZ is much stiffer initially in the tip but then dips before flattening out in the middle - it may well be measured at a lower cpm because of this contrast from tip to mid. Again, the same story plays out in the mid to butt measurement as it is stiffer it an increase towards the butt - however again the contrast could be measured as lower in cpm. Think of two stiff sections connected by a more flexible middle (like the Nunchuck). The KBS Tour on the other hand has a more lateral flex increase and flatter EI curve, meaning the difference in measured tip to mid, and mid to butt sections appear to measure stiffer in cpm. Overall butt frequency will measure as stiffer too.

But it how the shaft profile plays that makes the difference. Smooth swingers with a smooth transition, but with an early release will see lower flight and spin than someone with a later release with the PX LZ. Harder transitions will be more thankful of the butt and tip stiffness of PX LZ in terms of launch and spin control for the same release. It all depends on the load and release how the shaft reacts. 

Titleists graphic probably covers how average joe would expect to see it play on paper, but even they qualify it with a caveat to get fitted. You can't take everything on paper as face value if you haven't tried it for yourself. The specs are really too close to call it one way or another on overall performance. This is a classic example of this.

This is great color, thanks for sharing. I don’t know that anything will kick my $ tapers out of the bag any time soon but it’s always cool to learn about comparisons across brands/lines that go deeper than said brands’ 2 sentence descriptions. 

Driver:  :titelist-small: TSi 3 10* w/ Graphite Design AD IZ 7X 

Fairway: :titelist-small: TSi 2 15* w/ Graphite Design AD IX 7X

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSi2* 17* w/ Atmos Blue 85x  

Utility: :ping-small: i500 3i (19*) w/ MMT 125tx

Irons: :cobra-small: King Forged CB w/ KBS $ Taper 130

Wedges:  :vokey-small: SM7 54 S, 58 M w/ Modus 125

Putter:  :cameron-small:  California Hollywood 34" Circle H

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I got fitted for both during an iron fitting. Ended up with the KBS S-taper because the combo with the mizuno HM heads produced better results with my swing. Could have gone with the LZ's and not much issue though.

Charleston, SC

HDCP 12.0

  • Driver: :taylormade-small:  M6 9* with 65g Stiff Mitsubishi Tensei Red shaft
  • 3 wood: :taylormade-small:  M4 with 60g Atmos red stiff shaft
  • 4-gw irons:  :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal w/ X-stiff KBS 130gr shafts (soft stepped)
  • Wedges: 52, 56, 60 :titelist-small: SM5 & SM6
  • Putter: 34" :odyssey-small: 2-ball original with superstroke grip
  • Tracked By: :Arccos:

MGS Tester '20 - :ping-small: G710 Iron Review

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Thanks everyone. Interesting discussion. I didn’t go with the HMB. I will say I love my KBS. It was between that and Nippon modus3 120s during my fitting. Better feel with nippon, better results with KBS. Never tried the LZ but have HZRDUS yellow in my 3w. 

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ with Tensei Orange Pro S (1" tipped) at 44.5"

2H: :callaway-small: Super Hybrid with Tensei Orange Pro Hyb 80 Stiff 

3H: :Sub70: 939X UST proforce V2 black F3 hybrid soft stepped XStiff UPRT setting 

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 1/4" long Unofficial Review

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)  (Backup 54*,60*: :ping-small:  S Tour KBS Tour Stiff 3* up)

Putter: :taylormade-small: Corza Ghost 35" ( Benched :odyssey-small: Toulon Las Vegas Stroke Lab  34") Soon to be testing TAIII Impact #2 Putter

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

:Arccos:

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just tried the LZ in a Ping i500 head and it was so smooth... unfortunately Sub 70's irons don't compute with them.  The KBS tour 120 was second on the performance list for me.  I'm guessing that is the closest comp to the LZ's.  I currently have the Tour 105's but they spin too much and launch too high for me. 

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:cobra-small:  Speedzone White 10.5*

:callaway-small:Mavrik 4W - 16.5*

:titelist-small: 818 H1 19* Hybrid 😍

:Sub70: 939X 22* Hybrid

:Sub70: 699 Pro Black 5-AW

:cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 54* and 58*

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Black on Black on Black

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods 😉

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For me, the KBS Tour was lower launching than the PX LZ.  The linear feel is a correct description of the Tour.  The PX LZ definitely has a more active midsection and required a smoother transition.

  • TaylorMade SIM2 9.7* - Graphite Design Tour AD-HD 7 TX
  • TaylorMade M6 15.9* - PX HZRDUS Green 80 6.5 
  • Srixon Z565 3i - PX 6.5
  • Srixon Z745 4-P - PX LZ 7.0
  • Vokey SM7 50F / 55M / 59K - DG TI S400
  • Scotty Cameron X7 Phantom 34”
  • Titleist -Pro V1X
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